Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Pro. F

titan18 wrote: »

Name the last good youth player to come through to our first team? No one expects the likes of Scholes, Beckham, Giggs, Neville, Butt etc to all come through in one go again, but we've really had nothing come into the side.

Youth products progressing into the first team is a rare thing at all the top PL clubs.

irishfeen

Can we just forget about last night so lads - Deal ... 'Twas only the s.hitty league cup anyway.

So who's Ed signing today?

MagicMarker

Welbeck came from the youth team.

redbaron_99

MrMac84 wrote: »

Can ya embed a few tweets?

the stories are coming from the Italian newspapers, or so it seems.

Irishcrx

dor843088 wrote: »

The one thing im most disappointed in is when lvg took over I was convinced there would be I shipping out of the deadwood poisonous players at old Trafford but it seems not to have materialised , for what reason I am bewildered. Id say there is more of a talent gap between the likes of rvp and cleverly than there is between cleverly and an amateur.

I don't think clubs are exactly lining up to buy them which is probably part of the problem, but I do expect some to leave this week.

Anderson is terrible , absolutely rubbish last night has no business in a Man Utd jersey. Hernandez was woefull as well, his crossing is really poor and his general play , great finisher in and around the box but everything else is well below par, there's far too many players on decent wages that need to go and never be seen play for the club again.

The only good thing I saw last night in that embarrasment was James Wilson , at least when he came on he tested the goalkeeper and looked like he wanted to win/score , I'd have him coming into the first team now this season ahead of Javier and Danny , one of them needs to kick on now..

irishfeen

redbaron_99 wrote: »

the stories are coming from the Italian newspapers, or so it seems.

United running an exceptionally tight ship this year - giving away absolutely nothing ... Every leak coming from the other side leaving the British press scratching their head ... What a difference 12 months makes.

Pro. F

MagicMarker wrote: »

Welbeck came from the youth team.

People will argue with you that he isn't in the first team (technically true) and that he's not good (laughable) and then it will head down the path of slating players because they'd rather respond to poor results emotionality than rationally.

Past30Now

An abysmal performance last night, but it will be forgotten about very quickly if we win this weekend. The problem isn't losing a match, it was the manner of the loss. It indicates a huge hole in confidence within the team, and a great deal of confusion with the system. LVG can fix that but it will take time.

Anderson should be released if no one comes in for him. Whatever it costs, he can't be allowed to pollute the squad any longer.

Delboy5

Ladyman and Ogden going with Vidal now too....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...medium=twitter

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...lion-deal.html

Pro. F

Irishcrx wrote: »

I don't think clubs are exactly lining up to buy them which is probably part of the problem, but I do expect some to leave this week.

Anderson is terrible , absolutely rubbish last night has no business in a Man Utd jersey. Hernandez was woefull as well, his crossing is really poor and his general play , great finisher in and around the box but everything else is well below par, there's far too many players on decent wages that need to go and never be seen play for the club again.

The only good thing I saw last night in that embarrasment was James Wilson , at least when he came on he tested the goalkeeper and looked like he wanted to win/score , I'd have him coming into the first team now this season ahead of Javier and Danny , one of them needs to kick on now..

The fact that you are judging a goal poacher on his crossing ability should tell you where the problem really lies.

Tom.D.BJJ

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Watch as Anderson bosses the **** out of the game and then takes a 3 month injury in the 70th minute.

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Sums up my feeling from last night.

What done is done. Onwards.

redbaron_99

irishfeen wrote: »

United running an exceptionally tight ship this year - giving away absolutely nothing ... Every leak coming from the other side leaving the British press scratching their head ... What a difference 12 months makes.

Yes, it's a very positive change and I think it helps in actually landing the targets.

I really think the Vidal story has legs now. I've refused to be drawn into this saga, but right now I'm thinking it really could happen - and soon.

Ed The Equalizer

Delboy5 wrote: »

Ladyman and Ogden going with Vidal now too....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...medium=twitter

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...lion-deal.html

Both those pages deleted in my browser

RayCun

titan18 wrote: »

Name the last good youth player to come through to our first team? No one expects the likes of Scholes, Beckham, Giggs, Neville, Butt etc to all come through in one go again, but we've really had nothing come into the side.

name the last good player to come through the Chelsea youth system. The City youth system. The Liverpool youth system. The Spurs system.

Delboy5

Ill try again.

Ladyman
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2735409/Manchester-United-talks-Juventus-30m-rated-Arturo-Vidal.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Ogden
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/11056019/ngel-di-Maria-signs-for-Manchester-United-in-59.7-million-deal.html

irishfeen

"@Elko_B: Overmars: 'There is some movement around Blind, people are enquiring here and there. But there's no contact with MUFC' (Telegraaf) ..."

Must be on of our "24hr" signings... C'mon Ed do your stuff

dor843088

Pro. F wrote: »

People will argue with you that he isn't in the first team (technically true) and that he's not good (laughable) and then it will head down the path of slating players because they'd rather respond to poor results emotionality than rationally.

RayCun wrote: »

name the last good player to come through the Chelsea youth system. The City youth system. The Liverpool youth system. The Spurs system.

Could be argued city and chelsea are money spunkers so youths got no chance. The other two , fair point.

D-FENS

irishfeen wrote: »

Can we just forget about last night so lads - Deal ... 'Twas only the s.hitty league cup anyway.

A ****ty cup that was always good for giving fringe players an opportunity, plus with no CL and a real challenge to make it back into the top 4, beggars can’t be choosers in terms of getting wins back under their belt and gaining confidence.
Plus getting hammered by a 3rd tier team is never good, everyone at Utd should be streets ahead of MK Dons…

Lovely Bloke

Is Sterling not from the youths, or is he similar to Januzaj? Bought in youth.

Lovely Bloke

D-FENS wrote: »

A ****ty cup that was always good for giving fringe players an opportunity

The fringe players were given an opportunity.

The fúcked it up though.

Lucas Hood

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Is Sterling not from the youths, or is he similar to Januzaj? Bought in youth.

Bought from QPR a few years back.

advertsfox

Just rewatched the highlights - every single goal was caused by 1 shockingly poor pass that was intercepted and took advantage of.

Even though we were very poor, MK Dons took all 4 of their finishes extremely well - the kind of goals I'd be very happy to see us score.

homerjay2005

Well the swansea debacle kicked our transfer policy so in that sense, that defeat is tolerable. If last night is the final straw for many of those players, which it should be, and it leads to one push for new players like Vidal, then it will be tolerable also.

Lord TSC

The fringe players basically made sure themselves that they won't play much till at least January when the FA Cup starts up. If Welbeck, Hernandez, Anderson et al had much hope of getting games on at least a semi-regular basis this season, they won't this morning.

D-FENS

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

The fringe players were given an opportunity.

The fúcked it up though.

Indeed, and f*ck knows when the likes of Powell or Janko will get a chance again now, hence why the competition has its uses.

kstand

Lord TSC wrote: »

The fringe players basically made sure themselves that they won't play much till at least January when the FA Cup starts up. If Welbeck, Hernandez, Anderson et al had much hope of getting games on at least a semi-regular basis this season, they won't this morning.

This in the long run could prove to be a very good thing.
The only outfield player that could walk back into that dressing room with his held head high (outside of Kagawa) was young Wilson.

I'm wondering this morning if we need to dip into the market for a new striker. Hernandez could be off and looks a shadow of his former self and Welbeck is not up to it and never will be. Its either give young Wilson a promotion (which I would be sorely tempted to do) or go and look at whats in the market. RVP is injury prone and you can rest assured Rooney will be missing as well at some stage.

irishfeen

D-FENS wrote: »

A ****ty cup that was always good for giving fringe players an opportunity, plus with no CL and a real challenge to make it back into the top 4, beggars can’t be choosers in terms of getting wins back under their belt and gaining confidence.
Plus getting hammered by a 3rd tier team is never good, everyone at Utd should be streets ahead of MK Dons…

Ya but I'm trying my best to make the best out of last nights debacle ... Onwards and upwards

kstand

D-FENS wrote: »

Indeed, and f*ck knows when the likes of Powell or Janko will get a chance again now, hence why the competition has its uses.

In fairness, Powell was taken off at 1-0 and outside of Evans mistake for the goal, the game was even enough. What happened after was not his fault. Powell was the only one who looked like he might score.

Lord TSC

kstand wrote: »

I'm wondering this morning if we need to dip into the market for a new striker. Hernandez could be off and looks a shadow of his former self and Welbeck is not up to it and never will be. Its either give young Wilson a promotion (which I would be sorely tempted to do) or go and look at whats in the market. RVP is injury prone and you can rest assured Rooney will be missing as well at some stage.

I think it will be a priority next summer (which is why I think we need Vidal finished this one).

RVP and Rooney will both be a year older and are on the declining portion of their careers, and I simply don't see Welbeck or Hernandez as ever being the first choice striker for United. Wilson, for all his potential, is still a while off being at a stage where we can judge what level he'll be at (star, back up, deadwood).

I'd love to see a top level striker come in NOW to bed in, but I can't see us going after another player of top level proporitions, nor can I see any striker like that wanting to play bacup to Rooney and RVP this season when we have limited gametime already. I think next summer, we're going to need to look for a 25-ish year old striker at the top of his game, a Costa or a Lewandowski (if they hadn't moved), while phasing out RVP and (personal wish here) moving on Rooney.

Lucas Hood

A lot of the players last night seem to be getting an easy ride because they're "young" I don't buy that Keane 21 & Vermijl 22 that's not that young imo. Young isn't an excuse for being not good enough

Pro. F

Lord TSC wrote: »

The fringe players basically made sure themselves that they won't play much till at least January when the FA Cup starts up. If Welbeck, Hernandez, Anderson et al had much hope of getting games on at least a semi-regular basis this season, they won't this morning.

The responsibility for this lies on the manager, not the players. When it is PL opposition that are getting the results then it is conceivable that the problem is a lack of quality. But getting hockeyed by a League 1 side? That is down to how the manager selected and organised the team.

He's new in the job and he's trying to make a lot of changes, he just pushed it too far last night.

RobertKK

redbaron_99 wrote: »

La Stampa and Gazetta today:

"Today's La Stampa also reports that the agent was in England yesterday, reasons for alarm, La Stampa says United is ready to make a bid!"

#GdS: Yesterday, Vidal's agent Fernando Felicevich was in Manchester, while the player exited Juve's training ground avoiding the fans.

#GdS: There are talks that Vidal has already agreed a 5-year contract with Manchester which will see him earn 8m euros/year.

Does look like movement in this area at last. Maybe giving the knee as much time as possible before moving for him, and could easily have personal deals done with Vidal through his agent, so felt safe to leave it as late as possible knowing he wants the move.

Hopefully he is signed and the countdown clock on Cleverley's United career is started.

I do find a midfield three of Di Maria, Vidal and Herrera to be very exciting.
Lets hope it happens.

jameshayes

Barcelona must have every hand in every pocket... they've announced another signing today..

RobertKK

Pro. F wrote: »

The responsibility for this lies on the manager, not the players. When it is PL opposition that are getting the results then it is conceivable that the problem is a lack of quality. But getting hockeyed by a League 1 side? That is down to how the manager selected and organised the team.

He's new in the job and he's trying to make a lot of changes, he just pushed it too far last night.

He needed a couple of more senior players in the team.

Who knows his thinking, maybe concerned about injuries given how brittle the team has been.
But we don't have a lot of matches in reality for the season for he could have risked it a little more.
Oh well, lets hope for a good FA cup compared to the shambles of earlier this year.

redbaron_99

RobertKK wrote: »

Does look like movement in this area at last. Maybe giving the knee as much time as possible before moving for him, and could easily have personal deals done with Vidal through his agent, so felt safe to leave it as late as possible knowing he wants the move.

Hopefully he is signed and the countdown clock on Cleverley's United career is started.

I do find a midfield three of Di Maria, Vidal and Herrera to be very exciting.
Lets hope it happens.

Yeah, I'd agree with all that. It would make sense to be patient and see how his fitness goes.

That midfield three would be outstanding. The days of slow passing would be at an end

yermandan

Yeah SportWitness and JUVE4LIFE (reliable Juve a/c) both reporting positive Vidal news for us.

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF JEHOVAH

kippy

RayCun wrote: »

name the last good player to come through the Chelsea youth system. The City youth system. The Liverpool youth system. The Spurs system.

I suppose the question is why spend the money on youth at all.....

RobertKK

jameshayes wrote: »

Barcelona must have every hand in every pocket... they've announced another signing today..

Desperation with the transfer ban.

ericzeking

Pro. F wrote: »

The responsibility for this lies on the manager, not the players. When it is PL opposition that are getting the results then it is conceivable that the problem is a lack of quality. But getting hockeyed by a League 1 side? That is down to how the manager selected and organised the team.

He's new in the job and he's trying to make a lot of changes, he just pushed it too far last night.

This is so bang on. Discussion should end here.

Move on to the next signing now :pac:

Nalz

RobertKK wrote: »

Desperation with the transfer ban.

When does this ban kick in? must be near 10 transfers for them now

Coat22

What a f*cking embarrassing result (and performance) that was. Right up there with anything in the last 12 months however it did at least have some upside:

Confirmation that Johnny Evans is not and never will be a first team CB at Manchester United. Hopefully the last 2 weeks have laid to rest the claims that Evans & Smalling are of sufficient standard to be a first team pick? Tell me people on here still think differently and I shall cry. I doubt LVG does. Jones has shown the best form of the 3 and has by far the most potential - make or break year for him.

Chico has lost it. Sad but true. Time to move on.

Wellbeck, for all his pace, never had it and needs to move on.

Nick Powell could have it and should be kept on at the club and given his chance. Not a first choice CM but a better option than whats playing currently.

Kagawa is IMO worth keeping. If Mata gets injured he's a natural replacement.

Janko could be worth another look. I thought he did ok in the first half last night, not sure why it was him who came off but considering our options at RB he is worth keeping at the club rather than loaning out.

For all our spending we still need a CM and at least one CB. Don't expect we'll get both but at least one is absolutely needed in the next 5 days. Don't need Hummels / Vidal etc but an improvement on what options are there shouldn't be hard to find.

Al Capwned

Pro. F wrote: »

The responsibility for this lies on the manager, not the players. When it is PL opposition that are getting the results then it is conceivable that the problem is a lack of quality. But getting hockeyed by a League 1 side? That is down to how the manager selected and organised the team.

He's new in the job and he's trying to make a lot of changes, he just pushed it too far last night.

While I agree with you that there is a lot of blame that needs to be attached to the selection last night, I think the players (senior ones more so) should be criticised for their performance last night.

Another poster said earlier that it should be impossible to put out a United team that would get turned over so badly by a League One side, and that's bang on.

The players involved and the manager need to accept that they weren't anywhere near being up to scratch...

magnumbud

kstand wrote: »

This in the long run could prove to be a very good thing.
The only outfield player that could walk back into that dressing room with his held head high (outside of Kagawa) was young Wilson.

I'm wondering this morning if we need to dip into the market for a new striker. Hernandez could be off and looks a shadow of his former self and Welbeck is not up to it and never will be. Its either give young Wilson a promotion (which I would be sorely tempted to do) or go and look at whats in the market. RVP is injury prone and you can rest assured Rooney will be missing as well at some stage.

i'd say perrera too but hes another no 10 so whens he gonna get near the team

RayCun

kippy wrote: »

I suppose the question is why spend the money on youth at all.....

As pointed out above, Welbeck came through the youth system. If he's sold for 15m, that alone probably covers 2/3 years of the academy cost. Most years there are other sales, much less income, but keeps things ticking over. And there's always the chance that a player will break through...

Pro. F

yermandan wrote: »

Yeah SportWitness and JUVE4LIFE (reliable Juve a/c) both reporting positive Vidal news for us.

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF JEHOVAH

I don't see anything positive reported by Sportwitness on Vidal, on their Twitter or on their site.

Lovely Bloke

Perhaps the players that LVG have said can leave just weren't arsed last night - why would Welbeck, for example, make anything more than a token effort, risk injury which would mess up any potential move, which would then see him playing reserve football until Xmas.

Same for Chico, Anderson.

Evans though, he was absolutely abysmal, partly, but not fully, due to "the system". "The system" didn't make him give a 5 yard pass to an opposition player in the box, bad concentration did, and that's unforgivable really.

Lord TSC

Pro. F wrote: »

The responsibility for this lies on the manager, not the players. When it is PL opposition that are getting the results then it is conceivable that the problem is a lack of quality. But getting hockeyed by a League 1 side? That is down to how the manager selected and organised the team.

He's new in the job and he's trying to make a lot of changes, he just pushed it too far last night.

I understand your point, and I won't deny that LVG gave off an aire of not being all that bothered by the match tonight (in terms of not valuing the cup and choosing accordingly).

At the same time....what team should he have picked? A massive chunk of his first team is out injured, his second string had played a game 48 hours before. He was pretty much left having to choose a third string with a few "senior" players involved (Hernandez, Welbeck, Anderson and Evans are all senior, even if not first team). Throw in Januzaj (who probably wouldn't have played much if not for the injury) and De Gea (who I was actually surprised was playing), and he didn't have much choice left.

Either he threw out the kids and said "Prove yourselves", or he threw out the second string who were all probably still recovering from Sunday, and risked yet more injuries to players he can't afford to lose.

Again, I agree he made the call, and obviously decided not to risk big players, but there were reasons that probably made his team selection a little bit straightforward in terms of who was viably available. Meanwhile, a lot of the fringe players should have been seeing it as a chance to prove themselves and should have been able to at least score against a League One side, let alone win.

ericzeking

magnumbud wrote: »

i'd say perrera too but hes another no 10 so whens he gonna get near the team

The lad Pereira was a real bright spark, he looks like a number ten but then for one of the goals he was back trying to get in a last ditch tackle in his own box with only one other defender iirc, now he obviously failed but the atitude was good, top notch in fact.

Big positive for me as I haven't seen much of him.

Wilson I think looks to have that spark, that something extra, hopefully he'll make it and save us 40 or 50 million in a year or 2, he has something extra that I didn't see in other strikers coming through like Welbeck (though I do feel DW has lots of worthwhile attributes) Macheda or Rossi for example.

Spazdarn

Lads, that was horrendous to watch last night, I've put all my eggs in the Burnley basket now... which is dangerous

I did take positives from watch Januzaj, Wilson and maybe that Pereira lad when he came on. I know it's only the league cup, but it's the only format where the young players really get to shine and stake a claim on getting inclusion into the first team and the last couple of years they've failed early on.

Without an extended run in the league cup, few of these players will ever see the light of day

kippy

RayCun wrote: »

As pointed out above, Welbeck came through the youth system. If he's sold for 15m, that alone probably covers 2/3 years of the academy cost. Most years there are other sales, much less income, but keeps things ticking over. And there's always the chance that a player will break through...

United have had some big sales alright of youth system players but the systems themselves dont seem to be as functional relative to the amount spent/facilities and staff asdigned to them.
As for the wellbeck example. Hes cost United between 45 k and 75k a week since 2012 depending on what you read. Factor that cost into his figures and it aint exactly 15 million profit.