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woman refused abortion - Mod Note in first post.

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    #2132
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    How can you avail of correct medical treatment without seeing a Doctor ?

    A doctor doesn't need to be a gp. I saw a consultant obstetrician not a gp for all my maternity care. A gp wasn't someone I interacted with and if I was having mental health difficulties during my pregnancies I would have talked to my consultant not my gp.


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    #2133
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,799 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    How can you avail of correct medical treatment without seeing a Doctor ?

    how can a woman avail of a medical treatment that's illegal unless she's suicidal and gets panel approval?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #2134
    takamichinoku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭takamichinoku


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    How can you avail of correct medical treatment without seeing a Doctor ?
    What is this correct medical treatment you're on about?

    You do understand a GP is only one type of doctor? If you're already seeing a specialist for your specific issue, you generally won't need to see a GP.


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    #2135
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    lazygal wrote: »
    A doctor doesn't need to be a gp. I saw a consultant obstetrician not a gp for all my maternity care. A gp wasn't someone I interacted with and if I was having mental health difficulties during my pregnancies I would have talked to my consultant not my gp.

    So why was this women, with serious medical issues, not helped to see any of these people by the HSE/IFPA when she went to them for medical help ?
    After 8 weeks of being messed around while seeking medical help and advice from the HSE/IFPA, she only started getting any real medical help when she went to the GP at 16 weeks, as her friend thankfully advised her to do.


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    #2136
    takamichinoku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭takamichinoku


    lazygal wrote: »
    A doctor doesn't need to be a gp. I saw a consultant obstetrician not a gp for all my maternity care. A gp wasn't someone I interacted with and if I was having mental health difficulties during my pregnancies I would have talked to my consultant not my gp.
    In that situation, is your consultant not allowed take the matter to the HSE? They have to say "you need to book an appointment with a GP to begin the formal process of seeking a termination on the grounds of suicidal intent"?

    That's absolutely bonkers, no reason for it whatsoever that I can see other than to make it a bit more awkward.


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    #2137
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    So why was this women, with serious medical issues, not helped to see any of these people by the HSE/IFPA when she went to them for medical help ?
    She only started getting any real help when she went to the GP, as her friend thankfully advised her to do.

    We don't know and may never know.

    Bottom line is a suicidal pregnant woman must see a gp and if the gp refers her on then sees a panal. I don't know why I'd need to see a gp in those circumstances as I only dealt with my consultant.


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    #2138
    takamichinoku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭takamichinoku


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    So why was this women, with serious medical issues, not helped to see any of these people by the HSE/IFPA when she went to them for medical help ?
    After 8 weeks of being messed around while seeking medical help, she only started getting any real medical help when she went to the GP at 16 weeks, as her friend thankfully advised her to do.
    You don't receive "real medical help" until you want to kill yourself, apparently.


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    #2139
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    takamichinoku wrote: »
    In that situation, is your consultant not allowed take the matter to the HSE? They have to say "you need to book an appointment with a GP to begin the formal process of seeking a termination on the grounds of suicidal intent"?

    That's absolutely bonkers, no reason for it whatsoever that I can see other than to make it a bit more awkward.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2013/en/act/pub/0035/sec0009.html


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    #2140
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    lazygal wrote: »
    We don't know and may never know.

    That's not good enough, the HSE and the IFPA have a responsibilty to offer proper help and advice. Instead she had to rely on her friend at 16 weeks to sort it out.


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    #2141
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    That's not good enough, the HSE and the IFPA have a responsibilty to offer proper help and advice.

    There are also court orders and privacy elements to consider so not everything may be madepublic.


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    #2142
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    How can you avail of correct medical treatment without seeing a Doctor ?

    Do you go to a doctor for every ache, pain, cough, sneeze?


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    #2143
    Calina
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    So why was this women, with serious medical issues, not helped to see any of these people by the HSE/IFPA when she went to them for medical help ?
    After 8 weeks of being messed around while seeking medical help and advice from the HSE/IFPA, she only started getting any real medical help when she went to the GP at 16 weeks, as her friend thankfully advised her to do.

    Eh because people who campaign on a prolife lobby tend to do everything they can to put obstacles in the way of agencies in terms of providing information and support?

    I dunno really. I suspect you're never going to need an abortion so you're really only asking these questions with a view to finding a stick to beat someone.

    Given there are two young humans behind this story, I'd say that's a morally reprehensible tactic to be taking.


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    #2144
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    lazygal wrote: »
    There are also court orders and privacy elements to consider so not everything may be madepublic.

    So how come we know what she said to the IFPA and the GP, and all the other details are being discussed in the media ?


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    #2145
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    takamichinoku wrote: »
    You don't receive "real medical help" until you want to kill yourself, apparently.

    And wanting to kill yourself is a bit hard to prove to a panel who are probably terrified of making a decision. Medical facts of FFA, which can be proven - well you've to go to England to sort that out as here we prefer arguing in circles about nonsense while women are left hanging. :mad:


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    #2146
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    So how come we know what she said to the IFPA and the GP, and all the other details ?

    We don't know all of what she said but she has chosen to give interviews and give some information. Why do you want to know all the details anyway, you have said many times that the unborn is the priority regardless of the woman's preferences.


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    #2147
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    Muise... wrote: »
    Agreed - but I think only women with crisis pregnancies should decide what is best for them. If only the State trusted women to decide that for themselves. I'd bet anything we would see hardly any late abortions and those that are done late in the pregnancy would be for medical reasons only.

    Yes - but we are the state!
    Let us tell the state how to act!

    The 50% who voted in 1983 are menopausal or older.
    NONE of them will ever have a crisis pregnancy again.
    Let those involved have their say!!!

    If politicians won't do what is needed of them then vote them out!

    It seems to me that the anti-choice gang are doing a lot of politicking to ensure they obstruct or deflect from what the people want. The pro choice side must get cuter in order to show up Iona/Pro life/RCC as interfering busy bodies.


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    #2148
    takamichinoku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭takamichinoku


    eyescreamcone wrote: »
    The 50% who voted in 1983 are menopausal or older.
    factoring in the low turnout and the presumably older average age of supporters of the amendment, I wonder how many of them are even alive now...


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    #2149
    Muise...
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭Muise...


    eyescreamcone wrote: »
    Yes - but we are the state!
    Let us tell the state how to act!

    The 50% who voted in 1983 are menopausal or older.
    NONE of them will ever have a crisis pregnancy again.
    Let those involved have their say!!!

    If politicians won't do what is needed of them then vote them out!

    It seems to me that the anti-choice gang are doing a lot of politicking to ensure they obstruct or deflect from what the people want. The pro choice side must get cuter in order to show up Iona/Pro life/RCC as interfering busy bodies.

    I see what you're saying, but I would hate to have a crisis pregnancy and to have to ask the electorate (or a panel of "experts") what I can and can't do about it. I hope the 8th amendment will be repealed, and that we might someday have a government with the balls to legislate sensibly on the matter. All we have had are referenda that asked the wrong questions, and a bit of legislation that somehow resulted in a vulnerable foreign rape victim having her under-developed, unwanted foetus taken out of her body to struggle in tubes and life-supports till who knows when.

    I'm sorry and angry and ashamed Ireland did that to her.


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    #2150
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    eyescreamcone wrote: »
    Yes - but we are the state!
    Let us tell the state how to act!

    The 50% who voted in 1983 are menopausal or older.
    NONE of them will ever have a crisis pregnancy again.
    Let those involved have their say!!!

    If politicians won't do what is needed of them then vote them out!

    It seems to me that the anti-choice gang are doing a lot of politicking to ensure they obstruct or deflect from what the people want. The pro choice side must get cuter in order to show up Iona/Pro life/RCC as interfering busy bodies.

    Are you suggesting that citizens over certain age not be allowed to vote???


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    #2151
    geret
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭geret


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Are you suggesting that citizens over certain age not be allowed to vote???

    only women of child bearing age allowed. the jury is still out on the validity of votes from infertile women of child bearing age


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    #2152
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    lazygal wrote: »
    A doctor doesn't need to be a gp. I saw a consultant obstetrician not a gp for all my maternity care. A gp wasn't someone I interacted with and if I was having mental health difficulties during my pregnancies I would have talked to my consultant not my gp.

    Its odd that you got to see an oby/gcynae without being referred by a GP


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    #2153
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    geret wrote: »
    only women of child bearing age allowed. the jury is still out on the validity of votes from infertile women of child bearing age

    wow. Just wow. And I never use that expression. So you want to exclude pro-choice women outside child bearing age and the all the other parents of the unborn child. The arrogance of that is quite literally breathtaking.


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    #2154
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Its odd that you got to see an oby/gcynae without being referred by a GP

    No it isn't. I know plenty of women who self referred to maternity hospitals.


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    #2155
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Its odd that you got to see an oby/gcynae without being referred by a GP

    Maternity hospitals accept self-referrals. Holles Street even accept bookings made on their website, and only require a GP referral is you're over 12 weeks or have an underlying medical condition.


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    #2156
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,943 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Calina wrote: »
    Eh because people who campaign on a prolife lobby tend to do everything they can to put obstacles in the way of agencies in terms of providing information and support?

    Remember SPUC and their lawsuits against student unions providing information about abortion.
    takamichinoku wrote: »
    factoring in the low turnout and the presumably older average age of supporters of the amendment, I wonder how many of them are even alive now...

    I heard tales of senile elderly voters being bussed from their nursing homes by nuns and priests to polling stations and told which box to tick in both the 1983 abortion referendum and the first divorce referendum. I wonder if they still did that in 2002's abortion referendum - after all, there were also reports of people being bussed in from the furthest fringes of Ireland to anti-choice rallies in Dublin.


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    #2157
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Also if you choose your consultant and go private you book in with the secretary. I didn't go into Holles St main hospital until late in my pregnancies for a trace when I had reduced movement. Never had any dealings with my gp except for vaccines and a sick cert.


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    #2158
    geret
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭geret


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    wow. Just wow. And I never use that expression. So you want to exclude pro-choice women outside child bearing age and the all the other parents of the unborn child. The arrogance of that is quite literally breathtaking.

    your sarcasm detector must be broken today!


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    #2159
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    Maternity hospitals accept self-referrals. Holles Street even accept bookings made on their website, and only require a GP referral is you're over 12 weeks or have an underlying medical condition.

    Things have changed then. use to need a pregnancy confirmed by a GP. I presume that's still the route for most. Where I live the nearest maternity unit is 40km, so most women do dual care.


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    #2160
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    geret wrote: »
    your sarcasm detector must be broken today!

    Needs new batteries!


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    #2161
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    So how come we know what she said to the IFPA and the GP, and all the other details are being discussed in the media ?

    Let's say she had been referred to a GP, and then onto a panel of consultants, at 16 weeks, after her suicide attempt. Let's say they concluded she was at risk from suicide and an abortion was the only option at that point to save her life, and they carried out that procedure. Would you accept this course of action, or would you be instead insisting they should have taken other measures?


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