Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

jaykay74

Soldie wrote: »

Took me a while edit the footage but here you go:

sitting down ffs, no wonder we lost.

bangkok

glad to see the back of cleverly, no where near good enough for man utd, offers nothing for what man utd need but will have a good career at villa or hull. Would like to see him go to Valencia though game might suit him better

homerjay2005

homerjay2005 wrote: »

if my performances were poor for many years, id expect my p45. our entire short-medium term planning in terms of squad rebuilding should not be decided on a few meaningless pre season games in the US.

that approach has backfired and leaves us playing players who are not good enough or have been told they can leave, while we struggle with 3 days left in the transfer window to replace them.

It all boils down to the deadweight's getting a free pass for years. High earners with mediocre ability.

When things actually got tough last season there mediocrity got flagged.

Now finally after years there's is someone actually doing something about it.

Quality comes in, **** players go out.

The task for Moyes was huge & he tried his best but some of the players were having none of it. Even RVP was sulking.

The same problems Moyes had, LVG is dealing with now.

However he is not taking the **** Moyes took from the divas, pull up your socks or **** off.

Coat22

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Football agent Barry Silkman on SSN makes out there will be a maximum of 3 big deals before the the deadline and he expects Utd to be involved in 2 of them,

Could be full of sh1t.

I so hope he's not
:cool:

Your Airbag

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Are Pro F and your Airbag gonna have one last 10 page debate about cleverly posting gifs showing him being 1 foot out of position?

For old times sake and all that, maybe we should

greendom

MagicIRL wrote: »

That is definitely a porn star, not a football agent.

http://www.jewishtelegraph.com/prof_37.html

Your Airbag

MagicIRL wrote: »

That is definitely a porn star, not a football agent.

Barry Silkman, good between the sheets

Nuts102

Nuts102 wrote: »

Of all the criticism of Cleverley this is the best your singling out his performance in a game he didn't play bravo.

Oops I meant the Sunderland match

I did watch both btw

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What. The. Fuk.

He neither started the game nor game on as a sub.

May as well put a red circle around Di Maria and say his performance in that match shows he isn't good enough for United!

As stated my bad, I meant the Sunderland match

The_Kew_Tour

If LVG don't think he is good enough then I accept that.

Personally, would have liked to have seen him get another chance, but might be for best now.

Free wage bill too.

deeks

Delboy5 wrote: »

70k

According to this

http://www.tsmplug.com/richlist/manchester-united-players-salaries-list/

Ashley Young earns 118,000pw!!! Lets all stand back and leave that sink in for a moment.

Coat22

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It all boils down to the deadweight's getting a free pass for years. High earners with mediocre ability.

When things actually got tough last season there mediocrity got flagged.

Now finally after years there's is someone actually doing something about it.

Quality comes in, **** players go out.

The task for Moyes was huge & he tried his best but some of the players were having none of it. Even RVP was sulking.

The same problems Moyes had, LVG is dealing with now.

However he is not taking the **** Moyes took from the divas, pull up your socks or **** off.

Spot on.

If LVG wins nothing then at least his leagacy will have been to deal with the sh1t and move it on.

Cleverly / Wellbeck / Nani etc are not bad players - but they simply are not a Man Utd standard of player. Cleverly managed to hold down a place due to the inability of Ferguson to sign a decent midfielder (think about it - apart from Keane and maybe Ince did Ferguson ever sign another decent midfielder? He bought Veron but didn't know what to do with him). Wellbeck has had his uses but won't ever be a first choice player.

United have needed to be rid of these average players for years so thankfully now we have a manager who has the balls to do it,

Coat22

deeks wrote: »

Ashley Young earns 118,000pw!!! Lets all stand back and leave that sink in for a moment.

Was just telling this to the lads down the pub last night - nobody believed me.

homerjay2005

Soldie wrote: »

Took me a while edit the footage but here you go:

the game was an away one......;)

beno619

homerjay2005 wrote: »

if my performances were poor for many years, id expect my p45. our entire short-medium term planning in terms of squad rebuilding should not be decided on a few meaningless pre season games in the US.

that approach has backfired and leaves us playing players who are not good enough or have been told they can leave, while we struggle with 3 days left in the transfer window to replace them.

Yep and there could be numerous reasons for this poor performance.

It's better than making decisions based on the word of others.
I'd assume lvg knew everything he needed to a out the likes of Rio but not much about Cleverley, Jones & Smalling ect.

Coat22

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If LVG don't think he is good enough then I accept that.

Personally, would have liked to have seen him get another chance, but might be for best now.

Free wage bill too.

This is whats wrong with United - he was given loads of chances - he (and about 6 others) are not up to United standards, have had at least 4 seasons to prove themselves and need to move on.

Bite the bullet, reorganise the team and move on. Same as any business.

RayCun

Coat22 wrote: »

apart from Keane and maybe Ince did Ferguson ever sign another decent midfielder?

Hargreaves
and Carrick

RayCun

RayCun wrote: »

Hargreaves
and Carrick

Hargreaves - if only he could actually stay fit

beno619

Coat22 wrote: »

Was just telling this to the lads down the pub last night - nobody believed me.

That's because it's incorrect, he's on 90,000.

Players who move for €20m will command a decent wage, old news.

RayCun

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Hargreaves - if only he could actually stay fit

He was so great. When he was fit.

homerjay2005

beno619 wrote: »

Yep and there could be numerous reasons for this poor performance.

It's better than making decisions based on the word of others.
I'd assume lvg knew everything he needed to a out the likes of Rio but not much about Cleverley, Jones & Smalling ect.

ah come off it, ask any clued in supporter and theyd have told you what was needed last May.

and low and behold, here we are now in the last 2 weeks of the window, buying defenders, a winger and still scrambling for a midfielder

surely to f*ck Ryan Giggs, the glazers, bobby charlton and any other senior person in the club didnt need to be told this?

i do think part of the problem is Ryan Giggs and his loyalty to some of the players.

Coat22

RayCun wrote: »

Hargreaves
and Carrick

Hargreaves didn't play enough for United to make a call on him. Pity because he could have been great.

homerjay2005

beno619 wrote: »

That's because it's incorrect, he's on 90,000.

Players who move for €20m will command a decent wage, old news.

Ashley Young must have the best agent in England or somebody was drunk at Old trafford that week.

Coat22

beno619 wrote: »

That's because it's incorrect, he's on 90,000.

Players who move for €20m will command a decent wage, old news.

Not according to this:

http://www.tsmplug.com/richlist/manchester-united-players-salaries-list/

but according to this its 90k

http://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/18qzmv/manchester_united_player_wages/

either way its astronomical for a player of his limited abilities

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ah come off it, ask any clued in supporter and theyd have told you what was needed last May.

and low and behold, here we are now in the last 2 weeks of the window, buying defenders, a winger and still scrambling for a midfielder

surely to f*ck Ryan Giggs, the glazers, bobby charlton and any other senior person in the club didnt need to be told this?

i do think part of the problem is Ryan Giggs and his loyalty to some of the players.

I don't think GIggs is the problem.

First off, Giggs as Assistant manager is a title to somewhat maintain a rep - There are kinda two assistant managers, the other dutch fella is very close to LVG. Giggs' role is opposition analysis - like Kluivert in the Dutch set up.

Secondly, I would imagine LVG is a man that can make his own mind up and no amount of 'but he is my mate' will keep a player at the club, imo.

Thirdly, I think LVG did take time to assess some of the squad (which I did believe was an overblown line til recently) - and he has changed his mind more than once on a few of the players based on good training, good pre-season and awful competitive season performances - or a dip from good first impressions in training towards terrible competitive performances.

I do think Giggs opinion would be sought, but I don't think his opinion would carry more weight than that of LVG, formed from watching the players train and play - so I simply don't think it is likely that Giggs is the reason for some players still being here.

adox

adox wrote: »

Yeah its me or Larry. Me if he signs and Larry if he doesnt. Not a ban as such but voluntary, although Gav has kindly volunteered to remove our access to the soccer forum for a month.:D

I`d still gladly take the hit of course.

I badly, severely, desperately want Arturo Vidal to play for United this coming season, but if we don't sign him then Larry will be off the thread for a month??

Hmm, some choices are too fúcking hard to make!

Kirby

Giggs knows the league. Opposition analysis and knowledge he has would be fairly valuable. How much would LvG know about the players who play for Hull or West Ham?

I'm not saying he would make a good number two, or even deserves it, but I'm sure LvG appreciates his input considering he's new to the league.

Fishyfreak

I'm all for getting rid of deadwood but our squad is ridiculously thin at the moment. Really need to get replacements in this week if the Kagawa/Cleverley transfers go through.

Worrying times!

Pro. F

Coat22 wrote: »

Not according to this:

http://www.tsmplug.com/richlist/manchester-united-players-salaries-list/

but according to this its 90k

http://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/18qzmv/manchester_united_player_wages/

either way its astronomical for a player of his limited abilities

Why would you believe either of those sources?

Backstreet Moyes

If Ferdinand was telling the truth about Giggs telling him he would stay on first choice this season if he took over it frightens me he could become manager some day.

adox

https://twitter.com/BundesligaSpot/status/505293561785753602

magnumbud

Fishyfreak wrote: »

I'm all for getting rid of deadwood but our squad is ridiculously thin at the moment. Really need to get replacements in this week if the Kagawa/Cleverley transfers go through.

Worrying times!

if we sign blind and say carvalho i'd say the squad is about the right size for the amount of games we will have left this season 37-42 games. perhaps if we let both hernandez and welbeck go we need a striker too but with that we would have a decent size squad of 18-19 players with some of the youngsters bolstering it when needed

adox wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BundesligaSpot/status/505293561785753602

lol he looks like ed o'neill from married with childern/ modern family

Adamcp898

I always found people lamenting over what could've been with Hargreaves odd.

He was injury prone long before he ever came to us so I don't see why people seemed so surprised when the ticking time bomb went off. It was a gamble of a transfer from day 1 and one that I criticised at the time. He did have that one brilliant season though which basically made it worth it.

redbaron_99

Gone very quite on the incoming rumours. Was expecting the rumour mill to have gone into overdrive today

beno619

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ah come off it, ask any clued in supporter and theyd have told you what was needed last May.

and low and behold, here we are now in the last 2 weeks of the window, buying defenders, a winger and still scrambling for a midfielder

surely to f*ck Ryan Giggs, the glazers, bobby charlton and any other senior person in the club didnt need to be told this?

i do think part of the problem is Ryan Giggs and his loyalty to some of the players.

Yep every clued in supporter knew what these players are like on the training ground.

I'm sure Bayern fans would have turfed out Schweinsteiger when he was still just an average winger, but I'm sure there glad LVG decided to have a look at him.

Now we're back onto blaming Giggs for anything that can't be explained.

I don't think there was any problem with assessing the squad, the issue is how long it's taken is to add players since returning from the US. It was pointed out we made enquiries about alonso weeks ago.

Spazdarn

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Gone very quite on the incoming rumours. Was expecting the rumour mill to have gone into overdrive today

It'll be all hands on deck Monday I'd say

Backstreet Moyes

I remember when Cleverley first came onto the scene he scored a heap of goals underage and had a serious strike on the ball. He scored a few at Wigan also and i was telling lads he was the next Scholes. They laughed week after week where Cleverley was on average 12/1 for first goal every game and i was putting tenner after tenner on Betfair where people were offering on average 30/1. It was like throwing darts and saying this is the last go but you keep going back trying to hit the 180 that never comes.

I had such high hopes for him but he done himself no favors over the years. Before he even done anything he started marketing himself out hyping himself out and making himself an easy target for when things went tits up. I hope he does well i think he could do well at Villa and i hope he was a good career.

Backstreet Moyes

I think LVG will turn things around but things will be slow and fans could get impatient.

If we were in Europe and he said right i am tearing it all apart and rebuilding fair enough i could live with finishing 5th this season and be strong next season. But the reality is we can't afford another year outside the top 4. I expect a really slow start and a very strong finish after the second half of the season but we could be too far back at that stage.

Giggsy11

This window we have sold/Released/loaned these players who played for first team in the past.

Rio
Vidic
Evra
Buttner
Bebe
Macheda (can exclude him)
Nani
Zaha

Cleverely
Kagawa
Hernandez (all 3 looks more likely to go)

Have we ever sold/released so many players in the same window? Woodward said usually we do 3 out and 3 in but this time there will be lot of ins and out. Looks like we are on course to make that statement true.

Your Airbag

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Gone very quite on the incoming rumours. Was expecting the rumour mill to have gone into overdrive today

Hopefully beacsue agents, players and chief execs are too busy negotiating deals then talking to the press.

Irishcrx

Coat22 wrote: »

Spot on.

If LVG wins nothing then at least his leagacy will have been to deal with the sh1t and move it on.

Cleverly / Wellbeck / Nani etc are not bad players - but they simply are not a Man Utd standard of player. Cleverly managed to hold down a place due to the inability of Ferguson to sign a decent midfielder (think about it - apart from Keane and maybe Ince did Ferguson ever sign another decent midfielder? He bought Veron but didn't know what to do with him). Wellbeck has had his uses but won't ever be a first choice player.

United have needed to be rid of these average players for years so thankfully now we have a manager who has the balls to do it,

Ronaldo was/is a midfielder, unless you mean Central midfielder...

Crimson King

Depressing logging in to see if there is any transfer news and we are talking about the merits of Tom Cleverley. I think that's the definition of a 'slow news day'. Not taking a pop at anyone, just saying it shows we have feck all else to talk about.

When I think about the changes that LVG has already made this Summer (actually month and a bit) I know the man has no fear and I for one am very excited at the direction he wants to take my club. All the calls for culls we made over the years is actually about to happen. And considering the careers he has moulded I would not be surprised if more and more players like Blackett and Wilson are promoted too, at least those who 'get' his philosophy. He also has bucket loads of finances backing him up for the type of players he wants. It won't happen overnight but long term I believe he is building a great foundation for the team.

magnumbud

Giggsy11 wrote: »

This window we have sold/Released/loaned these players who played for first team in the past.

Rio
Vidic
Evra
Buttner
Bebe
Macheda (can exclude him)
Nani
Zaha

Cleverely
Kagawa
Hernandez (all 3 looks more likely to go)

Have we ever sold/released so many players in the same window? Woodward said usually we do 3 out and 3 in but this time there will be lot of ins and out. Looks like we are on course to make that statement true.

say combined played less than 20 games last year for the club so probably dont count. its a big clear out but it needs to happen. say there are 2 -3 others(welbeck, young and anderson) that could move too.

look at pool a couple of summers ago. cleared out the deadwood and players who were past it and started building. think we have a core there still that is strong enough to challenge for top 4 and stronger than what they had left and with the right additions in the next few days should cement that. add 1 or 2 in january and do the same next summer and we should be back to where we belong

ericzeking

Populist opinion has gone so far against Cleverly that it would be best for him to go. I find it hard to foresee a situation, given his role in the team, where he could turn it around. Although I do remember there once was a hate campaign against Fletcher, someone tried to sell him on Ebay once upon a time...he turned it around before he got sick.

Cleverly is not nearly as bad as he is made out to be on forums, the only way I think he should be sold is if we have a replacement lined up.

He'll do very well wherever he goes.

Spazdarn

If we got Vidal and/or Carvalho I'd consider this one of the best windows I can remember, along with the cutting of the dross.

We may have struggled on the pitch, but LVG is getting the crap that Fergie was too lazy/blind to give their marching orders.

I'd still expect more investment in January, especially looking for defenders, but it would be a bit presumptuous to think all our problems can be solved in one window. Sometimes the right players just aren't available

Mikeyt086

adox wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BundesligaSpot/status/505293561785753602

That's not Kagawa's agent, it's Ed O'Neill, the grandad from Modern Family.

NeVeR

I wonder what Ferguson is making of all this..

RobertKK

Van Gaal is tearing the team up because he doesn't believe it will deliver, it didn't for Moyes.

It is a real positive what LVG is doing, it will take a little time for things to settle down but with no CL and no capital one cup he will have a lot of time at the training ground to instill into the players what he wants them to do.

It should have been a gradual process but the inaction of Fergie and I would say a lesser extent Moyes (not enough time to see what he would have done in the main transfer window this summer), it has left LVG with all the heavy lifting and he seems to have no problem doing it.

I would expect he was shocked at the mess the club is in, he needs to bring the success to the pitch that Woodward has to the finances, and he is lucky the club is well run in that area.

Mars Bar

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

That's not Kagawa's agent, it's Ed O'Neill, the grandad from Modern Family.

And for our older audience, he's also Al from Married With Children.

Kess73

Mars Bar wrote: »

And for our older audience, he's also Al from Married With Children.

He will always be Al Bundy