Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Is there any substance to the stuff about Carvalho or is it just in the realm of speculation so far?

GSPfan

GSPfan wrote: »

Last Tuesday. Ha. That had to be a set up.

Defiantly pulled a few :P

KH25

duffman13 wrote: »

In fairness Carvalho or Vidal should be the definite buy with Blind as a fall back option. Why are people so positive about Blind he is a good player but only as filler.

I watched Ajax a few times last year (always let me down on accumulators) and i honestly didn't even notice Blind. Then you have the 20 million figure aswell, I know we shouldn't care how much a player costs but that figure for him is madness. 10-12 million and he would be a decent squad option.

He's a definite buy for me for a couple of reasons.

1. He knows Van Gaal's system
2. He's a better option than those we already have (clev, fletch, etc)
3. He's versatile.
4. He's gettable.

Lord TSC

Sarai Brief Thriller wrote: »

Is there any substance to the stuff about Carvalho or is it just in the realm of speculation so far?

All the journalists who would be considered reliable are all saying the same thing, which usually means they have been briefed by United. At the very least, United wanted it known he was on our radar.

Lucas Hood

Sarai Brief Thriller wrote: »

Is there any substance to the stuff about Carvalho or is it just in the realm of speculation so far?

Ducker & Ogden both going with it so must be something in it.

homerjay2005

Yer Aul One wrote: »

With the risk of being violently attacked, do people think Blind is world class?

I wouldn't be watching much of Ajax but from the world cup I wasn't overly impressed...

no, he is not. Blind was a signing for me that only made real sense if we didnt get Shaw. it makes even less sense after we got Rojo and to be honest, the fact that we have not put in a bid yet suggest that the club probably sees it like this also.
£17+million is a lot to play for a player who would be back up in CB or CM. i think Blind is a "sure thing" as such so if we sign him, it is only due to our other targets not being met - Vidal, Carvalho.

Rojo, Shaw and Herrera arent world class for that matter either, but they have the potential to become it!

Mitch Connor

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Ducker & Ogden both going with it so must be something in it.

Taylor didn't report it himself, but said if Ducker and Ogden are saying it - he would say it is true.

Coat22

KH25 wrote: »

I believe our current CB options are strong enough for the moment. Tuesday aside, Evans is normally quite good. IMO the defence is being made to look worse than it is because of the gaping hole in front of it. Fixing CM will go a long way to addressing the defence.

You’re having a laugh aren’t you?

If the first 3 games of the season have done one thing for us it is to expose this ridiculous notion that United can get by playing 2 out of Jones/Smalling/Evans each week. Assuming Rojo turns out to be competent as a CB then we’re probably looking at Jones/Evans/Rojo as a back 3 in a 3-5-2 or Jones/Evans and Rojo in a 4-4-2 and that’s assuming Shaw is back and Rojo isn’t needed on the left.

Jones has started brightly and maybe its time to give him his chance but Smalling has been found out as has Evans. Both are capabale on their day but consistently they cannot do it at this level.

The amount of people on here trying to convince themselves we don’t need another CB is laughable – Rojo was a start, Blind would be an improvement but we need at least one more strong CB before Monday night.

A CM is also undoubtedly needed:D

Lord TSC

Coat22 wrote: »

The amount of people on here trying to convince themselves we don’t need another CB is laughable

For me, it's devising a list of priorities.

What I came away from the first two games with (and I'm largely ignoring the cup game due to the team played) is that we're lacking a spark, both creatively and defensively, in the center of the field. Our problems stemmed from being unable to score as much as they did from being able to stop goals going in. For me, right now, the priorities are...

CM
CM
RB
CB
Striker

...in that order. The right CM signings would help with the defensive problems AND the creative problems. We need a proper RB in too since when Raf is injured, we're having to play makeshift right backs.

At this stage, I think that a new CB and a new Striker will be the main priorities next summer. We need to focus 100% on the center right now.

Past30Now

Coat22 wrote: »

You’re having a laugh aren’t you?

If the first 3 games of the season have done one thing for us it is to expose this ridiculous notion that United can get by playing 2 out of Jones/Smalling/Evans each week. Assuming Rojo turns out to be competent as a CB then we’re probably looking at Jones/Evans/Rojo as a back 3 in a 3-5-2 or Jones/Evans and Rojo in a 4-4-2 and that’s assuming Shaw is back and Rojo isn’t needed on the left.

Jones has started brightly and maybe its time to give him his chance but Smalling has been found out as has Evans. Both are capabale on their day but consistently they cannot do it at this level.

The amount of people on here trying to convince themselves we don’t need another CB is laughable – Rojo was a start, Blind would be an improvement but we need at least one more strong CB before Monday night.

A CM is also undoubtedly needed:D

I'd love for us to sign Kompany and Pique, but that isn't going to happen. I seriously doubt that we are going to sign a CB plus Blind this transfer window.

KH25

Coat22 wrote: »

You’re having a laugh aren’t you?

If the first 3 games of the season have done one thing for us it is to expose this ridiculous notion that United can get by playing 2 out of Jones/Smalling/Evans each week. Assuming Rojo turns out to be competent as a CB then we’re probably looking at Jones/Evans/Rojo as a back 3 in a 3-5-2 or Jones/Evans and Rojo in a 4-4-2 and that’s assuming Shaw is back and Rojo isn’t needed on the left.

Jones has started brightly and maybe its time to give him his chance but Smalling has been found out as has Evans. Both are capabale on their day but consistently they cannot do it at this level.

The amount of people on here trying to convince themselves we don’t need another CB is laughable – Rojo was a start, Blind would be an improvement but we need at least one more strong CB before Monday night.

A CM is also undoubtedly needed:D

No I'm not. I believe that Jones Smalling and Evans all have it in them to be very good CB's. Then to add to that we have Rojo, Raf, Shaw and Blackett (who has impressed me).

Our performances haven't been solely down to the defence. The midfield is non-existent at the moment so the defence is being overrun by the opposition. CM is our biggest weakness and I think that is painfully obvious to us all. It's the spine of the team. If we take out what we have now and replace it with a strong solid midfield, suddenly the whole team will improve.

Coat22

Lord TSC wrote: »

For me, it's devising a list of priorities.

What I came away from the first two games with (and I'm largely ignoring the cup game due to the team played) is that we're lacking a spark, both creatively and defensively, in the center of the field. Our problems stemmed from being unable to score as much as they did from being able to stop goals going in. For me, right now, the priorities are...

CM
CM
RB
CB
Striker

...in that order. The right CM signings would help with the defensive problems AND the creative problems. We need a proper RB in too since when Raf is injured, we're having to play makeshift right backs.

At this stage, I think that a new CB and a new Striker will be the main priorities next summer. We need to focus 100% on the center right now.

I’m with you in terms of priorities although not sure why we need 2 CMs when we have Herrara to come in as well, who if he has a strong defensive mid fielder besaide him, should be able to provide some creative spark.

I’d be happy with a CM and a CB – agree if it was to be either or then a CM but hopefully we can get both as the options there at the moment are not CL standard.

RB is a 2015 one for me, I would rather wait and replace Rafael next summer when things have settled down. Himself and Valencia and either of the 2 kids from the other night should do for now.

Next summer should see a new striker to replace RVP who will be 32 by then. Hopefully we’ll have sorted out the other areas of the team (bar RB) which would allow us to concentrate on bringin in 2 quality players in these positions then.

Crimson King

On the one hand I am delighted the club are investing and tbh two months ago would have totally settled for the Carvalho signing, it's only the carrot of Vidal that is making me have any doubts tbh.

However, and its not a criticsm of VG, but if we do sign him then that's three of Moyes's targets signed with 'only' Di Maria and Rojo being 100% targets during VG's time. I just find it interesting that he thinks these signings were ok to pursue, and not for example the other targets (like Fabregras or Kroos). anyway its patently obvious that if we sign Carvalho he would be an improvement to our midfield options so for that reason alone am all for it.

TheDoc

Multiple reports that LVG wants Kagawa,Cleverly and Wellbeck gone ASAP to make room for Blind and Vidal.

TheTownie

TheDoc wrote: »

Multiple reports that LVG wants Kagawa,Cleverly and Wellbeck gone ASAP to make room for Blind and Vidal.

TheDoc

Also Alonso having medical at Bayern. Few claims that Real want Vidal and Falcao signed this week.

Leroy42

TheDoc wrote: »

Multiple reports that LVG wants Kagawa,Cleverly and Wellbeck gone ASAP to make room for Blind and Vidal.

Good, a few more need to go as well but for the moment it would be a start

I would keep Chico, on the absis that's it always good to have s fox in the box for the last 20 minutes of games

Spazdarn

TheDoc wrote: »

Multiple reports that LVG wants Kagawa,Cleverly and Wellbeck gone ASAP to make room for Blind and Vidal.

Still feel like there could be a place for Kagawa, he looked poor at times last season because all of the players around him were too dumb to make the right runs, play the right ball.

With better players in midfield beside him, he could still contribute.

Lord TSC

Coat22 wrote: »

I’m with you in terms of priorities although not sure why we need 2 CMs when we have Herrara to come in as well, who if he has a strong defensive mid fielder besaide him, should be able to provide some creative spark.

I’d be happy with a CM and a CB – agree if it was to be either or then a CM but hopefully we can get both as the options there at the moment are not CL standard.

RB is a 2015 one for me, I would rather wait and replace Rafael next summer when things have settled down. Himself and Valencia and either of the 2 kids from the other night should do for now.

Next summer should see a new striker to replace RVP who will be 32 by then. Hopefully we’ll have sorted out the other areas of the team (bar RB) which would allow us to concentrate on bringin in 2 quality players in these positions then.

I'd have a second CM as a back up option, and then hopefully shove Cleverly & Anderson out the door. Options should be Herrera, DiMaria, Vidal and (Carvalho/Blind/someone else). Those four, with Carrick, Fellaini and Fletcher as 5th, 6th and 7th, would be our midfield sorted for quite a while to come. The cover at CB, to me, is better than the cover at CM, in terms of quality. Thats not saying much, mind.

As for "CL Quality", we don't have CL football to worry about this year, so am happy enough to get CL football this year with a strong built midfield, and then worry about trying to upgrading center back next year.

redbaron_99

DDG

Jones-Rojo
Rafeal

---

Shaw

Carvalho--Herrera
Mata

Rooney

---

Di Maria
RVP

Works for me

Coat22

KH25 wrote: »

No I'm not. I believe that Jones Smalling and Evans all have it in them to be very good CB's. Then to add to that we have Rojo, Raf, Shaw and Blackett (who has impressed me).

Our performances haven't been solely down to the defence. The midfield is non-existent at the moment so the defence is being overrun by the opposition. CM is our biggest weakness and I think that is painfully obvious to us all. It's the spine of the team. If we take out what we have now and replace it with a strong solid midfield, suddenly the whole team will improve.

See this is the problem with United since the last few years of Ferguson – “have it in them to be very good CBs” – they’ve “had it in them” for years – this is Evans 8th or 9th season since he looked decent while on loan at Sunderland – he’s played 115 times and yet is still potential? Smalling has had 4 years and Jones 3 (although both have admittedly been played out of position in their time).

The others are not CBs – apart from Rojo who allegedly is and Blackett who is very raw.

United need to replace Vidic in particular with someone who is CL standard now – not wait until Blackett grows up or the 3 amigos suddenly discover form. When Stam left we tried to get by for 5 years before we replaced him with Vidic and suffered accordingly – we can’t afford to wait anymore for potential.

Maximus Alexander

TheDoc wrote: »

Multiple reports that LVG wants Kagawa,Cleverly and Wellbeck gone ASAP to make room for Blind and Vidal.

I'm disappointed that Kagawa didn't work out, sad that Cleverley never became the player he looked like he might be when he first came on the scene, and I have a bad feeling we would live to regret letting Welbeck go.

But, if the three of them leaving makes way for Blind and Vidal, that's a much better looking squad.

Necronomicon

TheDoc wrote: »

Multiple reports that LVG wants Kagawa,Cleverly and Wellbeck gone ASAP to make room for Blind and Vidal.

Ogden added Hernandez and Anderson to that list in his article about Carvalho.

homerjay2005

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I'm disappointed that Kagawa didn't work out, sad that Cleverley never became the player he looked like he might be when he first came on the scene, and I have a bad feeling we would live to regret letting Welbeck go.

But, if the three of them leaving makes way for Blind and Vidal, that's a much better looking squad.

its too late now for all them deals to go through. 2, max 3 but no way will all 5 happen, there just isnt enough time left.

add in the multiple loan deals for young lads that will inevitably happen plus Ando and Zaha going out, i cant see it all happening.

Maximus Alexander

Amidst all the ire directed towards Cleverley, people tend to forget that Anderson really needs to get gone.

MagicIRL

Saying it all summer; wouldn't be surprised if Vidal was let pass and Strootman comes in January.

Coat22

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'd have a second CM as a back up option, and then hopefully shove Cleverly & Anderson out the door. Options should be Herrera, DiMaria, Vidal and (Carvalho/Blind/someone else). Those four, with Carrick, Fellaini and Fletcher as 5th, 6th and 7th, would be our midfield sorted for quite a while to come. The cover at CB, to me, is better than the cover at CM, in terms of quality. Thats not saying much, mind.

As for "CL Quality", we don't have CL football to worry about this year, so am happy enough to get CL football this year with a strong built midfield, and then worry about trying to upgrading center back next year.

I think we will need CL quality players if we are to qualify for next season’s CL – Liverpools problems on Monday night against City showed that unless you have players of this standard you can be badly exposed and if we are to finish 3rd or 4th (realistically 4th) we will need to be better than Arsenal / Liverpool and for me that means having CL quality players in all (or almost all) positions.

TheDoc

Unfortunately in our circumstances cant keep players happy with out league games.Can't hold onto luxuries and should offload to make room for critical signings.

TheDoc

I like Kagawa, but he's unfortunately second choice no.10. Januz seen as future no.10, but can play wide effectively too.So easy decision to let him go imo

redbaron_99

MagicIRL wrote: »

Saying it all summer; wouldn't be surprised if Vidal was let pass and Strootman comes in January.

Saying it all summer, strootman won't be on the move in January.

Maximus Alexander

homerjay2005 wrote: »

its too late now for all them deals to go through. 2, max 3 but no way will all 5 happen, there just isnt enough time left.

add in the multiple loan deals for young lads that will inevitably happen plus Ando and Zaha going out, i cant see it all happening.

I fear that with it being United you're probably right. These things seem to be able to happen at lightning pace at other clubs when necessary.

TheDoc

MagicIRL wrote: »

Saying it all summer; wouldn't be surprised if Vidal was let pass and Strootman comes in January.

Well if you want to hear something disgusting, some outlets in Spain are reporting Real Madrid are looking to secure Vidal and Falcao.Khedira,Alonso,Illerminardi and Isco seemingly on way out.

Lord TSC

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Amidst all the ire directed towards Cleverley, people tend to forget that Anderson really needs to get gone.

I think if we could have been shot of him, we would be; I think we'll be seeing a run down contract on that one sadly...

Unearthly

MagicIRL wrote: »

Saying it all summer; wouldn't be surprised if Vidal was let pass and Strootman comes in January.

With Carvalho now?

That would be an acceptable alternative

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

I think if we could have been shot of him, we would be; I think we'll be seeing a run down contract on that one sadly...

Baffles me why clubs don't have breakout clauses,incase of longerm injury, lack of games played.Suprises me they don't.

Coat22

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Amidst all the ire directed towards Cleverley, people tend to forget that Anderson really needs to get gone.

Anderson would be gone if anyone would take him – I don’t think he’ll feature for United again this season now that the league cup is gone – as someone said he’s exactly what we need just the worst version of it in CM.

Cleverly has to go for his own sake. Its funny how Smalling / Evans / Jones are given so much more time than he to prove himself but he’s never going to be a united standard lpayer and should go before it ruins his career totally.

Spazdarn

TheDoc wrote: »

Well if you want to hear something disgusting, some outlets in Spain are reporting Real Madrid are looking to secure Vidal and Falcao.Khedira,Alonso,Illerminardi and Isco seemingly on way out.

Alonso to Bayern is done as far as I know...

homerjay2005

a theory - anybody think the performances and results are related to this alleged clearout thats going on?

i mean a shed load of players have left and if rumours are to be believed, then theres more to go also.

we had a sensational pre season and then suddenly since we came back, things have gone badly wrong. of course there are many factors and it could be a coincidence, but do you think that morale is low within the camp since more players were told they could leave?

MagicIRL

TheDoc wrote: »

Well if you want to hear something disgusting, some outlets in Spain are reporting Real Madrid are looking to secure Vidal and Falcao.Khedira,Alonso,Illerminardi and Isco seemingly on way out.

Can we have all 5? They're absolutely crazy the way they buy and sell!

redbaron_99

homerjay2005 wrote: »

a theory - anybody think the performances and results are related to this alleged clearout thats going on?

i mean a shed load of players have left and if rumours are to be believed, then theres more to go also.

we had a sensational pre season and then suddenly since we came back, things have gone badly wrong. of course there are many factors and it could be a coincidence, but do you think that morale is low within the camp since more players were told they could leave?

Could well be an element of that, yes.
I think injuries are playing the biggest role in our performances though. The team in each of the three games has been unbalanced and seriously lacking in pace in the middle third.

Coat22

TheDoc wrote: »

Well if you want to hear something disgusting, some outlets in Spain are reporting Real Madrid are looking to secure Vidal and Falcao.Khedira,Alonso,Illerminardi and Isco seemingly on way out.

Oh the irony if Madrid take the cash united gave them for Di Maria and use it to buy the player they actually needed.

TheDoc

homerjay2005 wrote: »

a theory - anybody think the performances and results are related to this alleged clearout thats going on?

i mean a shed load of players have left and if rumours are to be believed, then theres more to go also.

we had a sensational pre season and then suddenly since we came back, things have gone badly wrong. of course there are many factors and it could be a coincidence, but do you think that morale is low within the camp since more players were told they could leave?

Really good point.Pre-season lads were out to impress, deflated once told they can leave?Flipside, why are players told to leave, playing at all?

hufpc8w3adnk65

MagicIRL wrote: »

Can we have all 5? They're absolutely crazy the way they buy and sell!

Just thinking the same! Carvahollo and Vidal be great but I'd take Alonso and De Jong!

TheDoc

MagicIRL wrote: »

Can we have all 5? They're absolutely crazy the way they buy and sell!

I would snap up Illiermenardi(you can fix the spelling there for me) and Khedira. Isco would be a luxury.

TheDoc

Coat22 wrote: »

Oh the irony if Madrid take the cash united gave them for Di Maria and use it to buy the player they actually needed.

That is what is being touted. Ancelloti was under pressure to play Isco and Iller last season.Seemingly has told Perez they are not in his plans.

Spazdarn

Alonso for 8 million pounds. Cheap enough for a player still playing at a very high level.

MagicIRL

TheDoc wrote: »

I would snap up Illiermenardi(you can fix the spelling there for me) and Khedira. Isco would be a luxury.

We'll just call him Tom

But seriously, would love to see Tom at United. Vidal is incredible, but I think I would prefer to raid Real Madrid and their functioning knees! :pac:

homerjay2005

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Could well be an element of that, yes.
I think injuries are playing the biggest role in our performances though. The team in each of the three games has been unbalanced and seriously lacking in pace in the middle third.

of course Injuries is a problem, but dont forget we went to the states without several players and got some injuries in the first 2 or 3 games too.

TheDoc wrote: »

Really good point.Pre-season lads were out to impress, deflated once told they can leave?Flipside, why are players told to leave, playing at all?

totally agree. it was really poor from LVG to put them all in one team the last night. hence perhaps, why he said he wasnt shocked with the result.

we could easily have picked a team the last night that didnt include 3 or 4 players who are on the way out.

paulbok

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'd have a second CM as a back up option, and then hopefully shove Cleverly & Anderson out the door. Options should be Herrera, DiMaria, Vidal and (Carvalho/Blind/someone else). Those four, with Carrick, Fellaini and Fletcher as 5th, 6th and 7th, would be our midfield sorted for quite a while to come. The cover at CB, to me, is better than the cover at CM, in terms of quality. Thats not saying much, mind.

As for "CL Quality", we don't have CL football to worry about this year, so am happy enough to get CL football this year with a strong built midfield, and then worry about trying to upgrading center back next year.

Yes. At this stage, get the midfield right, ideally to CL standard so it doesn't need to be touched next year. Do that and the defense will be ok for getting 3rd/4th.
Then next year upgrade the defense. Raf/Jones/Evans/Smalling have a year to prove themselves and if not, adios in 2015.
The strikers can also be looked at if needed then as well depending on form/injuries/age of Rooney & RVP.

Midfield needs to be sorted now. If we just end up with adding a deJong/Blind type player, we'll be in the same position next Summer.

Will I Amnt

Coat22 wrote: »

Oh the irony if Madrid take the cash united gave them for Di Maria and use it to buy the player they actually needed.

I'd rather have Di Maria and no Vidal than no Di Maria and no Vidal.