Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Mitch Connor

RayCun wrote: »

It sounds like Blind is the Vidal backup

from what I am seeing/hearing/reading - Blind is wanted in addition to Vidal. With De Jong being the back up to Vidal.

Pro. F

homerjay2005 wrote: »

do ye think the movement now on the transfers, is a direct response to the poor start to the season?

or ye believe they would have been signed, regardless of the results?

i mean, if we make a late bid for Vidal, why are we only doing it now when it was clear for 4 years that a player like him was needed and that the likes of Fletcher and Anderson were no longer up to it.

and same goes for Blind. if we want him now, surely we wanted him 4 weeks ago while we were still in preseason.

its just really baffling to try figure out how we approached our summer this year and the shambolic start so far could have been avoided with better planning perhaps.

For what it's worth, Van Gaal also bought Robben late in his first window at Bayern and then changed the system to suit him. And he's said that he always starts slowly at a new club. Maybe poor transfer planning (or being slow in working out what he needs) is why.

Spazdarn

10 million isn't an awful lot of money though even to a broke Milan

Smithwicks Man

De Jong won't be joining United.

advertsfox

Time to stir things up...

https://twitter.com/TheCalcioGuy/status/504625607980773376

dahat

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

De Jong won't be joining United.

That's because Vidal is..... Yeah baby.

MagicIRL

advertsfox wrote: »

Time to stir things up...

https://twitter.com/TheCalcioGuy/status/504625607980773376

Quick, dig out that La Stampa article!

Smithwicks Man

dahat wrote: »

That's because Vidal is..... Yeah baby.

United should've moved for Vidal years ago. Better late than never though, best signing they could make.

redbaron_99

MagicIRL wrote: »

I think the club is, but I reckon it could be Blind and Strootman in January.

Why oh why do people keep taking about strootman in January like its a fall back option that can be done at the flick of a switch.

Strootman in January would be an extremely difficult and unlikely deal.

glued

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

De Jong won't be joining United.

AC Milan seem more than prepared to sell anyone that does reasonably well for them. Isn't De Jong their POTY?

case885

MagicIRL wrote: »

I think the club is, but I reckon it could be Blind and Strootman in January.

If stootman plays well up to january, roma will be looking for a serious amount of money with 3 and half years left on his contract and i doubt he'll hand in a transfer request. They could want £60m at least for him. Vidal should be got and send chico the other way would be great.

Pro. F

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Why oh why do people keep taking about strootman in January like its a fall back option that can be done at the flick of a switch.

Strootman in January would be an extremely difficult and unlikely deal.

Last I heard Roma are relatively weak financially and Strootman has worked closely with LVG already.

Spazdarn

case885 wrote: »

If stootman plays well up to january, roma will be looking for a serious amount of money with 3 and half years left on his contract and i doubt he'll hand in a transfer request. They could want £60m at least for him. Vidal should be got and send chico the other way would be great.

Chico looked like he had one foot out the door last night.

bangkok

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

United should've moved for Vidal years ago. Better late than never though, best signing they could make.

hindsight is a great thing

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

do ye think the movement now on the transfers, is a direct response to the poor start to the season?

or ye believe they would have been signed, regardless of the results?

i mean, if we make a late bid for Vidal, why are we only doing it now when it was clear for 4 years that a player like him was needed and that the likes of Fletcher and Anderson were no longer up to it.

and same goes for Blind. if we want him now, surely we wanted him 4 weeks ago while we were still in preseason.

its just really baffling to try figure out how we approached our summer this year and the shambolic start so far could have been avoided with better planning perhaps.

I think there are a few factors.

My personal opinion based on what I have read and been told elsewhere.

1. LVG had certain targets defined early in the window - Vidal, Hummels, Vermaelen for example.
2. The club failed to sign these players (or any of LVGs targets) by August 16th, as LVG wanted.
3. The poor start to the season and injury problems accentuated the need for signings.
4. LVG, Glazers, Woodward had a meeting (reported in the press last week) in the second half of last week where LVG made his annoyance at the transfer situation very clear.

Those top 4 i'd be very confident on.

Following those points, and following the meeting - I reckon (pure speculation on my part) that the Glazers told Woodward to pull the finger out and get deals done. I'm sure the money has been there all summer, but I think Woodward was intent on getting value for money - while now he just needs to get some fecking players for money, and this has been made clear. I think we will still look to negotiate and no go utterly insane, but I reckon the upward value United will pay for a player has been increased in the last few days - hence the Di Maria move happening very quickly and a push for Vidal being made.

redbaron_99

Pro. F wrote: »

Last I heard Roma are relatively weak financially and Strootman has worked closely with LVG already.

They already tried to hold us to ransom over the Benatia deal, it will be worse with strootman.

And the player will not be in first team action until December. The board will not sanction a big transfer for a player who is only back from such a serious injury.
Roma won't be likely to sell him mid season.
And so what if he worked with LVG? There are dozens of players who have.

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

hindsight is a great thing

Not for everyone - I was barking we should be moving for him when Juve were buying him. Headshot was too.

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Not for everyone - I was barking we should be moving for him when Juve were buying him. Headshot was too.

what did juve pay at the time 7 or 8m?? if he was so good then why didn't barca, real Madrid Bayern utd Chelsea arsenal come calling? no one would have known he would have gone on to become the player he was

Smithwicks Man

glued wrote: »

AC Milan seem more than prepared to sell anyone that does reasonably well for them. Isn't De Jong their POTY?

Yep was voted POTY last season by the fans. Played very well in a struggling team. They'd more than likely accept an offer of £12-15m but De Jong wants to stay and the Milan Channel even stated 2 days ago that he'll 100% stay.

Earlier in the summer the move would've been more likely but not now after the sale of Balotelli.

case885 wrote: »

If stootman plays well up to january, roma will be looking for a serious amount of money with 3 and half years left on his contract and i doubt he'll hand in a transfer request. They could want £60m at least for him. Vidal should be got and send chico the other way would be great.

Even with a great start to 14/15 it wouldn't cost £60m for Strootman. £30-35m now would get him.

bangkok wrote: »

hindsight is a great thing

It is yeah, except I've been saying it for over 2 years now.

He's been brilliant for years and was one of the best midfielders in world football last season.

redbaron_99 wrote: »

They already tried to hold us to ransom over the Benatia deal, it will be worse with strootman.

How did Roma hold United to ransom over Benatia? He's after leaving for €30m.

Blatter

bangkok wrote: »

what did juve pay at the time 7 or 8m?? if he was so good then why didn't barca, real Madrid Bayern utd Chelsea arsenal come calling? no one would have known he would have gone on to become the player he was

Think Van Gaal actually tried to sign him for Bayern.

Pro. F

redbaron_99 wrote: »

They already tried to hold us to ransom over the Benatia deal, it will be worse with strootman.

And the player will not be in first team action until December. The board will not sanction a big transfer for a player who is only back from such a serious injury.
Roma won't be likely to sell him mid season.
And so what if he worked with LVG? There are dozens of players who have.

There's no solid evidence on what happened with Benatia.

I thought he was meant to be back in action in October.

How do you know Roma won't be likely to sell him mid season?

Presumably if the payer has worked with LVG before, and LVG was such a fan of his, there's a reasonable chance that they've built up a good relationship and the player might prefer LVG over other managers.

homerjay2005

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think there are a few factors.

My personal opinion based on what I have read and been told elsewhere.

1. LVG had certain targets defined early in the window - Vidal, Hummels, Vermaelen for example.
2. The club failed to sign these players (or any of LVGs targets) by August 16th, as LVG wanted.
3. The poor start to the season and injury problems accentuated the need for signings.
4. LVG, Glazers, Woodward had a meeting (reported in the press last week) in the second half of last week where LVG made his annoyance at the transfer situation very clear.

Those top 4 i'd be very confident on.

Following those points, and following the meeting - I reckon (pure speculation on my part) that the Glazers told Woodward to pull the finger out and get deals done. I'm sure the money has been there all summer, but I think Woodward was intent on getting value for money - while now he just needs to get some fecking players for money, and this has been made clear. I think we will still look to negotiate and no go utterly insane, but I reckon the upward value United will pay for a player has been increased in the last few days - hence the Di Maria move happening very quickly and a push for Vidal being made.

if those points are true, you'd imagine that a DOF for transfers/assist LVG on football related issuesm will be brought in for future windows allowing Woodward to concentrate on the commercial side.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Last I heard Roma are relatively weak financially and Strootman has worked closely with LVG already.

My understanding also, they need to sell stellar names to fund squad recycling.Could of had for £12m, will end up spending close to £30m

Bleating Lamb

Was talking to lad who saw Rojo playing in the flesh,would say he is far more comfortable as a LB than as a CB s
o if LVG abandons the 3 CB idea he could be seeing a lot of bench time but tbh it's time we had 2 decent players for every position,which we had up to a few yrs ago,
I would be a bit worried if signed Vidal could become the new Owen Hargreaves with his dodgy Knee,and we are after Strootman next transfer window supposedly who has had serious cruciate injury.Vidals agent isn't going to be encouraging him to sign a contract based on appearances either.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

There's no solid evidence on what happened with Benatia.

I thought he was meant to be back in action in October.

How do you know Roma won't be likely to sell him mid season?

Presumably if the payer has worked with LVG before, and LVG was such a fan of his, there's a reasonable chance that they've built up a good relationship and the player might prefer LVG over other managers.

Forgotten factor is Strootman wanted a United move and Ferguson declined.Could have a "**** you "mentality towards United.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

what did juve pay at the time 7 or 8m?? if he was so good then why didn't barca, real Madrid Bayern utd Chelsea arsenal come calling? no one would have known he would have gone on to become the player he was

Because the transfer market is not perfect.

I was late to the party and only watched him in the Copa America that summer after Juve had already signed him. He was excellent then and it was obvious Juve had got a bargain.

RayCun

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I reckon (pure speculation on my part) that the Glazers told Woodward to pull the finger out and get deals done.

Could equally be Woodward insisted that he had to be given more of a free rein and LVG said back him or sack me.

Mitch Connor

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Was talking to lad who saw Rojo playing in the flesh,would say he is far more comfortable as a LB than as a CB s
o if LVG abandons the 3 CB idea he could be seeing a lot of bench time but tbh it's time we had 2 decent players for every position,which we had up to a few yrs ago,
I would be a bit worried if signed Vidal could become the new Owen Hargreaves with his dodgy Knee,and we are after Strootman next transfer window supposedly who has had serious cruciate injury.Vidals agent isn't going to be encouraging him to sign a contract based on appearances either.

in what capacity did he see him? he played almost exclusively at CB for Sporting and I have read Sporting fans comment that he is a better CB than LB.

advertsfox

Just in the Transfer Watch...

SSN wrote:

Reports in Spain suggest that Manchester United playmaker Shinji Kagawa has been offered to La Liga side Valencia. It is understood that a decision on any move for the Japan international will be made on Thursday.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Because the transfer market is not perfect.

I was late to the party and only watched him in the Copa America that summer after Juve had already signed him. He was excellent then and it was obvious Juve had got a bargain.

yes but it is all hindsight, we signed kleberson wjo had just won a world cup and was fantastic then totally flopped at united.

Mitch Connor

RayCun wrote: »

Could equally be Woodward insisted that he had to be given more of a free rein and LVG said back him or sack me.

Not my understanding of the conversation, but yes - that could be it alright.

Bleating Lamb

Lad living in Argentina who goes to fair few international games, said he saw him play both LB and CB and that in Argie they prefer him playing LB.

TheDoc

Loads of stuff circulating about Vidal and his agent, I'm assuming it's more pony?

Smithwicks Man

bangkok wrote: »

yes but it is all hindsight, we signed kleberson wjo had just won a world cup and was fantastic then totally flopped at united.

How is it hindsight? Even from his debut season for Juventus it was obvious he was a talent. He's gone on to become a World Class midfielder.

Every time someone has asked me over the last 2 years who I thought United should buy in midfield I've said Vidal yet they never seemed to go for him. We're not talking about a kid who may or may not flop, he's been an established midfielder for years.

advertsfox wrote: »

Just in the Transfer Watch...

I'll be having a wee nibble on that transfer happening at 20/1

mufc1993

Smithwicks Man wrote: »

I'll be having a wee nibble on that transfer happening at 20/1

Where is that?

redbaron_99

Pro. F wrote: »

There's no solid evidence on what happened with Benatia.

I thought he was meant to be back in action in October.

How do you know Roma won't be likely to sell him mid season?

Presumably if the payer has worked with LVG before, and LVG was such a fan of his, there's a reasonable chance that they've built up a good relationship and the player might prefer LVG over other managers.

Remember in January what I said.

kstand

TheDoc wrote: »

Loads of stuff circulating about Vidal and his agent, I'm assuming it's more pony?

Yep, ignore it. It was doing the rounds last night that his agent was in the UK and it has gathered pace today but I think its rubbish. I think however that negotiations are fairly advanced at this stage and I think a fee has been agreed.

Smithwicks Man

mufc1993 wrote: »

Where is that?

Sky Bet


Seems too high of a price considering Valencia have money and are looking to buy and Kagawa is more than likely available.

Lord TSC

kstand wrote: »

Yep, ignore it. It was doing the rounds last night that his agent was in the UK and it has gathered pace today but I think its rubbish. I think however that negotiations are fairly advanced at this stage and I think a fee has been agreed.

Only thin is it feels as if the more reliable journalists, like Ogden, Ladyman etc, have been briefed there is an interest, which is a first all summer....

Coat22

homerjay2005 wrote: »

if those points are true, you'd imagine that a DOF for transfers/assist LVG on football related issuesm will be brought in for future windows allowing Woodward to concentrate on the commercial side.

I reckon the delay in most of this is down to players - Di Maria would not (despite his utterances) have signed for United if PSG or Madrid had coughed up.

Similar thing could be happening with Vidal - case of holding out to see if he gets a better offer.

Hopefully United have put deadlines in place so that if we get firm refusals we can get on with Plan B & C - I think this is what happened with DM - he was told "take it or leave it" last weekend and we forced his hand.

NTMK

Lord TSC wrote: »

Only thin is it feels as if the more reliable journalists, like Ogden, Ladyman etc, have been briefed there is an interest, which is a first all summer....

might be worth noting

https://twitter.com/DTguardian/statuses/504602724034686976

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

yes but it is all hindsight, we signed kleberson wjo had just won a world cup and was fantastic then totally flopped at united.

So because somebody else (Ferguson) got a prediction wrong (Kleberson) that means nobody can predict how good any player will be ever?

TheDoc

If we signed Vidal that's a pretty big statement from us this window.Ends justify the means?

Maximus Alexander

Shaw, Herrera, Rojo, Di Maria, Vidal, Blind. That would be some summer.

After the first four it's beginning to prove difficult for me to reign in my belief that it might happen. I mean, Di Maria? Anything's possible.

magnumbud

TheDoc wrote: »

If we signed Vidal that's a pretty big statement from us this window.Ends justify the means?

yet some on this thread would still complain about something:pac:

Spazdarn

TheDoc wrote: »

If we signed Vidal that's a pretty big statement from us this window.Ends justify the means?

Juventus are in a fairly strong bargaining position with him.

Can't see it happening

Rayne Wooney

Going to watch him play Saturday then try sort out a deal on Sunday/Monday?

It's cutting it close

TheDoc

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Juventus are in a fairly strong bargaining position with him.

Can't see it happening

If LVG wants, Eddie needs to go get.We played rich mouth, now we need to sign cheques.

TheDoc

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Going to watch him play Saturday then try sort out a deal on Sunday/Monday?

It's cutting it close

If there has been genuine summer interest, cant not believe scouts not watching him already.

RayCun

magnumbud wrote: »

yet some on this thread would still complain about something:pac:

Why the HELL were they not signed in June?!?! #woodwardout #LVGout