House with un-finalised sale has been burgled

DesperateDan

This is an awkward one: My gf is in 2 months into the buying of a house off the banks through an auctioneers. Waiting on some paperwork etc., the house has been empty for about 2 years, and is in the middle of nowhere in the sticks.

Today we pulled up and the first thing we noticed was the boiler out on the front lawn, excellent! :pac:

The window was wide open, water everywhere on the front room pine floor from whatever was left in the boiler, press doors ripped off (missing). They must not have had the right tools and really did a crap job, pipes all twisted etc. And because it was left beside the front gate, they were most likely coming back to get it later.

Now my gf is obviously very upset about this, but the situation is a little more annoying because:
A) The house has no neighbours to keep an eye on the place.
The sale is not finalized, deposit is down, waiting on the bank to send something to the solicitor - meaning we don't know who is actually liable for the damage or any more damage (in all likelihood no-one is liable though).
C) They are probably coming back, and there is a €2000 stove in the house that would be mighty appetising if I was a little thief.

She's ringing her solicitor tomorrow, we padlocked the two old gates, but that wouldn't stop anyone, and I would say the act of us padlocking the gates is technically illegal anyway. So my real question is, if the stove is lifted tomorrow, and lets say more damage is done, windows smashed etc., should she be entitled to have that come off the price of the house? Or would the bank just tell her to take it at that price or leave it? We have no keys to the property (auctioneer has them), so technically we have no standing to try and protect the property and it's value right now.

Eric Cartman

Seems like the house was targeted because it was empty and a certain group of people needed copper to sell for whatever reason..

If your girlfriend still feels like continuing the sale id ask the seller to fix everything thats been damaged in the house.

Its impossible to know if the house was just robbed because it was abandoned, or a local group would be 'travelling' around there often .

if the house is local to where you currently live , it may be worth going by every few days to sweep up leaves, collect junk mail etc... until sale is complete (would have to be agreed with the current owner first) just to make it look lived in.

davo10

Until the sale is finalised, it is the property of the bank. You agreed a price based on condition of house when you viewed it, it is no longer in that condition. Either insist on bank restoring it to the condition it was in when you agreed to buy it or insist on a lower price for the property to take into account the extra you will now have to pay to fix the damage done. You are technically not even allowed to be in there until deal is complete so you can not be responsible for its security until you own it.

DublinDilbert

I had a conversation about this the other day. A friend is buying a property (deposit paid) and their solicitor advised them to take out house insurance on it, even though they don't own it yet. The solicitor was coming from if anything happens to the house you've paid a 10% deposit on it and can loose that.

I thought it was funny cause I didn't think you could take out insurance on something that you don't actually own, once of the principles of insurance. I can't insure my neighbours house encase it burns down etc...

DesperateDan

Cool thanks for the input guys I will get her to say that to the solicitor tomorrow about the property not being the same as it was when she agreed to the sale.

Yes Cartman (ya probably noticed now) the banks are the sellers so they are unlikely to shell out any money to fix up I believe.

davo10

DesperateDan wrote: »

Cool thanks for the input guys I will get her to say that to the solicitor tomorrow about the property not being the same as it was when she agreed to the sale.

Yes Cartman (ya probably noticed now) the banks are the sellers so they are unlikely to shell out any money to fix up I believe.

This may work to your benefit, the bank will not want to spend money but they will realise that if it went back on the market, in its present condition, it is worth less. Get a quote for the work and inform them.

Victor

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Seems like the house was targeted because it was empty and a certain group of people needed copper to sell for whatever reason..

...

Its impossible to know if the house was just robbed because it was abandoned, or a local group would be 'travelling' around there often

...

You don't know who removed the boiler, so don't speculate. For all we know it was the previous owner, retrieving what they see as 'their' property.

Moderator

---

Have you reported this to the Garda?

Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. All of the loss should fall on the vendor, but they will obviously try to minimise their losses, but asking for the same sales price.

DublinDilbert wrote: »

I had a conversation about this the other day. A friend is buying a property (deposit paid) and their solicitor advised them to take out house insurance on it, even though they don't own it yet. The solicitor was coming from if anything happens to the house you've paid a 10% deposit on it and can loose that.

The contract is enforceable when the 10% is paid, so you own the property - you just don't have possession of it yet.

I thought it was funny cause I didn't think you could take out insurance on something that you don't actually own, once of the principles of insurance. I can't insure my neighbours house encase it burns down etc...

You can insure something you don't own - what you need is an insurable interest.

3DataModem

DublinDilbert wrote: »

I had a conversation about this the other day. A friend is buying a property (deposit paid) and their solicitor advised them to take out house insurance on it, even though they don't own it yet. The solicitor was coming from if anything happens to the house you've paid a 10% deposit on it and can loose that.

I thought it was funny cause I didn't think you could take out insurance on something that you don't actually own, once of the principles of insurance. I can't insure my neighbours house encase it burns down etc...

You can't insure something you don't have an insurabke interest in. You have an interest once you sign contracts.

TheDriver

Victor wrote: »

The contract is complete when the 10% is paid, so you own the property - you just don't have possession of it yet.
.

I find this odd. I thought you are committing to a contract pending money being drawn down and everyone getting their s**t in order but ownership doesn't change until the closing date. So the 10% is only committing to purchasing the house as it was viewed and its still the vendors property and hence problem. Surely the OP could close and then launch proceedings to reclaim money for differences between the property now and the initial state.

davo10

Victor wrote: »

The contract is complete when the 10% is paid, so you own the property - you just don't have possession of it yet.

I'm not so sure about that one, there is still a way to go for both parties between contract signing and completion. You can still pull out of the sale all be it with the risk of severe penalty like loss of 10% deposit or even more if the bank sues but the deal is not complete and the deeds of ownership transferred nor the property registered, until completion.

OP does not own the property at the moment so is not responsible for its security nor damage which has occurred. Right now this is not the house they agreed to buy when paying their deposit, and the bank will have to acknowledge this on inspection. OP, your solicitor will take care of this by informing bank of what has happened, it will be up to you whether you want to proceed to completion as things stand or whether you insist on the house being returned to the condition agreed in the contract/get a reduced price. If you stall the completion the bank will be in limbo having signed the contract, you hold the upper hand in this.

DesperateDan

Yes we'll see later, if it was me I'd play hard ball and refuse to take the place unless it was fixed up. Gf is so worried the bank will just pull out all together and put it back up on the market that she wouldn't do that though

davo10

DesperateDan wrote: »

Yes we'll see later, if it was me I'd play hard ball and refuse to take the place unless it was fixed up. Gf is so worried the bank will just pull out all together and put it back up on the market that she wouldn't do that though

While you never know what a bank is going to do, they unlikely to want to go through the process again, particularly with a vandalised property. They will know that if they pull out, the house will be less appealing in its current condition plus they will be concerned that further damage will be done while they own it. Right now they probably want it off their books asap particularly as it is out in the country, it might be different if it was a 4bed in Dublin where they would be confident of a price increase and buyer demand. Get a quote, add another couple of €k for the hassle and put it to them, trust me, they would chase you for it if the rolls were reversed.

DesperateDan

Yeah I definitely agree with you there mate Fingers crossed!

DesperateDan

So the solicitor has basically said the security of the house is the responsibility of the vendor as we all suspected But they (the bank) may or may not actually care that the house is at risk and has been damaged, I guess because it's only small fry compared to the sorts of properties they deal with daily.

I believe he has emailed the bank directly to let them know the property has been damaged, and we will await their response I guess! He said leave the padlocks on, and wasn't even interested in talking to the (particularly useless) auctioneer. If it is damaged any more he said he would be expecting the price to be reduced too.

Sleepy

DesperateDan wrote: »

If it is damaged any more he said he would be expecting the price to be reduced too.

Hang on, if it's damaged "any more"?! It's already had extensive damage done to it so either (a) the bank need to have it repaired or (b) the price needs to drop to reflect the fact that thousands need to be spent to return it to the condition it was in when you went sale agreed.

Bepolite

I'd personally move in - no one need throw a conniption if you're buying it and who knows it might hurray along the bank.

Victor

Bepolite wrote: »

I'd personally move in - no one need throw a conniption if you're buying it and who knows it might hurray along the bank.

This would be a very bad idea. One could face charges of trespass and/or criminal damage (even if someone else did the damage, who do you think might get blamed?)

Bepolite

Victor wrote: »

This would be a very bad idea. One could face charges of trespass and/or criminal damage (even if someone else did the damage, who do you think might get blamed?)

Point taken.

Valentine1

Victor wrote: »

The contract is complete when the 10% is paid, so you own the property - you just don't have possession of it yet.

This is incorrect, the contract is not complete until 100% of the money is paid over and the deeds and keys received in exchange.

Victor wrote: »

You can insure something you don't own - what you need is an insurable interest.

One the contracts are signed and exchanged the purchaser has an insurable interest and they should insure they property.

OP you should speak to your solicitor.

Generally if contracts have been signed and exchanged the Purchaser can be required to go through with the sale regardless. If the Contracts haven't been signed a well advised purchaser would refuse to sign untill the damage has been put right.

Victor

Valentine1 wrote: »

This is incorrect, the contract is not complete until 100% of the money is paid over and the deeds and keys received in exchange.

I've changed 'complete' to 'enforceable'.

Valentine1

Victor wrote: »

I've changed 'complete' to 'enforceable'.

In that case you are entirely correct :cool:

Monife

As said above, once contracts are signed and exchanged and deposit is paid, the purchaser is required to take out insurance for the property, your solicitor should have advised you of this. The vendor is not liable for the damage and can refuse to do anything about it.

From my experience working in Property and Banking, it will all depend on the marketability of the house as to whether the Bank will consider reducing the price to cover the damage or rectifying the damage. If it is in a sought after area, it is likely that they will refuse. However, if the property has been on the market for quite some time with not a lot of interest, you may have a bargaining tool here.