Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Pro. F

redbaron_99 wrote: »

The way to stretch the opposition is to move the ball fast. It can move faster than any player.

Moving the ball fast is not going to stop defenders pushing up and restricting your room to play. You need a threat of pace in behind them, and central midfielders and full-backs aren't going to be in the right place to offer that threat.

I'm not saying categorically that a diamond midfield can't work without serious pace in your front three. But when Madrid from last year are held up as the example of what to do with Di Maria, they definitely had that.

Backstreet Moyes

On the evidence of Wilson last night i think he deserves to be promoted as 4th choice and get some games this season. He nearly scored a wonder goal outside the box, forced a good save from a header and caused problems as soon as he came on. This despite little or no service.

Just to clarify when i say on the evidence of last night i don't mean i am basing this on last night alone. I think he is potentially a world class striker and i feel he is one of those players who sooner than people think will be pushing Rooney and RVP to keep there place.

Backstreet Moyes

I think what last night showed more than anything is the weakness of the squad. People can moan and rightly so but only De Gea will be a first team regular this season and possibly Evans.

Keane 5th or 6th choice cb
Vermij 6th or 7th choice
James 4th choice
Janko 4th choice
Anderson gone
Powell needs a loan
Wellbeck no service at all
Hernandez no service and has no confidnce
Kagawa off after a few minutes

fish fingers

Nuts102 wrote: »

On the evidence of Wilson last night i think he deserves to be promoted as 4th choice and get some games this season. He nearly scored a wonder goal outside the box, forced a good save from a header and caused problems as soon as he came on. This despite little or no service.

Just to clarify when i say on the evidence of last night i don't mean i am basing this on last night alone. I think he is potentially a world class striker and i feel he is one of those players who sooner than people think will be pushing Rooney and RVP to keep there place.

Yea, he looked very good when he came on. Was a serious save from his first shot.

Backstreet Moyes

Also i know it's grand playing football along the ground but what Evans done last night was coming. All our games defenders are taking risks passing it around at the back it was going to happen at some stage. I am all for building from the back but all this passing the ball around across the box was eventually going to lead to what happened last night. There is no harm hoofing the ball clear at times.

Maximus Alexander

Nuts102 wrote: »

Also i know it's grand playing football along the ground but what Evans done last night was coming. All our games defenders are taking risks passing it around at the back it was going to happen at some stage. I am all for building from the back but all this passing the ball around across the box was eventually going to lead to what happened last night. There is no harm hoofing the ball clear at times.

I can only assume that they've been instructed to do this and that it is part of the LVG teething problems.

homerjay2005

Nuts102 wrote: »

I think what last night showed more than anything is the weakness of the squad. People can moan and rightly so but only De Gea will be a first team regular this season and possibly Evans.

but thats the thing, why should manchester united put out such a poor team of what essencially was a squad full of 3rd choice players except for DDG, Evans and 2 or 3 more than who are not first 11, but are 2nd choice?

6 lads played last night (Ver, Janko, Wilson, Anderson, Powell and Per) that were not taken on the tour.

that team selection wasnt acceptable with 10+ other players available, some of whom could have been at least on the bench if we were in trouble.

Nalz

adox wrote: »

If there are no more additions I reckon we will end up 5th or 6th.

I agree 100%

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Aguero missed almost half of City's league games last year, and Negredo and Dzeko aren't blessed with pace. It's all about getting the ball to Rooney and RVP in shooting positions rather than lumping the ball towards them in the box

City weren't playing a diamond though. They had Nasri and Navas for pace out wide or cutting in.

Maximus Alexander

homerjay2005 wrote: »

but thats the thing, why should manchester united put out such a poor team of what essencially was a squad full of 3rd choice players except for DDG, Evans and 2 or 3 more than who are not first 11, but are 2nd choice?

6 lads played last night (Ver, Janko, Wilson, Anderson, Powell and Per) that were not taken on the tour.

that team selection wasnt acceptable with 10+ other players who could have been at least on the bench if we were in trouble.

Even my girlfriend, who has absolutely no interest in football and just listens to me rant because she loves me, said this. "Why didn't he just fill the bench with good players in case they were needed?"

Only thing I can think of is that with the injury crisis he didn't want to take any risks at all with the first teamers.

Nalz

geeksauce wrote: »

I would take 4th right now

so would any United fan with their head screwed on.

Maximus Alexander

Trilla wrote: »

so would any United fan with their head screwed on.

If the team can improve over the season, finish strongly and get into 4th, I'll be delighted and extremely confident for next season.

Yer Aul One

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Even my girlfriend, who has absolutely no interest in football and just listens to me rant because she loves me, said this. "Why didn't he just fill the bench with good players in case they were needed?"

Only thing I can think of is that with the injury crisis he didn't want to take any risks at all with the first teamers.

A fellow United fan told me this morning he reckons that LvG wanted to show the limitations in the squad before the transfer window was shut.

Not sure if I agree but it was interesting...

ericzeking

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Even my girlfriend, who has absolutely no interest in football and just listens to me rant because she loves me, said this. "Why didn't he just fill the bench with good players in case they were needed?"

Only thing I can think of is that with the injury crisis he didn't want to take any risks at all with the first teamers.

Ha...it's amazing what they pick up from the rants, I got "who are these?"...I had to explain the whole Wimbledon back story..... "they'll surely beat them won't they?"....Januzaj got the ball and did something sh!t...."I thought he was meant to be good"

She was almost in more disbelief than I was, I could only laugh by the end, the defending was so bad.

Bless them!!!

Nalz

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

If the team can improve over the season, finish strongly and get into 4th, I'll be delighted and extremely confident for next season.

Look at the unit Everton have, Spurs will improve on last season, then you've Arsenal Liverpool Chelsea and City.

We need more than Di Maria right now to overhaul 3 of those

Billy86

kstand wrote: »

Lively to an extent, but inevitably toothless which is a byword for Danny Welbecks general performances.

It's funny to me how eager some people are to have a go at Welbeck. He didn't have a good night last night (nobody did bar Wilson and Pereira to an extent) but he was our only attacking player creating anything at all before those subs. In the first 10 minutes he gave Hernandez an excellent ball he should have at least challenged the keeper with... cheers fell over. Minutes later he put Kagawa through for what really should have been a goal... But Kagawa missed the run. If either one of those goes in I reckon our very young team would have got its nerves together and we would have likely been fine... But they didn't. End result: people forget (willingly or otherwise) Welbeck did anything at all.

OWe saw one of the worst performances from an established Man Utd striker in YEARS last night and it wasn't Welbeck. But still, some can't get past the opportunity to blame it on him.

irishfeen

Yer Aul One wrote: »

A fellow United fan told me this morning he reckons that LvG wanted to show the limitations in the squad before the transfer window was shut.

Not sure if I agree but it was interesting...

Could very well explain LVG's bizarre response to being asked about transfers last night saying it's cost us points and being in the league cup..

Backstreet Moyes

homerjay2005 wrote: »

but thats the thing, why should manchester united put out such a poor team of what essencially was a squad full of 3rd choice players except for DDG, Evans and 2 or 3 more than who are not first 11, but are 2nd choice?

6 lads played last night (Ver, Janko, Wilson, Anderson, Powell and Per) that were not taken on the tour.

that team selection wasnt acceptable with 10+ other players available, some of whom could have been at least on the bench if we were in trouble.

I don't know really it was putting a 3rd string side thrown together into a system they probably never played in before a recipe for disaster.

Mantis Toboggan

Lads our first team would have struggled to win Last night.

Also 4 of our players that started last night went to the world cup, so there's no excuse for being hammered by a third division team.

irishfeen

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Lads our first team would have struggled to win Last night.

Also 4 of our players that started last night went to the world cup, so there's no excuse for being hammered by a third division team.

We won't go mad now..

homerjay2005

Nuts102 wrote: »

I don't know really it was putting a 3rd string side thrown together into a system they probably never played in before a recipe for disaster.

those 2 words say a lot...it really looked like we put no preparation into the game at all.

surely to god we could have set up a standard 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 at least with Adnan/Zaha on the wings behind for example Kagawa off Wilson/Welbeck.

sky88

TheDoc wrote: »

Problem is getting them ticking. Mata,RVP and Rooney axis hasn't really blossomed.

in fairness they really havent got a run of games together seems like rvp or rooney has been injured since mata got here

Maximus Alexander

Trilla wrote: »

Look at the unit Everton have, Spurs will improve on last season, then you've Arsenal Liverpool Chelsea and City.

We need more than Di Maria right now to overhaul 3 of those

Which is why I'll be delighted if it happens. :pac:

Blatter

So Ogden, Ladyman and Herbert are saying we are in for Vidal and Daniel Taylor says he trusts those three and the briefings from the club are very different from what they were a few weeks ago with regards the player.

Looks like we are definitely in for him now, whether it happens or not is another thing.

Blatter

Blatter wrote: »

So Ogden, Ladyman and Herbert are saying we are in for Vidal and Daniel Taylor says he trusts those three and the briefings from the club are very different from what they were a few weeks ago with regards the player.

Looks like we are definitely in for him now, whether it happens or not is another thing.

Links? Can't see anything on their Twitter accounts.

Maximus Alexander

Normally by Wednesday afternoon I'll be really looking forward to watching United play on Saturday, but this week I can picture the scene...

Me in my couch pants, sitting back with a cup of coffee in my hand and the match on the TV. Volume up nice and loud with the buildup going, the lineup comes on the screen. Star studded, a couple of weak spots, but a team that by all accounts looks well capable of mauling an unfortunate newly promoted side. An anticipatory smile creases my lips as the final ad break comes to a close.

Whistle goes. 90 minutes of turgid football follows, finishing with the final groan of eleven Burnley men behind the ball, holding out for a well earned draw.

Please let this be one of the times that the way I imagine things is completely wrong. Like that time I mocked people for suggesting that United would finish below Liverpool in the 2013/14 Premier League season.

Pro. F

Billy86 wrote: »

It's funny to me how eager some people are to have a go at Welbeck. He didn't have a good night last night (nobody did bar Wilson and Pereira to an extent) but he was our only attacking player creating anything at all before those subs. In the first 10 minutes he gave Hernandez an excellent ball he should have at least challenged the keeper with... cheers fell over. Minutes later he put Kagawa through for what really should have been a goal... But Kagawa missed the run. If either one of those goes in I reckon our very young team would have got its nerves together and we would have likely been fine... But they didn't. End result: people forget (willingly or otherwise) Welbeck did anything at all.

OWe saw one of the worst performances from an established Man Utd striker in YEARS last night and it wasn't Welbeck. But still, some can't get past the opportunity to blame it on him.

It's just as bad to be blaming Hernandez imo. He's a goal poacher who was doing a large share of his work on the wing. He was getting very poor service in the box.

Wouldn't agree with it being the worst performance from a striker in years either. Was no worse than some of RVP's poorer games last year when the team weren't clicking.

TheDoc

Blatter wrote: »

So Ogden, Ladyman and Herbert are saying we are in for Vidal and Daniel Taylor says he trusts those three and the briefings from the club are very different from what they were a few weeks ago with regards the player.

Looks like we are definitely in for him now, whether it happens or not is another thing.

Juventus now firmly aware we are not ****ing around.

Backstreet Moyes

4th is going to be tough this season Everton look good, Spurs look much better organised and Liverpool will only improve.

I think Saturday's game is huge and in the context of the season 9 points from the next three games is important. We won't get many easier games than the next three and it's going go be close for 4th badly need to pick up points.

geeksauce

Trilla wrote: »

so would any United fan with their head screwed on.

That's for sure there are some out there thought are still delusional and think Utd could launch a challenge for the title.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

A fast full-back and central midfielder are not going to stretch an opposition defence, you need pace in the forwards to do that.

di maria will do most of his damage on the wing, shaw will offer pace and good overlapping runs to push the defence back. if di maria or shaw get past the defence they it will leave loads or room for the other players to operate

Backstreet Moyes

Hernandez just like all our strikers are being starved of service. You put the ball into the box and he will score. He is dropping into midfield and onto the wing to get involved and his all round game is just not great. This is then taking him away from where he is at his best inside the box. He didn't become a bad player overnight it's the midfield is the issue. Mata, Kagawa and Rooney have all suffered from dropping too deep and so will RVP. A world class midfielder is essential or 4th is a big ask imo.

homerjay2005

do ye think the movement now on the transfers, is a direct response to the poor start to the season?

or ye believe they would have been signed, regardless of the results?

i mean, if we make a late bid for Vidal, why are we only doing it now when it was clear for 4 years that a player like him was needed and that the likes of Fletcher and Anderson were no longer up to it.

and same goes for Blind. if we want him now, surely we wanted him 4 weeks ago while we were still in preseason.

its just really baffling to try figure out how we approached our summer this year and the shambolic start so far could have been avoided with better planning perhaps.

dave_o_brien

D-FENS wrote: »

In today’s modern game,at 26, with 3/4 years La Liga experience, 3 successful years at Chelsea and several years around a dominating Spanish team set up, I would definitely class Mata as a senior player.
He’s clearly a mature minded individual anyway and I think he’s become well established for someone only at OT for 8 months.

Di Maria comes to us with a similar CV, excluding the PL experience. If he adapts to the league like we all hope he will, they will both be cornerstones of the team by the end of the season.

I don't think Mata was/behaved like one last year. He, and Di Maria like him, need to set an example.

Blatter

Sarai Brief Thriller wrote: »

Links? Can't see anything on their Twitter accounts.

On my phone but the Ladyman and Ogden articles were posted already this morning and you will find what Taylor said on his Twitter account as a reply to someone.

Bleating Lamb

See that Barcelona are prepared to let Alex Song go on a free....IMO we could do a lot worse than go after him as a backup in case Vidal doesn't work out,good steady box to box player who can tackle and def a step up on Cleverly etc.

RayCun

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i mean, if we make a late bid for Vidal, why are we only doing it now when it was clear for 4 years that a player like him was needed and that the likes of Fletcher and Anderson were no longer up to it.

For all we know, negotiations have been going on re. Vidal for weeks
Maybe the results in the last couple of weeks have bumped up the ceiling on United's bids, but I seriously doubt there was any real change in the transfer strategy

RayCun

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

See that Barcelona are prepared to let Akex Song go on a free....IMO we could do a lot worse than go after him as a backup in case Vidal doesn't work out,good steady box to box player who can tackle and def a step up on Cleverly etc.

It sounds like Blind is the Vidal backup

bangkok

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

See that Barcelona are prepared to let Alex Song go on a free....IMO we could do a lot worse than go after him as a backup in case Vidal doesn't work out,good steady box to box player who can tackle and def a step up on Cleverly etc.

isn't song one of the 3 24hour players?

geeksauce

homerjay2005 wrote: »

do ye think the movement now on the transfers, is a direct response to the poor start to the season?

or ye believe they would have been signed, regardless of the results?

i mean, if we make a late bid for Vidal, why are we only doing it now when it was clear for 4 years that a player like him was needed and that the likes of Fletcher and Anderson were no longer up to it.

and same goes for Blind. if we want him now, surely we wanted him 4 weeks ago while we were still in preseason.

its just really baffling to try figure out how we approached our summer this year and the shambolic start so far could have been avoided with better planning perhaps.

I would say they knew Utd needed players, the poor start to the season was inevitable really, letting Evra, Rio and Vidic go was bound to mean they would be worse this season than last. Expecting Utd to be better this year when the team is weaker is crazy so they must have known there is a real need to strengthen.

As for Blind I honestly don't know what the story is there, Ajax said yesterday or Monday that they haven't had any bids or contact from Utd for him, surely to God if Utd wanted to sign him it would be as easy as picking up the phone and offering 15m - 20m, I am sure Ajax would be happy with that and Blind would certainly be eager to join Utd.

I really thought as soon as the World Cup was over Utd would have a few players in within a couple of weeks and all the transfers would be done and dusted. I used to hate when Utd signed 3 or 4 players at the beginning of the summer just as soon as the season ended because it gave me nothing to look forward to for the rest of the summer in terms of signings but honestly they would be so much better than the last two summers.

Bleating Lamb

bangkok wrote: »

isn't song one of the 3 24hour players?

How do you mean?
IMO Blind should not be looked on as Vidal backup....different type of player altogether.

KH25

IMO we should be looking at both Blind and Vidal.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

di maria will do most of his damage on the wing, shaw will offer pace and good overlapping runs to push the defence back. if di maria or shaw get past the defence they it will leave loads or room for the other players to operate

I'm assuming we're still talking about the diamond here, with Mata, Rooney and RVP up front. If Di Maria is making his attacking runs on the wing, then one of the front three will have to either fill in in central midfield or on the opposite wing. None of the three are particularly good in those positions and none of them have the athleticism to get forward effectively from so deep.

Shaw is going to be doing his defensive job. A pacey forward is a threat to the opposition back line as soon as you regain possession, because he's already in position or near position to run in behind them. A full-back is going to make the majority of his runs from deep, so that is not the same threat at all.

RayCun

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

How do you mean?
IMO Blind should not be looked on as Vidal backup....different type of player altogether.

Don't mean he's a like-for-like replacement, but in the sense that they're looking to buy a midfielder and trying for Vidal. If they get Vidal they won't also buy Blind. If they don't get Vidal, Blind is available on short notice and would also improve midfield.

bangkok

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

How do you mean?
IMO Blind should not be looked on as Vidal backup....different type of player altogether.

vidal is the mian target and they will push right up until the transfer deadline to get him but if they cant get him there are 3 players in which they could sign 1 within 24 hours.

de jong
blind
song

Ravenid

geeksauce wrote: »

..... and Blind would certainly be eager to join Utd.

Based on our performances so far Paul Gascoine would be wary of signing for us

Backstreet Moyes

bangkok wrote: »

vidal is the mian target and they will push right up until the transfer deadline to get him but if they cant get him there are 3 players in which they could sign 1 within 24 hours.

de jong
blind
song

We could do with three of those four in fairness. All of them are step up from everyone bar Herrera.

Spazdarn

I'd be more than happy with De Jong, his skillset is what we're lacking, loads of experience too, and a history in the premier league where he done well.

Heard he wants to stay at Milan though, I don't see how players can be classed as last 24 hours, when they're much more important to their clubs than the value we put on them. Milan won't be able to replace him in time.

MagicIRL

KH25 wrote: »

IMO we should be looking at both Blind and Vidal.

I think the club is, but I reckon it could be Blind and Strootman in January.

bangkok

ToiletFusion wrote: »

I'd be more than happy with De Jong, his skillset is what we're lacking, loads of experience too, and a history in the premier league where he done well.

Heard he wants to stay at Milan though, I don't see how players can be classed as last 24 hours, when they're much more important to their clubs than the value we put on them. Milan won't be able to replace him in time.

well he is nearly 30 and if they were going to get any value now is the time to sell but don't think we will be seeing de jong at ot.