Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

KH25

Agree. Woodward has to go if this window is another bust. Hopefully the Glazers agree on that.

2moreMinutes

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Our Wage structure is a joke too.

In what way?

twam2008

I think we'd be mad to let Woodward go, he's done incredible work on the commercial side of things, he's just not cut out for transfer business.

DM_7

I hate to bring it up, but United finished 7th last season and were still able to get a mega deal from Adidas.

I don't think Woodward will be sacked over a few signings.

The_Kew_Tour

2moreMinutes wrote: »

In what way?

at least 5 or 6 players are on at least double what they deserve and in some cases treble.

homerjay2005

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Our Wage structure is a joke too.

this....our wages for last season were £181 million. one of the worst squads in top flight football and they were getting paid insane money.

for that wage bill, we should be challenging on all front, not finishing 7th.

half of them should have given back half their wages. it sickens you when you think of it.

Larry Wildman

twam2008 wrote: »

I think we'd be mad to let Woodward go, he's done incredible work on the commercial side of things, he's just not cut out for transfer business.

Just appoint someone else to deal with transfers.

KH25

2moreMinutes wrote: »

In what way?

Ashley Young.

OctavarIan

homerjay2005 wrote: »

any idea who this is? somebody has suggest it was Sanchez, but honestly ive no idea who this could be...its defo not Vermaelen.

If it's true then someone, likely multiple people, at Utd need a pointed boot up the arse. You can't rake in record breaking sponsorships, spend £120m on four players, publicly state that money isn't an issue, then haggle over what is a couple month's worth of Rio Ferdinand's wages.

Your Airbag

Neville and Carragher on our 3-5-2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdF9B85DUMA

homerjay2005

DM-ICE wrote: »

I hate to bring it up, but United finished 7th last season and were still able to get a mega deal from Adidas.

I don't think Woodward will be sacked over a few signings.

all good in theory, but we are a football club and its our results that matter.

Ed Woodward - lethal commercial director, sh*t Football CEO.

kippy

adox wrote: »

I'm talking about the last 12 months or so.

The past 12 months are a result of previous years lack of investment.

United bought a lot of overpriced, young, generally english players and hoped that the few academy players who showed some promise would come through for them.
Unfortunately, Smalling, Jones, Cleverly havent worked out and the club losing 3 almost first choice defenders this season has left them woefully exposed. That coupled with Cleverly not pushing on, fletchers demise and carricks age as well as Young and Valencias form, has left the club in a pretty rough situation.
Granted, one that can be recovered from IF they buy the right players (with this apparent wad of cash they have) but from previous experience at this point its hard to see 5 years of relatively poor transfers change to 2 weeks of epic ones.

I realise I've changed my tune a lot on this, but at this point, looking at the situation its hard to see what else one can summarise it as.

How Soon Is Now

twam2008 wrote: »

I think we'd be mad to let Woodward go, he's done incredible work on the commercial side of things, he's just not cut out for transfer business.

Thats why im saying move him into an area hes suited to. From the look of things hes clearly not able to deal with transfers!.

Larry Wildman

As predicted by many people, Fabregas looking like a footballing god tonight.

No value in the market. £30m? We probably wouldn't go a penny over £29m.

Montroseee

Larry Wildman wrote: »

As predicted by many people, Fabregas looking like a footballing god tonight.

No value in the market. £30m? We probably wouldn't go a penny over £29m.

Matic looking like a boss aswell, would love a player like him here.

Larry Wildman

Montroseee wrote: »

Matic looking like a boss aswell, would love a player like him here.

"No value in the market"

The world knows how desperate our situation is...if I was a selling club I'd be ramping up the price and looking to stitch United up.

Pro. F

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Too much was made of preseason anyway. Any poster who pointed that out was called a Moaning Michael.

The Madrid game was good, but Madrid are two weeks behind United in preparation as their season starts later. Others did point out that the United CBs struggled when Liverpool pressed in the first half and couldn't make the needed passes to get past it, Liverpool obviously couldn't keep pressing to that extent as they weren't fit enough.

There were signs in preseason that issues were still there, but posters who pointed it out were branded kill-joys.

United have serious issues, top four looks a right battle, every poster on here hopes united manage to sort it out. Pointing to these issues is not a crime however.

I don't think that's true. I had some strong enough criticism of how the team were doing in pre-season but I don't remember anybody calling me names for expressing it.

twam2008

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Thats why im saying move him into an area hes suited to. From the look of things hes clearly not able to deal with transfers!.

That's all I've been saying since I've been on here. Think things will be sorted out, we should pick up a couple of defenders and make do once players are back and do some business in January. Van Gaal can't be happy with the situation and I'm hoping he can change things on the transfer front.

Vinz Mesrine

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Thats why im saying move him into an area hes suited to. From the look of things hes clearly not able to deal with transfers!.

If it's any consolation, Liverpool are in the same boat with Ian Ayre, fantastic on the business side of things but shouldn't be relied upon for player transfers, despite how well he did on the Moreno deal.

DM_7

homerjay2005 wrote: »

all good in theory, but we are a football club and its our results that matter.

Ed Woodward - lethal commercial director, sh*t Football CEO.

Your opinion of him seems to be going up.

As I said in my last post other parts if the company appear to working very well so I don't expect him to be moving on any time soon. I am not going to get into a big debate about it.

2moreMinutes

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

at least 5 or 6 players are on at least double what they deserve and in some cases treble.

Coincidentally someone at work said to me today that our wage structure was a joke as we constantly refuse to pay big wages and so can't attract the big names. I just laughed at him.
It's unfair of me to do so but I was hoping you were going down the same road as he was!

Larry Wildman

How have things been allowed to get to this point?

There are less than two weeks of the window to go. The season has started and we're 0/1 with a humiliating home defeat to a mickey mouse outfit chalked up already. Any new signings will take time to integrate. We're likely to be charged a "desperation tax".

What do we actually need? I'd say at a minimum, a left back, a right back, a centre half and a midfielder. The latter two need to be "world class first teamers. Arguably we need another centre half and another midfielder too plus a winger.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Players dictating when they go, and subsequently going for peanuts, has been a problem for a while now. I dont have a problem with Rio, Vida etc, in the same way I dont think we should have cashed in on Giggs in his mid 30s. But mediocre, underperforming players seem to be allowed to stay on the wage bill in the squad until they decide they want to play more. The days of the hughes/ince/kanchelskis clear out are a distant memory, and we will be stuck with a squad of Cleverleys, Andersons and Valencias for at least another year because of it. Three weeks since the manager said the squad was "broken", not one player has come in or gone out.

bangkok

the amount of crap going on about woodward and yet not 1 person knows whats going on behind the scenes. he already signed shaw and herrera, both long term deals. moyes gets sacked and a new manager comes in, needs a few weeks to see what needs improving, like he said he would. key players missing for first game.

fully fit squad and our team would be lining out as follows...

---

de gea

---

rafael

---

jones

---

evans

---

shaw

---

carrick

---

---

Herrera

---

fletcher

---

Mata

---

---

rooney

---

rvp

---

subs.
lindegarrd
smalling
welbeck
hernandez
valencia
kagawa
nani

in the stand...
young
cleverly
fellaini
blackett
zaha
etc
etc

that is an excellent team/squad and with the addition of one or 2 more big names, di maria, strootman maybe and another quality defender its back to the good times

OctavarIan

Larry Wildman wrote: »

As predicted by many people, Fabregas looking like a footballing god tonight.

His pass at the end of the Schurrle move was ridiculous.

glued

If Woodward was the problem van Gaal would of said something ridiculously obscene and unprofessional about him at this stage.

The likes of Delaney are willing to put any old spiel about Woodward that generates clicks. I doubt he even believes that rubbish. The missing out on a player over £2M is so fake and outlandish because he's exactly the kind of guy that would sell his soul to get such a story and he has had no problems printing names to fit in with his speculative vague theories in the past.

Even the guys who associate themselves with the gutter journalists that hover around fanzine sites waiting to print a story about nothing recognise that their is a clear and deliberate effort to print stories about Man Utd's transfer failings. These stories were written weeks ago in anticipation of this happening. Unfortunately hiring a coach who was working at the World Cup was always going to create a problem like this. There is no doubt that the club have failed in this regard to upgrade the squad.

The burden for this failing is on van Gaal too. The club lacks any real direction at the minute and the kind of pissing about at the minute is exactly what will see us sitting 7th in the PL again in May.

Both van Gaal and Woodward need to make something happen.

Larry Wildman

bangkok wrote: »

the amount of crap going on about woodward and yet not 1 person knows whats going on behind the scenes. he already signed shaw and herrera, both long term deals. moyes gets sacked and a new manager comes in, needs a few weeks to see what needs improving, like he said he would. key players missing for first game.

fully fit squad and our team would be lining out as follows...

---

de gea

---

rafael

---

jones

---

evans

---

shaw

---

carrick

---

---

Herrera

---

fletcher

---

Mata

---

---

rooney

---

rvp

---

subs.
lindegarrd
smalling
welbeck
hernandez
valencia
kagawa
nani

in the stand...
young
cleverly
fellaini
blackett
zaha
etc
etc

that is an excellent team/squad and with the addition of one or 2 more big names, di maria, strootman maybe and another quality defender its back to the good times

It really isn't an excellent squad.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Pro. F wrote: »

I don't think that's true. I had some strong enough criticism of how the team were doing in pre-season but I don't remember anybody calling me names for expressing it.

Fair enough, I'd disagree but what harm

bangkok

Larry Wildman wrote: »

How have things been allowed to get to this point?

There are less than two weeks of the window to go. The season has started and we're 0/1 with a humiliating home defeat to a mickey outfit chalked up already. Any new signings will take time to integrate. We're likely to be charged a "desperation tax".

What do we actually need? I'd say at a minimum, a left back, a right back, a centre half and a midfielder. The latter two need to be "world class first teamers. Arguably we need another centre half and another midfielder too plus a winger.

?! we were missing 6 first team starters v swansea.... and they are no "mickey outfit" side as you put it. absolute zero respect for the 2nd best passing side in england last season

homerjay2005

DM-ICE wrote: »

Your opinion of him seems to be going up.

I would have no problem with Woodward remaining a club employee, as he appears to be great for bringning in money or at least, is part of a great team who have grown the club off the pitch.

however, i dont think anybody can deny (despite what does or doesnt happen in the next 2 weeks) that his role on the football side, has been an unmitigated disaster.


last summer everybody said he is out of his depth in the job - 12 months later thats still there.

hopefully had pulls off 2 or 3 big deals in the next 2 weeks (with help from whoever can help him) and then has the decency to appoint a new CEO and puts himself back into revenue generation.

its a pity really, as he has ruined himself by whats happened and from now on, is only fighting fires that he, himself has started.

Montroseee

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Players dictating when they go, and subsequently going for peanuts, has been a problem for a while now. I dont have a problem with Rio, Vida etc, in the same way I dont think we should have cashed in on Giggs in his mid 30s. But mediocre, underperforming players seem to be allowed to stay on the wage bill in the squad until they decide they want to play more. The days of the hughes/ince/kanchelskis clear out are a distant memory, and we will be stuck with a squad of Cleverleys, Andersons and Valencias for at least another year because of it. Three weeks since the manager said the squad was "broken", not one player has come in or gone out.

I honestly believe having some of the squad populated with absolute dross /deadwood is poison and has a negative impact on the rest of the squad. Arsenal had the same problem a few years ago with the likes of Santos/Denilson/Park/Benny etc. and Liverpool more recently. The need for a cull is huge IMO, hopefully these players can be moved on within the next few transfer windows.

Nailz

Take out Fletcher, bring in Fellaini, then you have our best first 11 as it stands. Darren was one of our worst players on Saturday (along with Mata), I don't think he'll be physically capable of playing that much football this season, or at least not consistently starting.

Fellaini, behind Herrera, is our second best midfielder.

How Soon Is Now

bangkok wrote: »

the amount of crap going on about woodward and yet not 1 person knows whats going on behind the scenes. he already signed shaw and herrera, both long term deals. moyes gets sacked and a new manager comes in, needs a few weeks to see what needs improving, like he said he would. key players missing for first game.

fully fit squad and our team would be lining out as follows...

---

de gea

---

rafael

---

jones

---

evans

---

shaw

---

carrick

---

---

Herrera

---

fletcher

---

Mata

---

---

rooney

---

rvp

---

subs.
lindegarrd
smalling
welbeck
hernandez
valencia
kagawa
nani

in the stand...
young
cleverly
fellaini
blackett
zaha
etc
etc

that is an excellent team/squad and with the addition of one or 2 more big names, di maria, strootman maybe and another quality defender its back to the good times

If and thats a big if they all perform. Big chunk of those players aint been worth a ****e for a good while now.

Cantstandsya

Poor old Ed, as long as I can remember United have been rubbish in the transfer window, be it on purpose or through incompetence I don't know. I'm sure everyone remembers signing Berbatov at the last minute, not to mention all the crap players bought after being linked with the likes of Ronaldinho and Ballack. I have no idea why anyone who claims to be a United fan is surprised that things are now exactly as they have always been in terms of transfers.

Regarding Woodward being rubbish at transfers compared to Gill, I remember a very similar situation when Peter Kenyon left for Chelsea and David Gill first took over. Chelsea then signed a few players and the talk was that Kenyon and stolen United's targets. This article considers how Arjen Robben ultimately signed for Chelsea. In particular, I think this passage is relevant:

"February 10th 2004: Robben wants United move but talks about transfer fee stall.

“It would be fantastic if I could play for Manchester, but at the moment I just have to wait,” said Robben. “For now I have to focus on the football.”

“Of course Arjen will be disappointed,” said the PSV president. “He had already visited Manchester United and I had agreed a deal in principle with Peter Kenyon for him to join them in the summer.”"

If the current paper talk is true then it's not hard to replace the name Robben with the likes of Kroos, Fabregas, Vidal, Alcantara. From my reading of things it seems that it is United's policy to hammer out everything about a deal, including player negotiations, before trying to arrange a price and then baulking when that player's club ask for the going rate for a top player. The only exception to this, ridiculously, seems to be English prospects for whom United seem endlessly willing to pay over the odds for despite generally getting a raw deal.

Also, I'd be very reluctant to pay all that much attention to football journalists knowledge of why United aren't signing players. They have shown over the window that they haven't got any reliable sources and are generally just making stuff up to fill papers, the likes of the Express and Jamie Jackson of the Guardian were particularly shameless when it came to trotting out any old nonsense as bait for United fans' collective clicks. I find no reason to give their "why United aren't signing X" articles any more respect than their endless run of baseless "why United are signing X" articles.

bucketybuck

Pro. F wrote: »

I don't think that's true. I had some strong enough criticism of how the team were doing in pre-season but I don't remember anybody calling me names for expressing it.

Oh, its definitely true.

homerjay2005

Cantstandsya wrote: »

Poor old Ed, as long as I can remember United have been rubbish in the transfer window, be it on purpose or through incompetence I don't know. I'm sure everyone remembers signing Berbatov at the last minute, not to mention all the crap players bought after being linked with the likes of Ronaldinho and Ballack. I have no idea why anyone who claims to be a United fan is surprised that things are now exactly as they have always been in terms of transfers.

im sorry, but this is nonsense. the berbatov deal was signed when we were European champions with arguably one of the best team and squad weve ever had in our history. we didnt need huge investment, just one player.

that team went on to retain the PL, won the CC, beaten on pens in the fa cup, won the CS and won the world club cup.

the other two deals you mentioned that didnt happen were followed by the above team being assembled, which led to perhaps the greatest successful period in our clubs history - 5 league titles, 3 domestic cups and 3 champions league finals, as well as world champions.

you cannot compare the farce of last summer, to what happened in the past - lets not forget weve spend £123m in the last year and probably only one player from our team on saturday would get into the starting 11 of our rivals.

Liam O

bangkok wrote: »

?! we were missing 6 first team starters v swansea.... and they are no "mickey outfit" side as you put it. absolute zero respect for the 2nd best passing side in england last season

And besides Rafael and Shaw there are no full backs in the squad with premier league experience, unless you count Blackett who hasn't played there in the league. How many of those 6 players would have stopped Lingard and Januzaj playing RB and Young playing LB with the respective starters out?

Larry Wildman

bangkok wrote: »

?! we were missing 6 first team starters v swansea.... and they are no "mickey outfit" side as you put it. absolute zero respect for the 2nd best passing side in england last season

Do you think it's acceptable for a club like Swansea (12th) to come to Old Trafford and win?

Pro. F

I think it's a reasonable possibility that Woodward and our negotiation tactics are the problem. If that is the case then soon enough van Gaal will run amok in public and we'll know.

I also think it's a reasonable possibility that we've had two slow summer windows because of having two new managers.

No matter how many articles Delaney and the like write, I'll wait for more evidence before I'll come to a conclusion. And I won't be worrying myself about their gossip.

Either ongoing transfer issues that can't be explained by managerial disruption or van Gaal flipping his lid publicly - that is what's needed for us to really know.

Liam O

People keep talking about spending 120m in the last year to make it sound bigger than it is. I'd regard a Summer window as the start of a new year with regards transfer activity.

RobbingBandit

Wouldn't be adversed to see Sir Alex take a hand in the transfers, he fecked up more than a few times over the years but he always had an eye for talent at knock down price and was never afraid to get dirty to get the player to sign, pipping City for Giggs by going to his house was always a favourite of mine.

bangkok

Larry Wildman wrote: »

It really isn't an excellent squad.

one of the best goalkeepers in the world, johnny evans solid centre half, new signing luke shaw one of the best young defenders in england, herrera class midfielder, carrick quality passer and then a trio of mata, rooney and rvp...

Cantstandsya

homerjay2005 wrote: »

im sorry, but this is nonsense. the berbatov deal was signed when we were European champions with arguably one of the best team and squad weve ever had in our history. we didnt need huge investment, just one player.

that team went on to retain the PL, won the CC, beaten on pens in the fa cup, won the CS and won the world club cup.

the other two deals you mentioned that didnt happen were followed by the above team being assembled, which led to perhaps the greatest successful period in our clubs history - 5 league titles, 3 domestic cups and 3 champions league finals, as well as world champions.

you cannot compare the farce of last summer, to what happened in the past - lets not forget weve spend £123m in the last year and probably only one player from our team on saturday would get into the starting 11 of our rivals.

The same type of people have been whinging about not buying top, marquee name players in exactly the same way that they are now for as long as I can remember. The fact that their whinging proved pointless as the team went on to win things despite not making the transfers these armchair transfer experts demanded doesn't diminish my point in the least.

It has been well known for years that the team needed strengthening in certain areas and I most certainly can compare then and now as the approach to the transfer market is exactly the same. It worked out ok then as the manager of the time was able to make the most out of what he had and the competition was different too.

I know United have a reputation for plastic fans and glory hunters but if all you want are big name signings and endless success then why not just go follow Real Madrid or dye your Man U jersey blue?

bangkok

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Do you think it's acceptable for a club like Swansea (12th) to come to Old Trafford and win?

no but look at the bigger picture, van gaal needs time, when it was 1-1 and rooney hit the bar would have been a different story had the ball of going in. also you called swansea a mickey outfit team just goes to show how little respect you have for them

twam2008

Cantstandsya wrote: »

The same type of people have been whinging about not buying top, marquee name players in exactly the same way that they are now for as long as I can remember. The fact that their whinging proved pointless as the team went on to win things despite not making the transfers these armchair transfer experts demanded doesn't diminish my point in the least.

It has been well known for years that the team needed strengthening in certain areas and I most certainly can compare then and now as the approach to the transfer market is exactly the same. It worked out ok then as the manager of the time was able to make the most out of what he had and the competition was different too.

I know United have a reputation for plastic fans and glory hunters but if all you want are big name signings and endless success then why not just go follow Real Madrid or dye your Man U jersey blue?

Players not playing out of position for the first game of the season would have been nice.

2moreMinutes

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Wouldn't be adversed to see Sir Alex take a hand in the transfers, he fecked up more than a few times over the years but he always had an eye for talent at knock down price and was never afraid to get dirty to get the player to sign, pipping City for Giggs by going to his house was always a favourite of mine.

He did? Who?

Will I Amnt

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Wouldn't be adversed to see Sir Alex take a hand in the transfers, he fecked up more than a few times over the years but he always had an eye for talent at knock down price and was never afraid to get dirty to get the player to sign, pipping City for Giggs by going to his house was always a favourite of mine.

You could kiss goodbye to a new centre mid :pac:

bangkok

2moreMinutes wrote: »

He did? Who?

i hope you are not serious?!

Larry Wildman

bangkok wrote: »

one of the best goalkeepers in the world, johnny evans solid centre half, new signing luke shaw one of the best young defenders in england, herrera class midfielder, carrick quality passer and then a trio of mata, rooney and rvp...

That's 8 players. These days to compete at the business end you need more quality than that.

And of those guys that you've named, I'd narrow it down to De Gea, Rooney and RVP.

The rest are prospects and "TBCs".

Cantstandsya

twam2008 wrote: »

Players not playing out of position for the first game of the season would have been nice.

I am the first to admit that United need a lot of new players. The team right now isn't good enough.

My point is that it didn't happen in the last year and Ed Woodward didn't start United being crap at transfers, they have been rubbish at them for years.