Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

The Big Easy

DM-ICE wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/managers/louis-van-gaal/11052364/Louis-van-Gaal-It-has-been-a-very-difficult-start-at-Manchester-United-but-I-will-deliver.html

Good piece punchily written. Does Gary write all his own articles I wonder?

twam2008

GSPfan wrote: »

Have to say I am loving the honesty and insight Neville and Scholes are bringing to the media world. Carragher is good but he is so biased toward Liverpool still. Neville is by far the best pundit on tv now in my eyes. Even when I dont agree with him.

Always feel I'm biased when I say it, but majority of people I talk to agree, even Liverpool supporters.

kryogen

tupac_healy wrote: »

What's an Alan Sheerer?

A figure of hate personally, not quite as loathsome as an Alan Shearer, but close enough

The_Kew_Tour

kryogen wrote: »

If you have faith in LVG you would trust him surely to get the first team squad into shape and of the quality required to meet the goals of himself and the fans?

Since he has taken the job he has been pretty clear that this is not going to be an over night job

getting the right quality depends on more then just LVG wanting a player. if only it was that simple.

a player might not want come with no guarantee of CL football for example.

we had a long summer to sort out few problems. nothing done. this leads to things getting harder.

RobbingBandit

Hijack Balotelli move, Yay or Nay?

kryogen

J. Marston wrote: »

Exactly this. There's no question that Van Gaal is a great coach but he's not going to turn water into wine. As good as he is, with the squad being so full of crap, he's going to struggle.

In the first couple of months? In the first season? In the first two season? In his entire career at the club?

I dunno, I trust him to bring the club in the right direction, his CV grants him that much at least. Its not like he will not make any more signings or the first team squad won't change, he has actually stated that the squad he leaves will be a lot more balanced then it is now. There will be changes, but it is not going to happen overnight. Instilling his system, his philosophy is obviously the first thing he plans on doing, then he will bring in additional players and sell players.

I may not agree with everything he does, I didn't agree with everything Fergie did, but I never doubted that Fergie knew what he was doing, had a plan in mind and was far better qualified then me to decide the course he wanted the club to take. In the same vein LVG has left every club he has been at stronger then when he arrived, I see no reason to think he will be a different coach somehow at United.

Son Of A Vidic

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Really? I thought he came through the season after.

He made his first team debut in March 91 and that was the Cup Final in May of that year. I think he only made 2-3 appearances that year. But you're right, the 91-92 season is when he really got proper started.

Headshot

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Hijack Balotelli move, Yay or Nay?

lol

Liverpool are more than welcomed to him

hufpc8w3adnk65

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Hijack Balotelli move, Yay or Nay?

No way.. Hes a nutter!! In 2 years Liverpool will be glad too see the back ofhim!!

Lucas Hood

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Hijack Balotelli move, Yay or Nay?

Nay. We've already too many strikers.

Adamocovic

J. Marston wrote: »

Exactly this. There's no question that Van Gaal is a great coach but he's not going to turn water into wine. As good as he is, with the squad being so full of crap, he's going to struggle.

I'm playing the same tune but when I see people using that argument it kind of annoys me.

Yes I am aware we have lost the likes of Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Giggs and Scholes but VG has inherited a team that has won the league before, and not so long ago. Yes they are experiencing a tough time and work needs to be done but this idea of him getting a squad that is "crap" I don't buy into at all.

You'd swear he took over a team that has been near relegation for the last 10 seasons the way some people talk about it.

I still think we need to bring in 2-3 key players to pose a real threat but even saying that the team as it stands isn't as awful as people make it out to be. It's going through a rough patch and hopefully VG can fix this.

As much as people like to say our team is absolutely terrible surely the players there are capable of getting fourth place if they can manage some form and stability under VG. Then look at adding 2-3 key players and they are back to title contenders.

RobbingBandit

Good, good we are all sane then, just annoying to think they have just got a player of his calibre for £16m yet we are thinking of paying over 3 times as much for players, someone should teach the Man Utd transfer gurus how to lowball.

kryogen

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Good, good we are all sane then, just annoying to think they have just got a player of his calibre for £16m yet we are thinking of paying over 3 times as much for players, someone should teach the Man Utd transfer gurus how to lowball.

Adam Lallana
Lazar Markovic
Dejan Lovren
Divock Origi

75million pounds.

Not exactly great value there is there?

Particularly the first two!

Hococop

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Good, good we are all sane then, just annoying to think they have just got a player of his calibre for £16m yet we are thinking of paying over 3 times as much for players, someone should teach the Man Utd transfer gurus how to lowball.

Unfortunately everyone knows we need players and ed's comments of we have lots of cash does not give us good barganing ground

RobbingBandit

Didn't mention them, any of them, seeing as Balotelli and Rojo have both cost £16m on paper that would be an appropriate comparison to make given that both have a rep for being nut cases too I suppose.

kryogen

Hococop wrote: »

Unfortunately everyone knows we need players and ed's comments of we have lots of cash does not give us good barganing ground

Ed's comments, though irritating to United fans are completely irrelevant. It is not like any club in world football thinks we don't have a pot to piss in. Our finances are public, people know how much money we have.

There is a huge difference in the acquiring of the players that will push United on to the next level and that of the ones that would push a team like Liverpool/Spurs etc on.

uncleoswald

Great interview by Neville, he continues to impress as a pundit/journalist. I think it's safe to say even if Scholes was as knowledgeable as Neville he'd never be able to put those thoughts across as well as him.

I love the idea of Van Gaal actually COACHING the team to be better and not just going out and spending our way back to the top. It will be so much more satisfying once it happens and I'm more then happy to wait a few years to see it. That's why it would be sad if reports about Welbeck are true, I'd love for Van Gaal to be able to get the best out of him.

Not to say we don't desperately need a couple of players, a midfielder and some more pace up front would be a nice start. But for example if it is Strootman that Van Gaal wants then lets wait till we can get him. If we did go after the likes of Hummels, Reus, Muller or Vidal it is not necessarily a sign of incompetence that we didn't get them. Throwing more and more ludicrous sums of money at them until they want to join us won't be good for the squad in the long run.

twam2008

Adamocovic wrote: »

I'm playing the same tune but when I see people using that argument it kind of annoys me.

Yes I am aware we have lost the likes of Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Giggs and Scholes but VG has inherited a team that has won the league before, and not so long ago. Yes they are experiencing a tough time and work needs to be done but this idea of him getting a squad that is "crap" I don't buy into at all.

You'd swear he took over a team that has been near relegation for the last 10 seasons the way some people talk about it.

I still think we need to bring in 2-3 key players to pose a real threat but even saying that the team as it stands isn't as awful as people make it out to be. It's going through a rough patch and hopefully VG can fix this.

As much as people like to say our team is absolutely terrible surely the players there are capable of getting fourth place if they can manage some form and stability under VG. Then look at adding 2-3 key players and they are back to title contenders.

The main problem I have with that argument is that the team that won the league before finished 7th last season and has since lost a lot of key players, as it stands we will struggle to finish fourth, there is no denying that, I believe VG will sort things out, but it will involve a lot of changes. It isn't going to happen with the current squad.

kryogen

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Didn't mention them, any of them, seeing as Balotelli and Rojo have both cost £16m on paper that would be an appropriate comparison to make given that both have a rep for being nut cases too I suppose.

You mentioned Liverpool acquiring players on what you feel as good prices and contrasted that to what kind of prices United are in the papers as possibly bidding. Seemed apparent you were making a statement about Liverpool being able to get better value in the market then United. The players listed are a pretty valid counter to that opinion.

How does comparing the fee for a defender and a striker become any more valid a comparison?

A defender the selling club didnt want to sell at that and a striker that the selling club have been offering to every Tom Dick and Harry in Europe?

Rayne Wooney

I wouldn't be writing off Balotelli especially playing in that great Liverpool system, I think he will score more than 15 in the league for them

Adamocovic

twam2008 wrote: »

The main problem I have with that argument is that the team that won the league before finished 7th last season and has since lost a lot of key players, as it stands we will struggle to finish fourth, there is no denying that, I believe VG will sort things out, but it will involve a lot of changes. It isn't going to happen with the current squad.

Valid point. Of course it will require a lot of changes in terms of tactics and mentality. Hopefully VG can manage to do that. Just seems to me that some United players getting undeserved criticism and labeled as useless.

I remember when we bet Arsenal 8-2 and half the lads I knew still would criticise the likes of Anderson, Jones, Smalling, Welbeck, Cleverley, Young (all players who started) of not being good enough. Then two minutes later they'd be gloating to Arsenal fans about the win, that those players they felt weren't good enough got.

I think it seems with the reputation around United fans can be overly critical at times. Even when things are going good. It no doubt can be tough for the players.

Makes it such a good club at the same time because so many different fans have different opinions on the team.

Let's just hope this weekend the lads can go out and put 3 points on the board and get this campaign rolling.

RobbingBandit

Saying/viewing this team or even last seasons as the team that won the league is like viewing the Spanish team of this summers World Cup as the team that won both the World and European Championships back to back.

kryogen

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I wouldn't be writing off Balotelli especially playing in that great Liverpool system, I think he will score more than 15 in the league for them

Could do, could upset the apple cart and end up pissing people like Sturridge off, Sturridge has an ego and will surely have felt now Suarez has sailed off into the sunset that it was his time to be the main man, the star striker, the headline maker, he had earned that chance in fairness. Great Liverpool system? You mean high tempo and high pressing? Defending from the front? Not exactly Mario's bread and butter tbh

Strange transfer imo, not wanting to keep talking about it as its not the place, just think its a bit like Rodgers wanting to get a bigger name in to replace Suarez with a higher profile as much as anything else. Maybe they couldnt say no at the price, I suppose given the options they have it would have been tough to turn them down, Arsenal are not exactly brimming with striking talent but still found a way to say no though

It could be a stroke of genius of course, but I don't think so.

RobbingBandit

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Good, good we are all sane then, just annoying to think they have just got a player of his calibre for £16m yet we are thinking of paying over 3 times as much for players, someone should teach the Man Utd transfer gurus how to lowball.

kryogen wrote: »

You mentioned Liverpool acquiring players on what you feel as good prices and contrasted that to what kind of prices United are in the papers as possibly bidding. Seemed apparent you were making a statement about Liverpool being able to get better value in the market then United. The players listed are a pretty valid counter to that opinion.

How does comparing the fee for a defender and a striker become any more valid a comparison?

A defender the selling club didnt want to sell at that and a striker that the selling club have been offering to every Tom Dick and Harry in Europe?

I said a player as you can see in the highlighted post above, a player, not players. :cool:

Adamocovic

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Saying/viewing this team or even last seasons as the team that won the league is like viewing the Spanish team of this summers World Cup as the team that won both the World and European Championships back to back.

Well would you say that Spanish team had useless players? Or under performed and had a poor tournament?

Either way it doesn't really matter, everyone already has their minds made up about if the players are good enough or not. Let's just hope the players have a good season.

twam2008

Adamocovic wrote: »

Well would you say that Spanish team was useless? Or under performed and had a poor tournament?

Either way it doesn't really matter, everyone already has their minds made up about if the players are good enough or not. Let's just hope the players have a good season.

A bit of a reality check is needed though, this team is nowhere near winning the league, I think most would be happy to finish fourth this season, to compare it to a side that previously won the league has no bearing.

J. Marston

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Hijack Balotelli move, Yay or Nay?

No way.

I don't understand why they're buying him really. I saw a stat the other day where Sturridge has outscored Torres and Suarez in their first 50 games for Liverpool.

Squad depth maybe but if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

5starpool

kryogen wrote: »

Adam Lallana
Lazar Markovic
Dejan Lovren
Divock Origi

75million pounds.

Not exactly great value there is there?

Particularly the first two!

Bit early to come to that conclusion isn't it? I could point to lots of other players that they are likely to be better value than, and you could point to ones they are likely to be worse value that, but the above have played a combined total of 1 competitive game for Liverpool so far, so value to Liverpool relative to what has been paid can't exactly be established yet can it?

kryogen

RobbingBandit wrote: »

I said a player as you can see in the highlighted post above, a player, not players. :cool:

RobbingBandit wrote:

Good, good we are all sane then, just annoying to think they have just got a player of his calibre for £16m yet we are thinking of paying over 3 times as much for players, someone should teach the Man Utd transfer gurus how to lowball.

As you can also see by the bolded part you mention players, meaning your comment is not purely exclusive to the Balotelli deal, then go on to say someone should teach the Man Utd guys how to lowball. It seems to be a comment on transfer policy rather then a particular transfer.

If you were just referring to this one transfer that Liverpool are involved in and not a general comment on how they have gone about their business this year it seems a bit misplaced and silly when you take the actual deal itself into context. If you are just talking about the Balotelli deal then Liverpool have not lowballed, they have been offered a player Milan want rid of at a cut price deal. No genius transfer guru stuff going on there.

If you were talking about how Liverpool have dealt with transfers this year the sentence would make sense, though be inaccurate imho.

I do get a chuckle from the desire for Utd to lowball, which was one of the stronger criticisms of the club last season, lowballing

RobbingBandit

Adamocovic wrote: »

Well would you say that Spanish team was useless? Or under performed and had a poor tournament?

Either way it doesn't really matter, everyone already has their minds made up about if the players are good enough or not. Let's just hope the players have a good season.

No they were not useless by any means they were overwhelmed by a very good Dutch side in that 5-1 match. Some of their best players and several other countries to boot were suffering from exhaustion, look at Messi, Neymar and Ronaldo, none of them performed on the level expected, same could be said of United last season and last Sunday too.

As I said above repeat successes are few and far between, players get older, injured, sold or just have a poor period of performance it can have a long lasting effect on both the individual and overall team moral.

5starpool

J. Marston wrote: »

No way.

I don't understand why they're buying him really. I saw a stat the other day where Sturridge has outscored Torres and Suarez in their first 50 games for Liverpool.

Squad depth maybe but if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Someone else is needed. I'm not convinced Balotelli is the answer, but Sturridge has a tendency to get injured leaving the only other strikers at the club as Borini and Lambert which is not enough for a club that is aiming to challenge at the top end of the league as well as CL and other commitments.

Balotelli is a risk for sure, but something else is definitely needed.

kryogen

5starpool wrote: »

Bit early to come to that conclusion isn't it? I could point to lots of other players that they are likely to be better value than, and you could point to ones they are likely to be worse value that, but the above have played a combined total of 1 competitive game for Liverpool so far, so value to Liverpool relative to what has been paid can't exactly be established yet can it?

Nope, not definitively, purely talking about on paper value which is what was being discussed I imagine since Balotelli has not played a game for Liverpool and the poster was intimating Liverpool have got a good deal for a player of his calibre. On paper

Can't actually judge the transfer window and the players bought in it for quite some time yet and whether they turned out to be money well spent, a bargain or an overpriced flop

Adamocovic

twam2008 wrote: »

A bit of a reality check is needed though, this team is nowhere near winning the league, I think most would be happy to finish fourth this season, to compare it to a side that previously won the league has no bearing.

I never said we were going to win the league. I've said many times I can't imagine us posing a threat until 2-3 key players are brought in.

What I have said is that this team in my mind is not nearly as terrible as people like to make out. Surely they have the capabilities of getting fourth.

I'm not comparing, I'm pointing out that most of the players we think are awful have won league titles before. Surely that would suggest they aren't as bad as people are saying and that they should be able to, with the right guidance, challenge for a top 4 and get it.

kryogen

5starpool wrote: »

Someone else is needed. I'm not convinced Balotelli is the answer, but Sturridge has a tendency to get injured leaving the only other strikers at the club as Borini and Lambert which is not enough for a club that is aiming to challenge at the top end of the league as well as CL and other commitments.

Balotelli is a risk for sure, but something else is definitely needed.

Pfft, injury concerns? Welcome to the Manchester United thread, where every player gets injured on a regular basis, some simply walking from the dressing room to the pitch!

On a serious note, I understand the concern about Sturridge, but I would have been looking to bring in back up/partner that would compliment him rather then someone like Mario. Could have it completely wrong, they could hit it off, as I said, could be a stroke of genius, just my take on the situation is all.

RobbingBandit

kryogen wrote: »

As you can also see by the bolded part you mention players, meaning your comment is not purely exclusive to the Balotelli deal, then go on to say someone should teach the Man Utd guys how to lowball. It seems to be a comment on transfer policy rather then a particular transfer.

If you were just referring to this one transfer that Liverpool are involved in and not a general comment on how they have gone about their business this year it seems a bit misplaced and silly when you take the actual deal itself into context. If you are just talking about the Balotelli deal then Liverpool have not lowballed, they have been offered a player Milan want rid of at a cut price deal. No genius transfer guru stuff going on there.

If you were talking about how Liverpool have dealt with transfers this year the sentence would make sense, though be inaccurate imho.

I do get a chuckle from the desire for Utd to lowball, which was one of the stronger criticisms of the club last season, lowballing

WE are thinking of paying more than 3 times £16m (£50m for Di Maria) not Liverpool. Hope that is clear now as I am too sleepy now.

Adamocovic

RobbingBandit wrote: »

No they were not useless by any means they were overwhelmed by a very good Dutch side in that 5-1 match. Some of their best players and several other countries to boot were suffering from exhaustion, look at Messi, Neymar and Ronaldo, none of them performed on the level expected, same could be said of United last season and last Sunday too.

As I said above repeat successes are few and far between, players get older, injured, sold or just have a poor period of performance it can have a long lasting effect on both the individual and overall team moral.

Well that's what I'm getting at. I just think people are taking our recent problems as players being awful rather than players not performing to their potential.

Hopefully VG can bring in confidence and structure and we can go back to seeing Old Trafford being a place teams are dreading to go to.

JRant

Adamocovic wrote: »

I'm playing the same tune but when I see people using that argument it kind of annoys me.

Yes I am aware we have lost the likes of Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Giggs and Scholes but VG has inherited a team that has won the league before, and not so long ago. Yes they are experiencing a tough time and work needs to be done but this idea of him getting a squad that is "crap" I don't buy into at all.

You'd swear he took over a team that has been near relegation for the last 10 seasons the way some people talk about it.

I still think we need to bring in 2-3 key players to pose a real threat but even saying that the team as it stands isn't as awful as people make it out to be. It's going through a rough patch and hopefully VG can fix this.

As much as people like to say our team is absolutely terrible surely the players there are capable of getting fourth place if they can manage some form and stability under VG. Then look at adding 2-3 key players and they are back to title contenders.

IMO it's not the team that's terrible, it's the midfield.

If LVG manages 4th place with our current midfield then quite frankly he's a miracle worker.

We needed to invest heavily in the midfield department this summer and that has not happened yet and doesn't look like happening either.

kryogen

RobbingBandit wrote: »

WE are thinking of paying more than 3 times £16m (£50m for Di Maria) not Liverpool. Hope that is clear now as I am too sleepy now.

Yes, we are thinking of paying more then three times that for PLAYERS, that is plural

Don't worry about it we can just forget it, hardly that important.

5starpool

kryogen wrote: »

Pfft, injury concerns? Welcome to the Manchester United thread, where every player gets injured on a regular basis, some simply walking from the dressing room to the pitch!

Ye must have the wrong type of grass installed or something.

Adamocovic

JRant wrote: »

IMO it's not the team that's terrible, it's the midfield.

If LVG manages 4th place with our current midfield then quite frankly he's a miracle worker.

We needed to invest heavily in the midfield department this summer and that has not happened yet and doesn't look like happening either.

Yeah our midfield is very concerning. Hard to imagine us getting whats needed before this window is over though.

Herrera was a much needed inclusion but now he will be out (hopefully only 2 weeks), Fellaini looks set to be out for a good bit, Carrick injured, we are pretty much left with Cleverley and Fletcher. Jones might have to move up to CM.

Worrying alright.

twam2008

Adamocovic wrote: »

I never said we were going to win the league. I've said many times I can't imagine us posing a threat until 2-3 key players are brought in.

What I have said is that this team in my mind is not nearly as terrible as people like to make out. Surely they have the capabilities of getting fourth.

I'm not comparing, I'm pointing out that most of the players we think are awful have won league titles before. Surely that would suggest they aren't as bad as people are saying and that they should be able to, with the right guidance, challenge for a top 4 and get it.

As it stands, I really cannot see us finishing within the top four, I'm not looking to have a go, but using this team won the league winds me up, there is so much work to be done. It's starting to look less likely that there will be significant changes. And signing 3 players is just a wide open get out clause, given our recent history there is no guarantee we will be able to get the necessary players have to judge the squad as it is for the upcoming season.

Hank Scorpio

If Rooney and RVP stay fit I still think there's a decent shot of getting 4th, the squad might be lacking but with those 2 and Mata behind there is real genuine class

v3ttel

Adamocovic wrote: »

I never said we were going to win the league. I've said many times I can't imagine us posing a threat until 2-3 key players are brought in.

What I have said is that this team in my mind is not nearly as terrible as people like to make out. Surely they have the capabilities of getting fourth.

I'm not comparing, I'm pointing out that most of the players we think are awful have won league titles before. Surely that would suggest they aren't as bad as people are saying and that they should be able to, with the right guidance, challenge for a top 4 and get it.

Adamocovic wrote: »

Well that's what I'm getting at. I just think people are taking our recent problems as players being awful rather than players not performing to their potential.

Hopefully VG can bring in confidence and structure and we can go back to seeing Old Trafford being a place teams are dreading to go to.

Adamocovic wrote: »

Yeah our midfield is very concerning. Hard to imagine us getting whats needed before this window is over though.

Herrera was a much needed inclusion but now he will be out (hopefully only 2 weeks), Fellaini looks set to be out for a good bit, Carrick injured, we are pretty much left with Cleverley and Fletcher. Jones might have to move up to CM.

Worrying alright.

+1 on all of this. A very realistic and balanced take on things. A lot more coherent and constructive than the constant whining about everything from our current squad to the way Marcos Rojo's shirt is printed.

At the end of the day, we all want United to win.

Adamocovic

twam2008 wrote: »

As it stands, I really cannot see us finishing within the top four, I'm not looking to have a go, but using this team won the league winds me up, there is so much work to be done. It's starting to look less likely that there will be significant changes. And signing 3 players is just a wide open get out clause, given our recent history there is no guarantee we will be able to get the necessary players have to judge the squad as it is for the upcoming season.

Fair enough, we both have different opinions on the quality of the players. Injuries will make this season even tougher. Hopefully the team can over perform while players our out.

Going to just take it one game at a time though and focus on the weekend. Hopefully a win and I can then show my face at the pub. Was stuck with three Liverpool fans last Saturday, wasn't ideal in the least :P

aligator_am

City should send Balotelli a giant box of fireworks as a "Welcome back to England" gift, with a bit of luck he'll burn down Anfield :P

Adamocovic

I know VG has said that RVP is fit for the weekend, but did he mention anything about Evans, Welbeck and Valencia? I know they all returned to first team training this week, but will they be fit enough for the match?

kryogen

Adamocovic wrote: »

I know VG has said that RVP is fit for the weekend, but did he mention anything about Evans, Welbeck and Valencia? I know they all returned to first team training this week, but will they be fit enough for the match?

Evans only returned today or yesterday he said so won't be available for selection, Valencia is back and I am not sure on Welbeck.

twam2008

Adamocovic

Just found this provisional squad for the match:

Man United: De Gea, Lindegaard, Amos, Rafael, Valencia, Smalling, Jones, M Keane, Blackett, James, Fletcher, Cleverley, Anderson, Young, Mata, Kagawa, Zaha, Januzaj, Van Persie, Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez, Powell, W Keane.

At least the likes of Rafael, Valencia, Welbeck and RVP are back.

kryogen

I see Sunderland being set up in a 442 given how relatively weak we will probably be in the middle and they will try to get Johnson and Larsson down the sides of the the 3 central defenders to get balls in to Wickham and Fletcher, Wickham being target man and Fletcher looking for the knock downs and also to drag one of the centre backs out of position.