Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Rayne Wooney

Di Maria is very very capable in a midfield 3 but not in a two man midfield

If he signed he would be playing right wing back for the foreseeable future until/if Van Gaal decides to change from 3412 IMO

Maximus Alexander

In my opinion if Di Maria can be got, he should be got.

kryogen

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

In my opinion if Di Maria can be got, he should be got.

You wouldn't see it as unbalancing the squad even more, and making it more top heavy?

Maximus Alexander

kryogen wrote: »

You wouldn't see it as unbalancing the squad even more, and making it more top heavy?

Probably, but I seriously rate him so I may not be thinking rationally.

yabadabado

There is no denying Di Maria is a class act and would improve the squad but I would rather CM was fixed.United need 2midfielders badly and until that is sorted I think all areas of the team will struggle.
If Vidal can't be got they should look at other options and get it sorted.
The team is very unbalanced ATM and Di Maria would only add to it IMO no matter how good he is.

Backstreet Moyes

What about.

---

DDG

---

---Rafael

---

Jones----Evans----Shaw

---

---

Herrera----Carrick---Di Maria

---

---

Mata

---

---

Rooney

---

RVP

---

Mikeyt086

If we sign Di Maria to play in a midfield 3 then we need to buy a defensive midfielder as well. For example, Carvalho or Khedira behind Herrera and Di Maria would be an excellent midfield 3, with Mata, Rooney and RVP allowed to roam ahead.

Unfortunately I don't see that other midfield signing happening. If we were to sign Vidal and Di Maria, I'll make every one a sig and buy one Vidal home shirt and one Di Maria home shirt and give both away to posters in this thread, a caption competition or something.

Adamocovic

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

If we sign Di Maria to play in a midfield 3 then we need to buy a defensive midfielder as well. For example, Carvalho or Khedira behind Herrera and Di Maria would be an excellent midfield 3, with Mata, Rooney and RVP allowed to roam ahead.

Unfortunately I don't see that other midfield signing happening. If we were to sign Vidal and Di Maria, I'll make every one a sig and buy one Vidal home shirt and one Di Maria home shirt and give both away to posters in this thread, a caption competition or something.

I hope Ed is browsing through this and the idea of a free shirt pushes him to make the signings! :P

Hulk Hands

Simplistic view and possibly over valueing a player significantly, but if you offered me Vidal for 56m or Di Maria for the same, it'd be Vidal all day long. It seems he's not on the market, but I'd love United to throw the money at Juve and see if they blink

Kirby

Will I Amnt wrote: »

What utter nonsense.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i normally like your posting, but i think you are being unfair here. i understand and accept what he is saying, so i think you are not picking him up right.

Paul Scholes said pretty much exactly the same a few hours ago.

It's fine man. It's not what I'm saying, its the fact that its me who's saying it. I could state that United play in red and good old Will would leap in here claiming I'm wrong and how dare I say that as United play in maroon! He just wants to disagree with me.

RobertKK

Graham Hunter on Off the Ball said that at Madrid, Di Maria is the second best player after Ronaldo.

Hunter said one could see how much better Madrid are when he is on the pitch, and tha he would put him in the top 5 best players in the world and should be on the Ballon Dor list.

The fans gave him the biggest cheer when he came on, his fellow team mates love him and the only person who doesn't see the mistake of pushing Di Maria out by the signing of James Rodriguez is Florentina Perez.
Hunter went as far as saying, signing players that the club doesn't need because they might not be able to get them in the future could end up leading to bigger problems for Madrid.
Perez is pushing out a player the other players want in the team.

United should just go all out for this signing. You can't beat signing quality that is genuine world class.

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

You wouldn't see it as unbalancing the squad even more, and making it more top heavy?

I think he'd be an excellent signing. Any player of that calibre should be bought especially if he plays the same position(s) as Valencia or Young.

Kirby

Imagine having Di Maria and Valencia in the same team. Go for Robben and get the hat-trick of the most one footed side in history!

In all seriousness though, is he going to play as a CM? And if he's going to play as a wing back in LvG's 3-5-2 system, would he do the defensive donkey work? I'm not so sure.

2moreMinutes

homerjay2005 wrote: »

summary - United could have financial pressures that are not necessarily publically evident and while we have money, its not as clear cut as the board is projecting. i just think it is a bit too coincidental that the deals were closed 3 days before the end of the financial year and then no spending for almost 2 months, followed by a big chunk of wage cuts kicking in 4 days later.

im sure people will dismiss this as bulls*t (and i am ok with this), but i wonder was Van Gaal told "if we dont spent money before June 30th, it may not be there for you and we have Shaw and herrera available to sign, so sign them now or risk losing that money".

and, is our financial commitments now that we are floated on NYSE, meaning that we have to structure deals around this (availablilty to pay upfront, installements and spread out throught contracts)...this limiting our ability to close deals?

if its a thing that we got the shaw and herrera deals done to allow more spending this financial year, then of course thats a plus, but it could also mean that LVG didnt have full input into signing shaw and herrera.

I'd have thought if the current year is projected to be worse than last year, it would make more sense to push all the transfers into the current year in order to try to fudge the results off to the more innocent observer by having all the transfers in the one financial year.
I'd also doubt the signings were needed to be completed before the year end or the money would be gone. As big a joke as some may claim the club is, I'm hoping its run a little better than a county council is.

Are players treated as a capital item in the accounts or are the transfer fees fully written off in whatever financial year they occur? I'd assume the former in which case its almost irrelevant which financial year the transfer takes place. (I am open to a major correction on my assumption of course as I'm not fully sure right now)

J. Marston

Shots fired from Scholes...

In the few weeks at the end of last season when I was part of Ryan Giggs’ coaching team at Manchester United, I was asked my opinion on whether the club should sign Cesc Fabregas or Toni Kroos this summer. I thought there was only one response to that difficult choice between two great players. I said United should sign them both.

I do not know what happened to the Kroos and Fabregas deals over the summer. The club were originally working on both of them. Perhaps the deal could not be done in the end. Either way, the situation now, with 11 days of the transfer window left, has become increasingly urgent for my former club. They have to sign some quality players.

I am scared for United. Genuinely scared that they could go into the wilderness in the same way that Liverpool did in the 1990s. I realise that it is just 15 months since United won the league for the 20th time in the club’s history.

I know that it is still the most commercially successful club in the country. It has the biggest stadium in the Premier League, and the biggest match-day revenue. But ultimately all a club’s success and standing are built on the foundations of what happens on the pitch.

After the defeat to Swansea City, and only one player signed since the end of June, I feel it is time for major change. What do United need? Five players. Not five players with potential. Five experienced players... for now. Five proper players who can hit the ground running and turn the situation around. United’s forwards are as good as any team in the league. The problem is what comes behind them.

My five would be: Xabi Alonso, Sami Khedira, Raphaël Varane, Angel Di Maria and Mats Hummels. It would be one very big cheque for Real Madrid, given that four of them would come from that club. It would be hard to land them all. But that is the level that United need at this stage of the transfer window. I have not seen a lot of Marcos Rojo. He may fit the bill.

Let us be clear about one thing. I am sick of having to criticise the club to which I gave my life as a footballer. But this is a United team that lost seven league games at Old Trafford last season and began on Saturday by losing at home to Swansea.

United need to arrest their decline. In those years under Sir Alex Ferguson, when trophy followed trophy, this sort of mediocrity was unthinkable. But it is happening. Looking at those five players, the obvious issue with Alonso for United fans would be his past with Liverpool. So what? He has that quality United lack. He is not the quickest but then he never was. Neither is Andrea Pirlo but he can play a bit. Alonso has a superb range of passing. He can shoot too. I noticed he signed a contract extension in January but, with Kroos as well as Luka Modric at his club, perhaps now would be the time he would consider leaving. I like Khedira for his energy and his experience. He has won the World Cup with Germany and the Champions League with Madrid in the space of two months. This is a footballer with confidence. His passing is more limited than Alonso but he has great qualities. And it seems as if he is available.

As for Di Maria, I feel £50m is a lot but he has something that Old Trafford has lacked of late. He would bring that excitement to home games. When United play at home, they need to have players that have the pace and ability to go past opponents and lift the crowd. The club have always had them in their best years: Ryan Giggs, Cristiano Ronaldo, Wayne Rooney, even Carlos Tevez. Antonio Valencia provided it, certainly in his early time there.

Today you look around the squad and ask who will give United that impetus at home. Adnan Januzaj? Playing away from home is a different prospect. There is less pressure to attack. You keep the ball, quieten the home support and wait for your opportunity. At home it is a different proposition.

I like Varane, and I feel his chances might be limited again this season at Madrid. Hummels has said many times that he is committed to Borussia Dortmund, but he has the sort of experience that United need in defence. Watching them on Saturday I was struck that every time Swansea were in United’s half it looked like they could score.

My concern, as ever, is about the longterm fitness of Jonny Evans, Phil Jones and Chris Smalling. In the 3-5-2 system, Jones and Smalling never looked solid. Jones is another one of those for whom the question of “potential” comes up. He is 22 now and has been a United player for three years. I don’t feel that he senses danger in the way that a centre-half should do. I would prefer him to play at right-back, or in midfield.

As for Chris Smalling, he just looked exposed in the 3-5-2 formation. There were times when Wilfried Bony seemed to get the better of him physically. Neither Jones nor Smalling are great talkers on the pitch. Ideally, you would have liked Tyler Blackett to take his first steps in the senior team alongside Nemanja Vidic or Rio Ferdinand, but even saying that I find myself asking, why are United’s current centre-halves not up to it?

I still have my doubts about Van Gaal’s 3-5-2 formation. I did wonder during the World Cup whether he looked at the Netherlands squad available to him and decided that his best bet was to pack the midfield, make his side as tight as possible and hope Robin van Persie or Arjen Robben could get him goals. I wouldn’t say it was exciting football. I worry that he might be taking the same approach at United. It is not all Van Gaal’s fault. The problems have been there for a while. I suppose I should have realised that the very fact I was still playing for United at 38 years old was a sign that there was not enough pressure on us senior players from those coming into the side. It was the same last season with Ryan. At times last season he was the best player on the pitch, at the age of 40.

The sad, and worrying, aspect of it all, after watching Manchester City and Chelsea over the first three days of the season, is that United are not on that level. They may not even be on the same level as Arsenal and Liverpool, who I think are the next grade down. United must make some signings in the last two weeks of the transfer window. The club continues to be a commercial success. But that is based, like everything else at a football club, on what happens on the pitch. That is the simple basis of any great club and United are no different. We are told that the money is there. I would say that now is the time to start spending it.

I highlighted some of the points that stuck out to me. He doesn't hold back and makes some good points. Hopefully it hits home at Old Trafford and they realise that we're in serious danger of accepting mediocrity.

Kirby

The man speaks sense.

Christy Browne

Other than the absolutely ludicrous suggestion of signing four Real Madrid players in one go, he's fairly spot on there

Liam O

Christy Browne wrote: »

Other than the absolutely ludicrous suggestion of signing four Real Madrid players in one go, he's fairly spot on there

Yeah, more are probably needed

As much as I like Di Maria, unless he's being signed as a winger (which I think Reus would be a better option for the money being bandied about) then I'd just give the central place to Kagawa and see where it can go. Really don't understand why 2 managers now are leaving him out, especially after the improvement the team showed when he got a run of games last season. Maybe he's having trouble with the language or attitude because it's pretty baffling when even Nani comes on ahead of him only to be shipped out a couple of days later.

shadowcomplex

J. Marston wrote: »

Shots fired from Scholes...



I highlighted some of the points that stuck out to me. He doesn't hold back and makes some good points. Hopefully it hits home at Old Trafford and they realise that we're in serious danger of accepting mediocrity.

I think we would be fine with 3 , I think alonso may be past it too but would still take him , if we are sticking to 343 dimaria , a world class cb and a def midfielder are needed

If we are going to go to 433 I'd like cuadrado too

shadowcomplex

It's really depressing being a United fan at present , we should be going into the new season on a high . Everyone expected the lessons of last season were learned , if we consider our selfs up there with the reals , barcas and bayerns of this world we really need to be more vocal in the transfer market , I'm still hoping for a mega outlay of Vidal dimaria and a works class centre back before the window closes

Giggsy11

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Mata is reportedly on 150 thousand a week, Di Maria should get 130-140 IMO

He's on 88k a week at Madrid apparently

Mata is on 150K gross, Di Maria is on 88K net. Spanish, Italian papers report net wages whereas English papers report Gross.

Will I Amnt

Kirby wrote: »

It's fine man. It's not what I'm saying, its the fact that its me who's saying it. I could state that United play in red and good old Will would leap in here claiming I'm wrong and how dare I say that as United play in maroon! He just wants to disagree with me.

That's not true, I don't recall off hand ever having a disagreement with you over a point you made, your posting style however...
So if you want to play the victim card to gloss over the silly point you made then fair enough but I'd prefer if you tried to explain said point.

Coat22

Sweet love of God that Scholes interview is depressing to wake up to.

Not sure what is worse - the fact that he is absolutely spot on or the fact that he is saying exactly what most of us on here are in which case its not rocket science and I am now seriously worried about whats wrong with the club.

The man has seen it all - what he says matters from a United point of view - getting more depressed by the minute here.

The_Kew_Tour

Any chance of signing a decent top class CM Ed please?

Cheers

Ed The Equalizer

Have to say, am genuinely scared about the wilderness thing too. We were there before for 25 years and next summer Liverpool will have been there for 25 years too.

If it happens history will reflect badly on the Glazers, but for me the pivotal moment was the combination of elderly egos at the club that decided Mourinho shouldn't be the new manager in 2013.

dahat

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Any chance of signing a decent top class CM Ed please?

Cheers

I'd have that before Di Maria, we can cope without him but midfield is shocking really. Things look really bleak in that area with regards a player coming in, not even a top class one.

Mr Alan

Taok wrote: »

Have to say, am genuinely scared about the wilderness thing too. We were there before for 25 years and next summer Liverpool will have been there for 25 years too.

Really?

buckfasterer

It's times like this when you wish it was like a game of Football Manager. You have loads of money to spend but you dont so the owners of the club step in and make a marquee signing to apease the fans.

Mantis Toboggan

Lads are united paying Nani's full wage?

MagicIRL

Can we stick "United are paying Nani's full wages" in the thread title please?

Robson99

To be honest no one can argue with Schools assessment of the players we have. He has played with these guys and knows inside out what it takes to be a United player. For those who gave defended fergie in all of this the note of him highlighting his and giggs age and nothing challenging them for their positions. Surprised he hasn't mentioned Vidal

Will I Amnt

Mr Alan wrote: »

Really

It's still kind of the wilderness relative to the sustained success Liverpool had beforehand. The same as it would be for United if they were to go on the exact same run from now.

advertsfox

Nuts102 wrote: »

What about.

---

DDG

---

---Rafael

---

Jones----Evans----Shaw

---

---

Herrera----Carrick---Di Maria

---

---

Mata

---

---

Rooney

---

RVP

---

Don't suppose there's any room for the recently acquired Rojo eh?

8-10

Will I Amnt wrote: »

It's still kind of the wilderness relative to the sustained success Liverpool had beforehand. The same as it would be for United if they were to go on the exact same run from now.

United are too big financially for that to happen.

FutureGuy

Mr Alan wrote: »

Really?

You see Mr. Alan, you've hit the nail on the head. Some people are indeed afraid of returning to the wilderness like Liverpool. You've come in here and posted a picture of the 2005 European cup, remembered for all time as one of the greatest capitulations a by a team in living memory.

And that's it. For 25 years. We've won countless trophies in that time and I have so many fantastic memories of celebrating league and cup wins. They are almost like a blur.

I dont want United to turn into a team where a single crazy night defines a quarter of a century and my opponents misery is more important than my own team almost winning the title.

That's all I heard from a lot of Liverpool fans. Our demise was more important than themselves being 2 games from a Premier League title.

That to me is the perfect definition of wilderness and is something that every United fan should be terrified about.

Will I Amnt

8-10 wrote: »

United are too big financially for that to happen.

That's what I always liked to think...
No good having all this money if it's not going to be spent on improving the team. Time will tell, there's still 2 weeks left but there needs to be some major improvements brought in during that time.

Liam McPoyle

Mr Alan wrote: »

Really?

At this point the reply should merely be the scene from Trainspotting when Sick Boy and the Mother Superiour were discussing Sean Connerys fall from grace in the movie world.

The Name of the Rose was a blip in an otherwise downwards trajectory.

Just like the above.

adox

Will I Amnt wrote: »

That's what I always liked to think...
No good having all this money if it's not going to be spent on improving the team. Time will tell, there's still 2 weeks left but there needs to be some major improvements brought in during that time.

The depressing thing is circa £140 million has been pumped into the squad in the last 12 months and as it stands they look like they will struggle to get 4th place.

It's complacency to say they are too big or too rich for it to happen. Ok maybe not 25 years but they could easily get left behind for 6 or 7 years or longer.

RasTa

Mr Alan wrote: »

Really?

Amazing how you've kicked on since then. Also obviously winning everything domestically beforehand...

Tom.D.BJJ

Love Paul Scholes

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/paul-scholes-manchester-united-need-five-experienced-players-who-can-turn-round-a-desperate-situation-9681747.html

The_Kew_Tour

I have said thid countless times but United dont gave any devine right to anything.

Yoi have to earn it. Having loads of money is not worth F all if you spend it on rubbish in some cases.

No magic wand is going to appear to make us top team again. We have to fight for it.

We are not in wilderness just yet and that should happen if we miss out on 3 or 4 CL spots nut we are going the wrong way.

We need to turn around before it gets tougher.

Leroy42

adox wrote: »

It's complacency to say they are too big or too rich for it to happen. Ok maybe not 25 years but they could easily get left behind for 6 or 7 years or longer.

The problem is, and we are seeing the 1st signs of it now with players like Mueller and Rues not signing, is that top players only sign for top clubs. History, as Liverpool found out, has nothing to do with it.

ONce you fall out of the top clubs most top players will not take the risk that you might not make it back into the CL. National teams, CL games etc all depend on playing for a big club. Why should any top player waste a year, and potentially more, of his career on a 'struggling' club when he could go straight into a top club.

Once that rot sets in, it is almost a vivious circle and very hard to get out. Utd will get away with one year out of the top, but two signals a trend. 2 or 3 years suddenly turn into 5. Top players don't come, top managers won't come. Then the commerical deals start to become smaller, fan base drifts, less money, can't bid for big names etc etc

Like in politics, by the time people work out that things are going badly, its already too late.

KH25

If we don't sign at least another CM this window I will be baffled. If that happens something needs to change.

MagicMarker

Looks like Scholes should have been the one made Assistant Manager.

kippy

Leroy42 wrote: »

The problem is, and we are seeing the 1st signs of it now with players like Mueller and Rues not signing, is that top players only sign for top clubs. History, as Liverpool found out, has nothing to do with it.

ONce you fall out of the top clubs most top players will not take the risk that you might not make it back into the CL. National teams, CL games etc all depend on playing for a big club. Why should any top player waste a year, and potentially more, of his career on a 'struggling' club when he could go straight into a top club.

Once that rot sets in, it is almost a vivious circle and very hard to get out. Utd will get away with one year out of the top, but two signals a trend. 2 or 3 years suddenly turn into 5. Top players don't come, top managers won't come. Then the commerical deals start to become smaller, fan base drifts, less money, can't bid for big names etc etc

Like in politics, by the time people work out that things are going badly, its already too late.

History doesn't but money does.........
One only has to look at City, Chelsea, PSG, Monaco etc etc

The critical thing here is money for the right players.

homerjay2005

Kirby wrote: »

The man speaks sense.

Not alot different in there to what most realistic fans think and what many people on here have been saying all summer, though the 5 players thing is a bit much.

When you see Neville coming out and pretty much saying money was wasted and then Scholes having a pop the following day, you know something is not right. Giggs is close to both,he must be feeling it, Van Gaal must be feeling it.

It really is a sad time for our club. Mediocre sums the entire thing.

KH25

Van Gaal must be aware of the situation. He just has to be. If he is then I would expect him to be pushing for signings. Assuming that's the case, why haven't the signings been made?

Our transfer policy has become a joke. Fabregas last year summed it up for me. At the time he didn't want to leave and Barca didn't want to sell. So instead of making them an offer to turn their heads we tried to low ball them for the entire saga. Then deadline day comes and we have nothing to show for it leading to Fellaini being bought for more than he was available.

This apparent haggling and trying to get cheap deals on big players is going to cost the club more money in the long run. Moreover we will be stuck with a bunch of overpaid mediocre players that were bought in panic.

MagicIRL

Lads, as disgruntled as some of you are regarding the lack of signings, moaning on an internet forum won't even remotely solve it, so what's the point?

Leftist

MagicIRL wrote: »

Lads, as disgruntled as some of you are regarding the lack of signings, moaning on an internet forum won't even remotely solve it, so what's the point?

so what's approved for discussion then?

Lord TSC

MagicIRL wrote: »

Lads, as disgruntled as some of you are regarding the lack of signings, moaning on an internet forum won't even remotely solve it, so what's the point?

In fairness, it's a discussion forum and everyone is entitled to their opinions. I don't nessecarily get the point of posting the same point over and over and over, but if that's what they want to do (provided it doesn't approach trolling levels), they are more than entitled to do it.