AI Final 07/09/14. Tipp v Kilkenny

citykat

washman3 wrote: »

As long as its not James Owens..!!
KK seem to have a big problem with him too.

No problem with Owens here. Ref'd the LF. No complaints. I did say here on this forum before the match I'd no problem with Kelly.

Amprodude

mrhat wrote: »

In fairness I think Eddie was airing the views of many KK people rather than having a personal snipe at B Kelly.

It is very interesting to note that in the last 5 championship games that KK have failed to win B Kelly refereed 4 of them. Now I'm no statistician but that seems an unlikely occurrence and I would have to say that Eddie has made a point worthy of discussion...

Doesn't make a difference. If KK were good enough they would have won today.

Markx

Markx wrote: »

Aside from the petty bickering it was a fine game. Very high standard. Tipperary were the better team and I'd guess that a team has never played so well and not won a final. Especially looking back at The Sunday Game it feels like Kilkenny got out of jail a bit. I would hope that Tipperary couldn't perform so well again in a replay.

It would be unfair to say that we deserved to win overall. Kilkenny to their credit missed chances also in the first half.

Next day will be another huge challenge and i would hope O'Shea will come up with some kind of a surprise. I have the greatest of time for Eoin Kelly as a Tipperary great and as a person but sad to say he offered nothing and was never going to offer anything today. We needed freshness and mobility and it would seem O'Shea used Eoin perhaps to get the cheer out of the Tipp crowd in response to the cheer that the Kilkenny crowd gave Henry. If were going down that route then its a road that will hit a firm dead end.

Forde done well when he came on and the game was setup for fresh legs. Denis Maher hasn't let Tipp down once this year when he has made appearances. The game was crying out for him. Why on earth we wasted that sub is beyond me and i hate to be so disrespectful to Eoin Kelly but at this stage its crazy why he was chosen over youth.
Id consider calling up an u21 if i was the management. High risk but perhaps like Walter Walsh and Shane O'Donnell it could be high reward

Markx

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Very strange attack on the ref their from Eddie Brennan.

I used to respect Eddie as he was a good player and decent analyst but he's way off the mark here. That's leaves a very bitter taste. Surprised with him. He's definitely out of order their and was rightly called on it by Des.

I think he was representing a widely held view in Kilkenny. The appointment of Barry to a Kilkenny match is met with some apprehension in Kilkenny to say the least and whatever the reasons, be they misguided or not, that's a fact.

It was brought to a head by the sending off of Shefflin for an imaginary foul last year.

Mantis Toboggan

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

You're moving the goalposts now.

Whether or not there's a better ref than he, doesn't change the fact that he was not 'excellent' today, as you claimed.

There were a couple of bad decisions on both sides (there always is with the speed of play) but I thought he let the game flow brilliantly making it the spectacle that it was.

citykat

Deleted User wrote: »

It would be unfair to say that we deserved to win overall. Kilkenny to their credit missed chances also in the first half.

Next day will be another huge challenge and i would hope O'Shea will come up with some kind of a surprise. I have the greatest of time for Eoin Kelly as a Tipperary great and as a person but sad to say he offered nothing and was never going to offer anything today. We needed freshness and mobility and it would seem O'Shea used Eoin perhaps to get the cheer out of the Tipp crowd in response to the cheer that the Kilkenny crowd gave Henry. If were going down that route then its a road that will hit a firm dead end.

Forde done well when he came on and the game was setup for fresh legs. Denis Maher hasn't let Tipp down once this year when he has made appearances. The game was crying out for him. Why on earth we wasted that sub is beyond me and i hate to be so disrespectful to Eoin Kelly but at this stage its crazy why he was chosen over youth.
Id consider calling up an u21 if i was him or pe

Agree on Kelly. As a KK fan love seeing that big arse waddling onto the pitch. IMO he's not fit enough for IC hurling.

citykat

citykat wrote: »

Agree on Kelly. As a KK fan love seeing that big arse waddling onto the pitch. IMO he's not fit enough for IC hurling.

+1
I think most of the cheers for him today were probably from Kilkenny fans.

I hate to be so disrespectful but Eoin's time has gone. A brilliant hurler for Tipp in his prime and a brilliant guy and i hope he will play a part for Tipp in the future....BUT NOT AS A FÚCKIN PLAYER EAMON FOR GOD SAKE! :mad:

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Amprodude wrote: »

Doesn't make a difference. If KK were good enough they would have won today.

I`ve read this post a few times now and still can't make any sense of it.

ceegee

Buddy Holly wrote: »

There were a couple of bad decisions on both sides (there always is with the speed of play) but I thought he let the game flow brilliantly making it the spectacle that it was.

He "let the game flow" by not penalising fouls, often when there was little or no advantage to the fouled team.

It was a great match but imo it was great in spite of the refs performance rather than because of it.

Amprodude

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

I`ve read this post a few times now and still can't make any sense of it.

In other words blaming the referee isnt why KK didn't win today.

fed up sick and tired

Amprodude wrote: »

Doesn't make a difference. If KK were good enough they would have won today.

It's like saying that it doesn't make a difference that he got the Hogan call wrong, because after all, Bubbles missed the free.

It makes a huge difference, on principle. KK, or anyone else, at any level of hurling - are entitled to impartial refereeing.

barneystinson

ceegee wrote: »

He "let the game flow" by not penalising fouls, often when there was little or no advantage to the fouled team.

It was a great match but imo it was great in spite of the refs performance rather than because of it.

We'll agree to disagree so. Unless you disagree with that too

fed up sick and tired

Amprodude wrote: »

In other words blaming the referee isnt why KK didn't win today.

I don't think you're understanding something here - rightly or wrongly, there is a certain amount of belief in KK that BK has a bias against us.

So I think what you're reading here, again, rightly or wrongly - is informed by more than today's game.

I stand to be corrected, of course.

GFish

EunanMac wrote: »

Ah well, I suppose a draw means a big financial windfall for the GAA, but spare a thought for the families that can barely afford one big trip to Croker, never mind two.

Cynical much?

Any families there today will remember it forever as a fantastic event.
Any families who couldn't make it today have another chance - probably at less cost.

Spare us a thought - or tell us what exactly is your problem.

dastardly00

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It would be unfair to say that we deserved to win overall. Kilkenny to their credit missed chances also in the first half.

Next day will be another huge challenge and i would hope O'Shea will come up with some kind of a surprise. I have the greatest of time for Eoin Kelly as a Tipperary great and as a person but sad to say he offered nothing and was never going to offer anything today. We needed freshness and mobility and it would seem O'Shea used Eoin perhaps to get the cheer out of the Tipp crowd in response to the cheer that the Kilkenny crowd gave Henry. If were going down that route then its a road that will hit a firm dead end.

Forde done well when he came on and the game was setup for fresh legs. Denis Maher hasn't let Tipp down once this year when he has made appearances. The game was crying out for him. Why on earth we wasted that sub is beyond me and i hate to be so disrespectful to Eoin Kelly but at this stage its crazy why he was chosen over youth.
Id consider calling up an u21 if i was him or pe

I agree with you regarding Eoin Kelly. It's to see why he was brought on. I'm clutching at straws here, but maybe it was in case if Tipp got another penalty?

RoyalCelt

As a neutral I have to say the ref done very well and secondly only 2% of 230 people who took the thread pole called a draw. If the betting was anything close to that the bookies cleaned up. Odds were 10/1 for a draw.

Amprodude

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

I don't think you're understanding something here - rightly or wrongly, there is a certain amount of belief in KK that BK has a bias against us.

So I think what you're reading here, again, rightly or wrongly - is informed by more than today's game.

I stand to be corrected, of course.

You need to take off the black and amber glasses, he made one or two bad decisions but he also did the same to Tipp. It happens. Look at what the referee did to Mayo against Kerry last weekend? Happens all teams.

fed up sick and tired

Buddy Holly wrote: »

There were a couple of bad decisions on both sides (there always is with the speed of play) but I thought he let the game flow brilliantly making it the spectacle that it was.

We'll agree to disagree.

fed up sick and tired

Amprodude wrote: »

You need to take off the black and amber glasses, he made one or two bad decisions but he also did the same to Tipp. It happens. Look at what the referee did to Mayo against Kerry last weekend? Happens all teams.

Again, and to reiterate - it is not about this game in isolation. Which is precisely the point Eddie B is making. Though i wish he hadn't made it tonight.

But we will agree to disagree, I hope.

dastardly00

dastardly00 wrote: »

I agree with you regarding Eoin Kelly. It's to see why he was brought on. I'm clutching at straws here, but maybe it was in case if Tipp got another penalty?

You actually might be even on to something there. Really is hard to know what O'Shea was thinking. A baffling decision. Granted Eoin has vast experience in all Ireland finals having played in four but so does the Rattler Byrne. Do we give him a run out? Hate to be so disrespectful to Eoin but jesus like we're trying to win an all ireland here Eamon. Forget the sentiment.

citykat

Amprodude wrote: »

You need to take off the black and amber glasses, he made one or two bad decisions but he also did the same to Tipp. It happens. Look at what the referee did to Mayo against Kerry last weekend? Happens all teams.

He made more than one or two TBF. I don't buy into the Kelly conspiracy btw but his decision making had a crucial bearing on the game.

mrhat

Amprodude wrote: »

Doesn't make a difference. If KK were good enough they would have won today.

I agree that KK weren't good enough to shake of Tipp today & a draw was the fairest result. KK weren't punished for Kelly's wrong calls on this occasion as Tipp missed the chances.

But Eddie's point (which he said was the general opinion in KK) holds water. In the last 3 years KKs winning rate in matches officiated by B Kelly is 33% versus a winning rate of >90% with all other referees. Eddie's point is far from bizarre.

Borders no.2

I'd bank on James McGrath getting the replay. I'm not a major fan of Barry Kelly and I thought the last free was harsh. There were a couple of decisions on each side which could be argued but overall think he did a good job today.

On a separate point, its a good job the final wasn't outside Croke Park, some very unsure calls from the umpires. I don't know is it that with Hawkeye in place they don't want to risk making a tight decision or has Hawkeye undermined them to the extent that they begin to doubt themselves. Could it be at a stage in a couple of years where the score will show on the refs watch like in the soccer and the need for umpires will be removed at the highest level?

Amprodude

citykat wrote: »

He made more than one or two TBF. I don't buy into the Kelly conspiracy btw but his decision making had a crucial bearing on the game.

Kilkenny were up 4 points in 62 min. Richie Power had a chance to make it 5 and didn't. That was their chance and didn't take it. They had chances to win besides blaming the ref. The ref single handedly won the 2009 All Ireland for Kilkenny and many of the KK fans weren't complaining.

Amprodude

mrhat wrote: »

I agree that KK weren't good enough to shake of Tipp today & a draw was the fairest result. KK weren't punished for Kelly's wrong calls on this occasion as Tipp missed the chances.

But Eddie's point (which he said was the general opinion in KK) holds water. In the last 3 years KKs winning rate in matches officiated by B Kelly is 33% versus a winning rate of >90% with all other referees. Eddie's point is far from bizarre.

I think you are reading too much into Kelly. That theory is nonsense. Like I said earlier KK had plenty of chances to finish Tipp but didn't do it. Hardly Kelly's fault.

citykat

Amprodude wrote: »

Kilkenny were up 4 points in 62 min. Richie Power had a chance to make it 5 and didn't. That was their chance and didn't take it. They had chances to win besides blaming the ref. The ref single handedly handed the 2009 All Ireland to Kilkenny and many of the KK fans weren't complaining.

Agree on Power. Couldn't believe it at the time. Tipp could've won today with a very dubious free. This took nearly two minutes to take. Then blows up on the puck out. It's a very cynical way to officiate IMO.

RobertKK

https://twitter.com/vincentabyrne/status/508629223909900288
https://twitter.com/fink13/status/508631664705433600

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/oconnor-worried-referee-could-ruin-decider-284638.html

There is scepticism about Kelly in Kilkenny after he sent off Henry Shefflin for two yellow cards in last year’s All-Ireland quarter-final defeat to Cork, a dismissal which was later overturned.

Barry Kelly is consistent when he refs a Kilkenny game...

Browney7

citykat wrote: »

Agree on Power. Couldn't believe it at the time. Tipp could've won today with a very dubious free. This took nearly two minutes to take. Then blows up on the puck out. It's a very cynical way to officiate IMO.

That's GAA reffing in a way though. If bubbles scored you could be sure he'd have let the play develop from the puck out to see what happened. I'd have been stunned if he blew it up. Not saying it's right but it's the way it is all the way to club level.

Kelly must have thought Hogan was charging for the last free (rightly or wrongly - I don't think it was a free myself although it did look like he may have jumped but I think he was avoiding the Tipp man more than anything).

I felt Kelly got a lot of decisions right but he did get both pens wrong (21 yard frees - but he did consult his umpires but the conversation may have gone: BK "I thought it was a penalty", Mick the umpire "Suppose twas Barry", Grand penalty so). It was full blooded, knock out, do or die hurling at it's best. Great spectacle today

fed up sick and tired

Amprodude wrote: »

The ref single handedly won the 2009 All Ireland for Kilkenny.

Complete and utter drivel.

fed up sick and tired

Amprodude wrote: »

I think you are reading too much into Kelly. That theory is nonsense. Like I said earlier KK had plenty of chances to finish Tipp but didn't do it. Hardly Kelly's fault.

Why do you think too much is being read into Kelly ? Just because it suits you to do so, is it ?

Explain the percentages, please ?

GFish

Amprodude wrote: »

Only for KK getting goals they would have been in trouble.

That is truly insightful analysis.
Maybe you could be on the panel in 3 weeks if RTE or SKY have a vacancy?

savannahkat

Originally Posted by Amprodude View Post

Only for KK getting goals they would have been in trouble.

True and only for the goals we would have lost the Minor match as well so goals should be banned they ain't fair.

Brian017

And if Murphy had got down quicker and didn't let the ball roll under him Tipp would have been in trouble!

Shaque attack

Fantastic game of hurling. Thought Tipp missed a trick by bringing on Kelly. Standard was unreal though. 9 wides in total ffs!

Delighted with the draw because I'll be back in the country for the replay. much better than streaming it out in mumbai!

Clonmel1000

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

Complete and utter drivel.

bit like the sh!te being spouted by Brennan on TSG so.

keeponhurling

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

After what happened last year, they would have been in testing it all last week, making sure it was calibrated properly

Very nice of them

robbiezero

RobertKK wrote: »

https://twitter.com/vincentabyrne/status/508629223909900288
https://twitter.com/fink13/status/508631664705433600

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/oconnor-worried-referee-could-ruin-decider-284638.html



Barry Kelly is consistent when he refs a Kilkenny game...

Larkins years of diving came home to roost. No harm.

Moneymaker

So basically the last few pages have been KK fans bitching about the ref.

No change there so.

ellewood

Browney7 wrote: »

That's GAA reffing in a way though. If bubbles scored you could be sure he'd have let the play develop from the puck out to see what happened. I'd have been stunned if he blew it up. Not saying it's right but it's the way it is all the way to club level.

Kelly must have thought Hogan was charging for the last free (rightly or wrongly - I don't think it was a free myself although it did look like he may have jumped but I think he was avoiding the Tipp man more than anything).

I felt Kelly got a lot of decisions right but he did get both pens wrong (21 yard frees - but he did consult his umpires but the conversation may have gone: BK "I thought it was a penalty", Mick the umpire "Suppose twas Barry", Grand penalty so). It was full blooded, knock out, do or die hurling at it's best. Great spectacle today

Id doubt that very much considering he blew it up before as a point was going over the bar before

threeball

Browney7 wrote: »

That's GAA reffing in a way though. If bubbles scored you could be sure he'd have let the play develop from the puck out to see what happened. I'd have been stunned if he blew it up. Not saying it's right but it's the way it is all the way to club level.

Its the way most sports are reffed in fairness. You'd often see the soccer refs giving a team time to have one last attack, the only difference being that you're far less likely to score in soccer. That's what GAA games have vastly more exciting finishes.

FWIW I thought it was a very good game but not as good as many were making it out to be. A lot of the first touch's were poor and the fielding was next to non existent especially in the first half. The accuracy on both sides was sublime though.
I thought the Limerick KK game was better quality considering the conditions.

followmeup

Anybody see that program on setanta about referees a while back? Barry Kelly featured in one of them and I've got too to say he didn't inspire confidence!! He seems to too lose the head a bit, I've never seen a refereeing style quite like his and I've been hurling many years now!!

Mountainlad

All the statistic that Brennan came out with proves is the stastic that 100% of the time Kilkenny can not handle not winning.

Will watch it back but obviously with a few missed calls he did well. A statistic without context is useless. Hope Brennan was ate of it. A prime reason why people from participating counties shouldn't be allowed on. I was at the Leinster Final as well and the stick Barry Kelly was getting over nothing was shameful.

Om the game itself unbelievable match. Will be brief, on the phone. I wouldn't say the deserved to win as if they did they would have, but Tipp SHOULD have won. They left 5 goal chances on the field.

droppingball

Thought most calls in the game were marginal, no gripe with penalty/2, faceguard pull decisions but the rugby tackle on Larkin and free at the end were an absolute disgrace.

Problem is he is a good ref who made some poor calls a few years ago against Kilkenny and we have complained about him since with Eddie Keher and Eddie O Connor having a go at him in the media. It has left a bitter taste in Kellys mouth meaning the 50 50s always go against kilkenny when Kelly is referee. Now there are some poor refs like owens that we dont like but that is due to the fact that he is a poor ref as opposed to a bias against Kilkenny

droppingball

Thought most calls in the game were marginal, no gripe with penalty/2, faceguard pull decisions but the rugby tackle on Larkin and free at the end were an absolute disgrace.

Problem is he is a good ref who made some poor calls a few years ago against Kilkenny and we have complained about him since with Eddie Keher and Eddie O Connor having a go at him in the media. It has left a bitter taste in Kellys mouth meaning the 50 50s always go against kilkenny when Kelly is referee. Now there are some poor refs like owens that we dont like but that is due to the fact that he is a poor ref as opposed to a bias against Kilkenny

Mantis Toboggan

Was very surprised with Eddie Brennan on the Sunday game.

He came across as a very bitter man. If kilkenny don't win a game they always need someone to blame. Nothing was made of power kicking paddy Stapleton to the ground before the second kk goal.

I think Eddie needs to be removed from the panel for the replay. He's only embarrassing himself and I think rte would be right to drop him after his agenda setting and attack on Barry Kelly being totally out of line.

EunanMac

GFish wrote: »

Cynical much?

Any families there today will remember it forever as a fantastic event.
Any families who couldn't make it today have another chance - probably at less cost.

What's actually cynical is the ban on extra time when it suits.

When you count up everything, It costs the guts of 400 to bring a family of four to the final. Many people cannot afford to do that twice in close succession, and are placed in the position of having to tell their families, yes I know you were at the final and all the other games, but we can't afford to attend the replay.

The GAA change their rules all the time, I cannot see one valid reason for not allowing extra time in a final.

Dyr

Mountainlad wrote: »

All the statistic that Brennan came out with proves is the stastic that 100% of the time Kilkenny can not handle not winning.

No matter how much I admire them as a neutral, it's why I rarely want to see them win.

jjll

All finals should be finished on day imagine soccer world cup going to a replay big anti climax a draw and theres only one winner gaa coffers

Mike Guide 69

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

Give us some examples of his analysis on some games beggaring belief ?

Or tell me why the number of AI's he has is any way relevant ?

Eddie has a fair idea what he's talking about here, I'd say.

When he was throwing out the stats about the refs last performances that involved both Kilkenny and Tipp in previous matches , he was been a bit picky there, even Des Cahill thought it was a little pedantic.......

IrishAlice

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Was very surprised with Eddie Brennan on the Sunday game.

He came across as a very bitter man. If kilkenny don't win a game they always need someone to blame. Nothing was made of power kicking paddy Stapleton to the ground before the second kk goal.

I think Eddie needs to be removed from the panel for the replay. He's only embarrassing himself and I think rte would be right to drop him after his agenda setting and attack on Barry Kelly being totally out of line.

Eddie Brennan was voicing what the majority of Kilkenny supporters think about Barry Kelly. You can be guaranteed if it was Davy Fitz or Donal Og with their respective counties they would have done the same.

Anyway all this Barry Kelly talk is getting tiring. The match was an absolute battle built on hard work, determination and a never say die attitude from both sides and the brilliant effort from both sets of players is much more interesting a discussion than Barry Kelly.