woman refused abortion - Mod Note in first post.

In Lonesome Dove

Ralphdejones wrote: »

Not very humane for the life of the child though, who also did nothing wrong.

Do you know what an abortion pill is and what it does? I must admit I didn't myself until I googled it right there and it's very simple. Woman finds herself unexpectedly pregnant and decides in the early days that she won't be able to cope and this isn't for her. She chats to her doctor. She is given two pills. One to swallow and one to insert vaginally. Within four hours the fertilised egg or the embryo is expelled and it comes out as a heavy period. There's no dead child dropping into women's knickers after taking the pill.

Morag

The abortion pills are a series of pills taken over 24 hours, they start to work with in 4 hours of taking the first ones.
They cause a medical miscarriage the side effects are painful cramps, and possible vomiting and Diarrhea.
The woman will miscarry over the 24 hours, which will be like a very heavy period.

It's no walk in the park but it's better then surgical abortion, and safer then surgical abortion, or giving birth or a c section.
The abortion pills are on the World Health Orgs list of essential medicine.
They are made here in Ireland by Pfizer, are used for other medical conditions but using them or prescribing them to end a pregnancy is illegal.

eviltwin

Morag wrote: »

The abortion pills are a series of pills taken over 24 hours, they start to work with in 4 hours of taking the first ones.
They cause a medical miscarriage the side effects are painful cramps, and possible vomiting and Diarrhea.
The woman will miscarry over the 24 hours, which will be like a very heavy period.

It's no walk in the park but it's better then surgical abortion, and safer then surgical abortion, or giving birth or a c section.
The abortion pills are on the World Health Orgs list of essential medicine.
They are made here in Ireland by Pfizer, are used for other medical conditions but using them or prescribing them to end a pregnancy is illegal.

I didn't realise they were manufacturered here, not surprised those, we're happy to facilitate abortion for everyone but our own citizens.

Nodin

This one hurt my brain

"very sad case about the lady looking for an abortion, but this seems to again show how crazily liberal our immigration system is again"
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/08/18/cox-by-name/

lazygal

Nodin wrote: »

This one hurt my brain

"very sad case about the lady looking for an abortion, but this seems to again show how crazily liberal our immigration system is again"
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/08/18/cox-by-name/

Like that troublemaker Praveen Hallapanavar.

takamichinoku

TheGoldenAges wrote: »

I find these threads rather pointless as at the moment in the key voting demographics the population tend to be more conservative leaning due to the churches teachings infused with them as they were growing up meaning a referendum on abortion is unlikely to pass. Give it 10/20 years and the more liberal leaning younger demographic would have transitioned to another demographic with a larger voting influence. Happened with divorce, will happen with gay marriage next year (if the supposed referendum goes ahead), will happen for abortion and hell even cannabis soon enough.

I can see it taking ten years myself unfortunately, but 20 seems a big stretch. If we're able to move from homosexuality being illegal to same sex marriage being (hopefully) legalised in 20 years, I'd like to think... I dunno how to end this sentence, a less callous way of saying "I hope a load of old people are dead or not able to vote on matters that have no bearing on them", cos that's basically it

Dunno about threads like this doing anything, but a lot more talking about it might help people become somewhat educated on the matter.
It should be pretty surprising how uneducated a lot of people seem to be on the matter; how many people don't seem to be aware of medicinal abortion, or just how effective some of the Youth Defence type misinformation can be (a very common one being the use of very advanced foetuses beside statistics regarding much earlier stages in the pregnancy, a lot of people will respond very differently if they hear it's a about the size of a lentil and quite unbabylike).
...but having been in a school that only 12 years was showing 12-13 year olds extremely inaccurate propaganda videos and, to the best of my knowledge, no other incident where abortion was attempted to be discussed directly without me searching for it, it seems safe to assume a lot of that class are only aware of the "information" from that video.

DeadHand

Nodin wrote: »

This one hurt my brain

"very sad case about the lady looking for an abortion, but this seems to again show how crazily liberal our immigration system is again"
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/08/18/cox-by-name/

That tweet again was so poorly written I had to read it again

Delirium

Nodin wrote: »

This one hurt my brain

"very sad case about the lady looking for an abortion, but this seems to again show how crazily liberal our immigration system is again"
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/08/18/cox-by-name/

Damn immigants!! Coming here, not getting abortions!!

DeadHand

SW wrote: »

Damn immigants!! Coming here, not getting abortions!!

THEY DIDN'T TAKE OUR ABORTIONS!!!

Or something...

padd b1975

green_screen wrote: »

Mad isn't it, how the two posters that are the most prolific in damning people who support abortion, are men, who will never have to go through pregnancy.

They may become parents though.

Penny Tration

padd b1975 wrote: »

They may become parents though.

There's a massive difference between inseminating somebody and carrying a foetus for 9 months and enduring childbirth. men can walk away from that, women can't.

padd b1975

green_screen wrote: »

There's a massive difference between inseminating somebody and carrying a foetus for 9 months and enduring childbirth. men can walk away from that, women can't.

Decent men don't, they are worth a mention in this debate I feel.

brooke 2

Nodin wrote: »

The allegation is that she presented at 8 weeks and - for reasons unknown - was made wait 16 weeks until the decision was made.
Full article here
https://twitter.com/Cwhyte1928/media

Wasn't that always the possible danger with the law on abortion?
Anyone could have seen this problem coming down the line.

eviltwin

padd b1975 wrote: »

Decent men don't, they are worth a mention in this debate I feel.

this is a rape case, decent men don't rape

Phoebas

brooke 2 wrote: »

Wasn't that always the possible danger with the law on abortion?
Anyone could have seen this problem coming down the line.

People generally prefer to get all outraged after the event.

There are a good few people on this thread who are genuinely shocked that a rape victim was denied an abortion. They must have been living under a rock for the last 30 years.

The furore over this will die down in a few weeks and people will go about their lives until the next case. When election time come around again the abortion issue will rank - as usual - towards the bottom of voter concerns.

Fr_Dougal

This woman should have been allowed have an abortion, the poor thing.

padd b1975

eviltwin wrote: »

this is a rape case, decent men don't rape

Alleged rape...

brooke 2

lazygal wrote: »

And you've got people like Peter Mathews who thinks its all grand because we're all going to die anyway.

I'll never understand how Peter Mathews got a free pass from the press after
making that shocking statement on the Vincent Browne Show!!

B0jangles

padd b1975 wrote: »

Alleged rape...

So you're calling her a liar now?

jam_mac_jam

padd b1975 wrote: »

Alleged rape...

It doesn't matter in law if she was raped or not. The issue in law is if she was suicidal or not. So your sly comment is irrelevant.

bumper234

padd b1975 wrote: »

They may become parents though.

Well i pray their daughters never get impregnated through rape.

Corkfeen

padd b1975 wrote: »

Alleged rape...

You're implying that she may be lying again. You denied it earlier but are definitely doing it. She should have gotten the abortion she requested and should not have been forced into a c-section.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91766154&postcount=717

ProfessorPlum

Ralphdejones wrote: »

All human beings should have an equal right to life, not superior rights to life, where one life, either the mother or the childs, "trumps" the other life as you put it.
Both the mother and the child are alive today. That's as balanced as you are going to get.

Ralphdejones wrote: »

A dead child is pretty absolutist. Both of them are alive today. That's as balanced as it can be.

I honestly don't think your emotional rants are worth replying to and I am a bit dismayed that what was a fairly reasoned discussion on important points in this thread has descended into an 'I've got the moral high ground' shouting match. However, the results of this case are far from ideal, and I doubt either party, the mother or the child will feel that their individual rights have been in any way balanced.
On the one hand you have a vulnerable young adult who has had to endure the most horrific traumas, first at the hands of her rapist, then being torn away from her own country and her support network of friends and family to a country where she likely knows few if any people and is unable to communicate freely. Then she finds herself unable to safely end her pregnancy at an early stage, and has to face the gauntlet of our very complex legal system, with multiple examinations by various medical practitioners, all at the same time as coping with the stresses of pregnancy. Bizzarely then, surely to her at least, she finds that she is compelled to have a caesarian section, which granted see acceded to having been 'forceably hydrated'. I doubt she will be a well woman for some time yet, if ever.

On the other hand, we have an infant, born prematurely at 24/25 weeks,who is undoubtably struggling for life as we speak. He will likely have lifelong and serious medical issues, if he even survives. He will likely not be raised by his mother and will not have a loving family support network. He may be lucky enough to be adopted, but only if the legal issues surrounding his birth can be addressed - his citizenship and right to reside in this country, and his mother relinquishing parental rights. Given that he may well have serious medical issues, it's not at all guaranteed that even if these issues are addressed he would be adopted. It is not unlikely that he will remain in state care until he is 18 or indeed for the rest of his life if he is incapable of independand living.

If that is considered an acceptable outcome, I don't know what else to say.

brooke 2

Ralphdejones wrote: »

Why should someone who has done nothing wrong feel shame and disgust ?

Why would killing the child be a cure for shame and disgust ?

To be blunt:

Having a man force himself into her body and spill his load into her
would be sufficient for any woman to 'feel shame and disgust'!!

Use your imagination, man!!!

Nodin

brooke 2 wrote: »

Wasn't that always the possible danger with the law on abortion?
Anyone could have seen this problem coming down the line.

Yep, Young vulnerable women in care were specifically mentioned, as they can't bypass the system and feck off to Britain.

However here, the additional factor is that she indicated distress at 8 weeks to the "authorities", but it took 16 weeks for her to see a GP. Now if a young woman is distressed and asking to 'get rid' of her baby, why does it take 16 weeks for somebody to send her to a GP, irregardless of whether one thinks that will end in abortion, psychiatric care, counselling or whatever.

Nodin

brooke 2 wrote: »

I'll never understand how Peter Mathews got a free pass from the press after
making that shocking statement on the Vincent Browne Show!!

It was a bonus of the free pass he got for waving rosary beads at Enda Kenny.

eviltwin

padd b1975 wrote: »

Alleged rape...

low even for you. She was already pregnant when she got here according to todayfm so the father wasn't even here to investigate. She went on hunger strike, imagine how desperate she must have been, even in cases of consentual sex no decent man I know would force a woman to remain pregnant when she had tried to take her own life.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

eviltwin

Phoenix wrote: »

In cases of rape are women in Ireland not given the right to have a termination?i understand that its still illegal but were there not exceptions made after the x case?

no X was about the right to travel for abortion

Nodin

Phoenix wrote: »

In cases of rape are women in Ireland not given the right to have a termination?i understand that its still illegal but were there not exceptions made after the x case?

No. Rape is not grounds for abortion, nor is the child being dead, having no brain or another fatal foetal abnormality. Nor is a risk to the health of the mother.