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woman refused abortion - Mod Note in first post.

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    #152
    Cleveland Hot Pocket
    Registered Users Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭Cleveland Hot Pocket


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Its not clear exactly how far advanced this woman was. She was in her second trimester, so she may have been past 24 weeks. - In which case, you would agree with the decision to refuse the abortion, right?

    I said I wouldn't agree with it. Doesn't mean I would tell someone else what to do with their body though. That's the difference.


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    #153
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    No. It was refused as she was deemed not suicidal. Of course the baby would have been aborted if she'd been genuinely suicidal. Theres no limit.

    Yet if she had been declared suicidal the same people saying that this case is a disgrace would've used the psychiatric assessments as evidence.


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    #154
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    catallus wrote: »
    I'm glad you asked.

    The promotion of abortion of any kind is worshipping at the altar of the cult of Death.

    A bit of reading and education wouldn't go astray, I think.

    After accepting these things then the argument all comes down to a question of degree.

    ?


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    #155
    PeteFalk78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 762 ✭✭✭PeteFalk78


    leeroybrown wrote: »
    Are you more of an Old Testament type?

    I know which type you are ;)


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    #156
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »
    I said I wouldn't agree with it. Doesn't mean I would tell someone else what to do with their body though. That's the difference.
    Are you in favour of allowing legal abortion on demand up to full term then (even if you don't personally agree with it)?


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    #157
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    leeroybrown wrote: »
    And how long do you thing all the legal/ethical messing around in the background took? In any other civilised country the baby would likely have been aborted at the woman's request long before it came to this eventuality.

    I don't know the details, only what I heard on the radio. I'm guessing you don't either.


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    #158
    Cleveland Hot Pocket
    Registered Users Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭Cleveland Hot Pocket


    Deleted User wrote: »
    My ilk? LOL. Really showing your ignorance buddy.


    Then you went off on one about a court ruling. What's that got to do with "my ilk"?


    So if you can't see a line including a woman flushing period fluids down the toilet and don't think it's ridiculous then why do you not see why "my ilk" wonder where the line is for when "foetus" becomes "baby"?

    Well there's a clear medical definition for foetus and for baby.
    Potential for life is equally present in semen and in a foetus (albeit in a different state)
    PeteFalk78 wrote: »
    Wrong!!!!

    Correct actually.
    Even if it doesn't apply to you specifically, I said by and large. IE the majority of the time. Look next time at all the groups that are responsible for the pro life posters/


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    #159
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Wait what term was it when she wanted the abortion?


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    #160
    leeroybrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭leeroybrown


    Kaiden Dead Penlight wrote: »
    Why does it always seem to be the anti abortion side who start these threads and the same militant people come out of he woodwork every time even though the argument is never won and there is never going to be a compromise between both sides? These threads are pointless and only serve the purpose of picking the same fight over and over.... Why bother :confused:
    Honestly... after the abusers from the catholic church, extreme pro-lifers are my next most despised group of people in the state. They can't be allowed to think they can push their horrible line on Irish women without real people pushing back.


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    #161
    takamichinoku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭takamichinoku


    Quite a lot of pro-life groups rely on misinformation far more than they do on the bible, to fair.


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    #162
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Wait what term was it when she wanted the abortion?

    She was in her second trimester when she had the caesarian. That's all we know about that.


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    #163
    Cleveland Hot Pocket
    Registered Users Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭Cleveland Hot Pocket


    Phoebas wrote: »
    Are you in favour of allowing legal abortion on demand up to full term then (even if you don't personally agree with it)?

    Honestly? I don't know.
    Haven't given it much thought as it isn't likely to happen.


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    #164
    fro9etb8j5qsl2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭fro9etb8j5qsl2


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    No. It was refused as she was deemed not suicidal. Of course the baby would have been aborted if she'd been genuinely suicidal. Theres no limit.

    There was a woman speaking on the radio during the week whose son was told by a HSE psychiatrist that he wasn't suicidal, he was just spoiled. 4 hours later, he took his own life.


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    #165
    Cleveland Hot Pocket
    Registered Users Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭Cleveland Hot Pocket


    leeroybrown wrote: »
    Honestly... after the abusers from the catholic church, extreme pro-lifers are my next most despised group of people in the state. They can't be allowed to think they can push their horrible line on Irish women without real people pushing back.

    +1
    Get out of my head... this is exactly my viewpoint on this one.


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    #166
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Wait what term was it when she wanted the abortion?


    Not known at the moment, nor is why she wanted the abortion (as in why she was suicidal).

    Actually no -

    "The woman was in the second trimester of the pregnancy when she discovered she was pregnant and requested the abortion, which was refused."
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/baby-delivered-as-woman-refused-abortion-under-law-30512513.html


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    #167
    PeteFalk78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 762 ✭✭✭PeteFalk78


    Kaiden Dead Penlight wrote: »
    There was a woman speaking on the radio during the week whose son was told by a HSE psychiatrist that he wasn't suicidal, he was just spoiled. 4 hours later, he took his own life.

    There was a woman that said she was suicidal because of a baby in her belly. The doctors said she was bluffing. She didn't commit suicide and the baby survived.

    Yeah you see how ridiculous it sounds?


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    #168
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »
    Honestly? I don't know.
    Haven't given it much thought as it isn't likely to happen.
    So you don't think that their should be an absolute right to choose (you accept the possibility that some cut off is reasonable).

    In this case, she was in her second trimester - we don't know exactly how far - but possibly even too far along to have had a legal abortion in the UK.


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    #169
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »
    Well there's a clear medical definition for foetus and for baby.
    Potential for life is equally present in semen and in a foetus (albeit in a different state)

    What's the instant when it changes?


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    #170
    fro9etb8j5qsl2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭fro9etb8j5qsl2


    PeteFalk78 wrote: »
    There was a woman that said she was suicidal because of a baby in her belly. The doctors said she was bluffing. She didn't commit suicide and the baby survived.

    Yeah you see how ridiculous it sounds?

    So, if she HAD committed suicide then it would have been ok that both mother and foetus died because at least it would have proved that she was really suicidal?

    And my argument sounds ridiculous?? :rolleyes:


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    #171
    Cleveland Hot Pocket
    Registered Users Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭Cleveland Hot Pocket


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What's the instant when it changes?

    Conception?
    Implantation?
    First missed period?

    Many schools of thought on the pro life side.


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    #172
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    PeteFalk78 wrote: »
    There was a woman that said she was suicidal because of a baby in her belly. The doctors said she was bluffing. She didn't commit suicide and the baby survived.

    Yeah you see how ridiculous it sounds?
    Not committing suicide is not proof of not being suicidal.
    Every single person who claims to be suicidal hasn't (yet) committed suicide.


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    #173
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Why is the indo not updating its time-stamp when it updates the text. Very off-putting!


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    #174
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Kaiden Dead Penlight wrote: »
    So, if she HAD committed suicide then it would have been ok that both mother and foetus died because at least it would have proved that she was really suicidal?

    Its perfectly logical. We throw you in water, and if you drown you're innocent, if you float you're a witch. Scientific justice.


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    #175
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Nodin wrote: »
    Its perfectly logical. We throw you in water, and if you drown you're innocent, if you float you're a witch. Scientific justice.

    But suicide is not a crime?


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    #176
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    Glad that the baby was delivered healthy

    What state the mothers mind is in now after being forced to keep the child, that's another thing.
    The woman became deeply distressed after the refusal and the baby was delivered by caesarean.


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    #177
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    catallus wrote: »
    But suicide is not a crime?


    ....don't get ye.....


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    #178
    PeteFalk78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 762 ✭✭✭PeteFalk78


    bumper234 wrote: »
    What state the mothers mind is in now after being forced to keep the child, that's another thing.

    Who says she is going to be forced to keep the child?


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    #179
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Hang on the panel of psychiatrists ruled she was a suicide risk and they refused the abortion?! That is completely out of line with the legislation.

    And they had time to assess her, make a ruling, her go on hunger strike, HSE take her to the high court and a second date to be set before this happened. There's no way that happened in less than a month in this country so it seems like she was in early second trimester when this all began.

    It really reads like they were afraid to give her the termination even with the new legislation so they delayed and persuaded her long enough for the child to be ~24 weeks when they could take a middle ground


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    #180
    Cleveland Hot Pocket
    Registered Users Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭Cleveland Hot Pocket


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    Hang on the panel of psychiatrists ruled she was a suicide risk and they refused the abortion?! That is completely out of line with the legislation.

    And they had time to assess her, make a ruling, her go on hunger strike, HSE take her to the high court and a second date to be set before this happened. There's no way that happened in less than a month in this country so it seems like she was in early second trimester when this all began.

    It really reads like they were afraid to give her the termination even with the new legislation so they delayed and persuaded her long enough for the child to be ~24 weeks when they could take a middle ground

    This is the problem with this country.
    Even when something is legalized, it isnt.


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    #181
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    Hang on the panel of psychiatrists ruled she was a suicide risk and they refused the abortion?! That is completely out of line with the legislation.

    And they had time to assess her, make a ruling, her go on hunger strike, HSE take her to the high court and a second date to be set before this happened. There's no way that happened in less than a month in this country so it seems like she was in early second trimester when this all began.

    It really reads like they were afraid to give her the termination even with the new legislation so they delayed and persuaded her long enough for the child to be ~24 weeks when they could take a middle ground

    They said she was not a suicide risk.


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