Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

ericzeking

We need tweeks.

We need a bit of extra quality in midfield to compete at the very top, that said what we have should be enough to beat Swansea at home.

And we need some cover at the back. We don't need the squad overhaul that is being intimated in this thread.

However, what we need most of all is the time for our manager to implement his philosphy. This appears to be in short supply...shorter supply than left sided defensive targets!!!!!

The_Kew_Tour

we need 3 players and they need to be good, very good.

if we can get them, then happy days.

I wont bank on it though.

But hey, 2 weeks is plenty of time

bullvine

The squad needs to be trimmed and the first 11 improved simple! get rid of 6 bring in 3!

Vic Vinegar

redbaron_99 wrote: »

ok. how about this

defence in 2008 - VDS, Neville, Vidic, Rio, Evra,
defence in 2014- DeGea, Young, Smalling, Jones, Evans (when fit), Shaw.

Midefield in 2008 - Carrick, Scholes, Hargreaves
Midfield 2014 - Herrera, Carrick (when fit - also 33 now)

Attack in 2008 - Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo
Attack 2014 - rvp (when fit), rooney, mata

A long and steady rot has led to this debacle.

Pretty amusing how you've put a proviso in for those in bold but not for the perennial sick note that is Hargreaves.

bullvine

From whats been said from Van Gaal he seems keen on Fellaini, hes mentioned his name a few times, I will be surprised if hes gotten rid.

Pro. F

redbaron_99 wrote: »

ok. how about this

defence in 2008 - VDS, Neville, Vidic, Rio, Evra,
defence in 2014- DeGea, Young, Smalling, Jones, Evans (when fit), Shaw.

Midefield in 2008 - Carrick, Scholes, Hargreaves
Midfield 2014 - Herrera, Carrick (when fit - also 33 now)

Attack in 2008 - Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo
Attack 2014 - rvp (when fit), rooney, mata

A long and steady rot has led to this debacle.

You're still missing the point. The fact that you put "when fit" after the currently injured players but ignore the fact that Neville and Hargreaves missed most of the 07/08 season through injury and the fact that you note Carrick's current age, but fail to note the fact that Neville and Scholes' were older in 2008 just shows that you are still trying to paint the picture as worse than it is.

There are flaws that need to be addressed, and the team right now, at the start of a new season under a new manager, isn't as good as it was in 2008. But you're fooling yourself into thinking that the descriptions of "long steady rot" and "debacle" are appropriate.

Mitch Connor

It looks like Rojo will get done - we still need another CB though. I don't know if we are evening targetting another. Hopefully we are.

Would love Benatia or Hummels but don't see us getting either. I can see us making a last ditch move for Vlaar around deadline day if we haven't got anyone.

If Vidal doesn't happen, and I still think the club are trying to do it - we will need to get someone in, espeically if Fellaini is on his way out. I reckoned De Jong would be a target, but it doesn't look like that now.

Very worrying two weeks ahead.

FutureGuy

ericzeking wrote: »

We need tweeks.

We need a bit of extra quality in midfield to compete at the very top, that said what we have should be enough to beat Swansea at home.

And we need some cover at the back. We don't need the squad overhaul that is being intimated in this thread.

However, what we need most of all is the time for our manager to implement his philosphy. This appears to be in short supply...shorter supply than left sided defensive targets!!!!!

I think people hugely underestimated Swansea, and we would do well not to underestimate any of our next 5 opponents. The shroud of invunerability around United has dissipated almost immediately and now sides will realise that we are as, if not more, vunerable than when Moyes was in charge. They can see we are not likely to sign players before Saturday, let along integrate them into the team.

And I have to disgaree that we need a bit of extra quality in midfield. We need two world class midfileders in addition to Herrera. Also, we do not need cover at the back, we need first teamers that are better, at a minimum, than our current players. Someone that is 26-27, on top of his game and experienced who can compliment the likes of Jones, Evans and Smalling.

I agree with the time to instill LVG's mentality. That will come in time, as will the above players. It's just that it will take time.

MagicIRL

Can anything be said for signing the great one, Andrea Pirlo? God, I love him.

homerjay2005

ericzeking wrote: »

However, what we need most of all is the time for our manager to implement his philosphy.

not sure the players are there to implement that philosophy or they are suited to his tactics and formations but i guess we will know for sure as the season goes on - you never know, a fully fit RVP could drag us to top 4 along with Shaw and Carrick back.

by all means im happy to accept that it will take time if the signings had been done, BUT to hear "give him time" as an excuse for persistent levels of incompetence at board level, is not acceptable to me.

kryogen

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Pictures on Daily Mail site of Jesse Lingard leaving hospital on crutches with a heavily bandaged knee in a brace.

Speculation last night was knee ligament damage, looked like it could be a possibility when you saw the challenge alright.

---

Anything concrete on these Fellaini rumours? There is literally no way in hell he could be left go if there is not at least one top class midfielder coming in, we would need two signings for centre midfield again (if we dont already)

Brendan Flowers

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Pretty amusing how you've put a proviso in for those in bold but not for the perennial sick note that is Hargreaves.

Gary Neville as well, who not only struggled with fitness but also like Carrick now...was 33 in 2008.

redbaron_99

Pro. F wrote: »

You're still missing the point. The fact that you put "when fit" after the currently injured players but ignore the fact that Neville and Hargreaves missed most of the 07/08 season through injury and the fact that you note Carrick's current age, but fail to note the fact that Neville and Scholes' were older in 2008 just shows that you are still trying to paint the picture as worse than it is.

There are flaws that need to be addressed, and the team right now, at the start of a new season under a new manager, isn't as good as it was in 2008. But you're fooling yourself into thinking that the descriptions of "long steady rot" and "debacle" are appropriate.

There has been a long steady rot of the squad.
7th place for manchester united is a debacle. And going by saturday, there's been very little improvement - if any at all.

My point is really about the overall quality of the team. Best in the PL and Europe 08. Probably 6th best in PL and not in Europe in 14.

bucketybuck

Pro. F wrote: »

But you're fooling yourself into thinking that the descriptions of "long steady rot" and "debacle" are appropriate.

Actually they are entirely appropriate descriptors. What was allowed to happen to that squad over the past five years was very much a long steady rot.

I wonder if Scholes would come back yet again?

Pro. F

People are slating Fletcher's performance the other day, and it wasn't good, but this defensive system with the five defenders sitting back and the two CMs expected to cover the width of the pitch is not going to work no matter who we bring in. The two lads were run ragged trying to cover all that ground when we didn't have the ball.

I am concerned about the slowness of adding players (especially for defensive depth). But I'm still more concerned that there are no signs that the defensive side of the 3412 is being coached effectively.

super_furry

With all this talk of splashing out on Rojo, is there any indication that Van Gaal just doesn't rate Shaw? He fairly hammered him when speaking out about him after he arrived and the deal for him was done long before he was a United manager.

beno619

super_furry wrote: »

With all this talk of splashing out on Rojo, is there any indication that Van Gaal just doesn't rate Shaw? He fairly hammered him when speaking out about him after he arrived and the deal for him was done long before he was a United manager.

Rojo would be a CB first and cover for Shaw secondly.

ericzeking

FutureGuy wrote: »

I think people hugely underestimated Swansea, and we would do well not to underestimate any of our next 5 opponents. The shrould of invunerability around United has dissipated almost immediately and now sides will realise that we are as, of not more, vunerable than when Moyes was in charge. They can see we are not likely to sign players before Saturday, let along integrate them into the team.

And I have to disgaree that we need a bit of extra quality in midfield. We need two world class midfileders in addition to Herrera. Also, we do not need cover at the back, we need first teamers that are better, at a minimum, than our current players. Someone that is 26-27, on top of his game and experienced who can compliment the likes of Jones, Evans and Smalling.

I agree with the time to instill LVG's mentality. That will come in time, as will the above players. It's just that it will take time.

If you are going to buy 2 world class centre mids to play with Herrera then where does Mata/Kagawa fit in, or will Januzaj get a shot at no10/Attacking midfield? Are you discarding Carrick and Fellaini altogether? I won't go there with TC23.... we don't have that many games this season, in medium term, yes we will need 2 top midfielders but just now I don't think so.

As for the defence, I think they all played well on Saturday (not counting Young as a defender-though he did ok as a wing back). I think Smalling and Jones really stepped up and looked like they were taking responsibility, it's unfortunate they were left so exposed by those in front so I think it's time to stick with 2 or 3 of Smalling, Jones and Evans, it's their time now.

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

Actually they are entirely appropriate descriptors. What was allowed to happen to that squad over the past five years was very much a long steady rot.

I wonder if Scholes would come back yet again?

Other than the central midfield, which was always Fergie's weakness, the rest of the squad was looked after fine.

Maximus Alexander

redbaron_99 wrote: »

My point is really about the overall quality of the team. Best in the PL and Europe 08. Probably 6th best in PL and not in Europe in 14.

It sucks, and I hope it changes soon, but this happens all the time in football. We've been very fortunate not to have to deal with it for a couple of decades as United fans.

Sure look at last year's top 4:

Man City: Recently went 44 years without a title, dropping as low as 9th in Division 2.

Liverpool: Currently 24 years without a title, having dropped to 8th on more than one occasion.

Chelsea: Went 50 years without a title, dropping to division 2 on numerous occasions. Were 6th as recently as 2012.

Arsenal: Now 10 years without a title, albeit remarkably consistent at finishing 4th and sometimes surprising themselves by pipping 3rd.

I don't think United will ever struggle like those teams have, at least not in the foreseeable future. I hated last year, I hate even considering that this year could be anything like it. But if that was the worst of it, then we'll have done all right when all is said and done.

Will I Amnt

super_furry wrote: »

With all this talk of splashing out on Rojo, is there any indication that Van Gaal just doesn't rate Shaw? He fairly hammered him when speaking out about him after he arrived and the deal for him was done long before he was a United manager.

Did he hammer him though? What I took from his comments was that he wasn't up to the required fitness for this new system. He didn't say he's 2 stone overweight like some people seem to think he did.

Pro. F

redbaron_99 wrote: »

There has been a long steady rot of the squad.
7th place for manchester united is a debacle. And going by saturday, there's been very little improvement - if any at all.

My point is really about the overall quality of the team. Best in the PL and Europe 08. Probably 6th best in PL and not in Europe in 14.

A long steady rot in a squad does not involve three league titles and two close second place finishes in five years.

7th place finish is a debacle but that was Moyes' fault and not a true reflection of the quality of the squad. This current squad is not the 6th best in the PL.

bangkok

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

It sucks, and I hope it changes soon, but this happens all the time in football. We've been very fortunate not to have to deal with it for a couple of decades as United fans.

Sure look at last year's top 4:

Man City: Recently went 44 years without a title, dropping as low as 9th in Division 2.

Liverpool: Currently 24 years without a title, having dropped to 8th on more than one occasion.

Chelsea: Went 50 years without a title, dropping to division 2 on numerous occasions. Were 6th as recently as 2012.

Arsenal: Now 10 years without a title, albeit remarkably consistent at finishing 4th and sometimes surprising themselves by pipping 3rd.

I don't think United will ever struggle like those teams have, at least not in the foreseeable future. I hated last year, I hate even considering that this year could be anything like it. But if that was the worst of it, then we'll have done all right when all is said and done.

and just on that look at all the money Chelsea spent and still have only won 1 league title in the last 8 years

redbaron_99

Pro. F wrote: »

A long steady rot in a squad does not involve three league titles and two close second place finishes in five years.

7th place finish is a debacle but that was Moyes' fault and not a true reflection of the quality of the squad. This current squad is not the 6th best in the PL.

The squad has been in a deep decline for years. I'm going to try to convince you of that. If you want to bury your head and blame it all on Moyes, then fine. it's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

bucketybuck

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I don't think United will ever struggle like those teams have

Oh we are taking a damn good run at it though.

I really think people don't appreciate where this could all end up, I am old enough to remember Liverpool as champions and as far as I am concerned some of the similarities are startling. We are making all the right noises to spend the next five years slipping further behind as all the while people wonder where it all went wrong.

If we miss out on Europe next season then this club is in for one hell of a culture shock.

homerjay2005

Pro. F wrote: »

This current squad is not the 6th best in the PL.

so what is it then? i think at the moment we are scraping for 6th with Everton and Spurs, 2 top quality signings puts us in running for 4th.

or more to the point, if they current squad is not added to for the rest of the season, where do you think we are finishing up?

we have some things in our advantage such as LVG (which will be huge in the long run i hope) but other clubs around us have improved their squads, while ours is now worse than 12 months ago overall.

Maximus Alexander

bucketybuck wrote: »

Oh we are taking a damn good run at it though.

I really think people don't appreciate where this could all end up, I am old enough to remember Liverpool as champions and as far as I am concerned some of the similarities are startling. We are making all the right noises to spend the next five years slipping further behind as all the while people wonder where it all went wrong.

If we miss out on Europe next season then this club is on for one hell of a culture shock.

Yeah you're absolutely right and I've floated this concern before, but it is a very pessimistic view. With the amount of money wrapped up in the club, it's more likely, or at least just as likely that it will be turned around.

For what it's worth, one of the major reasons clubs end up in long term decline is because they try to spend their way out of a crisis and end up in financial difficulty. I personally find it reassuring that United don't seem to be panicking and are taking the time to (hopefully) put things right gradually.

Coat22

Pro. F wrote: »

A long steady rot in a squad does not involve three league titles and two close second place finishes in five years.

7th place finish is a debacle but that was Moyes' fault and not a true reflection of the quality of the squad. This current squad is not the 6th best in the PL.

Wouldn’t be so sure about that – the 4 CL teams certainly have better squads than United and it’s a toss up then between united, spurs and Everton after that. United probably edge it to 5th but not by miles

Utopia Parkway

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

It sucks, and I hope it changes soon, but this happens all the time in football. We've been very fortunate not to have to deal with it for a couple of decades as United fans.

Sure look at last year's top 4:

Man City: Recently went 44 years without a title, dropping as low as 9th in Division 2.

Liverpool: Currently 24 years without a title, having dropped to 8th on more than one occasion.

Chelsea: Went 50 years without a title, dropping to division 2 on numerous occasions. Were 6th as recently as 2012.

Arsenal: Now 10 years without a title, albeit remarkably consistent at finishing 4th and sometimes surprising themselves by pipping 3rd.

I don't think United will ever struggle like those teams have, at least not in the foreseeable future. I hated last year, I hate even considering that this year could be anything like it. But if that was the worst of it, then we'll have done all right when all is said and done.

Football is a lot different now. Those clubs at the time often didn't have the financial power to keep themselves near the top. So once they started dropping back it got harder and harder to catch up. You can add Leeds to that list as well and they are still not back in the top flight. United can always spend their way out of trouble nowadays given the obscene amount of money sloshing about football these days and United's commercial strength.

kryogen

Coat22 wrote: »

Wouldn’t be so sure about that – the 4 CL teams certainly have better squads than United and it’s a toss up then between united, spurs and Everton after that. United probably edge it to 5th but not by miles

Liverpool have a better squad then us now?

Its the first XI where the problems lie

bullvine

I do see a lot of comparisons between United and the Liverpool of the early 90s, go back and have a look at the signings they made back then, I think they spent around 30m(huge amount back then) in around 3 years and pretty much none of the players worked out for them. I hope we're not going the same way.

Mr_Red

United will come around

We will have 3 new signings ( 3 improvements from our current squad )

Then we will be back doing this every weekend

Maximus Alexander

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Football is a lot different now. Those clubs at the time often didn't have the financial power to keep themselves near the top. So once they started dropping back it got harder and harder to catch up. You can add Leeds to that list as well and they are still not back in the top flight. United can always spend their way out of trouble nowadays given the obscene amount of money sloshing about football these days and United's commercial strength.

It's poignant that you mention Leeds, because they're a prime example of why you shouldn't try to spend your way out of trouble. Measured, reasoned spending is obviously a good thing to keep on top, and something United are guilty of failing to do properly in recent years, but if they start hemorrhaging cash on new players and still fail to get into the CL, it could be the beginning of the end for the club.

The club is wealthy now, but certainly not invincible.

Your Airbag

homerjay2005 wrote: »

here you go..this fellow could be the reason.



in fairness to Woodward, he is spending the money, he just cannot (as yet) seal any big deals or sign any of our top targets.

A gross mis representation.

He signed Mata, Herrera and Shaw. Chelsea were runored to be after Shaw and he got Mata agreed so quickly no other team had the option.

His first ssummer with Moyes he did not get Cesc or Thiago because Barca were not ready to offload Cesc and Thiago wanted Bayern.

Apparently there was a lot of headway made with Kross until LVG called it off and LVG showed no interest in Cesc this summer.

Coat22

kryogen wrote: »

Liverpool have a better squad then us now?

Its the first XI where the problems lie

We may have better attacking options than them but overall I think they have a stronger pool to choose from.

But you are right - first XI is the immediate issue for us

Pro. F

Here's a first team, second string and the additional players. This is not the exact pecking order that I would pick, but the one that the most people would agree with.
.....

DDG
Rafael Jones Evans Shaw
Nani Hererra Carrick Januzaj
Mata
Rooney

Lindegaard
Valencia Smalling Blackett James
Young Fletcher Fellaini Zaha
Kagawa
RvP

Additional players: Welbeck, Hernandez, Cleverley, Lingard, Will Keane and others.
.....

Only City, Chelsea and Arsenal are clearly ahead of that. In terms of quality and depth, at worst we're alongside Liverpool and Spurs and far ahead of Everton.

Giggsy11

Reports in Italy claim Fiorentina are preparing to receive a bid from Manchester United for Juan Cuadrado.

http://www.football-italia.net/54518/man-utd-preparing-cuadrado-bid

All these days ManUtd are preparing the bid, now Fiorentina are preparing to receive the bid. At this rate we can sign him in 3-4 years..

Mars Bar

The last time I went on a long haul flight, I arrived to discover we had signed two new players. Well today I do the return journey so fingers crossed!

Maximus Alexander

Giggsy11 wrote: »

http://www.football-italia.net/54518/man-utd-preparing-cuadrado-bid

All these days ManUtd are preparing the bid, now Fiorentina are preparing to receive the bid. At this rate we can sign him in 3-4 years..

The concept of 'preparing a bid' is much derided, but now they also need to 'prepare to receive a bid'? What does that entail? Making sure there's paper and toner in the printer, or something more involved?

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

A gross mis representation.

He signed Mata, Herrera and Shaw. Chelsea were runored to be after Shaw and he got Mata agreed so quickly no other team had the option.

Ha, thats a gross misrepresentation.

He got Mata so quickly because no other team wanted the option.

kryogen

Coat22 wrote: »

We may have better attacking options than them but overall I think they have a stronger pool to choose from.

But you are right - first XI is the immediate issue for us

Fair enough, I would disagree on the squads but its not that important

Adamocovic

Giggsy11 wrote: »

http://www.football-italia.net/54518/man-utd-preparing-cuadrado-bid

All these days ManUtd are preparing the bid, now Fiorentina are preparing to receive the bid. At this rate we can sign him in 3-4 years..

Preparing to receive a bid? Jaysus they'll write any story ha

Adamcp898

Giggsy11 wrote: »

http://www.football-italia.net/54518/man-utd-preparing-cuadrado-bid

All these days ManUtd are preparing the bid, now Fiorentina are preparing to receive the bid. At this rate we can sign him in 3-4 years..

I just have an image now of the Fiorentina board of directors all being called in in order to huddle around the fax machine in preparation for ''The Bid''.

Cantstandsya

Giggsy11 wrote: »

http://www.football-italia.net/54518/man-utd-preparing-cuadrado-bid

All these days ManUtd are preparing the bid, now Fiorentina are preparing to receive the bid. At this rate we can sign him in 3-4 years..

How does one "prepare to receive a bid"?

Maybe they take the "No Junk Mail!" notice off their post box?

Giggsy11

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

The concept of 'preparing a bid' is much derided, but now they also need to 'prepare to receive a bid'? What does that entail? Making sure there's paper and toner in the printer, or something more involved?

Making sure the fax machine is not broken? :pac:

Coat22

Your Airbag wrote: »

A gross mis representation.

He signed Mata, Herrera and Shaw. Chelsea were runored to be after Shaw and he got Mata agreed so quickly no other team had the option.

His first ssummer with Moyes he did not get Cesc or Thiago because Barca were not ready to offload Cesc and Thiago wanted Bayern.

Apparently there was a lot of headway made with Kross until LVG called it off and LVG showed no interest in Cesc this summer.

But of those 3:

Mata – Chelsea wanted rid, suited them to get rid to United as they probably don’t see them as a rival in the short term. Got £37M for Mata and spent £30 for Fabregas – who got the better deal?

Shaw – United in fairness played this one well. Out muscled Chelsea knowing the constraints FFP put them under. A good win for Woodward.

Herrara – could turn out to be great but hardly a world class signing.

If Moyes is to be believed they spent most of last summer chasing Ronaldo, Bale and Fabregas – the first 2 were a complete waste of time that were never going to happen and Fabregas always looked unlikely too.

Just hope Woodward doesn’t spend the next 2 weeks chasing Messi only to have to pay £30M to sign Vlaar on deadline day.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Here's Nani's involvement from Saturday.

lol at saying he did nothing.

As a response to someone saying Nani did nothing, this video is a good reply. He worked very hard.

Thats one context to summarise a viewing.

The other context is thaat in that video Nani operated as a winger for 45 mins, in that time he roughly did the following

• 3-4 crosses, two of which were poor and were cut out, all of the crosses came to nothing.
• 1 good pass into but Rooneys feet who controlled it well and almost got a shot off.
• Was dispossessed twice.
• Made a good run from his own box to the opposition bix and laid it off
• Made a few tackles, mostly good.
• A couple of good side to side runs ending with passes.

Lots of graft but a massive lack of qaulity. If you watch it from an is he good enough for UTD perspective then you'd have to say no.

Maximus Alexander

Adamcp898 wrote: »

I just have an image now of the Fiorentina board of directors all being called in in order to huddle around the fax machine in preparation for ''The Bid''.

They're all around the fax machine, they've checked the ink, filled the paper tray, made sure it's plugged in, straightened their ties and:

Pro. F

"Preparing a bid" and "preparing to receive a bid" both come from papers getting the most out of their gossip over a period of time. It's got nothing to do with how any club conducts their transfers imo.

kryogen

Coat22 wrote: »

But of those 3:

Mata – Chelsea wanted rid, suited them to get rid to United as they probably don’t see them as a rival in the short term. Got £37M for Mata and spent £30 for Fabregas – who got the better deal?

Shaw – United in fairness played this one well. Out muscled Chelsea knowing the constraints FFP put them under. A good win for Woodward.

Herrara – could turn out to be great but hardly a world class signing.

If Moyes is to be believed they spent most of last summer chasing Ronaldo, Bale and Fabregas – the first 2 were a complete waste of time that were never going to happen and Fabregas always looked unlikely too.

Just hope Woodward doesn’t spend the next 2 weeks chasing Messi only to have to pay £30M to sign Vlaar on deadline day.

Why? Like why do you compare the Mata and Fabregas transfers, sure why not say sold Luiz for 50 and bought Cesc for 30 wowzers thats deadly

You are not the first I have seen do it, I just dont understand it