Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

aperture_nuig · 19-08-2014 1:38pm

redbaron_99 wrote: »

If Nani goes to Sporting, and the Rojo deal falls through, there will be a meltdown of epic proportions.

TBH, all you would be able to do at that point is laugh.

homerjay2005 · 19-08-2014 1:38pm

RayCun wrote: »

He also produced figures for the last 5 years, where both City and Chelsea have spent more than 200 million more than United on players

and you (and a few others) are completely under estimating the impact of Net spending has on transfer budgets.

City were able to spend more, because the players they are buying are better, thus have a better resell value - they dont hang on to players who dont make the cut, they get rid of them.

Chelsea got £50m for David Luiz - that is incredible. meanwhile, we are giving massive contracts to over rated players (and players over 32, even 35 years old), meaning their contracts run down as nobody will buy them.

weve been trying to get of Anderson for 2+ years now, yet he has picked up £7million in wages in this time. we cant shift our players out as nobody wants them and nobody can afford their wages.

true we sold off Tosic, Foster, Richardson for good money, but for those 3, you have the likes of Bebe, Nani, Anderson, Fellaini will end us seeing a net loss of about £50m for what we paid for them, all in the prime now of their careers.

Justin10 · 19-08-2014 1:39pm

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Ah here....

Anderson, was highly rated at Porto, Best in the world, for his age and potential would be better put.

He never got over his injury, had some really good games for us, highlight was the day at anfield against Gerrard.

kryogen · 19-08-2014 1:45pm

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Ah here....

Check it out for yourself. He won the World Golden Boy, is that not enough evidence of how highly he was rated at the time? Three previous winners to him, Aguero, Fabregas and Rooney. Next ones Pato, Balotelli and Goetze

Don't let what has happened since colour your view of how highly he was rated

JaMarcusHustle · 19-08-2014 1:45pm

Rochey18 wrote: »

Anderson, was highly rated at Porto, Best in the world, for his age and potential would be better put.

He never got over his injury, had some really good games for us, highlight was the day at anfield against Gerrard.

kryogen wrote: »

Check it out for yourself. He won the World Golden Boy, is that not enough evidence of how highly he was rated at the time? Three previous winners to him, Aguero, Fabregas and Rooney. Next ones Pato, Balotelli and Goetze

Don't let what has happened since colour your view of how highly he was rated

To be fair, the age/potential caveat was not mentioned in the OP, hence my initial horror.

Sgt Pepper 64 · 19-08-2014 1:46pm

Rochey18 wrote: »

Anderson, was highly rated at Porto, Best in the world, for his age and potential would be better put.

He never got over his injury, had some really good games for us, highlight was the day at anfield against Gerrard.

I always thought he was played out of his best position by Fergie

FutureGuy · 19-08-2014 1:46pm

Anderson was unbelievalbly rated as an attacking midfielder. Then we attempted to make him a defensive midfielder.

Liam O · 19-08-2014 1:49pm

Nuts102 wrote: »

I would be very surprised if Nani agrees to go back to Portugal.

Van Gaal bringing him on the other day would suggest he sees him as somewhat useful too.

kryogen · 19-08-2014 1:50pm

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

To be fair, the age/potential caveat was not mentioned in the OP, hence my initial horror.

I did say before his awful injury though, I thought that would be obvious to everyone what age he was

homerjay2005 · 19-08-2014 1:50pm

FutureGuy wrote: »

Anderson was unbelievalbly rated as an attacking midfielder. Then we attempted to make him a defensive midfielder.

despite the fact that Ferrguson said he never had a defensive midfielder in 25 years at the club?

Anderson got forward as much as any midfield player, he just wasnt very good at it.

kryogen · 19-08-2014 1:51pm

Liam O wrote: »

Van Gaal bringing him on the other day would suggest he sees him as somewhat useful too.

That or that he had no other options, which he didnt

I would think Nani is certainly seen as expendable sadly

RobbingBandit · 19-08-2014 1:53pm

Or he was using it as a chance to put Nani in the shop window.

markcahill1985 · 19-08-2014 1:53pm

kryogen wrote: »

That or that he had no other options, which he didnt I would think Nani is certainly seen as expendable sadly

Being presented at Sporting after their training today apparantly

Mitch Connor · 19-08-2014 1:53pm

Liam O wrote: »

Van Gaal bringing him on the other day would suggest he sees him as somewhat useful too.

Or: without RVP, Welbeck, Carrick, Shaw, Valencia, Rafael or Evans, he had limted options on the bench - compounded by Lingard going off injured. We had no other attacking option on the bench other than Nani, and no real option for the bench that could/should have been there ahead of him.

kryogen · 19-08-2014 1:54pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

despite the fact that Ferrguson said he never had a defensive midfielder in 25 years at the club?

Anderson got forward as much as any midfield player, he just wasnt very good at it.

Fergie always told the truth eh?

The_Kew_Tour · 19-08-2014 1:55pm

Things are even so bad that even a Hibs supporter feeels sorry for me:pac:

RayCun · 19-08-2014 1:57pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

and you (and a few others) are completely under estimating the impact of Net spending has on transfer budgets.

But
In the last five years City and Chelsea both have net spending significantly higher (70m, 90m) than United
The reason why they made so much back from sales in the last five years is they spent so much on players in the previous five years

In the last 5 years City have sold 129m of players. Their net spend, in the previous five years, was 230m.

redbaron_99 · 19-08-2014 2:02pm

Seeing as though it's his last day at the club, I think we should spark off the ultimate death match Nani debate on whether he's world class or absolute gash. We can fight tooth and nail over it and half of us will get banned. A blaze of glory, lads! A blaze of glory.

sReq | uTeK · 19-08-2014 2:03pm

Question, if you're Adidas and you've just handed over 750 million how do you feel about the lack of big time players coming into the team, surely an influx of stars sell shirts and kits which is where the big chunk of revenue comes from.

I'd be pretty pissed that's for sure.

magnumbud · 19-08-2014 2:04pm

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Seeing as though it's his last day at the club, I think we should spark off the ultimate death match Nani debate on whether he's world class or absolute gash. We can fight tooth and nail over it and half of us will get banned. A blaze of glory, lads! A blaze of glory.

hes only going on loan not being sold

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Question, if you're Adidas and you've just handed over 750 million how do you feel about the lack of big time players coming into the team, surely an influx of stars sell shirts and kits which is where the big chunk of revenue comes from.

I'd be pretty pissed that's for sure.

we have 4 of the top 10 shirt selling names in the Premier league from last season. i'm sure they wont be too concerned yet.

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2014-15/aug/van-persie-remains-top-selling-shirt-in-barclays-premier-league.html

Leroy42 · 19-08-2014 2:07pm

RayCun wrote: »

But
In the last five years City and Chelsea both have net spending significantly higher (70m, 90m) than United
The reason why they made so much back from sales in the last five years is they spent so much on players in the previous five years

In the last 5 years City have sold 129m of players. Their net spend, in the previous five years, was 230m.

Net spend is a pointless stat.

Gross spend is the only lke for like measurement as to get to Net means that the player has to then be sold or released (like Vidic) and does not take account the usage made of the player.

Gross fees show the amount of money spend on players and is not warped by massive losses or profits (Spurs for Bale etc.) From a business point of view it makes sense but not from gauging the amount of transfers to a team.

Spurs had very littel net spend last year but is it right to basically value all the incoming players at zero since the cost was covered by Bale?

sReq | uTeK · 19-08-2014 2:08pm

magnumbud wrote: »

hes only going on loan not being sold

we have 4 of the top 10 shirt selling names in the Premier league from last season. i'm sure they wont be too concerned yet.

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2014-15/aug/van-persie-remains-top-selling-shirt-in-barclays-premier-league.html

Surely that has to do with our fanbase within the UK already, I'm on about a global scale.

Liam O · 19-08-2014 2:09pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Or: without RVP, Welbeck, Carrick, Shaw, Valencia, Rafael or Evans, he had limted options on the bench - compounded by Lingard going off injured. We had no other attacking option on the bench other than Nani, and no real option for the bench that could/should have been there ahead of him.

Not sure what Shaw and Evans have to do with Nani. Kagawa was on the bench too and I don't think Zaha is injured is he?

homerjay2005 · 19-08-2014 2:09pm

kryogen wrote: »

Fergie always told the truth eh?

id put more weight behind what he says, as opposed to you....but thanks anyway.

DM_7 · 19-08-2014 2:10pm

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Question, if you're Adidas and you've just handed over 750 million how do you feel about the lack of big time players coming into the team, surely an influx of stars sell shirts and kits which is where the big chunk of revenue comes from.

I'd be pretty pissed that's for sure.

They are not the current kit suppliers so they would probably prefer big names to arrive next summer..........

Current sponsors like Chevrolet would be concerned if results are poor this season.

homerjay2005 · 19-08-2014 2:10pm

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Question, if you're Adidas and you've just handed over 750 million how do you feel about the lack of big time players coming into the team, surely an influx of stars sell shirts and kits which is where the big chunk of revenue comes from.

I'd be pretty pissed that's for sure.

Addidas deal doesnt start until next year. right now, they are im sure pretty pleased that no big name shirt deals are going to Nike.

magnumbud · 19-08-2014 2:11pm

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Surely that has to do with our fanbase within the UK already, I'm on about a global scale.

kagawas not in there for english fanbase i would guess. sure if you sign an argentine superstar that would boost sales there but globally united is the most bought kit along with real and has been for years and we havent really bought too many massive stars in that time the current players will continue to sell. i'd be more worried if we didnt have world star names in a few season when rvp and rooney are getting on

Chagan · 19-08-2014 2:11pm

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Question, if you're Adidas and you've just handed over 750 million how do you feel about the lack of big time players coming into the team, surely an influx of stars sell shirts and kits which is where the big chunk of revenue comes from.

I'd be pretty pissed that's for sure.

They''ll be happy enough to see no signings until next summer. It' no good for them if Vidal signs a contract in a Nike t-shirt.

Of course there's no guarantee we'll sign anyone next summer either so that's a concern.

2moreMinutes · 19-08-2014 2:12pm

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Question, if you're Adidas and you've just handed over 750 million how do you feel about the lack of big time players coming into the team, surely an influx of stars sell shirts and kits which is where the big chunk of revenue comes from.

I'd be pretty pissed that's for sure.

I'm sure Adidas couldn't care less who is bought this year. I'd guess they'd be delighted at a few superstars being bought next year to coincide with their new shirts.

Mitch Connor · 19-08-2014 2:13pm

Chagan wrote: »

They''ll be happy enough to see no signings until next summer. It' no good for them if Vidal signs a contract in a Nike t-shirt.

Of course there's no guarantee we'll sign anyone next summer either so that's a concern.

Will they? Are they stupid?

We sign no one good enough this summer, we don't make CL this season, we have absolutely no chance of signing anyone good next summer - so the no CL cycle continues, and their big sponsorship deal with us becomes a fecking disaster.

Giggsy11 · 19-08-2014 2:14pm

Rojo liked one more pic on Instagram saying Rojo is red.

He Favorited tweet congratulating him on 20 Million move.

He loves to play with social media.

Mitch Connor · 19-08-2014 2:16pm

Liam O wrote: »

Not sure what Shaw and Evans have to do with Nani. Kagawa was on the bench too and I don't think Zaha is injured is he?

Is Zaha a better option than Nani on the bench? Really?

KAgawa, fair enough, but he is a central player and LVG brought someone on to play wide.

Adamcp898 · 19-08-2014 2:18pm

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Question, if you're Adidas and you've just handed over 750 million how do you feel about the lack of big time players coming into the team, surely an influx of stars sell shirts and kits which is where the big chunk of revenue comes from.

I'd be pretty pissed that's for sure.

They have plenty of performance requirements to be met before they stump up the £75 million each year. All the more reason why we should be spending now in order to exploit the deal fully.

kryogen · 19-08-2014 2:19pm

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Question, if you're Adidas and you've just handed over 750 million how do you feel about the lack of big time players coming into the team, surely an influx of stars sell shirts and kits which is where the big chunk of revenue comes from.

I'd be pretty pissed that's for sure.

You haven't just handed over 750million yet, so that would be ok so far

Also, I would think you would be happy to see how the season goes, thinking with players like Rooney, RVP, Mata, Kagawa etc in the squad that jersey and merch sales will probably stay quite healthy and if the club don't reach the target of CL football you will not even have to spend the 75million a year to have your name on the stuff.

As long as there are a few big name stars they will be quite happy, star studded teams not necessary. The club will need to replenish good players anyway for its own sake

MagicIRL · 19-08-2014 2:19pm

I would rather have Nani in my squad then Zaha any day of the week. As inconsistent as Nani is, at least he has reached a very, very high level of football before. Zaha has done nothing outside of the Championship to warrant praise like that.

case885 · 19-08-2014 2:22pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYiID87Nbwg
Poor ashley will never get a kiss again :pac:

sReq | uTeK · 19-08-2014 2:23pm

2moreMinutes wrote: »

I'm sure Adidas couldn't care less who is bought this year. I'd guess they'd be delighted at a few superstars being bought next year to coincide with their new shirts.

Thanks Guys, I thought it was kicking in this year, my bad, Guess they're delighted at the fiasco that is our transfers thus far.

Chagan · 19-08-2014 2:27pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Will they? Are they stupid?

We sign no one good enough this summer, we don't make CL this season, we have absolutely no chance of signing anyone good next summer - so the no CL cycle continues, and their big sponsorship deal with us becomes a fecking disaster.

If we don't make CL this season, the money they have to pay drops by a good bit, among other performance related clauses I'd bet.

Given our commercial power, I'd also be confident that shirt sales wouldn't drop significantly either. Considering it'll be the first year of Adidas shirts, sales could even be up on this year.

Bringing in quality and it's effect on the shirt deal should be a concern for the club certainly but I'd say Adidas have thought long and hard about how they're going to make their money off of us. You don't agree to pay £750m without having the worst case scenario covered.

shadowcomplex · 19-08-2014 2:27pm

I reckon this is the team Lvg wants

de Gea

Raf

Evans --benaita

shaw

Herrera

strootman

Cuadrado

mata

dimaria

Rvp or Rooney

kryogen · 19-08-2014 2:28pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

id put more weight behind what he says, as opposed to you....but thanks anyway.

Im not asking you to put any weight in what I say, much like I place little stock in what you say the majority of the time so no need to thank me. I would however encourage you to use your eyes when you are at the games in amongst the real hardcore fans in the stretty, not with the other "morons" around the ground and decide for yourself what type of midfielder someone is or what role they have been given in the team. Maybe the view is obscured from there though as you did seem to miss a couple of years of shocking performances from Evra also

The_Kew_Tour · 19-08-2014 2:29pm

shadowcomplex wrote: »

I reckon this is the team Lvg wants
de Gea
Raf
Evans --benaita
shaw
Herrera
strootman
Cuadrado
mata
dimaria
Rvp or Rooney

If I see that team out this season for United I will make love to a sheep.:P

Mitch Connor · 19-08-2014 2:29pm

kryogen wrote: »

You haven't just handed over 750million yet, so that would be ok so far

Also, I would think you would be happy to see how the season goes, thinking with players like Rooney, RVP, Mata, Kagawa etc in the squad that jersey and merch sales will probably stay quite healthy and if the club don't reach the target of CL football you will not even have to spend the 75million a year to have your name on the stuff.

As long as there are a few big name stars they will be quite happy, star studded teams not necessary. The club will need to replenish good players anyway for its own sake

As far as I know, it would only drop after the second season out of the CL under their contract - so that is a few years away, worse case scenario. Also, I think it only drops by 20million - so it would still be a record fee they are paying us, regardless of CL. They will want some bang for their buck.

magnumbud · 19-08-2014 2:30pm

shadowcomplex wrote: »

I reckon this is the team Lvg wants
de Gea
Raf
Evans --benaita
shaw
Herrera
strootman
Cuadrado
mata
dimaria
Rvp or Rooney

id say more this

de Gea

Raf

Evans --benaita

shaw

strootman

----Herrera

dimaria

mata

Rvp----Rooney

RasTa · 19-08-2014 2:30pm

Should the twitter links people are posting be embedded?

kryogen · 19-08-2014 2:35pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

As far as I know, it would only drop after the second season out of the CL under their contract - so that is a few years away, worse case scenario. Also, I think it only drops by 20million - so it would still be a record fee they are paying us, regardless of CL. They will want some bang for their buck.

Could have sworn I read some other drops if targets are not met but cant check right now. They will get bang for their buck unless total disaster happens I would be willing to bet, the shirt and merch sales are incredible each year and that would take a few years to peter down. You would hope the club will not let a slide into mediocrity occur.

If things look bad next summer I will start to worry, but can't say I am concerned right now. I have faith in LvG to succeed. I was willing to give Moyes time even though I am on record as never supporting the appointment, but this is a different feeling, one of faith in a managers ability to do it with a top club. I am relaxed right now.

Alf Veedersane · 19-08-2014 2:39pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

As far as I know, it would only drop after the second season out of the CL under their contract - so that is a few years away, worse case scenario. Also, I think it only drops by 20million - so it would still be a record fee they are paying us, regardless of CL. They will want some bang for their buck.

It drops by 30% if United fail to qualify for the CL for two consecutive seasons but even if United don't qualify this season, they still have the comfort of another season of mediocrity because the Adidias contract doesn't kick in until the start of next season. So once they finish in the top 4 by the end of the 2016/2017 season, they're fine.

The only other reduction is if they are relegated.

They'll get a £4 million bonus if they win the PL, FA Cup or CL.

shadowcomplex · 19-08-2014 2:39pm

magnumbud wrote: »

id say more this
de Gea
Raf
Evans --benaita
shaw
strootman
----Herrera
dimaria
mata
Rvp----Rooney

I think the forward 3 are too narrow and also lack pace , I suppose you could say dimaria could change positions on the break but a traditional 433 works best with one central striker and a pacey winger type striker on either side ala robben or Sanchez

KH25 · 19-08-2014 2:40pm

What I'd give for a signing now. I don't like this silence. I'm not counting Rojo.

Mitch Connor · 19-08-2014 2:42pm

kryogen wrote: »

Could have sworn I read some other drops if targets are not met but cant check right now. They will get bang for their buck unless total disaster happens I would be willing to bet, the shirt and merch sales are incredible each year and that would take a few years to peter down. You would hope the club will not let a slide into mediocrity occur.

If things look bad next summer I will start to worry, but can't say I am concerned right now. I have faith in LvG to succeed. I was willing to give Moyes time even though I am on record as never supporting the appointment, but this is a different feeling, one of faith in a managers ability to do it with a top club. I am relaxed right now.

I think LVG is a top manager, and a great appointment.

I don't think he is a miracle worker though - the squad is dogsh1te, and if it isn't improved we are going to be 6th or so again this season, imo.

He needs to add another centre back (assuming Rojo is a done deal) and a combative central midfielder, at the very least. Without those two signings, we are fooked.

I was told Woodward is trying to do a deal for one CM player at the moment - a player I don't really rate myself, and one LVG apparently doesn't want. So hopefully that is already dead in the water.

twam2008 · 19-08-2014 2:43pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think LVG is a top manager, and a great appointment.

I don't think he is a miracle worker though - the squad is dogsh1te, and if it isn't improved we are going to be 6th or so again this season, imo.

He needs to add another centre back (assuming Rojo is a done deal) and a combative central midfielder, at the very least. Without those two signings, we are fooked.

I was told Woodward is trying to do a deal for one CM player at the moment - a player I don't really rate myself, and one LVG apparently doesn't want. So hopefully that is already dead in the water.

Who's that?

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

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