Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Bacchus

v3ttel wrote: »

Again, this is a very, very lazy opinion and ill-informed opinion.

£120.6 million spent in the last 12 months (Fellaini, Mata, Herrera, Shaw)

£166 million spent in the last 24 months - ie: 2 years of transfer windows (Kagawa, Van Persie, Zaha).

For simplicity, that's not including the £5 million add-on in the Kagawa deal, or the £5 million add on in the Zaha deal. I don't have the add on figure for Shaw to hand which is the main reason I decided not to add all of them to the total. You can be sure it's close to £180m all told.

You may not agree with where and how the money was spent, but please tell me, how exactly that constitutes not being "willing to cough up the cash"? How much should they be spending? £400m?

Thanks for the info, as I said, I'm "looking in" at ManU, I'm not a fan, I don't know their ins and outs intimately. Looks like it's how they are spending it that is the problem. Do you think the ManU squad is strong enough to compete for the top 4?

kryogen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Fletcher was awful, as to how he played 90 minutes ill never know. taking off Herrera (even though i thought he wasnt great) was strange.

what was also strange was the defensive set up in the second half in the 4-4-2. Jones playing out of position (he is horrible at RB), Young playing out of position at left back and both were horribly exposed then for the goal. surely it would have made more sense and better balance to go with.

Young

---

Jones

---

Smalling

---

Blackett

starting Lingard was a poor one also - fair enough we have injuries but i dont know what he saw of him that made him come to the decision that he deserved to start. it was a sub wasted as such and we had no more left to offer in the last 15 minutes then.

unless RVP is injured, surely it made sense to have him on the bench as an option for 10-15 minutes if needed? he is unfit we hear, but surely theres a few minutes in him.

if Moyes had done what LVG did on saturday, he'd have been crucified.

and before people jump on me saying "its only first game" and "lVG knows best" and" your talking nonsense, what the f*ck do you know" these are very simple, straightforward aspects of the game that were blatantly obvious during the game - even one of those things done differently could have changed the result.

Fletch was poor and I'd have taken him off, but there is a school of thought to easing Herrera in to the Premier League

I agree that the back four of Youn-Smalling-Jones-Blackett would have been better balance wise

To say Lingard was a waste of a sub is ridiculous though, how are you supposed to plan for an injury?

If RVP is not fit why risk him? LVG would be crucified if he brought Robin on, only to see him limp off

Moyes would never have done what LVG did Saturday, that ind of creativity isnt in his nature, something I think we will be better off for this season

redbaron_99

Looks like the Fellaini is gone to Napoli on loan. Not sure what way to feel about it.

MagicMarker

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Looks like the Fellaini is gone to Napoli on loan. Not sure what way to feel about it.

Well if we don't get someone in I will feel very, very angry.

Adamocovic

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Looks like the Fellaini is gone to Napoli on loan. Not sure what way to feel about it.

I'm not a fan of loaning a player you've spent big money on. Would rather see him stay with us or sold if he's not part of VG plans...saying that I doubt we would even get back half of what we paid for him now.

Julez

FutureGuy wrote: »

Rooney's passing was awful at times.

Yeah, he messed up at least two or three simple passes when we were in strong counter attack positions.

bucketybuck

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Looks like the Fellaini is gone to Napoli on loan. Not sure what way to feel about it.

I've criticized him plenty but I would rather have Felliani playing than Fletcher, Carrick or Cleverley. At least Felliani still has the possiblity of improvement whereas I think the others are a busted flush.

Leroy42

MagicMarker wrote: »

Well if we don't get someone in I will feel very, very angry.

Why would you be angry, he is not, and never will be Man U quality?

Ship him out, the idea of holding on to dross is what has us in the shape we are in.

He will be as much use to us on loan as he would be on the pitch

homerjay2005

this should surprise a few of ye -

our net spend in the last 4 years - £204,650,000
Manchester citys net spend last 4 years - £193,550,000
Chelsea - £199,059,000
Liverpool - £106,950,000
Arsenal - £65,435,000

its not our spending that the problem, its how or who we are spending it on.

We have fallen behind in the last 4 years by signing second rate players, compared to our rivals but yet are outspending them all. our wages were £180million last year so what on earth is going on?

something is really really wrong with how we are running the club and our ability to attract top players is very very poor.

FutureGuy

MagicMarker wrote: »

Well if we don't get someone in I will feel very, very angry.

I cannot in any way, shape or form believe that United are so incompetent that they weill let Fellaini go on loan without signing a (far) superior midfielder. I just can't

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

I've criticized him plenty but I would rather have Felliani playing than Fletcher, Carrick or Cleverley. At least Felliani still has the possiblity of improvement whereas I think the others are a busted flush.

fellaini over carrick?! your having a laugh

Backstreet Moyes

Fellaini against Valencia and Swansea i thought done very well. People say he is slow on the ball and his passing is poor but he looked very comfortable quickly moving the ball around in both games. People say Fletcher was great in pre season fair enough. But against Valencia and in a proper test on Saturday he was hopeless. Selling Fellaini would be just madness not just because we are short enough but because he offers more than Cleverley, Fletcher, Anderson and Carrick is injured.

Lord TSC

I genuinely don't believe we would let Fel go unless there was a new CM on the very, very brink of signing....

twam2008

It's too early to write Fellaini off, I think he's ****e, but we'd get nothing for him, as I've said before, he has stated that he'd like a chance in defence, why not? He has the right attributes for it. With regards to money, I don't think that is the problem, I do think we should stop low balling for players and put in proper bids, but the bigger problem is our transfer system. Woodward is a fantastic employee, there's no doubt about that, he has brought in huge amounts of revenue for the club, but he's not cut out for transfers, we should hire someone specifically for that job who understands the complexities involved. We also have to off load a lot of players, but their wages are too high and not many clubs would want them for that reason.

Adamcp898

Where are people getting this Fellaini news?

Thought he was going to be our lump it up plan b for the year tbh.

kippy

v3ttel wrote: »

Again, this is a very, very lazy opinion and ill-informed opinion.

£120.6 million spent in the last 12 months (Fellaini, Mata, Herrera, Shaw)

£166 million spent in the last 24 months - ie: 2 years of transfer windows (Kagawa, Van Persie, Zaha).

For simplicity, that's not including the £5 million add-on in the Kagawa deal, or the £5 million add on in the Zaha deal. I don't have the add on figure for Shaw to hand which is the main reason I decided not to add all of them to the total. You can be sure it's close to £180m all told.

You may not agree with where and how the money was spent, but please tell me, how exactly that constitutes not being "willing to cough up the cash"? How much should they be spending? £400m?

Potentially, yeah.
When you look at what the rivals have spent (gross) that might make sense.
City have spent roughly 680 odd million since 08/09.
Chelsea roughly 500 million in the same time period
United roughly 320 in the same period.
Those figures don't lie right now based on what you see on the pitch in front of you.
I understand cost does not represent quality when it comes to players but there's a correlation there.

United have always, to an extent relied on its academy or young players to come though. This would have always helped in keeping costs down on player acquisitions however this hasn't been so evident in the past number of years. Instead they have bought young "promising" talent and unfortunately a lot of that is English and isn't working out.

So yeah, United are well behind their rivals in the buying stakes and that history is now catching up with them.

redbaron_99

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Where are people getting this Fellaini news?

Thought he was going to be our lump it up plan b for the year tbh.

Not official, but it's come from a couple of different sources this morning.

Napoli have agreed a deal with Manchester United to take midfielder Marouane Fellaini on loan for the season. (Source: Gazzetta dello Sport)

It would only make sense if there's a central midfielder imminent. Otherwise it's lunacy. There's so much work needed before the window closes... I'm officially worried.

The_Kew_Tour

After weekend it should be Fletcher and not Fellaini.

Backstreet Moyes

If Fellaini goes i will lose it it makes no sense. Look at the options we have and people want to lose a midfielder.

Fletcher can't be depended on.
Carrick is injured.
Anderson is as good as gone.
Cleverley not good enough.
Herrera is in his first season.

Corvo

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

After weekend it should be Fletcher and not Fellaini.

He was absolute dross, if he starts further games - be it alongside Arturo Vidal or not, we are in real trouble.

POSSY

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Not official, but it's come from a couple of different sources this morning.

Napoli have agreed a deal with Manchester United to take midfielder Marouane Fellaini on loan for the season. (Source: Gazzetta dello Sport)

It would only make sense if there's a central midfielder imminent. Otherwise it's lunacy. There's so much work needed before the window closes... I'm officially worried.

I'm gonna go with more lunacy! Seriously this transfer window has once again been a joke.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

fellaini over carrick?! your having a laugh

No, I don't have a sense of humor.

homerjay2005

kippy wrote: »

So yeah, United are well behind their rivals in the buying stakes and that history is now catching up with them.

the figures above that i posted suggest differently. our net outlay right now is the biggest in the PL over the last 4 years, which is when most of the current squads in the PL have put together and also, at the same time it coincides with our decline.

City, Chelsea are getting in top class players, we are getting average players, but spending more money.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

No, I don't have a sense of humor.

fellaini is no where near good enough to play for man utd

homerjay2005

bangkok wrote: »

fellaini is no where near good enough to play for man utd

neither are anderson, cleverly, fletcher - they've had their chance, Fellaini deserves his.

sadly it looks like our fans have played their part and forced him out.

FutureGuy

United have been buying and selling as much as other clubs, it's just that they haven't been doing it well.

Quandary

bangkok wrote: »

fellaini is no where near good enough to play for man utd

IMO he is better than all our midfielders bar Carrick and
Herrera. Moving him on before buying another midfielder while Carrick is still injured would be very very stupid.

redbaron_99

Cleverly, Anderson and Fletcher aren't good enough. They havent been good enough for quite some time. Carrick is currently injured and is 33 -so can we really be sure about him from now on?

I'd much rather have Pearson in ahead of Clevs, Ando or Fletch. At least the young lad has a bit of fight and pace in him.

MagicIRL

FutureGuy wrote: »

United have been buying and selling as much as other clubs, it's just that they haven't been doing it well.

This.

People always throw around the City and Chelsea spending as if it's some sort of crutch against our bad performances. The fact is they're buying the right players for their system while we're seemingly trying to get the best deal possible for our company.

Hococop

FutureGuy wrote: »

United have been buying and selling as much as other clubs, it's just that they haven't been doing it well.

Agreed if we loaned out Hernandez like lukaku and he had a similar season to lukaku guarantee we would only sell him for £17 million (I know there is an age difference between them but even if they were the same age we would still get less than what Chelsea got for him)

Nalz

What are peoples realistic thoughts on what (a) will happen and (b) what they'd like to happen before the transfer window closes.

(a) I think
* Fellaini, Powell, Amos and Anderson will go out on loan
* Lindergaard might possibly leave
* Nani could leave for the right price
* We'll sign a CB - Rojo or the likes
* We'll sign an average workhorse \ utility player

(b) What I wish
* Cleverley sold for 7m +
* Fellaini to get some form and kept as a squad player
* Hernandez sold for 15/20m + if it means fueling cash for other buys
* Powell, Lingard and James all to go on loan again and do really well
* Wilson to step up as 4th choice striker and given a chance
* Anderson to be sold, released whatever
* A CB if not 2, a CM and LB cover to be signed
* Rooney and RVP to stay fit

ericzeking

I thought Fellaini did well when he came on on Saturday.... I'd much prefer him to Fletcher, sit there in the Carrick position and be the destroyer and give it simple to Herrera and mata. He made some lovely interceptions on Saturday.

MagicIRL

MagicIRL wrote: »

This.

People always throw around the City and Chelsea spending as if it's some sort of crutch against our bad performances. The fact is they're buying the right players for their system while we're seemingly trying to get the best deal possible for our company.

Further to this,

It's well established how bad our squad is and yet we've let both Fabregas and Kroos sign for different clubs. I don't work for United, so I don't know if we even bid for either player, but the idea that both these players could walk in to our midfield and instantly improve it, and did not sign for United is saddening. Both City and United are literally across the road from one another and yet only one side seems to be bringing in talent.

redbaron_99

Trilla wrote: »

What are peoples realistic thoughts on what (a) will happen and (b) what they'd like to happen before the transfer window closes.

(a) I think
* Fellaini, Powell, Amos and Anderson will go out on loan
* Lindergaard might possibly leave
* Nani could leave for the right price
* We'll sign a CB - Rojo or the likes
* We'll sign an average workhorse \ utility player

(a) i think
- Fellaini and Anderson will go out on loan.
- We will sign Rojo later this week
- Daley Blind on deadline day for £20M +

(b) I want
it's too depressing to type...

Blatter

The Fellaini to Napoli claims are coming from Italy. Obviously Napoli are in for him but I wouldn't be quick to believe Italian reports that a deal is agreed. Especially from the Gazetta.

FutureGuy

MagicIRL wrote: »

This.

People always throw around the City and Chelsea spending as if it's some sort of crutch against our bad performances. The fact is they're buying the right players for their system while we're seemingly trying to get the best deal possible for our company.

Having said that, they are working on a different financial system than we are (i.e esentially limitless funds).

I still sometimes laugh when I think about how this is allowed in football.

homerjay2005

MagicIRL wrote: »

Both City and United are literally across the road from one another and yet only one side seems to be bringing in talent.

here you go..this fellow could be the reason.



in fairness to Woodward, he is spending the money, he just cannot (as yet) seal any big deals or sign any of our top targets.

MagicIRL

FutureGuy wrote: »

Having said that, they are working on a different financial system than we are (i.e esentially limitless funds).

I still sometimes laugh when I think about how this is allowed in football.

This is true, but having signed the largest shirt deal in world football, amoungst a thousand and one other deals, you would have to assume United could match or even surpass quite a lot of deals being put through by other clubs.

twam2008

The same problems were there before Woodward as well in fairness. We need to rethink the whole transfer system at the club.

homerjay2005

twam2008 wrote: »

The same problems were there before Woodward as well in fairness. We need to rethink the whole transfer system at the club.

true, but they are now much worse - we are spending big money, but our squad and more to the point first 11 is getting worse

Woodward has more power behind him than 18 of the 20 clubs in the PL and perhaps the most resources available to him than any CE (outside of chelsea and city in the past) in PL history.

Whatsisname

Thank god people are finally seeing that Fletcher can't do a job in midfield anymore, shadow of a player he once was, amazing he has come back from such a horrible illness but he's just physically not able to do the job he once did anymore. The fact that he's been giving the vice captaincy is worrying if it means he's likely to be a regular starter. We're in alot more trouble if he is.

As said a few times already, I'd rather see him Fellaini over him.

redbaron_99

defence in 2008 - VDS, Neville, Vidic, Rio, Evra,
defence on saturday - DeGea, Young, Smalling, Jones, Blackett, Lingaard.

Midefield in 2008 - Carrick, Scholes, Hargreaves
Midfield on saturday - Herrera, Fletcher

Attack in 2008 - Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo
Attack on saturday - chico, rooney, mata

A long and steady rot has led to this debacle.

sky88

Was at the match on saturday thought it was a poor performance from the team in general but i thought felani did well and nani did well untill he was put on the right then it seemed to go weong for him. Hernandez was very poor as well i just cant see place for him in the team at all

Pro. F

redbaron_99 wrote: »

defence in 2008 - VDS, Neville, Vidic, Rio, Evra,
defence on saturday - DeGea, Young, Smalling, Jones, Blackett, Lingaard.

Midefield in 2008 - Carrick, Scholes, Hargreaves
Midfield on saturday - Herrera, Fletcher

Attack in 2008 - Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo
Attack on saturday - chico, rooney, mata

A long and steady rot has led to this debacle.

This is so stupid. You are comparing the first team options from 2008 to the squad options that we used on Saturday. Do you not remember squad players being used in 2008?

I know the current team has flaws that need to be addressed, but that comparison you've done is just a pointless misrepresentation of the true situation.

froog

I get the feeling united could play a decent 4 4 2 with the players they have (ignoring injuries);

rooney rvp

mata fellaini Herrera januzaj

shaw jones evans Valencia


fellaini stays back and wins ball, Herrera pings passes around

Will I Amnt

redbaron_99 wrote: »

defence in 2008 - VDS, Neville, Vidic, Rio, Evra,
defence on saturday - DeGea, Young, Smalling, Jones, Blackett, Lingaard.

Midefield in 2008 - Carrick, Scholes, Hargreaves
Midfield on saturday - Herrera, Fletcher

Attack in 2008 - Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo
Attack on saturday - chico, rooney, mata

A long and steady rot has led to this debacle.

While I get your point, it would be fairer to put up what you think the best defence, midfield and attack is from the whole squad. You did that for the 2008 team, why not the current team?

Edit: What ProF said.

Adamocovic

froog wrote: »

I get the feeling united could play a decent 4 4 2 with the players they have (ignoring injuries);

rooney rvp

mata fellaini Herrera januzaj

shaw jones evans Valencia


fellaini stays back and wins ball, Herrera pings passes around

Only problem I see is Mata...can't see him playing down the wing, doesn't really have the pace and strength, great behind the two forwards because of his vision and skill but anywhere else I can't see him succeeding personally.

redbaron_99

Will I Amnt wrote: »

While I get your point, it would be fairer to put up what you think the best defence, midfield and attack is from the whole squad. You did that for the 2008 team, why not the current team?

Edit: What ProF said.

ok. how about this

defence in 2008 - VDS, Neville, Vidic, Rio, Evra,
defence in 2014- DeGea, Young, Smalling, Jones, Evans (when fit), Shaw.

Midefield in 2008 - Carrick, Scholes, Hargreaves
Midfield 2014 - Herrera, Carrick (when fit - also 33 now)

Attack in 2008 - Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo
Attack 2014 - rvp (when fit), rooney, mata

A long and steady rot has led to this debacle.

titan18

There was a time when we were seeing Alan Smith, David Bellion, Liam Miller, Djemba-Djemba and Kleberson line out for the side. I much prefer the squad depth now

RobbingBandit

Pictures on Daily Mail site of Jesse Lingard leaving hospital on crutches with a heavily bandaged knee in a brace.