Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Brendan Flowers

A name I've seen mentioned here twice today is Alonso. What would people think about a double swoop for Di Maria and Xabi Alonso? Alonso might also suggest for gametime at Madrid this season and may be willing to move. I'm not sure how he'd feel about a move to Utd considering his ties to Liverpool, but if he wanted it I could see him being a great addition to the midfield.

Van Gaal, Herrera, Shaw, Rojo, Di Maria and Alonso. If these 6 were our summer signings I'd be very happy.

Oregano_State

ToiletFusion wrote: »

From the tits up our team looks quality, but from midfield back is terrible.

Our whole defence barring Shaw and Rojo (who haven't had to chance to prove one way or another if they're good enough) is only fit for a mid table team in the premiership.

Ashley Young's level again, a mid table team, Michael Carrick divides opinion, but he imo shouldn't be in a team challenging for champions league.

Compare our first team and even our squad against any of the top 4's teams and we come up short.

It's hard to be confident of anything especially when the only trick card we have (a good manager) can be nullified by the fact the other top 4 teams have good managers too.

Your username fits pretty well with what I think of your points.

beno619

homerjay2005 wrote: »

talking about the problems at our club, problems that keep getting worse and worse are legatimate discussion points in our club.

people looking to constantly express bittness towards the media are not.

but see, one of them is popular around here, so it doesnt bother those who thrive on insulting others who relay "negative" things about the club.

But a lot of the problems with the club are based of media reports on who we have or have not bid for. 90% of these stories are bull.

Adamocovic

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

A name I've seen mentioned here twice today is Alonso. What would people think about a double swoop for Di Maria and Xabi Alonso? Alonso might also suggest for gametime at Madrid this season and may be willing to move. I'm not sure how he'd feel about a move to Utd considering his ties to Liverpool, but if he wanted it I could see him being a great addition to the midfield.

Van Gaal, Herrera, Shaw, Rojo, Di Maria and Alonso. If these 6 were our summer signings I'd be very happy.

I can't imagine Alonso ever accepting a move to United. He's a quality player but I could never see him joining us. He's a Liverpool legend, I'm sure his agent and himself wouldn't want to ruin his image by joining one of their (if not) biggest rivals.

homerjay2005

beno619 wrote: »

But a lot of the problems with the club are based of media reports on who we have or have not bid for.

I think its the standard of players, football and sh&t results over the past 12 months thats the main problem, dont you?

MagicIRL

Oregano_State wrote: »

Your username fits pretty well with what I think of your points.

We can only settle this one way boys...

Pro. F

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

What would people think about us signing Lars Bender? I think he's a good tackler, he can pass, only 24, German international.

Ok he's not Vidal but he does a job that we have no one to do.

I think he's a good player so I'd be excited about him coming in. He's skilful, hard-working, disciplined and can tackle. Any time I've seen him though he has been the more attacking CM beside a holding player, so I can't say for sure if his defensive reading of the game is top notch or not. He seems to at least be decent at it. That might not be an issue anyway, depending on how we play this formation.

Brendan Flowers

Adamocovic wrote: »

I can't imagine Alonso ever accepting a move to United. He's a quality player but I could never see him joining us. He's a Liverpool legend, I'm sure his agent and himself wouldn't want to ruin his image by joining one of their (if not) biggest rivals.

We would have probably said the same thing about Cesc signing for Chelsea 1 or 2 years ago. You'd just never know what could happen!

Alf Veedersane

Coat22

How significant is the Barcelona news today? If they can’t sign anyone for 16 months from September 1 will they “stock up” on players in this window?

Mitch Connor

beno619 wrote: »

But a lot of the problems with the club are based of media reports on who we have or have not bid for. 90% of these stories are bull.

No, a lot of the problems at the club are based on the fact we are short in several areas of the squad, 12 days left in the window, having finished a deserved 7th last season.

People go on about the bulk of the squad being a title winning side. Rio, Vidic and Evra were key players in that team; imo only 1 has been adequately replaced. Giggs and Scholes played a good part that season - only Herrera can be said to be replacing them (imo, Fellaini ain't up to it). We have also moved Nani on from that side, while Valencia has regressed (from what was also a poor season) and Young has done nowt. Mata a quality addition though.

IMO, we won that title based on grinding out results, not because we were amazing. That squad has stagnated or left, for the most part. We are, at the very best perspective (imo) on a par with that title winning side, while Liverpool, Chelsea, City and Arsenal have all improved their sides.

The negativity is based on the requirements of the squad and the lack of actual action to rectify those problems.

Lord TSC

homerjay2005 wrote: »

I think its the standard of players, football and sh&t results over the past 12 months thats the main problem, dont you?

Whatever about the standard of players, judging the standard of football and results after one game (if we decide to ignore our stellar pre-season) seems rash....

bangkok

Coat22 wrote: »

How significant is the Barcelona news today? If they can’t sign anyone for 16 months from September 1 will they “stock up” on players in this window?

they have signed 8 already!!!

Tom.D.BJJ

Coat22 wrote: »

How significant is the Barcelona news today? If they can’t sign anyone for 16 months from September 1 will they “stock up” on players in this window?

Stock up, and loan them out. Cancel the loan when they need them this getting around the transfer ban.

Coat22

bangkok wrote: »

they have signed 8 already!!!

Bet they sign a few more in the next 12 days now

bucketybuck

Lord TSC wrote: »

Whatever about the standard of players, judging the standard of football and results after one game (if we decide to ignore our stellar pre-season) seems rash....

Yes, you should ignore the meaningless pre-season.

What I saw on Saturday was the same type of rubbish display that we saw all last season, which was no surprise to me whatsoever considering it was coming from basically the same group of players. I said it weeks ago, people had their heads in the sand expecting it to be any different.

The Moldy Gowl

homerjay2005 wrote: »

talking about the problems at our club, problems that keep getting worse and worse are legatimate discussion points in our club.

people looking to constantly express bittness towards the media are not.

but see, one of them is popular around here, so it doesnt bother those who thrive on insulting others who relay "negative" things about the club.

now, as ive said to the two other people who are as obsessed with my posts as you are in the last month, if youve got a problem with what i say about the club or Woodward, put me on ignore and you wont have the problem anymore.

i dont expect to have to engage with you again and i think the thread will be a much better place for everybody if you do as i ask.

ahhhhh haaaaa HomeyJay, gaurdian of the superthread ahhh haaa

homerjay2005

Lord TSC wrote: »

Whatever about the standard of players, judging the standard of football and results after one game (if we decide to ignore our stellar pre-season) seems rash....

things will improve but thats not saying much.

bangkok

Coat22 wrote: »

Bet they sign a few more in the next 12 days now

they cant really, FFP rules means they will probably need to sell another before they can buy

bangkok

fellaini injured now at training probably puts his loan move or sale in jeopardy now

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

Yes, you should ignore the meaningless pre-season.

What I saw on Saturday was the same type of rubbish display that we saw all last season, which was no surprise to me whatsoever considering it was coming from basically the same group of players. I said it weeks ago, people had their heads in the sand expecting it to be any different.

Expecting Louis van Gaal to be able to get better performances and results than David Moyes did, even with the same group of players, can not be described as having your head in the sand.

Backstreet Moyes

Rafael, Shaw and a competent midfielder beside Herrera would make a massive difference from what was seen Saturday. Lingard and Young offered nothing going forward and Fletcher is just not good enough.

homerjay2005

Pro. F wrote: »

Expecting Louis van Gaal to be able to get better performances and results than David Moyes did, even with the same group of players, can not be described as having your head in the sand.

10 players out, 3 players in is not really the same group of players though is it?

magnumbud

Nuts102 wrote: »

Rafael, Shaw and a competent midfielder beside Herrera would make a massive difference from what was seen Saturday. Lingard and Young offered nothing going forward and Fletcher is just not good enough.

bit harsh on the lad was only on the pitch for about 20 minutes. i agree with the point initial point

Pro. F

homerjay2005 wrote: »

10 players out, 3 players in is not really the same group of players though is it?

True. We have a better group of players this season than last season.

Adamocovic

So I can't really find much sources for this question, but what is the situation with our injuries?

Are the likes of Evans, Rafael, RvP, and Welbeck fit for selection this weekend?

Mitch Connor

Pro. F wrote: »

True. We have a better group of players this season than last season.

Do we?

Is Smalling, Evans, Jones, Rojo a better defensive set at CB than Rio, Vidic, Smalling, Evans, Jones?

Is Shaw a better LB set than Evra and Buttner?

Mitch Connor

Adamocovic wrote: »

So I can't really find much sources for this question, but what is the situation with our injuries?

Are the likes of Evans, Rafael, RvP, and Welbeck fit for selection this weekend?

RVP, maybe - he is training a few weeks now, but would imagine he will be on the bench before starting. Similar with Rafael - he started training again Thrusday gone, he'll be well back in fitness. Might be pressed in to it given lack of options though. No idea on Evans or Welbeck.

IrishIrish

homerjay2005 wrote: »

10 players out, 3 players in is not really the same group of players though is it?

Serious Question here.... Are you seriously including Bebe, Jack Barmby and Macheda in your 10 players out to try and generate some sort of negative drama or who are you including in your 10 players out...

magnumbud

Adamocovic wrote: »

So I can't really find much sources for this question, but what is the situation with our injuries?

Are the likes of Evans, Rafael, RvP, and Welbeck fit for selection this weekend?

not sure about the other lads but would imagine Rafael will start out of near necessity this weekend but would say RvP will be bench at most probably come on if needed perhaps play a full half of the carling cup then

Lucas Hood

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Do we?

Is Smalling, Evans, Jones, Rojo a better defensive set at CB than Rio, Vidic, Smalling, Evans, Jones?

Is Shaw a better LB set than Evra and Buttner?

Why are you not including Blackett Keane & James here?

magnumbud

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Why are you not including Blackett Keane & James here?

makes it more dramatic

Your Airbag

Zico wrote: »

Does this mean you'll stop using the same stuff to prop up your opinions?

I usually look for good sources such as from the horse mouth stuff such Wegner confirming we bid for Vermalen and I usually had the caveat of "if this story is true" on many posts unlike others who like to take ITK stuff as fact to bash the way the club is run.

Recently I was critical of Ogden over some of his guess work this summer and he is regarded as a reliable around here.

But don't let any of that bother you. Just continue to take any badly put together article that has a negative spin towards UTD as fact. You have a cheif exec and the way the club is run to bash after all even though you don't have a clue whats going on.

RGDATA!

RobertKK wrote: »

Muller, Reus and Vermaelen were targets, but Fabregas was not and neither was Kroos, both of whom LVG didn't want.

How do we know for a fact that LVG didn't want Kroos/Fabregas? Just curious as I've seen a few people say it with certainty.

Backstreet Moyes

magnumbud wrote: »

bit harsh on the lad was only on the pitch for about 20 minutes. i agree with the point initial point

Ye i meant Rafael will offer far more at wing back than Lingard.

Zico

Sunday can't come soon enough.

Your Airbag

RGDATA! wrote: »

How do we know for a fact that LVG didn't want Kroos/Fabregas? Just curious as I've seen a few people say it with certainty.

We bid for Fabregas last summer when Barca and Cesc said he wasn't going anywhere. Barca said he is up for sale this summer and we did nothing when everyone expected us to bid. Media reports aside if you can't figure out LVG didn't want him from that I don't know what to tell you.

Moyes watched Kross and "apparently" meet with his agent. I think they were photgraphed together. If reports are to be belived Moyes had done some work on a deal and the same links started early this summer. Then our interest dropped when LVG took over.

This is simple to grasp stuff

Mitch Connor

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Why are you not including Blackett Keane & James here?

Fine, include them. For me the point still stands. I think people are placing way too much faith in Blacket and James - and would say the people who are doing so don't watch the under 21 or U18 sides, in which neither especially impressed. IMO they are in the squad because of the complete lack of options alternate to them.

They will eventually be moved on like many other youth players who play a few games, imo. Keane is the best of the 3, a good backup option, not first choice material by a long way imo though.

Pro. F

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Do we?

Is Smalling, Evans, Jones, Rojo a better defensive set at CB than Rio, Vidic, Smalling, Evans, Jones?

Is Shaw a better LB set than Evra and Buttner?

Since I haven't seen him at CB yet, I can't say how good Rojo is there. For the sake of argument, I'm going to make the assumption that he is an acceptable back-up there.

Vidic is a loss. Rio is not. Smalling, Jones, Evans, Blackett (who has been very impressive) and Rojo, as a set, is only slightly weaker than Smalling, Jones, Evans, Rio and Vidic.

Shaw is infinitely superior to Evra so that is a huge improvement. Buttner as cover is a loss, but James has impressed me so far and Rojo is decent cover there too. So we have significantly improved that position.

Hererra in is a big improvement to our central midfield.

Nani out is a loss, but he was injured a lot last season and Januzaj is a year older now, so it's not a huge loss.

So, two areas of the team have improved - LB and CM - and two have gotten weaker - CB and WM. I would say the amount of change in quality is greater in the areas improving than in the areas weakening.

If Rojo turns out to be a disaster then I suppose you could say the overall quality of the team has weakened.

homerjay2005

IrishIrish wrote: »

Serious Question here.... Are you seriously including Bebe, Jack Barmby and Macheda in your 10 players out to try and generate some sort of negative drama or who are you including in your 10 players out...

1. Rio
2. Vidic
3. Evra
4. Giggs
5. Buttner
6. Fabio
7. Bebe
8. Nani
9. Henriquez
10. Macheda

does that answer you serious question?

Bebe and Macheda will be down on any list you will see (sky sports, transferleague etc etc) but hey, big bad homerjay is not allowed to mention this because he will upset poor little Irishirish on boards.

Pro. F

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Fine, include them. For me the point still stands. I think people are placing way too much faith in Blacket and James - and would say the people who are doing so don't watch the under 21 or U18 sides, in which neither especially impressed. IMO they are in the squad because of the complete lack of options alternate to them.

They will eventually be moved on like many other youth players who play a few games, imo. Keane is the best of the 3, a good backup option, not first choice material by a long way imo though.

None of them need to be first choice material. We already have Jones, Smalling, Evans and possibly Rojo for that.

RayCun

Your Airbag wrote: »

Moyes watched Kross and "apparently" meet with his agent. I think they were photgraphed together. If reports are to be belived Moyes had done some work on a deal and the same links started early this summer. Then our interest dropped when LVG took over.

This is simple to grasp stuff

think you left out a couple of "I understands", and a "I heard from a mate that"

Pro. F

homerjay2005 wrote: »

1. Rio
2. Vidic
3. Evra
4. Giggs
5. Buttner
6. Fabio
7. Bebe
8. Nani
9. Henriquez
10. Macheda

does that answer you serious question?

Bebe and Macheda will be down on any list you will see (sky sports, transferleague etc etc) but hey, big bad homerjay is not allowed to mention this because he will upset poor little Irishirish on boards.

Mention them all you want, it just makes your argument look weak.

Your Airbag

homerjay2005 wrote: »

1. Rio
2. Vidic
3. Evra
4. Giggs
5. Buttner
6. Fabio
7. Bebe
8. Nani
9. Henriquez
10. Macheda

does that answer you serious question?

Bebe and Macheda will be down on any list you will see (sky sports, transferleague etc etc) but hey, big bad homerjay is not allowed to mention this because he will upset poor little Irishirish on boards.

lol at Henriquez, Macheda and Bebe.

Rio and Giggs were rightly let go. Fabio made 3 apperances for us last season and never has held down a regualr first team palce.

IrishIrish

homerjay2005 wrote: »

1. Rio
2. Vidic
3. Evra
4. Giggs
5. Buttner
6. Fabio
7. Bebe
8. Nani
9. Henriquez
10. Macheda

does that answer you serious question?

Bebe and Macheda will be down on any list you will see (sky sports, transferleague etc etc) but hey, big bad homerjay is not allowed to mention this because he will upset poor little Irishirish on boards.

Why would I be upset? I get great entertainment laughing at your posts. Keep up the good work 'Big bad homerjay'

P.S. Thanks for answering.

MagicIRL

Do we know the details on the Nani loan? Is there an option to buy? I want him back next season after a full season tearing Portugal apart.

bullvine

homerjay2005 wrote: »

1. Rio
2. Vidic
3. Evra
4. Giggs
5. Buttner
6. Fabio
7. Bebe
8. Nani
9. Henriquez
10. Macheda

does that answer you serious question?

Bebe and Macheda will be down on any list you will see (sky sports, transferleague etc etc) but hey, big bad homerjay is not allowed to mention this because he will upset poor little Irishirish on boards.

You really are clutching, its not exactly Hughes, Ince and Kanchelskis.

Mitch Connor

Pro. F wrote: »

None of them need to be first choice material. We already have Jones, Smalling, Evans and possibly Rojo for that.

We are playing 3 at the back, and of the 4 defenders you mention 3 are very injury prone (one is injured right now) - with the 4th (Rojo) being a bit of a mad b'stard with regards to his booking and red card record. Based on the current players we have, we have to expect that Blacket and Keane will be needed for a decent number of games, and thus need to be premiership/first team quality - imo anyway.

homerjay2005

Pro. F wrote: »

Mention them all you want, it just makes your argument look weak.

what argument? i replied to you just to say its not the same group of players and you agreed with it, we moved on...

RGDATA!

Your Airbag wrote: »

We bid for Fabregas last summer when Barca and Cesc said he wasn't going anywhere. Barca said he is up for sale this summer and we did nothing when everyone expected us to bid. Media reports aside if you can't figure out LVG didn't want him from that I don't know what to tell you.

Moyes watched Kross and "apparently" meet with his agent. I think they were photgraphed together. If reports are to be belived Moyes had done some work on a deal and the same links started early this summer. Then our interest dropped when LVG took over.

This is simple to grasp stuff

No need to patronise me but thanks for your answer.
In short I wouldn't have thought it implausible that we were interested in both Kroos/Fabregas but both chose to go elsewhere? I'm not saying I know this for a fact, but it seems more likely to me than the idea we weren't interested in either.