Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Look I'm not looking to pull this into a debate about what Rooney is worth, but all I'm stating here is that compared to the top 6 it's not good news at all.

beno619

Coat22 wrote: »

Was that the feeling at OT last weekend? That we're seriously better off with Smalling / Evans / Jones and a couple of kids with Young playing at Left back than we would have been with Vermaelen???

If so there's a serious case of sour grapes in Manchester

Nope, ideally Rojo would have been signed in time to play.

MagicIRL

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I'm sorry but his value has decreased in the last five years so not sure how it's irrelevant what Chelsea bid for him. That's what they valued him at. Lets be honest here.

We bought him for 26m I think. Do you not think he would go for 30m? Bearing in mind he's the future England WC Captain, United Captain and is English.

I honestly can not see him being sold for less than United paid.

Shane Long just went for 12m.

Adamcp898

beno619 wrote: »

Maybe because there broke?

They're broke not bankrupt.

They're clearly making a conscience decision to make a loss on a player who, since he signed, has actually done really well for them. That would make you think there's something else motivating the sale.

It's actually a really good deal from Liverpool's point of view and tbh one I'd be a little afraid of.

beno619

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I'm sorry but his value has decreased in the last five years so not sure how it's irrelevant what Chelsea bid for him. That's what they valued him at. Lets be honest here.

Yep PSG paid 50m for David Luiz reflecting his true value.

Lord TSC

MagicIRL wrote: »

We bought him for 26m I think. Do you not think he would go for 30m? Bearing in mind he's the future England WC Captain, United Captain and is English.

I honestly can not see him being sold for less than United paid.

Shane Long just went for 12m.

Personally, I'd say he'd go for round 20m right now.

That's based on his age, how long I think he'll be playing for, and (most importantly) the astronomical wages he'd be asking for; teams would want a cut down price to help towards his wages.

MagicIRL

MagicIRL wrote: »

We bought him for 26m I think. Do you not think he would go for 30m? Bearing in mind he's the future England WC Captain, United Captain and is English.

I honestly can not see him being sold for less than United paid.

Shane Long just went for 12m.

OK let's say it's debateable about Rooney, so apologies my post above came in late.

My main point being when compared to the top 6 in relation to resale it's not good news at all. And this is an clear indication of the obvious regression in the squad.

MagicIRL

M!Ck^ wrote: »

OK let's say it's debateable about Rooney, so apologies my post above came in late.

My main point being when compared to the top 6 in relation to resale it's not good news at all. And this is an clear indication of the obvious regression in the squad.

De Gea, Rafael have gone up.

Smalling and Jones have gone down.

Evans hasn't changed I don't think. Hasn't played consistantly enough. May be down due to lack of playing, but he seems to know what he's doing when he does play.

Evra has retired. He definately was worth more than what was paid for him but was kept on. Shaw should increase, but it's early days.

In midfield, Fletcher, Carrick and TC23 have gone down. Valencia, Young and Nani have gone down. Herrera and Fellaini are too new, although I doubt Fellaini will ever be a 30m player.

Up front, Rooney has gone up IMO. RVP has remained the same. Mata has remained the same, although he may go up in value as he too is new. Welbeck has gone up.

In relation to youth, Januzaj has gone way up. Wilson, the Keanes, Blackett, Janko etc have all gone up, but they've yet to break the first team (bar Adnan) so we'll reserve calling them.

beno619

Smalling has definitely gone up, England international ect.

SherlockWatson

homerjay2005 wrote: »

despite what some people said on here, i dont think many fans actually wanted him - it was a very strange signings to go after.

Not strange at all.

He was looking for a ball playing Cb who is left footed.


It wasn't strange, it was exactly what we need, albeit lower quality than we should be aiming for.

VW 1

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Rafael was got on a free and we'd get decent money for him now, imo, so him.

We paid 5 million for the twins.

Zico

redbaron_99 wrote: »

The problem the club is facing is that we are based in Manchester. Some players don't want to live there.

I'm surprised City haven't done an 'Anzhi Makhachkala' on it and built their training centre near London then fly up for home games.

homerjay2005

SherlockWatson wrote: »

Not strange at all.

He was looking for a ball playing Cb who is left footed.


It wasn't strange at all, it was exactly what we need, albeit lower quality than we should be aiming for.

but your point there in bold is exactly the reason why i said it was strange!

added to that, its the fact that he is really injury proned, something we already have a huge problem with.

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

but your point there in bold is exactly the reason why i said it was strange!

added to that, its the fact that he is really injury proned, something we already have a huge problem with.

The reasons it didn't make sense:

Quality was questionable.
Injury record.

The reasons it did make sense:

PL experienced.
Left footed.
Good on the ball.
Tutored at Ajax, so likely has a good knowledge of the methods LVG would look to implement.

Considering I reckon he was one of two CBs LVG wants or wanted, it was really only the injury record that I would have had issues with. I reckon the pro's would have outweighed the cons, and the price Barca paid would have been reasonable.

MagicIRL

MagicIRL wrote: »

De Gea, Rafael have gone up.

Smalling and Jones have gone down.

Evans hasn't changed I don't think. Hasn't played consistantly enough. May be down due to lack of playing, but he seems to know what he's doing when he does play.

Evra has retired. He definately was worth more than what was paid for him but was kept on. Shaw should increase, but it's early days.

In midfield, Fletcher, Carrick and TC23 have gone down. Valencia, Young and Nani have gone down. Herrera and Fellaini are too new, although I doubt Fellaini will ever be a 30m player.

Up front, Rooney has gone up IMO. RVP has remained the same. Mata has remained the same, although he may go up in value as he too is new. Welbeck has gone up.

In relation to youth, Januzaj has gone way up. Wilson, the Keanes, Blackett, Janko etc have all gone up, but they've yet to break the first team (bar Adnan) so we'll reserve calling them.

Still feeling there's a bit of denial in here, Most of the players being mentioned above clearly debatable when it come to valuation.
Bottom line; There is hardly any player in the whole of the squad other than Januzaj & De Gea who have increased considerably in value.

MagicIRL

What's a considerble increase then? 25%? 50%? 100%?

Spazdarn

MagicIRL wrote: »

What's a considerble increase then? 25%? 50%? 100%?

Evra hasn't retired

RobertKK

El Mercurio of Chile claiming united are looking to sign Vidal and that a deal of £35 million plus Hernandez is being discussed.
They say LVG wants to see Vidal playing this weekend to see how his knee is.

magnumbud

RobertKK wrote: »

El Mercurio of Chile claiming united are looking to sign Vidal and that a deal of £35 million plus Hernandez is being discussed.
They say LVG wants to see Vidal playing this weekend to see how his knee is.

lol they have been saying stuff like that since the WC

RobertKK

For what it is worth...ie very little.,,


Di Maria's wife favourited the picture of Rojo and ADM with the united background on Instagram.

advertsfox

Not more Vidal rumours - I can't take any more hurting!

Spazdarn

Nonsense, if United come out and saw we're making a bid we'll see how it goes...then I'll believe it.

bucketybuck

RasTa wrote: »

The big question is should I make a transfer in FF this week?

Its too late to make a transfer for this week, unless of course you have already spent the requisite two weeks preparing your bid? Even if you have, most FF leagues need time to prepare to receive a transfer so it could be a close run thing.

Mitch Connor

RobertKK wrote: »

El Mercurio of Chile claiming united are looking to sign Vidal and that a deal of £35 million plus Hernandez is being discussed.
They say LVG wants to see Vidal playing this weekend to see how his knee is.

same paper says Juve want 40million plus Hernandez.

On the chance there is truth to this...

If LVG wants him.
If we have bid 35million plus Hernandez.
If Juve have said they want/will accept 40million plus Hernandez...

Just fecking offer 40million plus hernandez and get it done.

Missing out on a world class player, a player your manager wants signed, for the sake of 5 million (which is less than we are possibly* pissing away on Nani this season) would be a joke.

*I say possibly as there was talk of some quotes on twitter from a Sporting exec or something like that, saying Nani has taken a pay cut to join Sporting - so while we may be paying 100% of the wages he is getting, he might not be getting the same wages he was on at United.

shadowcomplex

It's accepted around here that we need 3 signings to compete for the league but how many do we need compete with the very best in Europe , I think scholes is right in that regard . At least 5

v3ttel

I don't disagree with your overall point, but the way you've built the argument looks weak.

M!Ck^ wrote: »

A good question I was asked today.

Name 2 players in the current utd squad who have increased in value over the last five years excluding Ronaldo

Your original point was that that hardly anyone in the squad has increased in value (as above)

It was pointed out that De Gea & Januzaj (fulfilling the requirement of 2) and debatable a few others have.

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Bottom line; There is hardly any player in the whole of the squad other than Januzaj & De Gea who have increased considerably in value.

It was pointed out that De Gea, Januzaj (fulfilling the requirement of 2) and debatable a few others have increased

Now your bottom line has completely changed and reads as follows: 2 players have increased. Considerably. But hardly any others. (Plus, considerably is vague as hell and wasn't part of the original point).

KH25

Id hate to see Chicho go

I know he's behind Rooney and RVP, and probably Welbeck but he's such a likeable player and he scored some brilliant important goals for us over the years. He needs to be getting consistent game time though.

shadowcomplex

Are the 99 and 08 teams better than Chelsea and cities currents sides ?

Spazdarn

That whole argument is retarded anyway. Any product of the academy however **** has increased in value over the last five years due to game time in the premiership. The much derided Tom Cleverley had a value of around 8 million touted when there was rumours of interest to Everton... considering he was either groomed at the club or bought from a local club at a nominal fee, he has obviously went up in value.

kstand

This Di Maria thing is turning into another Vidal/Fabregas/Kroos saga.
If we end up with utter crap like say Alex Song, then there should be a petition signed and handed into the club to call on the club to hand Woodward over to ISIS.

Spazdarn

KH25 wrote: »

Id hate to see Chicho go

I know he's behind Rooney and RVP, and probably Welbeck but he's such a likeable player and he scored some brilliant important goals for us over the years. He needs to be getting consistent game time though.

I'd rather get rid of Wellbeck, he's an English international so we'd get decent money for him... he does good work but a striker that can't score goals... we don't need

redbaron_99

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Are the 99 and 08 teams better than Chelsea and cities currents sides ?

Yes, far superior to the current City and Chelsea teams IMO.

KH25

ToiletFusion wrote: »

I'd rather get rid of Wellbeck, he's an English international so we'd get decent money for him... he does good work but a striker that can't score goals... we don't need

I agree there. Can't score a goal to save his life. Chicho is a goal machine. Problem is his build up play. Welbeck is better in that respect.

merlinsmerryman

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Are the 99 and 08 teams better than Chelsea and cities currents sides ?

Both teams very special. Won multiple trophies and played some fantastic football. HOw can you measure against current Chelsea/City sides? Have they won multiple titles? Dominated for sustained period?

I'd obviously be biased but would regard both United teams higher than the others. The 99 one in particular had perfect balance to it and an exceptionally strong spine to it.

Spazdarn

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Yes, far superior to the current City and Chelsea teams IMO.

I wouldn't say far superior.

Just briefly touching on areas of the field.

99 had Cole, Yorke, Solskjaer and Sheringham as strikers.
City have Aguero, Dzeko, Jovetic and Negredo

While Cole and Yorke were unreal together, only Aguero would I consider to be truly world class.

99 had Beckham, Scholes, Keane, Giggs
City have Silva, Yaya, Fernandinho and Nasri

United definitely pip them here in my opinion but City still have an excellent team to counter it.


I could go on, but it's not a straight white wash anyway

bangkok

KH25 wrote: »

I agree there. Can't score a goal to save his life. Chicho is a goal machine. Problem is his build up play. Welbeck is better in that respect.

welbeck hasn't really played striker at all in the last 2 years and for the 6 games last year he did get a run up front he scored 6 goals. And chico is not a goal machine either, van nistelrooy was, Ronaldo is, chico is not

adox

ToiletFusion wrote: »

That whole argument is retarded anyway. Any product of the academy however **** has increased in value over the last five years due to game time in the premiership. The much derided Tom Cleverley had a value of around 8 million touted when there was rumours of interest to Everton... considering he was either groomed at the club or bought from a local club at a nominal fee, he has obviously went up in value.

And on the flip side, any player that was in their mid to late 20s five years ago will more often than not have devalued in that time.

RayCun

Mata has increased a lot in value in the last five years.
Valencia got him six years ago for a few million.

redbaron_99

I have a feeling we will see a strong and positive reaction from the players on Sunday.
We shouldn't be writing off this season. Get the wheels moving again this weekend!

Telegraph saying that Welbeck has been told he can leave.

bucketybuck

KH25 wrote: »

I agree there. Can't score a goal to save his life. Chicho is a goal machine. Problem is his build up play. Welbeck is better in that respect.

We need to be realistic about Hernandez, he isn't going to force a regular spot in the team and so he should be sold while he is still a saleable asset. We have more than enough striking options without him, and as it stands he is sitting on the bench running down his contract.

If United had made it clear he was available this summer you cannot tell me there would not have been clubs interested. Its been mentioned a few times that United don't get value when moving players on and Chico is another example of this, at one point we could have gotten £20m+ for what was a 3rd choice striker, the call should have been made then. Instead his value just falls year on year.

UnitedIrishman

Benatia left out of Roma squad for tomorrows game and some places were reporting that Bayern had pulled out of the deal so we would probably have a clear run at him if we want him.

MagicIRL

He was linked to United, and then Bayern got some injury and then he was suddenly linked with them? Have I got it right?

DM_7

Hernandez

2010/11
Starts 27, sub in 18, goals 20

2011/12
Starts 22, sub in 14, goals 12

2012/13
Starts 22, sub in 14, goals 18

2013/14
Starts 12, sub in 23, goals 9.

He has a very good goal record. No surprise he has not developed his game that much without consistently playing. Another player who needs a move to play as a first choice.

Welbeck and Wilson could potentially replace those goals.

merlinsmerryman

MagicIRL wrote: »

He was linked to United, and then Bayern got some injury and then he was suddenly linked with them? Have I got it right?

Yup Martinez did his knee in AFAIK.

TheTownie

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Benatia left out of Roma squad for tomorrows game and some places were reporting that Bayern had pulled out of the deal so we would probably have a clear run at him if we want him.

The 'Bayern have pulled out' stories are from a couple days ago AFAIK. Sky Italy reported yesterday that Bayern had increased their offer to €30M which is close to what Roma want so Bayern may or may not be still in for him.

Whether Utd want him is another question...

KH25

bucketybuck wrote: »

We need to be realistic about Hernandez, he isn't going to force a regular spot in the team and so he should be sold while he is still a saleable asset. We have more than enough striking options without him, and as it stands he is sitting on the bench running down his contract.

If United had made it clear he was available this summer you cannot tell me there would not have been clubs interested. Its been mentioned a few times that United don't get value when moving players on and Chico is another example of this, at one point we could have gotten £20m+ for what was a 3rd choice striker, the call should have been made then. Instead his value just falls year on year.

I am being realistic. For himself he should go. It doesn't mean I'd be happy about it

homerjay2005

Deleted User wrote: »

Telegraph saying that Welbeck has been told he can leave.

as much as i am not really a fan of his, again that makes no sense - we wont have any players left if thats the case. it cant be good for squad moral either. likewise, when our inevitable injury crisis sets in, id rather Welbeck up top as opposed to having to rely on Will keane for example.

for example, Nani cant have been a good influence around the dressing room last sunday if he knew he'd be leaving 3 days later. same for Fellaini (prior to injury) and Ando, with Hernandez not exactly secure either.

i wish all this s*it was sorted during the summer. eitherway, i doutb this is true unless Wilson is going to be #3 striker.

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

OK let's say it's debateable about Rooney, so apologies my post above came in late.

My main point being when compared to the top 6 in relation to resale it's not good news at all. And this is an clear indication of the obvious regression in the squad.

It's a tortured indication of nothing in particular. If you want to fret about the quality of the squad there are much clearer ways of doing it.

The_Kew_Tour

I have my CV and Cover Note at ready for Ed`s job if he does not deliver.

Dont make me do it Ed old buddy.