Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

kryogen

adox wrote: »

He was asked about him and he said he tried him in midfield but couldn't fulfil the role he wanted him to play.

Didn't sound good.

Boggles the mind as to what role he is talking about, he might mean he doesnt trust him defensively which is all I could think of, but when you are in full control of possession and needing someone with quick feet and brains he would surely have been a good option to come on, not as if Januzaj is famed for his defensive ability.

Think Kags is on the way out by the looks of it.

Mr Alan

kryogen wrote: »

You must not watch the games so

Thats the tactic, blanket defence, let United knock it about in front of them, wait for the moment and counter attack.

May seem delusional to you, but that would hardly be surprising would it.

Do you watch all the United games? If you do then I find it hard to believe you hold that opinion, if you don't then you are hardly in a position to call anyone deluded since you don't have a notion what you are talking about

The tactic you see now is drop back, let us have the ball, watch as we do nothing.

The post I was responding to was seeming to indicate that Utd were really just lacking a clinical edge in the final third & Vidal wouldn't be the man to fix that. To even imply that is where Utd's problems are is hilarious to me.

Teams allow Utd have the ball because they know with the exception of a couple of players, there's **** all people who are in any way comfortable with the ball from the defence right through the midfield. Plus when teams get the ball, their football is usually more potent than Utds.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

The difference that Welbeck made when he came on today was massive. It was the exact same in pre-season, his pace changed the whole shape of the attack for the better.

Yes I agree welbeck made a minor differance but we still hardly produced one clear cut chance regardless of him coming on. To state he made a massive differance is an exaggeration. He adds pace but is still irratic in the final third.

brinty

So lads is the assumption of a bid for Vidal including a player going the other way being Kags being the player going the other way??
Much as I'd hope it's not true I think that could be it???

PhlegmyMoses

I also think that Welbeck is changing the game for us with his pace and direct running. Januzaj did the same last week.

The logical conclusion to this is that we need more pace in the attack. So one of Mata, RVP and Rooney would need to be dropped? Who do you go for? I'm leaning towards Rooney or RVP.

Spazdarn

brinty wrote: »

So lads is the assumption of a bid for Vidal including a player going the other way being Kags being the player going the other way??
Much as I'd hope it's not true I think that could be it???

Zero evidence of this...

TheTownie

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I also think that Welbeck is changing the game for us with his pace and direct running. Januzaj did the same last week.

The logical conclusion to this is that we need more pace in the attack. So one of Mata, RVP and Rooney would need to be dropped? Who do you go for? I'm leaning towards Rooney or RVP.

I'd be in favour of dropping one of those 3 too. Just hope LVG comes to the same conclusion soon.

yabadabado

As much as I like Kagawa and Chico I would have no problem if either or both of them left in part exchange for new blood in CM.
Neither player looks like they will get much playing time this year.

SheldonC17

The big problem we have is the huge amount of dead wood that needs clearing. Players like cleverly, young, Anderson etc have not and will make any impact on games for us and should be sold to blood young/new players. However I think we are close to having a strong 11 if we could sign another cb and cm, preferably benatia or hummels type who be guaranteed starter. Van will switch to a 4-3-3 with di maria ( fingers crossed ) and januzaj wide with Rooney, Rvp rotating in the centre. That leaves a midfield of mata, herrara and a another, vidal preferably but if not blind, de jong, carrick would be fine! I think that eleven would match any in the league.

JerCotter7

SheldonC17 wrote: »

The big problem we have is the huge amount of dead wood that needs clearing. Players like cleverly, young, Anderson etc have not and will make any impact on games for us and should be sold to blood young/new players. However I think we are close to having a strong 11 if we could sign another cb and cm, preferably benatia or hummels type who be guaranteed starter. Van will switch to a 4-3-3 with di maria ( fingers crossed ) and januzaj wide with Rooney, Rvp rotating in the centre. That leaves a midfield of mata, herrara and a another, vidal preferably but if not blind, de jong, carrick would be fine! I think that eleven would match any in the league.

And leave out Di Maria? Realistically one of Mata, Rooney or RVP will have to be dropped. That has to be Rooney surely.

SheldonC17

JerCotter7 wrote: »

And leave out Di Maria? Realistically one of Mata, Rooney or RVP will have to be dropped. That has to be Rooney surely.

As stated above, di maria and januzaj wide, Rooney, Rvp rotating. Would alos like to see Rooney play midfield if needed as he is much better than what was on offer today.

Spazdarn

SheldonC17 wrote: »

The big problem we have is the huge amount of dead wood that needs clearing. Players like cleverly, young, Anderson etc have not and will make any impact on games for us and should be sold to blood young/new players. However I think we are close to having a strong 11 if we could sign another cb and cm, preferably benatia or hummels type who be guaranteed starter. Van will switch to a 4-3-3 with di maria ( fingers crossed ) and januzaj wide with Rooney, Rvp rotating in the centre. That leaves a midfield of mata, herrara and a another, vidal preferably but if not blind, de jong, carrick would be fine! I think that eleven would match any in the league.

Even if that were the case, our defense would most certainly not match any of the top teams

GSPfan

JerCotter7 wrote: »

And leave out Di Maria? Realistically one of Mata, Rooney or RVP will have to be dropped. That has to be Rooney surely.

Its not going to be. He is captain.

JerCotter7

SheldonC17 wrote: »

As stated above, di maria and januzaj wide, Rooney, Rvp rotating. Would alos like to see Rooney play midfield if needed as he is much better than what was on offer today.

Picked you up wrong so. Thought you had Rooney and RVP playing together.

GSPfan wrote: »

Its not going to be. He is captain.

True but I wonder will he keep it with RVP now back in the team.

SheldonC17

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Even if that were the case, our defense would most certainly not match any of the top teams

Wouldn't be too bad, top class goalie in de gea, Rafael deserves another season at right back, A new centre back is a must to partner Jones/ Rojo / Evans all who are capable defenders. Shaw left back who has great potential but is still a risk at this stage.

kryogen

JerCotter7 wrote: »

True but I wonder will he keep it with RVP now back in the team.

Of course he will, you don't name someone club captain just for a couple of weeks

Hank Scorpio

kryogen wrote: »

Of course he will, you don't name someone club captain just for a couple of weeks

Which makes it even more worrying Fletcher was named vice captain

kryogen

nuxxx wrote: »

Which makes it even more worrying Fletcher was named vice captain

Vice captain or not I don't expect Fletch to be sold anytime soon, do you? Vice captain is different in fairness, Fletch knows the club inside out, has been here since he was a teen. He is a symbol to a lot of the players and basically a club ambassador due to his battle with illness.

I have no fears of him being undroppable due to the title anyway. Not in the same ball park as Rooney

Hank Scorpio

kryogen wrote: »

Vice captain or not I don't expect Fletch to be sold anytime soon, do you? Vice captain is different in fairness, Fletch knows the club inside out, has been here since he was a teen. He is a symbol to a lot of the players and basically a club ambassador due to his battle with illness.

I have no fears of him being undroppable due to the title anyway. Not in the same ball park as Rooney

Nah I agree with you, but it just makes me worry Van Gaal sees him as an important first team player. It might end up being true though unless we sign some more players

Mezcita

Pro. F wrote: »

Did you watch the game today? Sunderland parked the bus.
Did you watch the game against Swansea? They parked the bus too.
A lot of teams parked the bus against United last season and breaking them down was definitely an issue.

Don't really see how their 11 shots to United's 10 can be described as parking the bus. United had 55.4% possession.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/live/match/313404/stats

DrPhilG

Seen a few mentions of the fact that Rafael has been fit for a few weeks. Any idea why he hasn't been in? Is it a fitness issue? Surely he'd be a better option at RWB than Valencia???

Neeson

Fletcher might well be getting on because they feel bad for him when he was out for so long with that problem in his insides. On the other hand there is no one else to replace him.

Giggsy11

We need a top class winger as badly as a CM and a CB. I don't think we will play 3-5-2 for the entire season, we will shift to 4-3-3 once we sign a class wingers.

Our midfield options Carrick and Herrera >>>> our winger options Valencia, Young. (Not sure where Januzaj will end up)



Saying that we need CM too for sure but can't understand few posters (including other fans) moaning about signing Di Maria. He is a world class winger and we don't have one, not to forget he was superb playing in 4-3-3 last season.

Oh my god those stats. He looks like he contributed more than the other three combined.

Leroy42

Jebus, how any body on here can possibly say they are going to miss Nani, looking at the stats and indeed the evidence on the pitch the last few years!

I'm not even going to bother withthe other two

Delboy5

I think its been said by many before, to play 3 at the back you need top class wing backs, we dont have them!

I think after his comments today we'll make a strong push for Vidal this week along with Di Maria and LVG will revert back to his favoured 4-3-3....

redbaron_99

Delboy5 wrote: »

I think its been said by many before, to play 3 at the back you need top class wing backs, we dont have them!

I think after his comments today we'll make a strong push for Vidal this week along with Di Maria and LVG will revert back to his favoured 4-3-3....

Totally agree with this. I'm convinced we'll see a couple more players brought in this week - not blind faith, more to do with how calm LVG was about the Swansea and Sunderland performances. Struck me as a man who knew this team would be undergoing some major changes over the next few weeks.

Think Di Maria will be used primarily on the left side of a midfield three. It's quite exciting to think of him carrying the ball on that side, with Shaw backing him up.

Lord TSC

Mr Alan wrote: »

The post I was responding to was seeming to indicate that Utd were really just lacking a clinical edge in the final third & Vidal wouldn't be the man to fix that. To even imply that is where Utd's problems are is hilarious to me.

I am in no way to downplay the massive problem in our midfield, but I would absolutely say that we appear, based on watching the last two games as well as seeing the trend last season too, have a problem putting the ball into the back of the net. Against Sunderland, we could only put one goal away; a goal that was hugely against the run of play and e never looked like scoring a second.

I never meant to imply, btw, that Vidal wasn't the man to fix that problem. I was asking was he. I ask this because, honestly, I've not seen much beyond a few fleeting matches and a fair few Youtube videos, and was asking a question seeking the knowledge of people more knowledgeable than me.

More than anything right now, we need a player who can carve open the other team when they've parked the bus, whether that player plays in central midfield or out on the wing.Given our need of a CM, it makes sense to try and combine the two, but if DiMaria can do it from the wing, grand so. A lot of our play seems to rotate around getting the ball out to the wing, so I have zero problems with getting in a WC winger if that is the focus. It was a simple question though of if Vidal was that sort of player too.

FutureGuy

A win against Burnley and then we have a 2 week break for internationals when we can get a few injured players back on their feet. I'd take it.

Hopefully a few new signings before we take on QPR at home. They looked shocking against Spurs so hopefully we can get the confidence and the players back.

glued

Hard to belive that we will finish fourth carrying the likes of Cleverley and Fletcher in midfield.

Really need to just break the bank for Vidal at this stage.

magnumbud

glued wrote: »

Hard to belive that we will finish fourth carrying the likes of Cleverley and Fletcher in midfield.

Really need to just break the bank for Vidal at this stage.

when carrick and herrera are fit they will be first choice. i would also assume we will sign a CM but get the feeling it wont be vidal. probably de jong who will be a stop gap until van gaal can get strootman hopefully in january but maybe next summer

Mitch Connor

So, what are the hopes/expectations for the next week?

I'm saying Di Maria, Blind and either Vidal or De Jong - making it a pretty good summer, though lacking a top CB being brought in, so I still feel we are short there.

In terms of out goings.... feck knows.

I would guess there are good chances some of the following will leave:

Lindegaard
Anderson
Kagawa
Cleverley
Welbeck
Hernandez

I personally wouldn't sell Cleverley or Welbeck. Welbeck because I think he can really offer us something. Cleverley because I simply don't think we can afford to offload a midfielder.

Hoping it is going to be a busy week. Fingers crossed.

Hopefully, in the midfield pecking order is going to be something like -> Vidal, Herrera, Carrick, Fellaini (Sigh), Fletcher (Sigh), Cleverley (Sigh). I don't think any of the young CMs at the club - Harrop, Pearson, Rothwell - are ready to step up. If we were to get Blind as well as Vidal or De Jong, I could see Cleverley getting moved on, as Blind will cover midfield. Though Blind himself seems an odd one having just added Rojo to cover LB/LWB/CB.

GSPfan

Genuine question here about who starts in a 4 3 3 if we sign DiMaria and maybe a CM like Vidal.

De Gea
Rafael Jones Evans Shaw
Herrera Mata Vidal
Januzaj Rooney DiMaria

Would that be the most likely first 11 if everyone is fit and its a major game? RVP is likely to be benched if we are honest as Rooney is now a certain starter as captain and he doesn't offer much out wide.

Mata being part of a midfield 3 but further forward than the other 2. DiMaria and Januzaj providing the width and cutting inside when needed.

See it really is starting to feel like he is using the 352 formation only to get RVP Rooney and Mata in the same team. I wonder how long that will last.

KH25

Very much hoping that after yesterday LVG demanded signings immediately.

Cleverley young and Vakencia have no place playing for Manchester United. They wouldn't have a place in any team in the top 6 arguably.

Young and Valencia as wing backs is dreadful. Neither can defend well at all and they offer nothing up front (especially Valencia).

Fletcher was dire but to be honest I don't expect much from him after his illness. The fact he's even playing is amazing. He's the kind of personality needed in the dressing room but he should be nowhere near first choice.

SlickRic

after RVP's post-match interview on BBC, I'm more surprised than ever that he's not captain tbh.

Leroy42

Why the love for Wellback. He is a trier no doubt, but he is really limited and not anywhere near the class we need. He can give us a dig out, but is far from the level we should be expecting. He has had his chances in the 1st team and overall failed to deliver. Time to ship him out and give another prospect a chance

Mitch Connor

KH25 wrote: »

Very much hoping that after yesterday LVG demanded signings immediately.

Cleverley young and Vakencia have no place playing for Manchester United. They wouldn't have a place in any team in the top 6 arguably.

Young and Valencia as wing backs is dreadful. Neither can defend well at all and they offer nothing up front (especially Valencia).

Fletcher was dire but to be honest I don't expect much from him after his illness. The fact he's even playing is amazing. He's the kind of personality needed in the dressing room but he should be nowhere near first choice.

Has been reported he had a meeting with the Glazers/Woodward late last week. I reckon the push for Di Maria (and others) has been renewed on the back of that meeting, rather than the result/performance yesterday.

dahat

SlickRic wrote: »

after RVP's post-match interview on BBC, I'm more surprised than ever that he's not captain tbh.

I wonder was it written into Rooney contract that he was to be made captain when Vidic left?

Lucas Hood

Assuming we sign nobody else except Di Maria.

De Gea
Rafael Evans Rojo Shaw
Herrera Carrick
Januzaj Mata Di Maria
RVP/Rooney


One of Rvp/Rooney has to miss out imo.

GSPfan

SlickRic wrote: »

after RVP's post-match interview on BBC, I'm more surprised than ever that he's not captain tbh.

Van Gaal mentioned in the US that his captain has to play. And we all know RVP gets injured or needs to be rested.

dahat

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Assuming we sign nobody else except Di Maria.

De Gea
Rafael Evans Rojo Shaw
Herrera Carrick
Januzaj Mata Di Maria
RVP/Rooney


One of Rvp/Rooney has to miss out imo.

Or Mata if he drops Rooney to the 10 role in tough games, City away etc

advertsfox

Given Welbecks performance from when he came on and the pace he added to the game, I imagine LVG gave him a detailed description of what he really wants from him - I can't see him leaving us and even though I don't think he's going to be getting full time football - he's a good sub to have at the ready.

Mitch Connor

GSPfan wrote: »

Genuine question here about who starts in a 4 3 3 if we sign DiMaria and maybe a CM like Vidal.

De Gea
Rafael Jones Evans Shaw
Herrera Mata Vidal
Januzaj Rooney DiMaria

Would that be the most likely first 11 if everyone is fit and its a major game? RVP is likely to be benched if we are honest as Rooney is now a certain starter as captain and he doesn't offer much out wide.

Mata being part of a midfield 3 but further forward than the other 2. DiMaria and Januzaj providing the width and cutting inside when needed.

See it really is starting to feel like he is using the 352 formation only to get RVP Rooney and Mata in the same team. I wonder how long that will last.

LVG, according to himself, has two main variations of 433, with the 3 in the middle being the difference. The point player can be either defensive or offensive.

I would reckon a first choice midfield 3 would be either

---

Carrick
Herrera

---

New Signing
Or
Herrera

---

New Signing

---

Mata

it is the front 3 that will be most intersting. I know he likes it to be two wingers and a forward, but I wonder if, based on the United squad, he might go for an asymmetrical formation with two forwards and one winger. Di Maria one side with RVP central and Rooney basically along side him but allowed to roam. Width, on the right, could come from Herrera and/or Rafael for example.

GSPfan

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Assuming we sign nobody else except Di Maria.

De Gea
Rafael Evans Rojo Shaw
Herrera Carrick
Januzaj Mata Di Maria
RVP/Rooney


One of Rvp/Rooney has to miss out imo.

Thats pretty much how I see it too. It might take a few months to get there but I see this being the formation and team we end up with. Injuries at the back will chop and change the line up. Subtract Carrick and add a Vidal or Khedeira and we're in business.

Mitch Connor

advertsfox wrote: »

Given Welbecks performance from when he came on and the pace he added to the game, I imagine LVG gave him a detailed description of what he really wants from him - I can't see him leaving us and even though I don't think he's going to be getting full time football - he's a good sub to have at the ready.

I agree - I can only assume Welbeck may leave because he wants to be first choice and both he and LVG have acknowledged that he won't be first choice at United. It has to be that because I just see Welbeck as far too useful to United and a number of formations/styles LVG may want to play for it to be LVG wanting him gone.

GSPfan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

LVG, according to himself, has two main variations of 433, with the 3 in the middle being the difference. The point player can be either defensive or offensive.

I would reckon a first choice midfield 3 would be either

---

Carrick
Herrera

---

New Signing
Or
Herrera

---

New Signing

---

Mata

it is the front 3 that will be most intersting. I know he likes it to be two wingers and a forward, but I wonder if, based on the United squad, he might go for an asymmetrical formation with two forwards and one winger. Di Maria one side with RVP central and Rooney basically along side him but allowed to roam. Width, on the right, could come from Herrera and/or Rafael for example.

As much as I liked the look of the 352 in pre season, its not cutting the mustard in competitive games and the 433 options you outlined seem like the way to go.

Zico

I've noticed how Rafael seems to have become one our better defenders since he hasn't been playing.:p

Add a right back to the list of players badly needed.

KH25

GSPfan wrote: »

As much as I liked the look of the 352 in pre season, its not cutting the mustard in competitive games and the 433 options you outlined seem like the way to go.

3-5-2 could work with the right players. Unfortunately we don't have them. Looking at yesterday's team it was obvious we would struggle. Our wing backs are a joke and our midfield was shockingly weak. Replace those 4 players with quality and 3-5-2 would work better.

GSPfan

Zico wrote: »

I've noticed how Rafael seems to have become one our better defenders since he hasn't been playing.:p

Add a right back to the list of players badly needed.

Apart from regular injuries I don't really have a problem with Rafael. And Valencia looks like he is now a defender due to Van Gaal mentioning it several times so I guess right back is covered for now.

Mitch Connor

GSPfan wrote: »

As much as I liked the look of the 352 in pre season, its not cutting the mustard in competitive games and the 433 options you outlined seem like the way to go.

I think we played well, offensively in presason and are playing poorly now. I don't think it is the formation that is the problem. IMO, the players just aren't playing as well as they did in pre-season. LVG has implied this himself, saying they appear to have lost all the confidence they were showing in pre-season - pointing to the poor performance vs Valencia as a killer.