Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

Only last season did I really think RVP missed sitters at crucial times. In that three game spell where if he scores, Moyes simply survives the chop.

And personally I think it was because RVP was distancing himself from the mess,and not in a good frame of mind.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

And personally I think it was because RVP was distancing himself from the mess,and not in a good frame of mind.

I see what you did there in your above post; this could be classed as a work around :pac::pac:

NTMK

NTMK wrote: »

no idea on Rojo's permit and Di maria has an italien passport afaik

I think Di Maria could possible be available for selection on Saturday. It was mentioned yesterday.

Rojo no idea

MagicIRL

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Adnan was simply awful in that role on tuesday night before being moved out to the wing after 25 minutes and has been poor enough there last season.

so far, there is nothing to suggest he can play the number 10 role at top level.

He was playing CM with Powell @ 10 when he came on?

magnumbud

not sure if its been mentioned yet but warnock just confirmed palace are in for Zaha. papers this morning were saying loan with a view to permanent. i would hope that united keep the option of keeping him in case he goes and has a blinder of a season sell him next summer if he does nothing

beno619

TheDoc wrote: »

Only last season did I really think RVP missed sitters at crucial times. In that three game spell where if he scores, Moyes simply survives the chop.

Missed a big chance at the bernebua in his first season among others.

Again vs Welbeck he gets opportunities to make up for the misses.

homerjay2005

regarding Cleverly, why on earth are people so happy to see him go, with Anderson, Fletcher and an injured Fellaini the only other options?

cleverly is not great, but its sad to say he is our 3rd best CM after Herrera and Carrick at the moment, 4th if you include Fellaini who perhaps will stay now as he is injured.

i wouldnt want to see Cleverly go until we bring players in first.

MagicIRL wrote: »

He was playing CM with Powell @ 10 when he came on?

no, powell and Ando were in CM, Adnan in front of them, behind Welbeck and Hernandez

NTMK

something for the welbeck debators

TheDoc

beno619 wrote: »

Missed a big chance at the bernebua in his first season among others.

Again vs Welbeck he gets opportunities to make up for the misses.

But scored 20+ goals to help us reach the title. Wellbeck hardly endearing himself missing sitter after sitter.

homerjay2005

homerjay2005 wrote: »

regarding Cleverly, why on earth are people so happy to see him go, with Anderson, Fletcher and an injured Fellaini the only other options?

cleverly is not great, but its sad to say he is our 3rd best CM after Herrera and Carrick at the moment, 4th if you include Fellaini who perhaps will stay now as he is injured.

i wouldnt want to see Cleverly go until we bring players in first.



no, powell and Ando were in CM, Adnan in front of them, behind Welbeck and Hernandez

Sunderland match most recent reason to add to another 50 others. And he has a negative effect on fletcher's game when played together (suicide sideward passing).

Pereira should be promoted imo, and on a side note: as should Wilson in attack.

Maximus Alexander

What I wouldn't give for a convincing 5-0 victory on Saturday.

Billy86

TheDoc wrote: »

Only last season did I really think RVP missed sitters at crucial times. In that three game spell where if he scores, Moyes simply survives the chop.

He had something like a 10-12 game barren run in his first season here, and a lot of sitters were in there.

Maximus Alexander

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

What I wouldn't give for a convincing 5-0 victory on Saturday.

It's like a distant memory.

Bayern Leverkusen

adox

Adnan played CM I thought for at least the last half hour when Powell came off.

Billy86

Coat22 wrote: »

We should throw in Anderson for free and sit back and watch Keane lose the plot.

Villa fans still haven’t forgiven us for Djemba Djemba.

Swap for Vlaar? Would like it but unlikely.

While he is not up to standard at this level, I think Cleverly could do well for Villa. Gibson and to an extent Phil Neville were regarded as useless by a lot of people also before they left for Everton.

Likewise I don't think Vlaar would be a good signing. He has a good WC but so do plenty of players who are not as good as they appear. Happens all the time. Before the WC even at a lower level like Villa his play hadn't merited much of any attention at all.

adox

Agree as well about not letting Cleverly go. Its a numbers game unfortunately and we have a couple of injuries in what is still possibly the weakest part of the squad. So we are short of numbers there(and quality obviously).

Leroy42

Are people even tyring to compare RVp with Welback!!

The guy is just not consistent enough for a top striker, and not good enough as winger.

Welbeck is the exact type of player that has Utd in the mess we are in. Lots of players that are nearly good at lots of positions but not top class in any.

twam2008

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

What I wouldn't give for a convincing 5-0 victory on Saturday.

Said this to a work colleague yesterday, only I said 7. He said he'd be happy with 1. Brought me back down to earth

adox

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

What I wouldn't give for a 1-0 victory on Saturday.

FYP:)

kstand

Danny Welbeck in the England squad - just goes to show how poor they are.

sky88

a victory will do i dont care what score

TheDoc

Billy86 wrote: »

He had something like a 10-12 game barren run in his first season here, and a lot of sitters were in there.

It was much shorter then that, and after he had started the season with like 10 goals. Plus assists. And his godly ability to make a ball stick like glue.

bangkok

kstand wrote: »

Danny Welbeck in the England squad - just goes to show how poor they are.

so you don't think he is a good player then?

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

Agree as well about not letting Cleverly go. Its a numbers game unfortunately and we have a couple of injuries in what is still possibly the weakest part of the squad. So we are short of numbers there(and quality obviously).

I can only assume if Cleverly/Anderson is let go,a replacement is lined up.Club arn't that stupid surely.

TheDoc

kstand wrote: »

Danny Welbeck in the England squad - just goes to show how poor they are.

In the squad, not the starting XI anymore. Completely sidelined now with Sturridge and Sterling.

Billy86

Leroy42 wrote: »

Welbeck is the exact type of player that has Utd in the mess we are in. Lots of players that are nearly good at lots of positions but not top class in any.

I don't think anyone is saying Welbeck is as good as RVP, just saying that he has only really had one good run of games at #9 and scored goals during it, whereas even the best like RVP can struggle to find the net too.

Also when RVP was Welbeck's age he scored 5 league goals in 24 games for Arsenal. Last year Welbeck had 9 in 25 for us.

Welbeck is absolutely not "the type of player that has us in this mess"... he is just not of the calibre to lift us out of it on his own, yet at least. Prior to this window, IMO only DDG had that level of play (or RVP on form, which he was not) and he is" just" keeper which limits his influence.

The real problems in the squad were/are Young, Valencia, Anderson, Hernandez as anything but an impact sub, Fletcher since his illness, Cleverly looking not up to it at this level, Nani injuries looking to have killed his explosiveness, Evra and Fellaini. Also Phil Jones and Smallings performance levels were abysmal, but they each are Young enough to improve also (and Jones has been good the first two games).

Lucas Hood

Rooney new England captain.

Spazdarn

Welbeck's not great but he gives us a directness we don't seem to have anywhere else in the team (barring Di Maria now)

He should be kept ahead of Hernandez anyway

homerjay2005

kstand wrote: »

Danny Welbeck in the England squad - just goes to show how poor they are.

says alot when weve only 3 players in it (i know weve at least two more who are injured) and its the worst England squad ive ever seen.

i like England and support them due to the United connection, but i really hope they dont qualify so it finally wakes them up into establishing a proper grassroutes structure underage for developing players.

for a country with the population, history and resources they have, their national team is a complete joke now.

and im going to make a prediction, james Wilson will be a full international by the end of the season.

Lord TSC

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Rooney new England captain.

I just don't get it, but then I suppose England is as starved of a leader as we are...

Lucas Hood

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Rooney new England captain.

Source?

Maximus Alexander

TheDoc wrote: »

I can only assume if Cleverly/Anderson is let go,a replacement is lined up.Club arn't that stupid surely.

Anderson would be easy enough to replace. Get the tea lady in.



Of course that would doubtlessly cut off our primary source of transfer rumours.

Lord TSC

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Source?

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/504948124277026816

Maximus Alexander

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Anderson would be easy enough to replace. Get the tea lady in.



Of course that would doubtlessly cut off our primary source of transfer rumours.

Replace? It's more like an upgrade.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

In the squad, not the starting XI anymore. Completely sidelined now with Sturridge and Sterling.

he still started the first 2 world cup games for England, great player has pace power, will actually be sad if he leaves united and goes onto become what sturridge has for Liverpool because there is no doubt he has the potential to go to that level

cdb

Billy86 wrote: »

While he is not up to standard at this level, I think Cleverly could do well for Villa. Gibson and to an extent Phil Neville were regarded as useless by a lot of people also before they left for Everton.

Likewise I don't think Vlaar would be a good signing. He has a good WC but so do plenty of players who are not as good as they appear. Happens all the time. Before the WC even at a lower level like Villa his play hadn't merited much of any attention at all.

`
Disagree on the Vlaar bit, thought he looked very solid at the WC, something that is clearly lacking at the moment. Whether that was down to LVG working his magic or the Dutch midfield offering greater protection, (probably a combination of both) I thought he had a great tournament and would be very confident he could be a first choice at Utd.

Very unlikely we'll move for him but you never know - he would be an excellent addition and relatively inexpensive.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

he still started the first 2 world cup games for England, great player has pace power, will actually be sad if he leaves united and goes onto become what sturridge has for Liverpool because there is no doubt he has the potential to go to that level

Playing out wide, and occasionally swopping to play up front. He played those two games simply because of his pace.Anytime you hear Wellbeck, it's only because he has pace, not because he can score a goal.

UnitedIrishman

TheDoc wrote: »

But scored 20+ goals to help us reach the title. Wellbeck hardly endearing himself missing sitter after sitter.

Last season Welbeck had the fourth highest goals per minute (exc. Pens) ratio in the league. That's despite playing out wide a fair bit too.

Yeah he misses chances, but his ability to break behind defences gets him a lot more chance than say Hernandez or a lot of other attackers.

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

I just don't get it, but then I suppose England is as starved of a leader as we are...

Obvious choice.England no obvious leaders.Went with experience.Joe Hart and Gary Cahill his competition, laughable candidates.

Coat22

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Source?

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/aug/28/wayne-rooney-england-captain-jack-colback-squad

shrewdness

kstand wrote: »

Danny Welbeck in the England squad - just goes to show how poor they are.

Of all the comments about Welbeck here this is one of the most bizarre I have to say. He's been an England regular for a few years now and has done quite well for them, what makes you think he wasn't going to be in the squad? Can you name many better striker options? Rooney and Sturridge obviously but Welbeck is always going to be there after that.

The Welbeck dislike never fails to amuse me. He's no RVP and not good enough to lead the line for Man Utd in the long-term(i.e not world class) but name a better option for 3rd choice, as that's what he is. He is versatile too and I'd have Hernandez gone well before him. I couldn't blame him for wanting to leave as naturally he wants to play up front regularly, but in terms of getting rid of deadwood and trimming the squad, there'd be plenty I'd shift out before him. Given a long run as the main striker for a decent club, I've no doubt he'd be a good goalscorer. Not saying he'd be as good as him, but Sturridge going to Liverpool has given him a new lease of life and I could see something similar if Welbeck moves. In fact if he did go to Arsenal I think he'd do well with the supply he'd get, so no way should we consider that. He's still young so for people to write him off altogether is a bit premature.

TheDoc

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Last season Welbeck had the fourth highest goals per minute (exc. Pens) ratio in the league. That's despite playing out wide a fair bit too.

Yeah he misses chances, but his ability to break behind defences gets him a lot more chance than say Hernandez or a lot of other attackers.

Statistics perform part of the narrative, not THE narrative. how many goals did he score against top six sides last season?

Maximus Alexander

TheDoc wrote: »

Obvious choice.England no obvious leaders.Went with experience.Joe Hart and Gary Cahill his competition, laughable candidates.

Your dedication to the challenge is admirable. It makes you sound really busy, like you only have a couple of seconds to post before you rush off to do something else.

Lucas Hood

TheDoc wrote: »

Statistics perform part of the narrative, not THE narrative. how many goals did he score against top six sides last season?

I don't know the answer to this but I'd wonder how many games he played up front against the top 6.

TheDoc

http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=48971&season_id=143

Wellbeck Goals scored last season. One goal against side in top six. 13 in 46 appearances. 1 Assist. No stat for sitters missed.

TheDoc

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Your dedication to the challenge is admirable. It makes you sound really busy, like you only have a couple of seconds to post before you rush off to do something else.

It's really tough this week as I feel I've a lot to say.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=48971&season_id=143

Wellbeck Goals scored last season. One goal against side in top six. 13 in 46 appearances. 1 Assist. No stat for sitters missed.

Except the CL quarter final!!!

sky88

That is the worst England squad i have seen rooney is realistically the only choice for captain

Maximus Alexander

TheDoc wrote: »

It's really tough this week as I feel I've a lot to say.

But on the bright side, the number of people reading what you have to say has probably tripled.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

Playing out wide, and occasionally swopping to play up front. He played those two games simply because of his pace.Anytime you hear Wellbeck, it's only because he has pace, not because he can score a goal.

6 starts up front last season 6 goals