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woman refused abortion - Mod Note in first post.

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    #122
    Cleveland Hot Pocket
    Registered Users Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭Cleveland Hot Pocket


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    It is, if you're going to continue with the stupidity of claiming we're an uncivilised country.

    Please refer to my post regarding the lack of human rights in this country.
    I'm not bothered to type it again.


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    #123
    Cleveland Hot Pocket
    Registered Users Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭Cleveland Hot Pocket


    PeteFalk78 wrote: »
    I know in my situation it has nothing to do with religion......I'm about as atheist/agnostic as you get. But at baby of 6 months is too old for an abortion. It has a very good chance of living and I think when a foetus has a change of living independently then it crosses the line to murder.

    A baby of 6 months you obviously cannot abort.
    It is already alive.

    A fetus of 6 months is not the same discussion though.


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    #124
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    What would the Pope have to say about all this, eh?! :pac:


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    #125
    Cleveland Hot Pocket
    Registered Users Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭Cleveland Hot Pocket


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Why do you think shes having it thrust on her? She like any mother doesn't even have to look st the baby. She can leave the hospital and not look back.Whst are you talking about?

    They made her give birth to a child that she didnt want?
    What the hell are you not seeing where that event was thrust upon her against her will ??
    :rolleyes:


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    #126
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Matt_Trakker wrote: »
    Why didn't she just got to England like most others who want an abortion?

    She was in her second trimester so its not clear that she could have had a legal abortion in the UK.


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    #127
    fro9etb8j5qsl2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭fro9etb8j5qsl2


    Every time this argument comes up, I am shocked at the number of women who are so steadfast in their willingness to deprive their fellow women of their human rights over a foetus. Yes, a foetus. And yes, I do have a name for the foetus that is currently growing inside me because it was conceived in love with the intention of giving it every chance in life. Unfortunately, not every woman who conceives is in the same position as me and as a woman who understands that carrying a child to term and giving birth is a huge thing and has many possible consequences and implications, I accept that other women may not feel able to deal with this.

    Why does it always seem to be the anti abortion side who start these threads and the same militant people come out of he woodwork every time even though the argument is never won and there is never going to be a compromise between both sides? These threads are pointless and only serve the purpose of picking the same fight over and over.... Why bother :confused:


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    #128
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »
    No, not everyone who doesn't agree with me.
    The court of human rights have stated that the Irish position on abortion is denying mothers of their rights to choose. This clearly shows that we currently are having a backwards rule enforced upon us. If I were a woman, I dont think I could go through with having an abortion. I don't believe however that my decision should entitle me to tell another person what to do!
    What did you mean by "they" when you said they stop caring once a kid is born.
    Clearly your last paragraph is sensationalism to levels normally found in pro life posters - so I will do like I do for those idiotic groups and disregard.
    Well if someone is going to be so facetious about "spit or swallow" hur hur hur then why not the other direction? Because it doesn't suit you?

    These threads are ****ing boring. The "pro-choicers" have a script and anyone who deviates from it is a woman-hating, half-witted, religious/conservative militant nutjob.


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    #129
    Cleveland Hot Pocket
    Registered Users Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭Cleveland Hot Pocket


    catallus wrote: »
    What would the Pope have to say about all this, eh?! :pac:

    That's the level of intelligence that you end up dealing with in this type of discussion though.


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    #130
    miss_shadow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭miss_shadow


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Why do you think shes having it thrust on her? She like any mother doesn't even have to look st the baby. She can leave the hospital and not look back.Whst are you talking about?

    Because now there's a child out there. who, if survives after this bizarre birth, will grow up w


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    #131
    leeroybrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭leeroybrown


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Why do you think shes having it thrust on her? She like any mother doesn't even have to look st the baby. She can leave the hospital and not look back.Whst are you talking about?
    Not look back? She'll spend the 4-8 weeks recovering from unwanted surgery that currently renders her unable to lift anything heavier than a few kilos and be left with permanent external scarring and a damaged uterine wall. None of this would have been the case if the baby had been aborted as she requested. Then she'll have the emotional scarring that being forced to go through all that by pro-lifers like you.


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    #132
    takamichinoku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭takamichinoku


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    I'm probably more pro life than pro choice but, abortion should be available freely (without cost to the state I don't agree with abortions for free).
    The cost part gives it some reservations but if you think it should be available then you're pro-choice. Within that, you can obviously choose to not have one yourself, of course.


    RE: the baby/foetus stuff. I think some people get a bit too caught up on each side, it's semantics really. I can totally see why both sides want to push their word but it's never been something I've really been able to engage in at all.


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    #133
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »
    They made her give birth to a child that she didnt want?
    What the hell are you not seeing where that event was thrust upon her against her will ??
    :rolleyes:
    Is there any jurisdiction on the planet that will provide abortion on demand at any stage of pregnancy?


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    #134
    Cleveland Hot Pocket
    Registered Users Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭Cleveland Hot Pocket


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What did you mean by "they" when you said they stop caring once a kid is born.


    Well if someone is going to be so facetious about "spit or swallow" hur hur hur then why not the other direction? Because it doesn't suit you?

    These threads are ****ing boring. The "pro-choicers" have a script and anyone who deviates from it is a woman-hating, half-witted, religious/conservative militant nutjob.

    If it's so boring then fcuk off out of it and go adopt some unwanted children that your ilk have forced into surviving.

    I meant "they" as in pro life groups.
    I wasn't being facetious. I don't see where pro life people draw the line.


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    #135
    Cleveland Hot Pocket
    Registered Users Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭Cleveland Hot Pocket


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Is there any jurisdiction on the planet that will provide abortion on demand at any stage of pregnancy?

    Where did I say any stage of the pregnancy?
    My own personal viewpoint is 24 weeks and below.


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    #136
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    catallus wrote: »
    What would the Pope have to say about all this, eh?! :pac:

    ...or Louis Van Gall or Barack Obama or Kristy the Clown? Whats your point?


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    #137
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    I thought it was refused as the baby was capable of surviving outside the womb. A c section was given and the child taken into care.

    The woman is no longer pregnant, the child gets a chance at life.

    If that's the case, I think the right calls were made.


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    #138
    Pumpkinseeds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    You should research the waiting list to adopt in Ireland.

    Is there research to show how many of those on the waiting list are anti-abortion?, that's what I'm talking about, not the adoption waiting list.


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    #139
    miss_shadow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭miss_shadow


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Why do you think shes having it thrust on her? She like any mother doesn't even have to look st the baby. She can leave the hospital and not look back.Whst are you talking about?

    Because now there's a child out there. who, if survives after this bizarre birth, will grow up wondering who their mother is. There will always be an attachment for the mother, she'll always be thinking about a child she couldn't/didn't raise at this moment in time. Maybe that's why she chose abortion. Maybe she wouldn't be able to deal with the torment of knowing there's a child of hers growing up without her!


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    #140
    PeteFalk78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 762 ✭✭✭PeteFalk78


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    I thought it was refused as the baby was capable of surviving outside the womb. A c section was given and the child taken into care.

    The woman is no longer pregnant, the child gets a chance at life.

    If that's the case, I think the right calls were made.
    +1. The only counterargument is the procedure of the CS itself making it sound as barbaric as possible. Ignoring the fact that thousands are carried out every year in Ireland.


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    #141
    Cleveland Hot Pocket
    Registered Users Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭Cleveland Hot Pocket


    Kaiden Dead Penlight wrote: »
    Every time this argument comes up, I am shocked at the number of women who are so steadfast in their willingness to deprive their fellow women of their human rights over a foetus. Yes, a foetus. And yes, I do have a name for the foetus that is currently growing inside me because it was conceived in love with the intention of giving it every chance in life. Unfortunately, not every woman who conceives is in the same position as me and as a woman who understands that carrying a child to term and giving birth is a huge thing and has many possible consequences and implications, I accept that other women may not feel able to deal with this.

    Why does it always seem to be the anti abortion side who start these threads and the same militant people come out of he woodwork every time even though the argument is never won and there is never going to be a compromise between both sides? These threads are pointless and only serve the purpose of picking the same fight over and over.... Why bother :confused:
    Unfortunately this is what is left until the last generation of militant catholic and pro life groups die out. I think this will take a further few years anyway - at which point a referendum would be passed.


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    #142
    takamichinoku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭takamichinoku


    leeroybrown wrote: »
    Not look back? She'll spend the 4-8 weeks recovering from unwanted surgery that currently renders her unable to lift anything heavier than a few kilos and be left with permanent external scarring and a damaged uterine wall. None of this would have been the case if the baby had been aborted as she requested. Then she'll have the emotional scarring that being forced to go through all that by pro-lifers like you.
    and she'll always be aware that there's a kid she didn't want to the point of possibly being suicidal, who she went to court to get rid of, may have been willing to take the matter into her own hands walking around this world...

    That kind of constant unresolved emotional baggage sounds absolutely huge and I'm filled with sympathy for the woman. Good thing they're so certain she isn't going to kill herself, cos that sounds like the kind of thing that could tip someone over.


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    #143
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Whats your point?

    I'm glad you asked.

    The promotion of abortion of any kind is worshipping at the altar of the cult of Death.

    A bit of reading and education wouldn't go astray, I think.

    After accepting these things then the argument all comes down to a question of degree.


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    #144
    leeroybrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭leeroybrown


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    I thought it was refused as the baby was capable of surviving outside the womb. A c section was given and the child taken into care.
    And how long do you thing all the legal/ethical messing around in the background took? In any other civilised country the baby would likely have been aborted at the woman's request long before it came to this eventuality.


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    #145
    Cleveland Hot Pocket
    Registered Users Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭Cleveland Hot Pocket


    Selips wrote: »
    Are you able to deduce morals yourself or do you need to be told by the cout of human rights what to think?

    :rolleyes:
    I decide my own morality thank you.
    My position was enforced by the court of human rights' ruling.

    Unlike the pro life groups which by and large rely on a 1500 year old book.


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    #146
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »
    Where did I say any stage of the pregnancy?
    My own personal viewpoint is 24 weeks and below.
    Its not clear exactly how far advanced this woman was. She was in her second trimester, so she may have been past 24 weeks. - In which case, you would agree with the decision to refuse the abortion, right?


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    #147
    leeroybrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭leeroybrown


    What really saddens me is that we're one of the only countries in the world where this would turn into a major news story rather than a simple medical procedure that gives the woman what she wants and has a right to. The sooner it changes the better.


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    #148
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »
    If it's so boring then fcuk off out of it and go adopt some unwanted children that your ilk have forced into surviving.
    My ilk? LOL. Really showing your ignorance buddy.
    I meant "they" as in pro life groups.
    Then you went off on one about a court ruling. What's that got to do with "my ilk"?
    I wasn't being facetious. I don't see where pro life people draw the line.
    So if you can't see a line including a woman flushing period fluids down the toilet and don't think it's ridiculous then why do you not see why "my ilk" wonder where the line is for when "foetus" becomes "baby"?


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    #149
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    I thought it was refused as the baby was capable of surviving outside the womb. A c section was given and the child taken into care.

    The woman is no longer pregnant, the child gets a chance at life.

    If that's the case, I think the right calls were made.

    No. It was refused as she was deemed not suicidal. Of course the baby would have been aborted if she'd been genuinely suicidal. Theres no limit.


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    #150
    PeteFalk78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 762 ✭✭✭PeteFalk78


    Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »
    Unlike the pro life groups which by and large rely on a 1500 year old book.
    Wrong!!!!


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    #151
    leeroybrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭leeroybrown


    PeteFalk78 wrote: »
    Wrong!!!!
    Are you more of an Old Testament type?


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