Is there any main brand of car you simply won't buy?

filbert the fox

Ralphdejones wrote: »

I've never ever understood the whole "I will never drive a . . . . make" thing

It makes no sense to me

The model is what determines a good/bad car, not the make, and that's more true now than ever.

Granted there are some makes that have never made a model I would drive, but that's not to say they won't.

AGree fully, if these vehicles are so bad how come the companys are still trading?

FrontDoor

Outside of the reliability thing, I don't get the Peugeot hate.

They are extremely comfortable cars. I know I'd prefer a long motorway spin in a 407 over an equivalent Passat any day.

Viper_JB

Ralphdejones wrote: »

I've never ever understood the whole "I will never drive a . . . . make" thing

It makes no sense to me

The model is what determines a good/bad car, not the make, and that's more true now than ever.

Granted there are some makes that have never made a model I would drive, but that's not to say they won't.

Sometimes not even the model...there are types of 5 series that I would never consider buying but I own a 5 series.

Into The Blue

filbert the fox wrote: »

AGree fully, if these vehicles are so bad how come the companys are still trading?

Advertising

Ralphdejones

FrontDoor wrote: »

Outside of the reliability thing, I don't get the Peugeot hate.

They are extremely comfortable cars. I know I'd prefer a long motorway spin in a 407 over an equivalent Passat any day.

It usually comes from people who have never driven some of Peugeot's great models.
Unfortunately for Peugeot, many of their recent models reliability has been very poor, including the 407.
I hope they return to form soon.

Viper_JB

nc19 wrote: »

I will stick with my souless jap and korean cars ta very much

Makers of the GTR, RX8, GT86, 350z....too many more to mention....souless

bmc58

NIMAN wrote: »

I'm talking main brands here.

I have always had an anti-French thing. Never owned one myself, but some siblings and friends have and seen too many issues, some of them fairly major, to put me of buying one. Renault usually the main culprit.

Another would be Vauxhall or Opel. Again know a few people who are always bitching about problems with theirs. Zafiras and Astra's main offenders.

OK so you're only talking a handful of cases, but these can sometimes make your mind up on an entire brand.

Is there any brand you wouldn't dare touch with your own money?

Fiat Punto.
Head gasket has a nasty habit of blowing.My brother had one new once and he had nothing but trouble with it (including the head gasket).Fiat...no,no.

Ralphdejones

nc19 wrote: »

I work in an non main dealer and by far the most common car to come in with problems would be french cars followed by german (mainly bmw) followed by fords. Couldnt tell you the last time a mazda 2/3/6 came in for anything more than a service. Lancers and Colts get rusty exhausts but thats it. Nissan micra/almera no problems really but dont get me started on the primera (newer shape) Same with kia and hyundai, minor wear and tear problems.
By a long way euro cars are junkers with bmw leading the charge.

On this note I would never by a car from Europe.

I will stick with my souless jap and korean cars ta very much

The general reliability of any make is potentially too changeable over time.
Eg. The more recent Toyotas are no where near as reliable as the older models.
Hyundai’s and Kia's used to be balls of scrap metal.
VAG were once very reliable, now they are far from it.
I still think the actual model (not model name) is a much better guide to reliability than make, or continent.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

nc19 wrote: »

On this note I would never by a car from Europe.

If american cars were more viable as a daily driver I'd do the same!

Boskowski

Ford. Audi, too.

I know they're alright cars. They're just so square. My 'Flanders' neighbour sort of car. Couldn't make myself do it. Ever.

Edit: I do realize it's a bit silly. I'm not exactly mr artsy sexy revolutionary myself. It's just what it is.

nc19

Viper_JB wrote: »

Makers of the GTR, RX8, GT86, 350z....too many more to mention....souless

should have put air quotes around souless

but tbh they are just cars, they are all souless!

now motorbikes on the other hand..........

Viper_JB

nc19 wrote: »

should have put air quotes around souless.

In fairness though the Korean cars are pretty souless...

Francie Barrett

Haven't owned anything other than a Passat in nearly 15 years now. Quite frankly, I have no interest in buying anything else either. I change every 3 years after the warranty expires. Not a cheap way to get around, but at my age, I just can't be bothered with hassle or going against something that just works for me.

nc19

Viper_JB wrote: »

In fairness though the Korean cars are pretty souless...

But, but, but they come with USB points in the centre console. .....

Tea 1000

Into The Blue wrote: »

Also, hate the way French cars handled years ago, so that has stuck with me.

Years ago was when French cars handled their best!

mickdw wrote: »

Current model IS is good but the last model really was not a nice place to be.
Far far too much avensis feel to it and that is not a good thing.

Nothing about the 06-13 IS was Avensis. Look, feel, chassis or otherwise.

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

New Merc S-Class is the epitome of prestige. It really doesn't get better, and going more expensive seems to demonstrate that there's not much point in spending any more money.

Stheno wrote: »

Wasn't the older 406 coupe designed by Pininfarina?

Yep, so too was the 306.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

only the engine block itself is psa... the rest are ford components. (air flow meters, fuel pumps etc wont swap with each other)

i never said ford was better than any others. to answer the question i simply would not buy a lexus/renault and others.

That's not necessarily a good thing. A Volvo engineer was telling me that they had no issues with the water pump with that engine and couldn't understand why so many Ford owners with the same block were having failures. Until they took apart the Ford pump and discovered what cheap muck it was. And the coolant Ford were using was cheap generic muck too.

Joe 90 wrote: »

Yes, Japanese cars were pretty bad when tey appeared first but they were well built compared with the rubbish that British Leyland inflicted on their customers. The cars improved to the extent that some were desirable provided that you dumped that Japanese tyres that they came with and bought some decent European tyres. These days the buikd some decent cars and some of the best tyres in the world. Wouldn't say the the Koreans have anything worthwhile yet but they will. Chines, at least a generation away.

The problem with Chinese car brands is that there isn't the same car culture there that existed in Japan. The petrol heads in Japan led the Jap marques to design and built better cars to suit. Aftermarket tuners were commonplace. Germany had a similar car culture. The Japanese build quality was second to none thanks to the culture that existed where you more or less live for your company, and the company takes care of your family. Pride went into the build.
Anything I have today both at work and home that was built in China is inferior quality. The Chinese love gadgets in their cars according to James May on that report they did over there, so we'll probably see them leading the way in that respect, but build quality and lack of a petrol head culture might hinder their progress when compared to the Japanese.
The only thing that might be different these days is that they'll just buy in either the expertise or the platforms/engines.

There's no marque I wouldn't buy, although there are time periods that I wouldn't buy from a marque, like Mercedes after 97 and before late 2005. Or Peugeot after 2001 and before around 2012. 90's Peugeots were almost all excellent, 00's not so much, lately they seem to be back.

Alun

Just to say my dislike of French cars has nothing to do with reliability issues, as I've never owned one, but always seem to get lumbered with them as hire / replacement cars, especially 20(7|8) or 30(7|8) and I hated the whole experience of driving them with a passion.

I had to drive an '00 Citroen Saxo at the weekend, which was also a horrible experience. Maybe if I had feet the size of a leprechaun's and both my legs offset 6 inches to the left it would have been OK, but again a horrible experience.

Ralphdejones

Alun wrote: »

Just to say my dislike of French cars has nothing to do with reliability issues, as I've never owned one, but always seem to get lumbered with them as hire / replacement cars, especially 20(7|8) or 30(7|8) and I hated the whole experience of driving them with a passion.

I had to drive an '00 Citroen Saxo at the weekend, which was also a horrible experience. Maybe if I had feet the size of a leprechaun's and both my legs offset 6 inches to the left it would have been OK, but again a horrible experience.

The french have made some of the most comfortable cars ever made, you've correctly pointed out model issues, but not make or nationality issues.

JC01

SpaceTime wrote: »

You also can't really base your opinion purely on brand or some kind of weird notion that the nationality of the car has an impact on the build quality either.

Mostly it's about price point and sometimes individual car makers produce dud lines of cars with a particular flaw, or go through a phase of making dud cars then they can go through a golden age too where they produce amazing stuff.

It can be down to a change of production management, or a particular design team / lead designer.

I don't think that's why there's so much French-hate on here. This forum has mostly car-people on it and I'd say like myself a lot of car people hate the soulless plastic econoboxes that the French manufacturers pump out.

quadrifoglio verde

Ralphdejones wrote: »

The french have made some of the most comfortable cars ever made, you've correctly pointed out model issues, but not make or nationality issues.

I'd agree with this. The most comfortable paddy spec car I've been in was a 406. Jesus those seats were comfy

Ralphdejones

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

I'd agree with this. The most comfortable paddy spec car I've been in was a 406. Jesus those seats were comfy

Loved the 406, great car. Peugeots do tend to be hit or miss. Again it's down to the model. Some of the most reliable and unreliable cars I know have been Peugeots.

keithclancy

nc19 wrote: »

But, but, but they come with USB points in the centre console. .....

Should be standard on all cars, just replace all the cigarette lighters with them.

Theboinkmaster

phelixoflaherty wrote: »

BMW. Loathsome cars.

What's loathsome about an m5?

Idiot :rolleyes:

Mod note: banned

bear1

Can't believe the amount of cars written off peoples list due to a friend/brother/distant cousin 3 times removed having had problems with it.
I wouldn't exclude anything unless it had caused me myself problems.
To that effect I would never own a Ford again.
Any other mark I would gladly drive around in if A) the price was right the spec is good and C) doesn't look like a donkeys arse.
From what I saw no one mentioned Lancia which makes me happy

FrontDoor

I know some on here are involved in the car leasing business.

Are there particular makes/models that you simply won't touch?

I recall years ago the Alfa 156 was banned as a company car in a place I worked.

dgt

FrontDoor wrote: »

I know some on here are involved in the car leasing business.

Are there particular makes/models that you simply won't touch?

I recall years ago the Alfa 156 was banned as a company car in a place I worked.

That's actually made me burst out laughing :D:D:D:D

shedweller

FrontDoor wrote: »

I know some on here are involved in the car leasing business.

Are there particular makes/models that you simply won't touch?

I recall years ago the Alfa 156 was banned as a company car in a place I worked.

The brother works for a place that took on the opel brand a while back and says his future job prospects are now secure! Said he is very busy with opels now with ecu's failing regularly.
Make of that what you will!

H3llR4iser

Experience taught me that discounting any brand as "I would never own one" is a very, very, very silly thing to do.

I never liked much of the BMW design, thought "I'd never have one", then the E90 came out and I liked it - came within an inch from buying a 320i back in October.

I would say "I'd never buy a Toyota, dullest things on wheels", then the GT86 came out.

I could go on forever, I'm sure I could find examples for many of the brands.

Also, it is worth noticing that most people base their "I would never own a..." on hearsay, "common knowledge" about some brand reportedly being "unreliable"; A few had actually bad experiences, sometimes out of sheer bad luck, sometimes out of the "turn the key and go" attitude.

djimi

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

What's loathsome about an m5?

The running costs...

djimi

bear1 wrote: »

Can't believe the amount of cars written off peoples list due to a friend/brother/distant cousin 3 times removed having had problems with it.
I wouldn't exclude anything unless it had caused me myself problems.

Seriously? I know of several people who have had terrible experiences with Rover for example. I have never driven one myself, and perhaps they are truely wonderful cars and I just know lots of unlucky people, but christ Id sooner walk than ever spend my hard earned money on one based on what I have seen of them.

I fail to believe for a second that if you knew of a brand/model of car that people that you knew were having trouble with that you wouldnt steer well clear of it.

Tea 1000

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Haven't owned anything other than a Passat in nearly 15 years now. Quite frankly, I have no interest in buying anything else either. I change every 3 years after the warranty expires. Not a cheap way to get around, but at my age, I just can't be bothered with hassle or going against something that just works for me.

djimi wrote: »

Seriously? I know of several people who have had terrible experiences with Rover for example. I have never driven one myself, and perhaps they are truely wonderful cars and I just know lots of unlucky people, but christ Id sooner walk than ever spend my hard earned money on one based on what I have seen of them.

I fail to believe for a second that if you knew of a brand/model of car that people that you knew were having trouble with that you wouldnt steer well clear of it.

Depends on the trouble and the cost to fix, or the problem that's there. Some folk have no end of trouble with a car because they bought a bag of dung in the first place.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Regardless, you bought a ford focus diesel but you wouldnt buy a lexus?
That's just nonsensical tbh.

So a 1.6 diesel focus is better than an ls400 or a sc430, or the IS range?
Idiotic IMO - you should really think before you post sometimes.

I never once said it was better

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

nc19

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

What's loathsome about an m5?

Idiot :rolleyes:

Everything

Ralphdejones

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Experience taught me that discounting any brand as "I would never own one" is a very, very, very silly thing to do.

I never liked much of the BMW design, thought "I'd never have one", then the E90 came out and I liked it - came within an inch from buying a 320i back in October.

I would say "I'd never buy a Toyota, dullest things on wheels", then the GT86 came out.

I could go on forever, I'm sure I could find examples for many of the brands.

Also, it is worth noticing that most people base their "I would never own a..." on hearsay, "common knowledge" about some brand reportedly being "unreliable"; A few had actually bad experiences, sometimes out of sheer bad luck, sometimes out of the "turn the key and go" attitude.

Which nicely illustrates that it's actual model that really determines if it's a good car or not, not the make or nationality.

bear1

djimi wrote: »

Seriously? I know of several people who have had terrible experiences with Rover for example. I have never driven one myself, and perhaps they are truely wonderful cars and I just know lots of unlucky people, but christ Id sooner walk than ever spend my hard earned money on one based on what I have seen of them.

I fail to believe for a second that if you knew of a brand/model of car that people that you knew were having trouble with that you wouldnt steer well clear of it.

Fair enough, i probably phrased what i meant badly. I wouldnt write a car off cause one said its bad but if many people did then it may affect my choice. If i listened to all the crap that was said about alfas or fiat id never have owned them but they have been the most reliable cars ive had

djimi

bear1 wrote: »

Fair enough, i probably phrased what i meant badly. I wouldnt write a car off cause one said its bad but if many people did then it may affect my choice. If i listened to all the crap that was said about alfas or fiat id never have owned them but they have been the most reliable cars ive had

Thats fair enough. There is a difference between seeing the problems first hand (through a friend/family member) and listening to "man in the pub" talk.

That said, I had a Fiat and it was a bit of a disaster, as was the Alfa that nearly broke my colleagues heart, so read into that what you will :pac:

Hachiko

Japanese cars are extremely reliable, I have photos of some nice Lexus cars but cant upload them, 5 litre f sports, clearly not as good as a daysul focus. I am seriously considering selling mine for the aul cheap tax and daysul spirit.

Ralphdejones

Hachiko wrote: »

Japanese cars are extremely reliable

I've seen many Nissans and and quite a few of the more recent Toyotas give a load of bother. The actual model and the engine fitted is a much better guide than make or nationality.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Hachiko

Mazda/Mazda MPS, Lexus, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Honda petrols, all these are pretty bomb proof once looked after. I got a is250 and its superb. A lot of people are absolutely rose tinted towards German cars. Its like they suffer from some serious peripheral vision problems and cant see the world past Germany. Anything after that part of Europe doesn't exist.

Ralphdejones

Hachiko wrote: »

Mazda/Mazda MPS, Lexus, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Honda petrols, all these are pretty bomb proof once looked after. I got a is250 and its superb. A lot of people are absolutely rose tinted towards German cars. Its like they suffer from some serious peripheral vision problems and cant see the world past Germany. Anything after that part of Europe doesn't exist.

Jap lovers have the same bother

Hachiko

I have had a few BMWs and Fords too btw.

Voodoomelon

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Experience taught me that discounting any brand as "I would never own one" is a very, very, very silly thing to do.

I never liked much of the BMW design, thought "I'd never have one", then the E90 came out and I liked it - came within an inch from buying a 320i back in October.

I would say "I'd never buy a Toyota, dullest things on wheels", then the GT86 came out.

I could go on forever, I'm sure I could find examples for many of the brands.

Also, it is worth noticing that most people base their "I would never own a..." on hearsay, "common knowledge" about some brand reportedly being "unreliable"; A few had actually bad experiences, sometimes out of sheer bad luck, sometimes out of the "turn the key and go" attitude.

Would you buy a Ssangyong?

Ralphdejones

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Would you buy a Ssangyong?

I've never seen a model I like so at the moment no, but if they ever bring out a decent reliable model at a good price why not ? I feel the same about lots of other makes. The model is the determining factor for me, not the plastic makers badge on the front.

dgt

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Would you buy a Ssangyong?

Be the Chairman in your very own Chairman

Voodoomelon

That's cool. But to me if a brand hasn't a single car that id even remotely consider, over several years of production, with a poor image and bottom of the ladder status, that's grounds for dismissing the brand entirely.

Hachiko

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Would you buy a Ssangyong?

oh the rexton

worst car ever.

dr.fuzzenstein

A lot of it is "Me da's uncle's cousing had one in the 70's, awful yoke, dey're all shoite, would never own one!"

ZeroThreat

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

A lot of it is "Me da's uncle's cousing had one in the 70's, awful yoke, dey're all shoite, would never own one!"

Indeed, I'm still seething at FIAT for the Ritmo.......

H3llR4iser

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Would you buy a Ssangyong?

If they came out with something I like (and by like I mean the way it drives - make no mistake, the Toyota GT86 for example still looks cr@p like most Toyotas, but at least the driving makes up for it), I don't see why not.