Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

kstand

Lord TSC wrote: »

Only thin is it feels as if the more reliable journalists, like Ogden, Ladyman etc, have been briefed there is an interest, which is a first all summer....

As regards his agent being in Manchester - about as reliable as the sources that were claiming Di Maria was in Manchester yesterday at lunchtime when his jet hadn't even taken of.

BMMachine

how do fans here see Utd starting with Di Maria, Rooney, RVP & Mata?

Lord TSC

kstand wrote: »

As regards his agent being in Manchester - about as reliable as the sources that were claiming Di Maria was in Manchester yesterday at lunchtime when his jet hadn't even taken of.

Not that aspect. The "Agent in manchester" stories didn't seem to get much traction.

More that it strikes me a few journalists are signing from the same hymn sheet with regards "We are definitely interested and hopeful of getting it done", which usually only happens when they've all received the same briefing. There seems to have been a change from the line of "We're not interested" that was emanating from the club all summer...

magnumbud

kstand wrote: »

As regards his agent being in Manchester - about as reliable as the sources that were claiming Di Maria was in Manchester yesterday at lunchtime when his jet hadn't even taken of.

di maria WAS at carrington yesterday afternoon i think you mean on monday

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

If there has been genuine summer interest, cant not believe scouts not watching him already.

I assumed Rayne was talking about watching Vidal to see how his knee is recovering. Although one game isn't going to be any sort of reliable evidence in that regard I suppose.

magnumbud

BMMachine wrote: »

how do fans here see Utd starting with Di Maria, Rooney, RVP & Mata?

hopefully well

Rayne Wooney

TheDoc wrote: »

If there has been genuine summer interest, cant not believe scouts not watching him already.

He hasn't played a competitive game fully fit since last season, Saturday will be his first

kstand

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Juventus are in a fairly strong bargaining position with him.

Can't see it happening

If we really want Vidal then they have us over a barrel in some ways. They would have to get someone in - but they don't need to sell from what I can see. So we'd end up paying top dollar or giving them a player plus damn good money. They would need to be working on who to bring in now though.

Smithwicks Man

mufc1993 wrote: »

Where is that?

Into 12/1 already

bangkok

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

He hasn't played a competitive game fully fit since last season, Saturday will be his first

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE-Tm-rS6Po

Headshot

kstand wrote: »

If we really want Vidal then they have us over a barrel in some ways. They would have to get someone in - but they don't need to sell from what I can see. So we'd end up paying top dollar or giving them a player plus damn good money. They would need to be working on who to bring in now though.

Do what ever it takes

Even adding chico and kag to the mix

magnumbud

kstand wrote: »

If we really want Vidal then they have us over a barrel in some ways. They would have to get someone in - but they don't need to sell from what I can see. So we'd end up paying top dollar or giving them a player plus damn good money. They would need to be working on who to bring in now though.

they can have welbeck and hernandez and 30 million

Billy86

Pro. F wrote: »

It's just as bad to be blaming Hernandez imo. He's a goal poacher who was doing a large share of his work on the wing. He was getting very poor service in the box.

Wouldn't agree with it being the worst performance from a striker in years either. Was no worse than some of RVP's poorer games last year when the team weren't clicking.

That's my point... it was a collectively horrible team performance wherein nobody but two young subs acquitted themselves well. It's why I don't understand the scapegoating, with Welbeck and even Kagawa (who we were controlling the game with until he got concussed) seeming to be the ones taking the brunt of it, as some people just love to blame the same people for anything and everything. No joke, I've even seen some people blaming Cleverly!

If we were to pick out the worst performance though, it would be Hernandez, Evans and in my mind Anderson. Anderson just isn't a good footballer (I genuinely don't think he is good enough for any Premiership team) , Evans we kind kind of write off as an extreme off say since he is a good but not great CB, but with Hernandez it showed something that many people are worried about... he is a poacher.

In today's game you just cannot be that and nothing more at a top team, you need to have a more rounded game and he really does not. His confidence is also very low, there were a few chances that he should have been at least challenging the keeper on where he didn't even mange to get the shot off. If you are going to do just one thing, you had better be consistently excellent at it and he is not. In terms of starting a game between him and Welbeck, it isn't really even close. Relative to the level of opposition, it is as bad as I can recall seeing from a regular here in quote some time.

That said, still love him off the bench particularly against teams parking the bus. It's just the same people always eager to blame players they have taken a disliking to that irritates me.

Nuts102 wrote: »

Hernandez just like all our strikers are being starved of service. You put the ball into the box and he will score. He is dropping into midfield and onto the wing to get involved and his all round game is just not great. This is then taking him away from where he is at his best inside the box. He didn't become a bad player overnight it's the midfield is the issue. Mata, Kagawa and Rooney have all suffered from dropping too deep and so will RVP. A world class midfielder is essential or 4th is a big ask imo.

That's the thing though, Hernandez didn't become a bad player overnight because he was never a very good player to begin with... usually a good finisher, and very valuable off the bench, especially against weaker competition sitting deep, but he has never been good at anything else. The ball was put to him a few times last night in great positions and he failed to even get an attempt on target from them, or anything even particularly close... when you specialise in one thing, you have to be excellent at it all the time at this level. It's not that he has forgotten how to finish, but more than Moyes shattered his confidence when in his first three years he was good for 15-20 goals off the bench in a limited role.

A top end CM to help does help, but we are not going to dominate every game even with a Vidal, and without that consistent service Hernandez is by far our most limited player up front, he won't make something out of nothing unless it is finding space in the box. Added to that he is by far the worst of our forwards at passing and moving, etc which means he limits our ability to hold and maintain possession, and in turn control matches, which only compounds our current problem further.

I don't want him gone or anything, again just pointing out that outside of breaking down a bunkered defense, Welbeck offers considerably more in almost every aspect of the game. Shame we can't cross breed them, stupid eugenics limitations and all that.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

I assumed Rayne was talking about watching Vidal to see how his knee is recovering. Although one game isn't going to be any sort of reliable evidence in that regard I suppose.

I was on that line too, thought he was back already for Juve no ?

Smithwicks Man

TheDoc wrote: »

I was on that line too, thought he was back already for Juve no ?

Season is only starting this weekend.

UnitedIrishman

Just with regards our late transfer dealings - is it not obvious that the Glazers had something to do with it given their selling of shares?

What is it, two weeks, since they sold off 7.5% of the club for 120m. Surely they would have told LVG and Woodward that until then they need the share price to remain strong and major transfers would wait until after they were sold.

The fact that after signing Di Maria for 58m or so, our share price dropped by 2.5% would point to me that they would have something to do with it. As a result if they had done these major prospective transfers pre-sale they would have lost 3m from their pockets. And we know how much they love their money.

Maximus Alexander

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

The fact that after signing Di Maria for 58m or so, our share price dropped by 2.5% would point to me that they would have something to do with it. As a result if they had done these major prospective transfers pre-sale they would have lost 3m from their pockets. And we know how much they love their money.

Not sure this is correct. The share price dropped between Monday night and Tuesday morning, before Di Maria was announced. It's bounced up and down a little since.

kstand

magnumbud wrote: »

di maria WAS at carrington yesterday afternoon i think you mean on monday

Sorry - Monday.

UnitedIrishman

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Not sure this is correct. The share price dropped between Monday night and Tuesday morning, before Di Maria was announced. It's bounced up and down a little since.

But the price was still as a result of the transfer.

It could be why there was no word of transfers at all pre-sale. Because Woodward would have been told not to make contact with sides regarding transfers or obviously potential buyers would see what's happening and he price would fall.

Maybe that's me reading too much into it.

BMMachine

magnumbud wrote: »

hopefully well

great and all but any ideas of starting XI's etc?

Hitchens

v3ttel

BMMachine wrote: »

great and all but any ideas of starting XI's etc?

There have been plenty of possible XI's posted in this thread over the last few days. Even though the thread has been moving at record pace, it's worth flicking back if you are really that interested.

Most people have a slightly different take on what may work best.

irishfeen

Hitchens wrote: »

Shower of ****...

BloodBath

Hopefully not this 3-4-1-2 that we've been using. I think we are only missing a quality defensive midfielder and we'd be sorted to run with something like this.

magnumbud

BMMachine wrote: »

great and all but any ideas of starting XI's etc?

if you want a detailed serious answer :

magnumbud wrote: »

there are 2 ways i can think of it going and i could be 100% wrong

a 442 diamond with someone sitting protecting the defence and ideally starting the ball going forward carrick or maybe even fellaini could do this role when fit or if a deal could be done for a certain chilean. then di maria on the left and herrera on the right of CM both have massive work rate engines and great passing and can get out wide when needed to help out the fullbacks(ideally shaw and rafa) then mata sitting on top of the diamond behind rooney and rvp.

The other way is a 433 but not in a typical way. same deal with someone sitting in a quarterback style role then herrera still on the right of a 3 but mata on the left but a bit more central then di maria on the left rvp central and rooney kinda central both more so on the right. in this di maria would be working back to help shaw allowing mata to focus on creating and going forward and herrera would help out the right back allowing rooney to stay forward almost like Villas role for barca a few years ago.

kstand

Talk that Vidal is a done deal.

geeksauce

kstand wrote: »

Talk that Vidal is a done deal.

Talk being the operative word

duffman13

kstand wrote: »

Talk that Vidal is a done deal.

From where? What a week if that is pulled off aswell!!!

merlinsmerryman

kstand wrote: »

Talk that Vidal is a done deal.

Twitter??

Yer Aul One

kstand wrote: »

Talk that Vidal is a done deal.

Back it up, for the love of god, back it up

Rayne Wooney

Sky Italy have his agent saying that United enquired at the World Cup but there hasn't been contact since, no bids

Will I Amnt

kstand wrote: »

Talk that Vidal is a done deal.

If you're getting that from a Twitter account called Futbol Agent then we need to meet so I can slap you in the face with a side of salmon... repeatedly.

geeksauce

'Ed Woodward has confirmed United will sign Vidal'
























it has been confirmed that Manchester United will sign deal with Vidal Sassoon to supply shampoo to the players at both the training ground and stadium replacing the deal currently in place with Head and Shoulders.

Maximus Alexander

kstand wrote: »

Talk that Vidal is a done deal.

Welcome to June.

Pro. F

BMMachine wrote: »

great and all but any ideas of starting XI's etc?

I think Mitch's list of all the likely formations is good:

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Potential formations - with Di Maria but no other signings (I believe United are trying to get another 2).

---

De Gea
Rafael--Smalling--Evans--Shaw

---

Carrick--Herrera
Januzaj

---

Mata

---

Di Maria

---

Rooney

---

De Gea
Rafael--Smalling--Evans--Shaw
----Herrera-Carrick-Di Maria

---

Mata

---

Rooney-RVP

---

De Gea
Rafael--Smalling--Evans--Shaw

---

Carrick

---

Herrera--Fletcher
Januzaj

---

Di Maria

---

Rooney

We certainly need another central midfielder, imo, and I believe we are going for one - whether we get them I dunno.

EDIT: Another option

---

De Gea
---Smalling---Evans--Rojo
Rafael

---

Shaw

---

Carrick-Herrera

---

Mata

---

Rooney-Di Maria

UnitedIrishman

Any Vidal talk is absolute BS at the min, he trained with Juve at 4pm when according to ITK's he said his goodbyes to his teammates at 3.10.

Rayne Wooney

Some of the reliable Juve guys say Juve want Chico on loan and to buy Rabiot too

The agent saying there's been no contact since the World Cup is strange, unless Woody is confident this is one of those 24 hour signings

J. Marston

BloodBath wrote: »

Hopefully not this 3-4-1-2 that we've been using. I think we are only missing a quality defensive midfielder and we'd be sorted to run with something like this.

Who says Mata is slow? 78 pace right there, quicker than Rooney.

If there is going to be a move for Vidal, I believe from following the saga over the summer that with Vidal's knee injury, it wasn't going to happen any other way than a late bid.

Juve do not need to sell the player and United's MF are crying out for somebody like Vidal. I reckon though that United still have the woes from Owen Hargreaves' transfer fresh in mind and don't want to get stung again with a potentially crocked player.

In waiting until now and even further into the closing days of the transfer window, United have given it as long as they possiblly could to see how Vidal's recovery progresses and if his knee will heal fully.

Because of this and the prospect of Vidal having what would be a very costly re-occurrence of his meniscus problem, any potential deal for the player is going to involve beyond-normal levels of complexity.

Juve hold all the decent cards for this deal...

United: Hey, we'd like to purchase one Arturo Vidal from you please.
Juve: Certainly, that will be £45m if you have it there thanks.
United: We don't, we were however thinking of something around £30m considering the situation with his knee injury.
Juve: The knee is fine. We are thinking 'no deal', but thanks for the interest and for Evra.
United: Ok wait, wait, wait, we meant to say £30m plus Hernandez.
Juve: Once again, thanks but no thanks and good luck with Cleverley, Fletcher, Anderson and the new season.
United: Sorry, I fúcked up there, what I was supposed to say was £35m plus Hernandez.
Juve: Hmm...we're thinking that if you throw in a Kagawa and another £5m we might have the makings of a deal.
United: Ok, so £40m plus our Chico and Kagawa?
Juve: Maybe...
United: Ha! Well can we go back to where you were offering us Arturo for £45m straight up?
Juve: Sorry but that offer has just expired, we want £40m plus Chico and Kagawa.
United: Ok, fúck it, go on then.
Juve: Excellent.

Now over to Vidal and United's negotiations...

United: Arturo, we have agreed a fee with Juve for your services and would be delighted to have you at our club.
Vidal: Finally, what took you guys so long? So where do I sign?
United: Right at the bottom of this page...
Vidal: Wait...What is this shíte about an appearance based contract? Where are all those zeros gone??
United: Yeah...hmm, we're kinda worried about your gammy knee and don't want to get Hargreavesed again so rather than £200,000 per week, we're going to pay you a minimal salary bumped up considerably by financial rewards each time you play.
Vidal: You guys are serious aren't you?
United: I'm afraid we have to take these precautions....
Vidal: Hold on - I could stay with Juve where I am adored which I don't mind doing, on my recently improved contract, with CL football, why exactly should I sign for Manchester United now?
United: I told the fans to 'watch this space', and you were one of the superstars I was hoping to put in that space.
Vidal: What in the fúck are you talking about?
United: Never mind, so you'll sign the document now, ok?
Vidal: Good bye.

Anyway, my point is that in any negotiations for Vidal with both he and with Juve, United will not get any discount because of his current injury problem. We will have to pay top dollar to Juve for the transfer, and a top salary to Vidal as a United player. I really can't see Juve parting with Vidal on the cheap, considering that there is a good chance he will recover fully and be a beast once again.

Also, I don't blame United one bit for exercising caution with this deal. The money involved would be huge and with the slight chance that Vidal could pick up a re-occurence it would not be worth it in that case.

TL:DR; Vidal's knee injury has turned what should have been an easy transfer negotiation into something that without the gift of precognition, is a tough call to make. It is the reason this has developed into a 'saga' by now. Both sides are right in a way: Juve don't want to sell their star on the cheap because of a slight chance his knee could get worse, and United don't want to spend a fortune on this player they badly need because of the same slight chance.

I'd love to see him at United, but the more talk that transpires over worries about Vidal's knee and the cost involved in signing him, the more I think that it probably won't happen in this window.

geeksauce

J. Marston wrote: »

Who says Mata is slow? 78 pace right there, quicker than Rooney.

What is CHE and is that really Luke Shaw doesn't look much like him.

TheTownie

kstand wrote: »

Talk that Vidal is a done deal.

You should stick to tracking planes.

kstand

Will I Amnt wrote: »

If you're getting that from a Twitter account called Futbol Agent then we need to meet so I can slap you in the face with a side of salmon... repeatedly.

Got a text. Not sure what source was checked before the text was sent. Generally reliable source.

duffman13

kstand wrote: »

Got a text. Not sure what source was checked before the text was sent. Generally reliable source.

Oh not this stuff again

redbaron_99

Vidal could have ended this saga at any time over the summer by simply stating to the press, categorically, this he is staying at juventus.

He's a troll!

geeksauce

kstand wrote: »

Got a text. Not sure what source was checked before the text was sent. Generally reliable source.

From Vidal or Woodward?

Jimmy Iovine

Hitchens wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBWuDhIv9B0

MagicIRL

We're getting away from what really matters.

If Vidal signs, Adox is off for a month. If Di Maria signs, Kew is changing his name, right?

Royal Irish

Just read a tweet that Vidal's agent has been spotted in Manchester for the 431st time this month with no proof whatsoever.

Mikeyt086

geeksauce wrote: »

What is CHE and is that really Luke Shaw doesn't look much like him.

Chemistry.

The scores are what the players scored out of 100 on a chemistry spot-quiz.

Vic Vinegar

geeksauce wrote: »

'Ed Woodward has confirmed United will sign Vidal'
it has been confirmed that Manchester United will sign deal with Vidal Sassoon to supply shampoo to the players at both the training ground and stadium replacing the deal currently in place with Head and Shoulders.

Wow, all the oldies are coming out today!