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woman refused abortion - Mod Note in first post.

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    #2372
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    lazygal wrote: »
    Any prolifer care to weigh in on whether they think the right to travel to kill an unborn child in another country should be repealed?

    No, why would they, sure people are free travel abroad to do all sorts of things to children that are illegal here, but legal in another country. It doesn't make it right though. In practice, there is no way of stopping and proving someone intends to do this, and the state's jurisdiction does not extend to other countries.


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    #2373
    jaja321
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭jaja321


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    No, why would they, sure people are free travel abroad to do all sorts of things to children that are illegal here, but legal in another country. It doesn't make it right though. In practice, there is no way of stopping and proving someone intends to do this, and the state's jurisdiction does not extend to other countries.


    What about assisted suicide? Legal in some countries, but could be prosecuted here on return if you helped someone to attain one. This doesn't exist with abortion.


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    #2374
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    SW wrote: »
    Well it would go better if you didn't ascribe things I didn't say to me.

    I said that the child may perhaps feel bad that his/her mother was raped and denied an abortion. And on some level wish his/her mother was never raped or had been offered an abortion.

    Is that so hard to empathise with?

    Sorry. I cant imagine anybody in good mental health wishing they had been aborted.


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    #2375
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Sorry. I cant imagine anybody in good mental health wishing they had been aborted.

    But in some quarters if they had the cheek to avoid abortion, they should wish they were.


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    #2376
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Sorry. I cant imagine anybody in good mental health wishing they had been aborted.

    Neither can I, but there is a big difference between wishing you had been aborted and thinking that your mother should have had the option if she so wished. See Awkward Badger's post (#2361) above.


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    #2377
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,799 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Sorry. I cant imagine anybody in good mental health wishing they had been aborted.
    Not what I said but anyways....

    Can you imagine a child who was the product of a rape wishing their mother was never raped?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #2378
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Sorry. I cant imagine anybody in good mental health wishing they had been aborted.

    You could be in perfect mental health and still wish you had never been born. I suppose it depends if you have lived all of your life in pain.


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    #2379
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,799 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    But in some quarters if they had the cheek to avoid abortion, they should wish they were.

    maybe you could help mrsbyrne with the hypotheticals posed here since you have such an active imagination.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #2380
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    Godge wrote: »
    Nope, it is much more complicated than that.


    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/becoming_an_irish_citizen_through_naturalisation.html

    (1) Child is child of asylum seeker, if mother is denied entry and residence status in the long run, child's time in Ireland does not count towards residency

    (2) Self-supporting rule - you can't just turn 18 and apply, If mother rejects child, child fails on self-supporting rule.

    Nope right back at ya there. You actually looked for an article found it and didn't read it. On st least 2 conditions this child will he an Irish citizen. Go back and this time read the page without looking for an anomaly which you thinks proves your point.


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    #2381
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Sorry. I cant imagine anybody in good mental health wishing they had been aborted.

    The question is, if this person finds out about the ordeal their mother went through, and the story of their conception, whether their mental health will suffer.

    We all want to know where we come from, and sometimes the story of how we came to be affects our mental health, no ?

    edit : top that with potential life long health issues due to the premature birth.


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    #2382
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    Mountainsandh wrote: »
    The question is, if this person finds out about the ordeal their mother went through, and the story of their conception, whether their mental health will suffer.

    We all want to know where we come from, and sometimes the story of how we came to be affects our mental health, no ?

    They have done nothing wrong
    If society was supporting them, instead of advocating their killing, why should it ?


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    #2383
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    SW wrote: »
    Not what I said but anyways....

    Can you imagine a child who was the product of a rape wishing their mother was never raped?

    So you can't wish your mother had never been raped without remaining gladvto he alive? Your frustration and anger that this child wasn't aborted is causing you to become increasingly confused. Both mother and child are alive. Maybe neither are in good health but while there's life there's hope, no?


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    #2384
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    It's not about society.

    Do you care a lot about what society thought about you coming into the world ?


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    #2385
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    My beloved daughter is 17 today. I have to organise coke and cake for about. 15. See you all later.


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    #2386
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,799 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    So you can't wish your mother had never been raped without remaining gladvto he alive?
    of course you can. but if you wish your mother hadn't been raped, the consequence is the child doesn't exist. It's nothing to do with happy/sad to be alive.
    Your frustration and anger that this child wasn't aborted is causing you to become increasingly confused.
    I would appreciate if you didn't attempt to demonise those that don't share your worldview. It doesn't make for a good discussion.
    Both mother and child are alive. Maybe neither are in good health but while there's life there's hope, no?
    Correct. But I'm talking about the pregnancy and rape not the events after the child was born.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #2387
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    So you can't wish your mother had never been raped without remaining gladvto he alive? Your frustration and anger that this child wasn't aborted is causing you to become increasingly confused. Both mother and child are alive. Maybe neither are in good health but while there's life there's hope, no?


    What a ridiculous statement.
    People here are looking at the obvious consequences on this baby's life of his or her catastrophic way of coming into the world.

    Obvious, objective consequences :
    ~ possible life long health issues
    ~ possible mental suffering when/if they find out about their birth and birth mother.


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    #2388
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    My beloved daughter is 17 today. I have to organise coke and cake for about. 15. See you all later.

    Good luck with the squeaks and giggles, spoil her rotten.


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    #2389
    dashcamdanny
    Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny


    Mountainsandh wrote: »
    What a ridiculous statement.
    People here are looking at the obvious consequences on this baby's life of his or her catastrophic way of coming into the world.

    Obvious, objective consequences :
    ~ possible life long health issues
    ~ possible mental suffering when/if they find out about their birth and birth mother.

    All of which are worse than death??:rolleyes: Cop on.


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    #2390
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    My beloved daughter is 17 today. I have to organise coke and cake for about. 15. See you all later.

    Thanks for the invite, we'll be round later. Save us some cake :D


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    #2391
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    My beloved daughter is 17 today. I have to organise coke and cake for about. 15. See you all later.


    Go easy on the coke .


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    #2392
    Awkward Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Awkward Badger


    dashcamdanny wrote: »
    All of which are worse than death??:rolleyes: Cop on.

    Abortion is not killing a child its terminating a pregnancy. So they are issues where none would have been had there been an abortion.


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    #2393
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    dashcamdanny wrote: »
    All of which are worse than death??:rolleyes: Cop on.

    Not death - never having been in the first place.

    And for the record, if I had a choice between severe mental and physical disabilities meaning that I had no chance of ever living a normal or independent life, and not having been born I think I'd choose not having been born, thanks very much.


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    #2394
    dashcamdanny
    Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny


    kylith wrote: »
    Not death - never having been in the first place.

    And for the record, if I had a choice between severe mental and physical disabilities meaning that I had no chance of ever living a normal or independent life, and not having been born I think I'd choose not having been born, thanks very much.

    Im not getting dragged into this however tempting.
    Im fairly sure a baby dies in the process, however one likes to define its life.


    I would like to add this link from the Irish times though. It sums up my opinion on the matter. Well worth the the read.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/why-all-eyes-should-be-on-the-baby-who-survived-our-abortion-laws-1.1902926


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    #2395
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    dashcamdanny wrote: »
    All of which are worse than death??:rolleyes: Cop on.

    You cop on. He made no comparison with death.


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    #2396
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    dashcamdanny wrote: »
    Im not getting dragged into this however tempting.
    Im fairly sure a baby dies in the process, however one likes to define its life.


    I would like to add this link from the Irish times though. It sums up my opinion on the matter. Well worth the the read.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/why-all-eyes-should-be-on-the-baby-who-survived-our-abortion-laws-1.1902926


    "The barely concealed logic of the pro-choice commentariat is as ugly as it gets:"

    Yet another disingenuous piece of religious bigotry and zealotry.


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    #2397
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    My beloved daughter is 17 today. I have to organise coke and cake for about. 15. See you all later.

    Ah, mrsbyrne, if you'd had an abortion, you could still be posting on boards!


    God awful joke aside, I hope your daughter and yyou have a lovely day :)


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    #2398
    dashcamdanny
    Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny


    Piliger wrote: »
    "The barely concealed logic of the pro-choice commentariat is as ugly as it gets:"

    Yet another disingenuous piece of religious bigotry and zealotry.


    Haters going to hate I guess. Seen no mention of any of those terms in the article .

    I will let you get back to your crusade .


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    #2399
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Piliger wrote: »
    "The barely concealed logic of the pro-choice commentariat is as ugly as it gets:"

    Yet another disingenuous piece of religious bigotry and zealotry.

    You said it better than I could.


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    #2400
    xalot
    Registered Users Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭xalot


    dashcamdanny wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/why-all-eyes-should-be-on-the-baby-who-survived-our-abortion-laws-1.1902926

    This article makes me so mad, such irresponsible and emotive journalism
    "The barely concealed logic of the pro-choice commentariat is as ugly as it gets: it is unjust and wrong for the baby to be alive now – the baby should have been killed weeks ago."

    You would be hard pressed to find a single person who believes the baby should have been killed. I really hope this baby grows stronger and healthier.

    I hate the pro life 'murderer' media taint. As far as I'm concerned, in this case a foetus should have been aborted when the raped and suicidal teenager requested it at 8 weeks, as is legally acceptable. End of.


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    #2401
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,799 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Piliger wrote: »
    "The barely concealed logic of the pro-choice commentariat is as ugly as it gets:"

    Yet another disingenuous piece of religious bigotry and zealotry.
    dashcamdanny wrote: »
    Haters going to hate I guess. Seen no mention of any of those terms in the article .

    I will let you get back to your crusade .

    First sentence of the second paragraph.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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