Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Pro. F

Peist2007 wrote: »

What basic type of defensive knowledge do you think he has? Do you not see how presumptuous and laden with guesswork the above is?

I also thought United were playing with wing-backs and 3 centre halves rather than a "flat back 5"

I specifically said: "As of this moment Scholes has done nothing to prove that he is a reliable judge of centre-backs, that he has anything more than a basic midfielder's understanding of defensive organisation or that he has any understanding of the defensive shape of a 3412."

Scholes could be a defensive genius with a special interest in the workings of 3 centre-back systems, but as of now he has expressed none of that. In fact he neglected to mention any details about the defensive set up when he was criticising our young centre-backs. In his playing days he was at best an adequate midfield defender, so assuming that he has a midfielders' type of basic understanding of defensive organisation is reasonable.

Pro. F

Peist2007 wrote: »

Vision is more to do with spacial awareness. Ball control can be cited as an element to any skill in the game but, without an appreciation of the space, no amount of ball control can help you

I agree that spacial awareness is very important. But if you are looking down at the ball, or playing your way into tighter spots because you have miscontrolled it, or not making extra room for yourself with good control then you won't be able to look up and use your spacial awareness to pick out a pass.

RobertKK

Lord TSC wrote: »

Reading on Reddit that Woodward's office number leaked today online, and that he's had to disconnect it now, since they were getting loads of calls telling (his secretary) to sign DiMaria....

...and hopefully Vidal too.

The transfer saga of summer 2014.

Kirby

beno619 wrote: »

Ronaldo was the bargain of the century.

He is now. But at the time he was the most expensive player ever. You can't compare todays prices to the prices of 4 years ago. Football doesn't work like that.

Maximus Alexander

bucketybuck wrote: »

No, this whole argument began when Scholes mildly criticised our defenders and then one poster said Scholes opinion should be disregarded because of blah blah reasons.

I just think people are entitled to disagree with Scholes. They might be wrong, but they're not automatically wrong because it's Scholes. That's all I'm saying.

This "what have you done in the game to have the right to question him" stuff irritates me.

The_Kew_Tour

James Maccarthy was a bet.

Kirby

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I just think people are entitled to disagree with Scholes. They might be wrong, but they're not automatically wrong because it's Scholes. That's all I'm saying.

This "what have you done in the game to have the right to question him" stuff irritates me.

True. Your point is a valid one. People used to say the same thing about Fergie. Nobody is infallible. As successful as he was, he made some howlers both tactically and transfer wise. That's football. Nobody is right all the time.]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with everything he said. In my opinion, Scholes is right on the money. But it's the content of the message, not who says it that's important. If he claimed everything was hunky dory I wouldn't take it as gospel just because it was Scholes who said it.

billyhead

With Di Maria wishing to leave Madrid I reckon they would prefer to sell him to us in that PSG would be direct rivals in the CL. As everyone else knows he should not be our main target for the remainder of the window. We need a quality CM first and foremost and I feel LVG has identified Strootman as that player. I doubt we will sign any more players this window and we will wait until January for Strootman which may be difficult due to the time of the year and Romas reluctance to sell. If we have to wait until next Summer for him we may miss out on a top 4 as Liverpool are getting all their positions filled and now have a strength in debth. Its going to be a interesting season.

twam2008

Liverpool U21 v United U21's on BT Sport 2 tomorrow night, starting to appreciate signing up at 12.35 last Saturday now

Maximus Alexander

billyhead wrote: »

With Di Maria wishing to leave Madrid I reckon they would prefer to sell him to us in that PSG would be direct rivals in the CL.

I have a feeling lack of CL could be a fairly big deal to Di Maria, if he's even a target. I would love to see him at the club though.

beno619

Pro. F wrote: »

Re Scholes' article:
He is brutally honest and his inside information is very interesting. But in truth, so far he is just another great player who has not gone on to being a great pundit.

I wouldn't go as far as saying he's a poor pundit already, I think he definitely lacks the incite on the defensive side of the game which is a fairer comment to make.

keane2097

This all makes me wonder if everyone criticising Mike Phelan and/or Steve Round was a gob****e as well.

Reedsie

beno619 wrote: »

Ronaldo was the bargain of the century.

Hindsight is wonderful. At the time most fans were happy to see him go for the money received.

beno619

Kirby wrote: »

He is now. But at the time he was the most expensive player ever. You can't compare todays prices to the prices of 4 years ago. Football doesn't work like that.

At the time I though we should have held out for £100m, Madrid made their money back in a year. Bargain of the century.

Zico

Pro. F wrote: »

This is all I have done:

Not reading all that.

We all disagree with the opinions of people in the game who really know a lot more than we ever will.

Hococop

Reedsie wrote: »

Hindsight is wonderful. At the time most fans were happy to see him go for the money received.

Money helped but I doubt many were happy to see him go

DM_7

Di Maria would be a massive upgrade on the existing wide men and the on loan Nani, I agree with the poster who said its a signing you would be making for today and for down the line over the next few years where United will be looking to catch up on the Real, Bayern etc rather than just City and Chelsea.

Would be a higher class of signing than I expected this summer.

A 4-3-3 becomes a good option then with Mata or Kagawa as the third midfield player, Carrick and Herrera the other two players. I would want an improvement on Carrick though to make full use, even a short term signing. I can see Van Gaal waiting on Strootman though. Maybe he can get Fellaini performing

Mitch Connor

beno619 wrote: »

At the time I though we should have held out for £100m, Madrid made their money back in a year. Bargain of the century.

How did they make the money back in a year?

There jersey sales generally remain at the same numbers year in year, or increase at a similar rate to other clubs. United, for example, sell basically the same amount. That amount is about 1.4million. To make their money back they'd need to sell twice as many jerseys as normal, and take more than 50% of every jersey sale which would surprise me.

They could well afford him, but the figures don't back up the myth of Jersey sales recouping major costs. It would require sponsor deals that would surprise me, as well as an argument the over a million people that would not have bought the kit, ended up buying it just because of the one purchase.

Corvo

Pro F, I'm not a fan of your posting style, but find you gave a very honest and realistic opinion there.

Remember I said style, but always appreciated your knowledge on the subject.

Good work

Zico

I can't believe anyone is talking about Di Maria while the defence and midfield aren't fit for purpose.

Maybe if Scholes spent more time speculating about new strikers people would appreciate his opinions more.

Cantstandsya

Hococop wrote: »

Money helped but I doubt many were happy to see him go

Who cares whether he was sold for 80 million or 100 million? As far as the team is concerned he may as well have went for a billion euro or a fiver since not 1 cent of his fee was reinvested.

Headshot

Zico wrote: »

I can't believe anyone is talking about Di Maria while the defence and midfield aren't fit for purpose.

Maybe if Scholes spent more time speculating about new strikers people would appreciate his opinions more.

Maybe the club are still thinking of those positions.

Personally if I only saw Di Maria as the last signing this transfer window, ill be ****ing delighted tbh. He's a game winner and utd have missed this for some time. If you can get a player of Di Maria quality, you cant turn it down

Mitch Connor

Cantstandsya wrote: »

Who cares whether he was sold for 80 million or 100 million? As far as the team is concerned he may as well have went for a billion euro or a fiver since not 1 cent of his fee was reinvested.

We've not spent well, but we've spent fortunes.

RobertKK

Zico wrote: »

I can't believe anyone is talking about Di Maria while the defence and midfield aren't fit for purpose.

Maybe if Scholes spent more time speculating about new strikers people would appreciate his opinions more.

Because if a player is available of that high class, a team might only get one opportunity to sign such a player.

We need other players but ADM gives more formation options when we sign more midfielders.

Cantstandsya

Mitch Connor wrote: »

We've not spent well, but we've spent fortunes.

Spent fortunes but not the Ronaldo money. That money went into the debt that year.

Vinz Mesrine

Headshot wrote: »

Maybe the club are still thinking of those positions.

Personally if I only saw Di Maria as the last signing this transfer window, ill be ****ing delighted tbh. He's a game winner and utd have missed this for some time. If you can get a player of Di Maria quality, you cant turn it down

Di Maria is a fantastic player and I'd be insanely jealous if United managed to sign him but he just isn't what you need right now. Attacking options aren't an issue for United so why throw ANOTHER player into an already packed area, assuming of course he is being signed as a winger and not as a CM.

The Moldy Gowl

Cantstandsya wrote: »

Spent fortunes but not the Ronaldo money. That money went into the debt that year.

Whut whut?

So you agree it was spent on players?

Was there a certain barcode on the money that you were tracking?

twam2008

PSG saying they can't really move for Di Maria this year.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11835/9433315/transfer-news-psg-boss-laurent-blanc-admits-ffp-could-prevent-angel-di-maria-move

DM_7

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

Di Maria is a fantastic player and I'd be insanely jealous if United managed to sign him but he just isn't what you need right now. Attacking options aren't an issue for United so why throw ANOTHER player into an already packed area, assuming of course he is being signed as a winger and not as a CM.

It is an issue though, the best wide player is a 19 year old no 10 (Januzaj), after that its play Young/Valencia or Mata, Kagawa out wide. Its just not good enough.

Vinz Mesrine

DM-ICE wrote: »

It is an issue though, the best wide player is a 19 year old no 10 (Januzaj), after that its play Young/Valencia or Mata, Kagawa out wide. Its just not good enough.

If LVG plays with wingbacks as expected then wide players won't be needed. Trust me, I'm delighted to see United failing to address the squad issues, I just can't understand people wanting Di Maria signed when there are so many glaring issues in the squad.

Zico

Was it that long ago that Utd fans would look down on Madrid and Barca fans for how easily they were won over by club presidents who offered to buy big name strikers while making it near policy not to invest in defenders or defensive midfielders?

The current scenario would have had Utd fans of the past in stitches if it was going on at another club.:(

billyhead

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

Di Maria is a fantastic player and I'd be insanely jealous if United managed to sign him but he just isn't what you need right now. Attacking options aren't an issue for United so why throw ANOTHER player into an already packed area, assuming of course he is being signed as a winger and not as a CM.

Everyone knows he would not be the 1st choice player we should go after, but if Vidal is not available their are not many options out their apart from Strootman in January. I have a feeling we could sign Di Maria next week as Woodward will want a big name player to appease the fans and you can always make room for a world class player like him. Di Maria would rip teams apart in the Premier League and scare the **** out of opposing defences when he goes on his typical runs. He would add another dimension to our attacking threat and he could be the match winner in tight games.

Your Airbag

So we have to wait and see does LVG want Di Maria. Will he change the system or will he pass on the players or find a workaround?

Is everybody happy with UTD spending the 70m that Madrid are looking for?

redbaron_99

Personally I think central midfield partner for Herrera is the most important signing that we need to make. Khedira would make a lot of sense.
I'd be quite happy with just him before the window closes.
The defence isn't perfect, but we can manage with what we have now.
Di Maria is a luxury that I would love to see at United. But still a luxury.

Vinz Mesrine

billyhead wrote: »

Everyone knows he would not be the 1st choice player we should go after, but if Vidal is not available their are not many options out their apart from Strootman in January. I have a feeling we could sign Di Maria next week as Woodward will want a big name player to appease the fans and you can always make room for a world class player like him. Di Maria would rip teams apart in the Premier League and scare the **** out of opposing defences when he goes on his typical runs. He would add another dimension to our attacking threat and he could be the match winner in tight games.

United are fine in the front 3rd of the pitch, more than fine. In Rooney, RVP and Mata they have 3 match winners.

Schwiiing

Your Airbag wrote: »

So we have to wait and see does LVG want Di Maria. Will he change the system or will he pass on the players or find a workaround?

Is everybody happy with UTD spending the 70m that Madrid are looking for?

Could go after 2 quality CM midfield options for that kind of money.

Vinz Mesrine

Schwiiing wrote: »

Could go after 2 quality CM midfield options for that kind of money.

This is exactly my point.
50m+ on Di Maria
>40m on Schneiderlen and Kheidira.

twam2008

I would prefer they spent money on a DM and another CB, but as each days passes it becomes more unlikely and when an opportunity like this presents itself could be foolish to turn our noses up at it.

Cantstandsya

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Whut whut?

So you agree it was spent on players?

Was there a certain barcode on the money that you were tracking?

Are you telling me that following the sale United spent 80 million more than they had planned before the sale of Ronaldo?

Let's see, Ronaldo was sold in 09, in 09-10 and 10-11 the following were signed: Antonio Valencia, Michael Owen, Gabriel Obertan, Mame Biram Diouf, Marnick Vermiji, Chris Smalling, Javier Hernandez, Bebe, Anders Lindegaard.

Are you kidding me in suggesting that the Ronaldo money was reinvested? Who was he replaced by? Valencia? Hernandez?

United are in the top three richest clubs in the world, their spending in those years (and since) showed no indication of that, regardless of the fact that they supposedly had 80 million quid extra to spend.

It's pretty obvious where that money went. Look at Man U's income and expenditure since the Glazers took over.

Also, the phrase "spent a fortune" is completely meaningless in this context. Yeah, to plebs like you and me United spend fortunes, in the context of the world in which they operate they under invest (regardless of what those nonsense net figures from Sky Sports suggest)

irishfeen

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

This is exactly my point.
50m+ on Di Maria
>40m on Schneiderlen and Kheidira.

Why can't we have all 3? :pac:

Your Airbag

SSN have just said "Where is Sami Kheidira going? we have the latest transfer news after the break"

MOst likely a load of guess work from yer man with the "sky pad". I'll keep you updated

Vinz Mesrine

irishfeen wrote: »

Why can't we have all 3? :pac:

Because this isn't football manager

DM_7

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

If LVG plays with wingbacks as expected then wide players won't be needed. Trust me, I'm delighted to see United failing to address the squad issues, I just can't understand people wanting Di Maria signed when there are so many glaring issues in the squad.

Issues that are overstated when it comes to the EPL on its own. I don't know who you support but if its Arsenal or Chelsea you know that a poor attack cost them both last season while City and Liverpool (maybe you support them??) had excellant attacks (City with great options, Pool with movement, pace)

It will take a lot to get back to a European cup winning contender but not that much to be a EPL winning contender. A balanced, strong attack supported by an organised functional defence and midfield would be enough this season. The attack options at United are not good enough right now when I lok at the all round quality and options.

Van Gaal already said he doesn't have the wide player like Di Maria to play 4-3-3.

Obviously United need another midfield player but the idea it needs to be a Vidal this summer I don't agree with in this scenario, that can come later if a player like Di Maria can be got.

twam2008

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

Because this isn't football manager

Ha ha, someone should tell Brendan Rogers.

irishfeen

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

Because this isn't football manager

Well the money is there so ... open the wallet and make headlines around the world :pac:

Your Airbag

SSN went with this.

"Bayern and Arsenal interested in Kheidira. Bayern chairman said he is the type of player Bayern need"

"Di Maria wants to leave, two clubs interested, UTD are one, is it a coincidence they let a winger leave this week?

TL;DR: A load of bollocks

Schwiiing

How attainable/affordable would the likes of Pjanic, Verratti or Illarimendi be?

Vinz Mesrine

DM-ICE wrote: »

Issues that are overstated when it comes to the EPL on its own. I don't know who you support but if its Arsenal or Chelsea you know that a poor attack cost them both last season while City and Liverpool (maybe you support them??) had excellant attacks (City wiyh great options, Pool with movement, pace)

It will take a lot to get back to a European cup winning contender but not that much to be a EPL winning contender. A balanced, strong attack supported by an organised functional defendce and midfield would be enough this season. The attack options at United are not good enough right now when I lok at the all round quality and options.

Van Gaal already said he doesn't have the wide player like Di Maria to play 4-3-3.

Obviously United need another midfield player but the idea it needs to be a Vidal this summer I don't agree with in this scenario, that can come later if a player like Di Maria can be got.

Uniteds current attack is more than capable of 50+ goals this season, throw in the likes of Welbeck and Hernandez with others and that's another 20/25.

With that amount of goals, a league title is very much a possibly but only if things are tightened up at the back. There are serious question marks in one way or another about the 4 United centre halves. Then in front you have Herrera and not much else in the way of protection.

I think a Khediera style player would do wonders for Uniteds top 4 aspirations. Di Maria, not so much.

Lord TSC

If we dont bring in another CM, it won't be because DiMaria signed or not; it'll be because the level of player we want isn't available (be it cause the club wont sell or the player doesn't want to come).

Vinz Mesrine

Lord TSC wrote: »

If we dont bring in another CM, it won't be because DiMaria signed or not; it'll be because the level of player we want isn't available (be it cause the club wont sell or the player doesn't want to come).

If the level of player isn't available then surely you drop down to the next level.

If Vidal isn't available, go for someone below him.