Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

SherlockWatson

MagicMarker wrote: »

Rojo won't play even if he does get a permit before Sunday, he's in Argentina.

Argentinian embassy in Spain no?

Adamocovic

Crazy how long Rojo work permit is taking, nothing to do with the third party ownership is it?

Also I would imagine we'd offload a few players before the window is closed, hard to see us bringing in many more top quality players though.

As others have already pointed out though, we don't need a big squad this year, shouldn't have many fitness issues with the lack of games we have.

20 Times 20 Times

Love LVG and his not one F*ck given attitude , Clear out the dead wood. He has earned my respect at how quickly he has dealt with this. He can have as long as he needs in my eyes.

DM_7

Cleverley is someone I had hopes for, not high ones but certainly squad level, someone that could improve like Fletcher did.

But he regressed last season generally, likely thanks to the role he was asked to play. Clearly his confidence is shot so his style of play v Sunderland was no surprise.

The things I was disappointed with are the improvements he should have made, his defensive positioning, reading of the game, poor decisions going into challenges and his lack of physical conditioning.

His frame is slight and short ao is always up against it but his strength could and should have improved a lot more than it did. His just made it worse when he inevitably gets caught out of position against a stronger opponent which he ends up trying to challenge from behind or the side and swatted away.

His best play was the season before last where his job was to link play and it suited his attributes as he had good back up from Carrick but he was never going to perform the defensive side well enough to survive van Gaals needs in a two man midfield. Not good enough to fill multiple roles in a smaller squad.

I hope he gets a chance to play a more attacking role with a new club, a three man midfield role will get the best from him.

shadowcomplex

Im really happy we are linked with Vidal and Carvalho ,one or both of them would be fantastic. Im not sure why we are being linked with Danny Blind though, fair enough if we don't get Vidal or Carvalho he can do a job in midfield but I think hes being linked as a defensive option, I don't think we will play 3 at the back for long and I don't think Rojo and Blind can play as centre halfs in a back 4, they seem more like competition for Shaw at left back. Im disappointed we aren't targeting a no nonsense centre half because we need one

redbaron_99

Adamocovic wrote: »

Crazy how long Rojo work permit is taking, nothing to do with the third party ownership is it?

Also I would imagine we'd offload a few players before the window is closed, hard to see us bringing in many more top quality players though.

As others have already pointed out though, we don't need a big squad this year, shouldn't have many fitness issues with the lack of games we have.

We need a central midfielder. No doubt about it. Carvalho would be the obvious choice, as we require a DM, but he can also fill in at CB. Two birds with one stone.

mufc1993

Anyone actually think we'll land a CB before Monday? We don't seem to be linked with anyone in that position from what I can see. Surely a CM is lined up now with TC leaving.

SherlockWatson

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Im not sure why we are being linked with Danny Blind though

Me neither, he's 53.

redbaron_99

shadowcomplex wrote: »

I don't think Rojo can play as centre half

Why? He is played quite often as a centre half

Adamocovic

redbaron_99 wrote: »

We need a central midfielder. No doubt about it. Carvalho would be the obvious choice, as we require a DM, but he can also fill in at CB. Two birds with one stone.

Although I have spoken many times how I want Phil Jones to remain in the centre to further his progression (I think he's very solid as a CB) I still think VG will play him in a DM role and even RB this year.

With Evans, Smalling and Rojo there for competition I wouldn't be surprised if he uses Jones in other positions

Agree that Carvalho would be a good signing! Hopefully we bring in a player like him before the window is closed.

Liam O

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Im really happy we are linked with Vidal and Carvalho ,one or both of them would be fantastic. Im not sure why we are being linked with Danny Blind though, fair enough if we don't get Vidal or Carvalho he can do a job in midfield but I think hes being linked as a defensive option, I don't think we will play 3 at the back for long and I don't think Rojo and Blind can play as centre halfs in a back 4, they seem more like competition for Shaw at left back. Im disappointed we aren't targeting a no nonsense centre half because we need one

Yeah, Danny Blind is well past it now and all that Rojo chap seems to want to do is travel the world. Can't see either of them as centre backs based on this.

Copper_pipe

Sky saying Spurs want Welbeck on loan. Hardly sell chico and loan out welbeck?

redbaron_99

Adamocovic wrote: »

Although I have spoken many times how I want Phil Jones to remain in the centre to further his progression (I think he's very solid as a CB) I still think VG will play him in a DM role and even RB this year.

With Evans, Smalling and Rojo there for competition I wouldn't be surprised if he uses Jones in other positions

Agree that Carvalho would be a good signing! Hopefully we bring in a player like him before the window is closed.

You might be right, but IMO Jones is perfectly suited to the right side of a defensive three. With Rojo being experienced on the left side of a defensive three.
Just not sure about Evans being in the middle of them..

adox

Just watched the press conference there and was really impressed with Di Maria. Seems fairly humble and hungry to do well. I know you can't judge too much into these type of things but I like him already.

Adamocovic

Has there been confirmation that VG is axing a lot of players? Haven't read back fully on thread but a lot saying he is getting rid of dead wood.

Said I'd post what I think will happen (or maybe what I'd like :P)

WHO I THINK WILL BE SOLD:
Lindegaard
Hernández
Kagawa
Anderson

WHO I THINK WE'LL LOAN:
Zaha
Varela
Vermijl
Janko
Periera
Will Keane
Powell
Lawrence
Johnstone
And probably more of the youths depending on how many players we bring in.

I'd rather we didn't let Cleverley or Welbeck go yet. I'd like to see how they do this season and I think Welbeck and Cleverley both would be needed at some points throughout the year.

Unearthly

No way I'd give Spurs Welbeck on loan.

If Levy wants him, £35 million + Verthongen

BloodBath

Is Van Gaal going to run with that 3-5-2 though? I thought it was only temporary to try and make the best use of what we had available.

Surely he will change things once the full squad is available.

3-5-2 is supposed to be not very effective against teams that play with a lone forward either.

Also where does Di Maria fit into that? Right wide back with shaw as left back? Dropping Rooney, Mata or Van Persie to accommodate him up front? Neither of those options make sense so I don't see him using that formation for much longer.

adox

Adamocovic wrote: »

Has there been confirmation that VG is axing a lot of players? Haven't read back fully on thread but a lot saying he is getting rid of dead wood.

Said I'd post what I think will happen (or maybe what I'd like :P)

WHO I THINK WILL BE SOLD:
Lindegaard
Hernández
Kagawa
Anderson

WHO I THINK WE'LL LOAN:
Zaha
Varela
Vermijl
Janko
Periera
Will Keane
Powell
Lawrence
Johnstone
And probably more of the youths depending on how many players we bring in.

I'd rather we didn't let Cleverley or Welbeck go yet. I'd like to see how they do this season and I think Welbeck and Cleverley both would be needed at some points throughout the year.

Zaha already gone to Palace on a season long loan and reports that Utd have accepted a bid of £8-£9 million for Cleverley.

Adamocovic

BloodBath wrote: »

Is Van Gaal going to run with that 3-5-2 though? I thought it was only temporary to try and make the best use of what we had available.

Surely he will change things once the full squad is available.

3-5-2 is supposed to be not very effective against teams that play with a lone forward either.

Also where does Di Maria fit into that? Right wide back with shaw as left back? Dropping Rooney, Mata or Van Persie to accommodate him up front? Neither of those options make sense so I don't see him using that formation for much longer.

Thats one of the reasons I can't wait until Saturday. See what VG does. He seems like hell try sticking with 3-5-2, he's spent so much time on it and seems like he wouldn't give up on it yet.. Still interesting to see how well lineup this week

Adamocovic

adox wrote: »

Zaha already gone to Palace on a season long loan and reports that Utd have accepted a bid of £8-£9 million for Cleverley.

Just back on the internet today ha is Zaha confirmed? Hopefully hell do better with Palace this time round.

Who are we selling Cleverley to? Bit disappointed I have an awful feeling if he goes he'll play a blinder with a new club just to spite all the people insulting him ha

case885

Adamocovic wrote: »

Just back on the internet today ha is Zaha confirmed? Hopefully hell do better with Palace this time round.

Who are we selling Cleverley to? Bit disappointed I have an awful feeling if he goes he'll play a blinder with a new club just to spite all the people insulting him ha

Why would he not just play well the past few games to save his united career instead of after being transferred? Will be glad to see the back of him no way is he up to this level not even the bench

Adamocovic

case885 wrote: »

Why would he not just play well the past few games to save his united career instead of after being transferred? Will be glad to see the back of him no way is he up to this level not even the bench

I'm just making the point that players in the past have had poor spells and have left a club and then done very well. When things were going great and we were winning the league Cleverley was called one of the players to watch for in the future.

I agree he had a very poor season last year but not many had a good one to be honest. Surely the criticism he was getting by fans and journalists a like did nothing good for his confidence.

If he does leave I hope he has a great career and can put the poor run behind him. Surely it's not that crazy to think he can go on and be successful elsewhere.

Rayne Wooney

Think we will sign Blind and Carvalho by deadline, it would finally be a good start to fixing the midfield along with Ander. Hopefully it pans out over the next few days

The two CL finals still haunt me, the midfield in the first one especially, defending champions with a midfield of Park, Giggs, Anderson and Carrick.

redbaron_99

Have a feeling tomorrow will be a busy day in the transfer market for us. Just got that feeling!

With all the players leaving, I would love us to get shot of Young. Replace him with Blind. Would love it!

The Pontiac

How many players do UTD need to have a squad as good as Chelsea and City?

I reckon another 12-13 players (quality players).

So I'd say 4-5 more windows. Van Gaal needs two years minimum before he can be really judged. In the meantime 4th place would be a fair achievement.

What a mess he inherited!

adox

Adamocovic wrote: »

Just back on the internet today ha is Zaha confirmed? Hopefully hell do better with Palace this time round.

Who are we selling Cleverley to? Bit disappointed I have an awful feeling if he goes he'll play a blinder with a new club just to spite all the people insulting him ha

Yeah Zaha confirmed by Utd themselves.

Villa are the club that made the bid for Cleverley.

redbaron_99

The Pontiac wrote: »

How many players do UTD need to have a squad as good as Chelsea and City?

I reckon another 12-13 players (quality players).

So I'd say 4-5 more windows. Van Gaal needs two years minimum before he can be really judged. In the meantime 4th place would be a fair achievement.

What a mess he inherited!

We need 12-13 players to match Chelsea?

Could you go into more detail? Would love to see this explained.

adox

The Pontiac wrote: »

How many players do UTD need to have a squad as good as Chelsea and City?

I reckon another 12-13 players (quality players).

So I'd say 4-5 more windows. Van Gaal needs two years minimum before he can be really judged. In the meantime 4th place would be a fair achievement.

What a mess he inherited!

Ah come on. 12-13 players? You gotta be kidding right?

3-4 more quality signings and we'd be right back at the races.

TheDoc

The Pontiac wrote: »

How many players do UTD need to have a squad as good as Chelsea and City?

I reckon another 12-13 players (quality players).

So I'd say 4-5 more windows. Van Gaal needs two years minimum before he can be really judged. In the meantime 4th place would be a fair achievement.

What a mess he inherited!

What are you smoking! GIMME!!1

MagicIRL

adox wrote: »

Ah come on. 12-13 players? You gotta be kidding right?

3-4 more quality signings and we'd be right back at the races.

Exactly. Once that start 11 is sorted then look to build the squad depth with a mix of youth and talent from outside. Then revamp the youth system.

LvG is here for to rebuild the team, not to win the league (imo)

The Pontiac

redbaron_99 wrote: »

We need 12-13 players to match Chelsea?

Could you go into more detail? Would love to see this explained.

Utd don't even have a decent first 11 at the moment, never mind a squad.

How many years does Van Persie have left? So that leaves UTD with how many world class players? World class as in Di Maria class.. Mata has hardly set the world alight and Rooney seems to be deteriorating every season..

DARK-KNIGHT

If we get the reported figure for cleverly Aston Villa fans are gonna be awful frustrated with midfield 😂😂😂

magnumbud

The Pontiac wrote: »

Utd don't even have a decent first 11 at the moment, never mind a squad.

How many years does Van Persie have left? So that leaves UTD with how many world class players? World class as in Di Maria class.. Mata has hardly set the world alight and Rooney seems to be deteriorating every season..

de gea shaw rojo jones rafael di maria herrera carrick mata rooney rvp is not a decent first 11?

BloodBath

I wouldn't even waste my time replying to that.

United don't have a good 11 and need 11-13 players to compete with Chelsea and City?

Good 1. Can I ask you who you support?

redbaron_99

The Pontiac wrote: »

Utd don't even have a decent first 11 at the moment, never mind a squad.

How many years does Van Persie have left? So that leaves UTD with how many world class players? World class as in Di Maria class.. Mata has hardly set the world alight and Rooney seems to be deteriorating every season..

I was going to explain, type out the united squad and the chelsea squad, compare them, say what I think we need, but... I really couldn't be arsed.

The Pontiac

adox wrote: »

Ah come on. 12-13 players? You gotta be kidding right?

3-4 more quality signings and we'd be right back at the races.

Seriously, 3 -4 more players won't even come close.

I'm talking about a squad, that is essential in the modern game.

Not talking about a squad of world class players, but decent backup.

UTD can't string two passes together. They're worse than woeful.

But the new signings are excellent. You can't just go out and buy quality players. How long did Fergie wait to sign Van Nistelrooy? It takes time..

thelad95

I wish people would stop with the childish jokes about Cleverley. This move is perfect for him, Villa is his level and he'll do fine their especially with less pressure on his shoulders.

It's ironic in a way that the only incisive bit of play I can remember him creating was against Villa last year.

Larry Wildman

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Every time you post it's sensationalist. And you seem to deal only in absolutes. And you seem determined that Van Gaal should be sacked at some point for whatever reason.

What if we are developing well, but finish in 5th? Would you demand VG be sacked? Then we can bring in yet another manager to start all over again? Another summer of unknowns - who will be in and who will be out? Another new beginning next August with dodgy results because the team is trying to adopt a new tactic or style?

And I love the way you view potential signings. You appear to know what these players will think of our club.

give me your opinion on who should be manager?

I don't think that it's unreasonable to assume that top level players with finite careers will eschew a club which hasn't played Champions League football in years. One year is probably an easy enough sell. But multiple years? The best players want to play in the Champions League. That's pretty obvious.

Re Van Gaal, if we narrowly miss out on fourth playing good football and there are clear signs of progress, then by all means he's doing a good job. However, what if the same insipid sh1te that we've seen so far continues and we finish seventh? In such circumstances, I would like to see Van Gaal fired. I have to say, I am underwhelmed at what I've seen so far but I reserve judgement.

Vis a vis alternatives, I would have tried to replace Fergie with Mourinho. Failing that, I would have tried for Ancellotti. Failing that, Klopp. I vehemently opposed Moyes' appointment from the start.

Adamocovic

thelad95 wrote: »

I wish people would stop with the childish jokes about Cleverley. This move is perfect for him, Villa is his level and he'll do fine their especially with less pressure on his shoulders.

It's ironic in a way that the only incisive bit of play I can remember him creating was against Villa last year.

What would be the biggest plus for his career in my view is Roy Keane helping him. Roy no doubt would be able to help improve Cleverley. And to be fair to Cleverley he seems like a player who puts in the work, even if it doesn't pay off sometimes.

DM_7

Still want de Jong over Blind, physical presence, experienced, played in the EPL (don't care who with :pac: ) knows van Gaal, reputation as dirty etc so not a player opposition would look forward to playing but rarely sent off, good at going deep and taking the ball from defence and geting things moving.

Good age profile so can contribute straight away but in seasons to follow would not get in the way of other players progressing.

Want that Carvalho type signing as well, young player van Gaal can coach and has the right physical attributes to go with ability.

BloodBath

The Pontiac wrote: »

Seriously, 3 -4 more players won't even come close.

I'm talking about a squad, that is essential in the modern game.

Not talking about a squad of world class players, but decent backup.

UTD can't string two passes together. They're worse than woeful.

But the new signings are excellent. You can't just go out and buy quality players. How long did Fergie wait to sign Van Nistelrooy? It takes time..

We have lots of developing youth. You really only need 2 options for each position and we have that for most. 3-4 more good signings will complete the squad which we have until next season to get. We really only need 1-2 more in this window.

We aren't City or Chelsea, we develop our own players, not buy the entire squad.

homerjay2005

Vlaar coming us, Cleverly going to Villa starting to do the rounds now.

more than likely, its just people putting 2 and 2 together...far too convenient that the Vlaar things only happens now once Villa put a bid in.

redbaron_99

Larry Wildman wrote: »

I don't think that it's unreasonable to assume that top level players with finite careers will eschew a club which hasn't played Champions League football in years. One year is probably an easy enough sell. But multiple years? The best players want to play in the Champions League. That's pretty obvious.

Re Van Gaal, if we narrowly miss out on fourth playing good football and there are clear signs of progress, then by all means he's doing a good job. However, what if the same insipid sh1te that we've seen so far continues and we finish seventh? In such circumstances, I would like to see Van Gaal fired. I have to say, I am underwhelmed at what I've seen so far but I reserve judgement.

Vis a vis alternatives, I would have tried to replace Fergie with Mourinho. Failing that, I would have tried for Ancellotti. Failing that, Klopp. I vehemently opposed Moyes' appointment from the start.

Multiple years out of the CL... Ok... I'm not even going there.

As for Van Gaal, you say you reserve judgement, but you clearly do not.

If you are underwhelmed after three games (one of a mix between youth and outcasts) you clearly lack vision and patience.

You used the term: "Vis a vis"

I asked who you want as a manager, not who you wanted to replace Fergie.

The Pontiac

magnumbud wrote: »

de gea shaw rojo jones rafael di maria herrera carrick mata rooney rvp is not a decent first 11?

So you think Michael Carrick is LVG's type of player? The guy is 33 anyways.

RVP should have been sold last year with his attitude towards Moyes. I still think he's an amazing player, but he's 31 and could get injured at any time.

I'm not totally sold on Mata either.

As Mourinho once said, in the modern game, you need two good players for every position. UTD aren't even close.

homerjay2005

id hazard a guess that LVG was talking about his former dutch players when he referenced the 24 hours thing a few days ago - if he doesnt get his targets, he knows that players like De Jong, Blind and Vlaar can be brought in with minimal fuss on sunday or monday if needed.

redbaron_99

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Vlaar coming us, Cleverly going to Villa starting to do the rounds now.

more than likely, its just people putting 2 and 2 together...far too convenient that the Vlaar things only happens now once Villa put a bid in.

I would actually like us to get Ron Vlaar. When he's not working as a stunt double for Jason Statham, he's quite a good defender.

Your Airbag

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Vlaar coming us, Cleverly going to Villa starting to do the rounds now.

more than likely, its just people putting 2 and 2 together...far too convenient that the Vlaar things only happens now once Villa put a bid in.

Please let this be true. Vlaar is immense, Dutch, 29yo and a CB.

Its a perfect fit.

billyhead

£9 million been quoted as the fee for Cleverly.

http://i.imgur.com/NUeVFnL.gif

Kirby

Except Villa wont want to sell him and he's worth more than that even if they did sell him.

Adamocovic

homerjay2005 wrote: »

id hazard a guess that LVG was talking about his former dutch players when he referenced the 24 hours thing a few days ago - if he doesnt get his targets, he knows that players like De Jong, Blind and Vlaar can be brought in with minimal fuss on sunday or monday if needed.

Well I imagine most clubs will want a lot of money to part with key players. I imagine if you contacted a club about buying a top player with a day to go in the market they would be hesitant as they couldn't bring in a replacement.

Also because of this reason I'd say they would use it as an excuse to get more money than the player is worth as compensation.

I would think the club know what players they need and would want to make contact as soon as possible this week. I think no matter who you are trying to sign, so close to the market closing it will be a tough thing to do.