Last straw with Gamestop and what not

woppi

TheDoc wrote: »

This conversation came up earlier in the year regarding Gamestop, might have been last year. But I remember I got involved in the chatter because I had just read an article with some stats about the average recycle of a game in Gamestop.

It was something like your average top tier release recycles through the gamestop system 6 times in 12 months.

So while the initial purchase of say €60, a percentage of that goes to the correct people, the following five sales ( typically brought down to the €50 mark) would generate €200 for gamestop exclusively, with no margin provided to distributors or developers.

In fairness hats off its a clever system that isn't exactly new, but it's a hot topic in the gaming industry for producers

That's why the gaming studios and distributors are moving to download.

EyeSight

woppi wrote: »

That's why the gaming studios and distributors are moving to download.

unfortunately on consoles they don't seem to be any cheaper(most times more expensive) than buying the actual game somewhere like on Amazon. I can't understand that. Microsoft have huge data centers so storage is cheap for them, also they don't need to pay for discs, covers etc. so a download should be much cheaper than a physical copy.

I stopped shopping in Gamestop long ago. I am not sure how they do business on new games because they're almost always the most expensive. I love when they have their massive "Sales" - Posters all over the place advertising it and when you go in there's a few pre-owned DVDs on sale Game used to do real sales every once in a while and even had deals of the week where fairly new games were 15 euro off

Generic Dreadhead

TheDoc wrote: »

So while the initial purchase of say €60, a percentage of that goes to the correct people, the following five sales ( typically brought down to the €50 mark) would generate €200 for gamestop exclusively, with no margin provided to distributors or developers.

If you're going to use maths, use it right.
Your example is based on the fact that Gamestop give zero Cash, zero store credit or zero money off on another game.
It's also assuming a title is still going to €50 second hand one year later which is an Absolute minority.

Game costs:
Player 1 buys game at €60 (current Gamestop take = €60)
Player 1 trades it in: Gets €30 cash back (i'm going to use cash to keep it straightforward.
Player 2 buys game at €50 2nd hand (current Gamestop take = €80 factoring in)
Player 2 trades it in: Gets €25 cash back
Player 3 buys game at €45 3rd hand (current Gamestop take = €100)
Player 3 trades it in: Gets €20 cash back
Player 4 buys game at €40 4th hand (current Gamestop take = €120)
Player 4 trades it in: Gets €15 cash back
Player 5 buys game at €35 5th hand (current Gamestop take = €140)
Player 5 trades it in: Gets €15 cash back
Player 6 buys game at €30 5th hand (current Gamestop take = €155)

So Gamestop have made €155, of which it is not all profit and a certain % must go back to the distributor, even assuming that would be 66% of the RRP (so €40) at launch time, they have still only made €115 in a year off one title that has been through the cycle 5/6 times.

I'm not defending Gamestop, I'm defending maths

ShadowHearth

Cormac... wrote: »

If you're going to use maths, use it right.
Your example is based on the fact that Gamestop give zero Cash, zero store credit or zero money off on another game.
It's also assuming a title is still going to €50 second hand one year later which is an Absolute minority.

Game costs:
Player 1 buys game at €60 (current Gamestop take = €60)
Player 1 trades it in: Gets €30 cash back (i'm going to use cash to keep it straightforward.
Player 2 buys game at €50 2nd hand (current Gamestop take = €80 factoring in)
Player 2 trades it in: Gets €25 cash back
Player 3 buys game at €45 3rd hand (current Gamestop take = €100)
Player 3 trades it in: Gets €20 cash back
Player 4 buys game at €40 4th hand (current Gamestop take = €120)
Player 4 trades it in: Gets €15 cash back
Player 5 buys game at €35 5th hand (current Gamestop take = €140)
Player 5 trades it in: Gets €15 cash back
Player 6 buys game at €30 5th hand (current Gamestop take = €155)

So Gamestop have made €155, of which it is not all profit and a certain % must go back to the distributor, even assuming that would be 66% of the RRP (so €40) at launch time, they have still only made €115 in a year off one title that has been through the cycle 5/6 times.

I'm not defending Gamestop, I'm defending maths

Add 21% Vat on top of each sale and gamestops cut is not as big as you think. On top of that, it is gamble. They had taken games in trade in, which then are not even worth the plastic used to print those games. Ever seen a wall full of old Fifas and Cod/BF games?

Generic Dreadhead

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Add 21% Vat on top of each sale and gamestops cut is not as big as you think. On top of that, it is gamble.

I wanted to try keep it simply about the cycle of buy/sell/trade... I mean... there's also overheads like electricity/rent/staff wages etc... but you know de-la-vie.

ShadowHearth

Cormac... wrote: »

I wanted to try keep it simply about the cycle of buy/sell/trade... I mean... there's also overheads like electricity/rent/staff wages etc... but you know de-la-vie.

I know, but 21% on top of all the actual expense is A LOT. People are a bit deluded if they think that Gamestop makes that much of money from second hand sales.

On the other hand, it would be interesting to see how Gamestop doing when they started selling all next gen games at 70eu+ point. What is the actual RRP prices for Ireland? I know that in US they were selling games for 60$ and they still sell next gen stuff for 60$...

cloud493

According to some people on neogaf, they're complaining cos US game prices are creeping up to $70.

Kylo Ren

cloud493 wrote: »

According to some people on neogaf, they're complaining cos US game prices are creeping up to $70.

Poor guys. A whole €53 for a game!

cloud493

Makes your heart bleed :rolleyes:

EyeSight

Keno wrote: »

Poor guys. A whole €53 for a game!

I know you're not being serious but typically a game would be $55-$60 on launch here. Wait a few weeks and it would go to $40-$50 depending on the game. You need to compare it to other retailers in the US, such as amazon. Not to other countries

lertsnim

EyeSight wrote: »

unfortunately on consoles they don't seem to be any cheaper(most times more expensive) than buying the actual game somewhere like on Amazon.

Any digital download I purchased for the PS4 has been the same or less than Amazon. The few minutes it took to setup a US PSN account was more than worth it.

EoinHef

lertsnim wrote: »

Any digital download I purchased for the PS4 has been the same or less than Amazon. The few minutes it took to setup a US PSN account was more than worth it.

Did you use an address(state) with no sales tax?

lertsnim

Oregon

Maestro84

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I know, but 21% on top of all the actual expense is A LOT. People are a bit deluded if they think that Gamestop makes that much of money from second hand sales.

On the other hand, it would be interesting to see how Gamestop doing when they started selling all next gen games at 70eu+ point. What is the actual RRP prices for Ireland? I know that in US they were selling games for 60$ and they still sell next gen stuff for 60$...

VAT is actually 23% in Ireland the last few years. Also I assume VAT is paid on the profit they make on the game and not the price they sell the second hand game at. So if someone sold it for €30 to Gamestop and they sold it on for €50, VAT would only be liable on the €20 profit. This method is used by car dealers so I assume it is the same for this.

EoinHef

lertsnim wrote: »

Oregon

Oregon has no sales tax,thats why your getting it so cheap.

Tis a loophole that can have no real comparison to prices here which include tax. For it to be an effective comparison you would need to take VAT off the price here for comparison.

For example a game that €60 here,€13.80 of that is tax. Leaving the "cost" of the game at €46.20.

So yeah,can blame the government as well as gamestop:)

EDIT: Just did a quick currency conversion there,€46.20 works out at $61.82. So we actually are paying a similar price to the yanks. Its just tax over here kills us:(

lertsnim

EoinHef wrote: »

Oregon has no sales tax,thats why your getting it so cheap.

Tis a loophole that can have no real comparison to prices here which include tax. For it to be an effective comparison you would need to take VAT off the price here for comparison.

I'm well aware that they have no sales tax. That's why I chose them when setting up the account.

The point I'm making here is that I can purchase the games while here in Ireland. You don't have to be in Oregon to buy them or even use a real address. It is a perfectly valid alternative to the rip off that is GameStop

TheDoc

Cormac... wrote: »

If you're going to use maths, use it right.
Your example is based on the fact that Gamestop give zero Cash, zero store credit or zero money off on another game.
It's also assuming a title is still going to €50 second hand one year later which is an Absolute minority.

Game costs:
Player 1 buys game at €60 (current Gamestop take = €60)
Player 1 trades it in: Gets €30 cash back (i'm going to use cash to keep it straightforward.
Player 2 buys game at €50 2nd hand (current Gamestop take = €80 factoring in)
Player 2 trades it in: Gets €25 cash back
Player 3 buys game at €45 3rd hand (current Gamestop take = €100)
Player 3 trades it in: Gets €20 cash back
Player 4 buys game at €40 4th hand (current Gamestop take = €120)
Player 4 trades it in: Gets €15 cash back
Player 5 buys game at €35 5th hand (current Gamestop take = €140)
Player 5 trades it in: Gets €15 cash back
Player 6 buys game at €30 5th hand (current Gamestop take = €155)

So Gamestop have made €155, of which it is not all profit and a certain % must go back to the distributor, even assuming that would be 66% of the RRP (so €40) at launch time, they have still only made €115 in a year off one title that has been through the cycle 5/6 times.

I'm not defending Gamestop, I'm defending maths

The point was outlining their return on the recycle of second hand games. No point being convoluted in regards to how they distribute back to the customer, as you could argue that comes from seperate revenue streams.

Point still stands. And while we might not think on the surface that a game holds that value, the research and investigative journalism that was done on this, through the course of their research, the titles still held the large part of their original value.

shruikan2553

Went in yesterday to see Destiny for 75 euro. Now thats a rip off

Kirby

I buy everything digitally now. Xbox, playstation, Pc, 3ds, whatever. Once I finally got myself off of 4 meg and onto fibre, it's the only thing I've used.

Sure EA were charging like 70 quid for the Sims. My sister is a huge sims fan but even she balked at that price. I found it for her for 31 euro online. That is a massive difference.

Why pay 75 euro for big games like Fifa, Destiny, etc. when I can get them online for 40 euro? If you have good internet and can download them, save your wallet and buy it digitally.

Fate Amenable To Change

Its strange how the fallout and the elder scrolls games seem to be like 20e cheaper than the going price of other games on the console for the first month.

who_me

Bought a PS4 / Destiny bundle and a couple of games the other day, got a barrage of questions which ended up with me:

- getting the two games pre-owned, so at a discount - great!
- being told I could later add the purchase to my gamestop loyalty card (I thought) but when I went back in they said it wasn't possible.
- cashing in Destiny (I only wanted the console), which they put against Assassin's Creed Unity, but I've no record or receipt of this so I'm worried I've just given them a "€75" game for free.

cloud493

who_me wrote: »

Bought a PS4 / Destiny bundle and a couple of games the other day, got a barrage of questions which ended up with me:

- getting the two games pre-owned, so at a discount - great!
- being told I could later add the purchase to my gamestop loyalty card (I thought) but when I went back in they said it wasn't possible.
- cashing in Destiny (I only wanted the console), which they put against Assassin's Creed Unity, but I've no record or receipt of this so I'm worried I've just given them a "€75" game for free.

If you pre ordered something, you should have got a receipt.

Augmerson

Penn wrote: »

It's their Loyalty System that's going to stop me from buying from them.

Their Level 3 system allows you to return a new game within 7 days for a full cash refund. Took me a while to figure out why they were pushing it so hard as a reason to sign up. Then I realised it's so they can get the game back (where they would have only gotten a percentage of the original sale), then put the game up for second hand sale for about a fiver less and they get all of it.

One of the staff trying to sell me on it even told me you could do it as many times as you like. Though he then told me there was one guy who was doing it once or twice a week so they decided to limit him to only once every two weeks.

Is this true?

Astonished. What the **** like.

cloud493

A lot of the stuff they used to do is now loyalty card exclusive, like the 25% extra trade in towards pre orders and what not.

Dayum

The quicker the better everyone goes digital.

I was hoping the new generation of consoles would do away with disks and let these Gamestop gangsters go to the wall. Should of been gone years ago.

Furp

Dayum wrote: »

The quicker the better everyone goes digital.

I was hoping the new generation of consoles would do away with disks and let these Gamestop gangsters go to the wall. Should of been gone years ago.

I agree but don't forget Microsoft were lambasted for taking this approach when they announced the xbox one. Although gradually it's getting better pricing is still a major issue in many markets, digital shoild be on par if not cheaper then physical copy. Again there are some sites that sell redemption codes the a good price.

The last game I bought in gamestop was gta v, with game protection, disc got damaged and they wouldn't replace even though I had all the receipts for some reason the game protection was not listed, since then it's been ganes from Amazon, eBay abd digital downloads but you need patience for these in the xbox one and ps4 if you are not on a fast connection.

Dayum

Furp wrote: »

I agree but don't forget Microsoft were lambasted for taking this approach when they announced the xbox one. Although gradually it's getting better pricing is still a major issue in many markets, digital shoild be on par if not cheaper then physical copy. Again there are some sites that sell redemption codes the a good price.

The last game I bought in gamestop was gta v, with game protection, disc got damaged and they wouldn't replace even though I had all the receipts for some reason the game protection was not listed, since then it's been ganes from Amazon, eBay abd digital downloads but you need patience for these in the xbox one and ps4 if you are not on a fast connection.

I hate consoles.

No PC elitist but I have my reasons. Consoles are overpriced, outdated, closed shops.

Sigh, Can't wait for Valve to annihilate these f*ckers.

CptMackey

cloud493 wrote: »

A lot of the stuff they used to do is now loyalty card exclusive, like the 25% extra trade in towards pre orders and what not.

Was looking around in the local gamestop today and over heard the fella behind the till saying that you can't trade in unless you are a member. Did I hear right that you have to pay for this membership loyalty thing. Give me Amazon any day

Generic Dreadhead

CptMackey wrote: »

Was looking around in the local gamestop today and over heard the fella behind the till saying that you can't trade in unless you are a member. Did I hear right that you have to pay for this membership loyalty thing. Give me Amazon any day

i'm surprised you are asking here, instead of, you know, in the store when you were there :pac:

who_me

cloud493 wrote: »

If you pre ordered something, you should have got a receipt.

Not sure! I didn't explicitly pre-order anything - they suggested I could trade in Destiny and I said fine. They said I could put it against an individual game, and I mentioned AC Unity. I checked the receipt last night and it makes no mention of AC Unity - I'm hoping they made a record of it as otherwise I've no proof.

My standard answer with Gamestop going forward is "No. I want what I just handed you, nothing more or less".