Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Bandana boy

Does the trouble a recognised top tier manager is having with this squad rescue Moyes reputation a little ?

Larry Wildman

Adox and I are adults...our bet relates to a self imposed exile for a month. We did not agree to a "ban" so there's no need for moderator intervention. If Vidal doesn't sign, I won't post until October 2nd. I'd expect the same from Adox if it's the other way around. In any event, I'd still be following the thread as a source of information and gossip.

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

Van Gaal is tearing the team up because he doesn't believe it will deliver, it didn't for Moyes.

It is a real positive what LVG is doing, it will take a little time for things to settle down but with no CL and no capital one cup he will have a lot of time at the training ground to instill into the players what he wants them to do.

It should have been a gradual process but the inaction of Fergie and I would say a lesser extent Moyes (not enough time to see what he would have done in the main transfer window this summer), it has left LVG with all the heavy lifting and he seems to have no problem doing it.

I would expect he was shocked at the mess the club is in, he needs to bring the success to the pitch that Woodward has to the finances, and he is lucky the club is well run in that area.

Agree with this post. Moyes tried to use the same squad more-or-less and 1) the players weren't good enough and 2) he wasn't a good enough manager and it failed miserably. Four first team players have been brought in in this window, with LvG all but explicitly stating that business isn't done yet. This is not a job that can be done with a click of your fingers. The results have been very poor so far but he took over a complete mess of a club, albeit one with a lot of money.

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Adox and I are adults...our bet relates to a self imposed exile for a month. We did not agree to a "ban" so there's no need for moderator intervention. If Vidal doesn't sign, I won't post until October 2nd. I'd expect the same from Adox if it's the other way around.

You've stated many times you think the deal was as good as done, do you still think he's going to sign? Not trying to have a go, just interested.

adox

Bandana boy wrote: »

Does the trouble a recognised top tier manager is having with this squad rescue Moyes reputation a little ?

Not imo.

secman

Bandana boy wrote: »

Does the trouble a recognised top tier manager is having with this squad rescue Moyes reputation a little ?

Still came across as a rabbitt in headlights though............ was out of his depth... would do a decent job for Birmingham .. Wigan.... Leeds .. that ilk of club

Larry Wildman

Sarai Brief Thriller wrote: »

Agree with this post. Moyes tried to use the same squad more-or-less and 1) the players weren't good enough and 2) he wasn't a good enough manager and it failed miserably. Four first team players have been brought in in this window, with LvG all but explicitly stating that business isn't done yet. This is not a job that can be done with a click of your fingers. The results have been very poor so far but he took over a complete mess of a club, albeit one with a lot of money.





You've stated many times you think the deal was as good as done, do you still think he's going to sign? Not trying to have a go, just interested.

I genuinely think that there's a good chance that he'll sign. United want him and he'd come, it's just the knee I reckon. I'd say it's in the balance. My view is that the Carvalho stuff could be designed to influence Juve. Forget my exile, Vidal is so much the player we need. I'd go from despondence to "let's win the title".

jaykay74

Bandana boy wrote: »

Does the trouble a recognised top tier manager is having with this squad rescue Moyes reputation a little ?

No, it shows up the inaction of last Summer and January.

Adamocovic

I hope we rubbish the idea of Welbeck going to Spurs. To loan out a decent striker, and great back up, to a team that will be competing with us for position seems silly to me.

Surely Spurs will be one of our biggest rivals this year. Why loan out a player that could help them finish ahead of us. Seems ridiculous to me. If we were to loan Welbeck out (I hope we don't) surely it would be wiser to loan him to another league.

Still I don't understand why we would want to loan him out.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Mars Bar wrote: »

And for our older audience, he's also Al from Married With Children.

Who loves women with size 4 feet ha ha

newballsplease

Is Rojo or DiMaria available this weekend?

Headshot

The hand down the pants

He started a revolution with that

Crimson King

newballsplease wrote: »

Is Rojo or DiMaria available this weekend?

I believe Di maria is, but Rojo is not as of yet

newballsplease

newballsplease wrote: »

Is Rojo or DiMaria available this weekend?

No reason Di Maria shouldn't be available. Rojo still sorting his work permit apparently.

adox

jaykay74 wrote: »

No, it shows up the inaction of last Summer and January.

And his ability to motivate the squad(yes players have to take some responsibility) and get them playing at near their potential.

A lot has changed since last summer too. Many senior players have left and the hangover and damage from last season still looms large.

Maximus Alexander

Bandana boy wrote: »

Does the trouble a recognised top tier manager is having with this squad rescue Moyes reputation a little ?

I think Moyes was treated much more harshly than he deserved, but there's a massive difference between the two. LvG has come in and looked to change everything, which I would argue was exactly what was needed following Ferguson's retirement. Moyes, on the other hand, just tried to continue on from Ferguson as if nothing had changed, and it was catastrophic.

I'd be very surprised if United performed as badly as last year over the course of the season, and would fully expect a noticeable increase in the quality of performances over the months. I'd expect the first two matches of the season and the first two matches after Christmas to look totally different, whereas there was never any evidence of progress under Moyes, if anything the team appeared to be going backwards.

Ultimately, we'll have to wait until the end of the season before we can really say.

paulbok

Bandana boy wrote: »

Does the trouble a recognised top tier manager is having with this squad rescue Moyes reputation a little ?

Makes it worse in my eyes. Moyes hadn't the balls/ability/cop on to do anything about it.

Adamocovic

newballsplease wrote: »

Is Rojo or DiMaria available this weekend?

Di Maria is, no word about Rojo work permit so I doubt he is, even if he was to get it in time I doubt he would play though, he's over in Spain I believe trying to sort out his permit.

Kerrydude1981

newballsplease wrote: »

Is Rojo or DiMaria available this weekend?

Apparently Rojo hasnt his work permit sorted yet,so he is out.

Coat22

Mars Bar wrote: »

And for our older audience, he's also Al from Married With Children.

Ah - now I get it

Copper_pipe

More on Javier Hernandez's future as Corrierre dello Sport claims the Manchester United striker has agreed personal terms with Juventus. United are reported to be using the deal as a bargaining tool to sign Arturo Vidal, and the same paper claims Juve are working on deals for Paris St Germain's Adrien Rabiot or Atalanta's Daniele Baselli to replace the Chilean midfielder

Backstreet Moyes

secman wrote: »

Still came across as a rabbitt in headlights though............ was out of his depth... would do a decent job for Birmingham .. Wigan.... Leeds .. that ilk of club

What a load of rubbish.

Leroy42

TBF to Moyes, faced with taking over from SAF I doubt anybody would have rushed in and attempted to rip it all down and start again . LVG has the position that everyone knows that it needs to be done, he also has a greater gravitas than Moyes so combined it allows him alot more freedom than Moyes would have had.

And lets not forget that Moyes did go after some big name signings last year, but for whatever reason, we ended up with only Fellani. My bet is that he was let down by the club in terms of transfers.

Unless things are trully terrible in a new job, which as we had just won the league was not immediately apparent, most people would opt to keep things running with a view to changing things over time.

Moyes took that view but in the end he just wasn;t the man for the job. It is wrong, in my opinion, to blame him for not acting quick enough

newballsplease

Adamocovic wrote: »

Di Maria is, no word about Rojo work permit so I doubt he is, even if he was to get it in time I doubt he would play though, he's over in Spain I believe trying to sort out his permit.

Its hard to believe they havent got that sorted by now.
Complications?
Dont know the ins and outs of it but why couldnt it be done from Britain? Anyone?

Spazdarn

Nuts102 wrote: »

What a load of rubbish.

He's definitely not a top 4 manager, that much is certain. Dunno would I drop him that low down the totem pole though

The Moldy Gowl

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Adox and I are adults...our bet relates to a self imposed exile for a month. We did not agree to a "ban" so there's no need for moderator intervention. If Vidal doesn't sign, I won't post until October 2nd. I'd expect the same from Adox if it's the other way around. In any event, I'd still be following the thread as a source of information and gossip.

I for one will miss you

Backstreet Moyes

ToiletFusion wrote: »

He's definitely not a top 4 manager, that much is certain. Dunno would I drop him that low down the totem pole though

The poster said he would do a decent job at Championship club which is a load of bollocks. For 10 years had Everton pushing for Europe on a shoestring budget while most of the sides behind him each season had bigger budgets. He does drop below the ability of a top 4 manager but he is definitely a very good manager who was out of his depth at United.

Kylo Ren

Mars Bar wrote: »

And for our older audience, he's also Al from Married With Children.

Damn. Fucking. Straight. Go way this 'Modern Family' nonsense.

He's also Coach O'Shea in the Little Giants.

Larry Wildman

Paper talk today around Juan Mata being marginalised to make way for Angel Di Maria.

Tony Gale describes Mata as "a poor man's David Silva".

redbaron_99

tedious

MagicIRL

Keno wrote: »

Damn. Fucking. Straight. Go way this 'Modern Family' nonsense.

He's also Coach O'Shea in the Little Giants.

He's also a BJJ blackbelt!

2moreMinutes

Bandana boy wrote: »

Does the trouble a recognised top tier manager is having with this squad rescue Moyes reputation a little ?

It does in my eyes even though my opinion of Moyes isn't as harsh as others. Bygones are bygones though.....

beno619

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Paper talk today around Juan Mata being marginalised to make way for Angel Di Maria.

Tony Gale describes Mata as "a poor man's David Silva".

Rubbish.

Adamocovic

newballsplease wrote: »

Its hard to believe they havent got that sorted by now.
Complications?
Dont know the ins and outs of it but why couldnt it be done from Britain? Anyone?

Yeah I think it has something to do with the third party ownership. I believe the Premiership doesn't allow it so you have to buy out the party who own a percentage and so far there has been some difference of opinions I think on how much money they receive. Apparently they are working with the FA to try get the registration complete.

Van Gaal also said because Rojo only has an Argentine passport he has to go to Madrid to work with the Embassy there to get his work permit. Odd one alright, don't know why exactly he has to go to Madrid for it. Surely England has an Argentine Embassy.

Maybe someone else here knows exactly why he is in Madrid doing it.

The Moldy Gowl

Adamocovic wrote: »

Yeah I think it has something to do with the third party ownership. I believe the Premiership doesn't allow it so you have to buy out the party who own a percentage and so far there has been some difference of opinions I think on how much money they receive. Apparently they are working with the FA to try get the registration complete.

Van Gaal also said because Rojo only has an Argentine passport he has to go to Madrid to work with the Embassy there to get his work permit. Odd one alright, don't know why exactly he has to go to Madrid for it. Surely England has an Argentine Embassy.

Maybe someone else here knows exactly why he is in Madrid doing it.

Falklands war, no embassy in Britain.

Backstreet Moyes

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Paper talk today around Juan Mata being marginalised to make way for Angel Di Maria.

Tony Gale describes Mata as "a poor man's David Silva".

How exactly do journalists have any idea what way Di Maria is going to be used so i don't see why your posting it.

Also my opinion is as good as Tony Gale's and i think Silva is a poor man's Mata.

Soldie

The Guardian saying the following could be on the way out:

Anderson
Cleverley
Fellaini (unlikely this window as he's injured)
Kagawa
Chicharito
Welbeck
Young

Sounds good to me. This is no time to be sentimental. Thanks for the memories and all that but I'd happily do a few a spins out to the airport to shift this lot (I'd keep Welbeck, mind). If these guys plus Nani are off the books we'd be freeing up £646,000 a week in wages.

beno619

Nuts102 wrote: »

Also my opinion is as good as Tony Gale's and i think Silva is a poor man's Mata.

Huge +1

Almost 0 goal threat and a similar assist record to Mata, Rooney, Nani on form.

Spazdarn

beno619 wrote: »

Huge +1

Almost 0 goal threat and a similar assist record to Mata, Rooney, Nani on form.

Dunno I think Silva's class to be honest.

Wouldn't be putting Nani in the same sentence.

RobertKK

Mayes was chosen by Fergie, that turned out to be a big problem.

He couldn't go in and say, 'I have to tear up this team, it isn't good enough', that team had just won the league.
In that aspect he was out of his depth but I believe it was a depth he was capable of getting out of if he was given time.
I don't think anyone would have faith in LVG if he was only allowed that team.

Moyes was sacked and the board took over and appointed LVG, this gave LVG more freedom = he was not taking over a successful team, anyone could see the team had/has major problems.
We saw how some players went against Moyes - Rio for example and then he who lived by the sword using social media, was dispatched in front of his team mates by Woodward.
I think this was done as a lesson to the others.

Moyes was the wrong manager, but he was not dealt the best hand. He did go after two of our current players who signed and did go after two players who did end up moving - Kroos and Fabregas.
I think there was the chance he could turn it around, but the damage to his reputation was too much for the club and it was seen as a risk to keep him on and let him spend the money.

The players have been the problem for both Moyes and LVG, one was too inactive given certain circumstances and too much respect, the other took over a much clearer cut mess to manage which makes it easier to get the axe out and start the splitting up of the team to make way for a new team.

Short version: Moyes is much better than what he showed last year, but LVG is the right man to sort out the mess that Moyes received.

markcahill1985

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Dunno I think Silva's class to be honest.

Wouldn't be putting Nani in the same sentence.

Silva is so good as he has pace and real ability around him, Jovetic, Nasri, Yaya, Aguero, Dzeko really help Silva out, I would be optimistic that having th likes of Di Maria and Januzaj in the team will really help Mata in this way

Adamocovic

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Falklands war, no embassy in Britain.

Just gave a quick search and it says there is an Argentine Embassy in London. I know the relationship between Britain and Argentina has been a bit rocky between them and got worse after 2010 with Falklands still under British rule despite Argentina claiming it, but why exactly can't he use the embassy in London?

Sorry if this is delving into something, but you would imagine he could use the embassy in London and still have contact with his teammates.

Spazdarn

RobertKK wrote: »

Mayes was chosen by Fergie, that turned out to be a big problem.

He couldn't go in and say, 'I have to tear up this team, it isn't good enough', that team had just won the league.
In that aspect he was out of his depth but I believe it was a depth he was capable of getting out of if he was given time.
I don't think anyone would have faith in LVG if he was only allowed that team.

Moyes was sacked and the board took over and appointed LVG, this gave LVG more freedom = he was not taking over a successful team, anyone could see the team had/has major problems.
We saw how some players went against Moyes - Rio for example and then he who lived by the sword using social media, was dispatched in front of his team mates by Woodward.
I think this was done as a lesson to the others.

Moyes was the wrong manager, but he was not dealt the best hand. He did go after two of our current players who signed and did go after two players who did end up moving - Kroos and Fabregas.
I think there was the chance he could turn it around, but the damage to his reputation was too much for the club and it was seen as a risk to keep him on and let him spend the money.

The players have been the problem for both Moyes and LVG, one was too inactive given certain circumstances and too much respect, the other took over a much clearer cut mess to manage which makes it easier to get the axe out and start the splitting up of the team to make way for a new team.

Short version: Moyes is much better than what he showed last year, but LVG is the right man to sort out the mess that Moyes received.

It was reported Vidic choose to leave as he hated working under Moyes, Vidic was our only good defender, so this is also a black mark on Moyes if true.

redbaron_99

RobertKK wrote: »

Mayes was chosen by Fergie, that turned out to be a big problem.

He couldn't go in and say, 'I have to tear up this team, it isn't good enough', that team had just won the league.
In that aspect he was out of his depth but I believe it was a depth he was capable of getting out of if he was given time.
I don't think anyone would have faith in LVG if he was only allowed that team.

Moyes was sacked and the board took over and appointed LVG, this gave LVG more freedom = he was not taking over a successful team, anyone could see the team had/has major problems.
We saw how some players went against Moyes - Rio for example and then he who lived by the sword using social media, was dispatched in front of his team mates by Woodward.
I think this was done as a lesson to the others.

Moyes was the wrong manager, but he was not dealt the best hand. He did go after two of our current players who signed and did go after two players who did end up moving - Kroos and Fabregas.
I think there was the chance he could turn it around, but the damage to his reputation was too much for the club and it was seen as a risk to keep him on and let him spend the money.

The players have been the problem for both Moyes and LVG, one was too inactive given certain circumstances and too much respect, the other took over a much clearer cut mess to manage which makes it easier to get the axe out and start the splitting up of the team to make way for a new team.

Short version: Moyes is much better than what he showed last year, but LVG is the right man to sort out the mess that Moyes received.

Brilliant post. Sums it all up perfectly.

RobertKK

Nuts102 wrote: »

How exactly do journalists have any idea what way Di Maria is going to be used so i don't see why your posting it.

Also my opinion is as good as Tony Gale's and i think Silva is a poor man's Mata.

Exactly.

I think it is rubbish when some journalists say Mata is the main person under threat.

He has been our main goal threat over the last number of PL matches going back to last season, and LVG is sensible enough to see the records of Mata going back since he settled in.
He is a reliable goal scorer and any sensible manager would incorporate the best assist player with a person like Mata, you don't marginalise that player.
You use your common sense and incorporate both.

TheDoc

Just into the office, anything new and juicy? Did Tony V buy Cleverly yet to tend to his garden?

advertsfox

TheDoc wrote: »

Just into the office, anything new and juicy? Did Tony V buy Cleverly yet to tend to his garden?

Kagawa to Dortmund looks like a done deal, 4 year contract.
Cleverley looks possible to Valencia, still interest from Villa / Hull.
Hernandez may be used as bait to get Vidal at long last.

Backstreet Moyes

What about this the weekend.

---

DDG

---

---Raf

---

Smalling----Evans----Blackett---

---

jones

---

---

Fletcher

---

Di Maria

---

---

Janjuaz----Rooney

---

Mata

Backstreet Moyes

With it looking like Hernandez and possibly Wellbeck leaving what do people think of Wilson this season. To be honest i am probably more excited about him than Janjuaz.

Larry Wildman

I stand by my view that Mata has been pretty woeful so far. However, he's definitely a victim of the dross around him during that period. We should see how he does with guys like Di Maria, Van Persie, Herrera and dare I day it Vidal around him.

RobertKK

https://twitter.com/Footy_Rumours1/status/505308991665504256/photo/1