Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

adox · 23-08-2014 9:31pm

NTMK wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28915510

Zico · 23-08-2014 9:31pm

Where did all these Straw men come from?

I'd heard the term used once or twice in years before this summer and now everyone is saying it.

Stupid gimmicky phrase.

billyhead · 23-08-2014 9:33pm

kryogen wrote: »

Di Maria would provide a big lift to the squad too actually, something I haven't been considering when thinking about the transfer.

True especially after LVGs comments about the team morale been shot to pieces after last weeks defeat. Didn't Rooney tell Paddy Crerand that their would be positive news on a new signing when in the USA. I don't know what the exact comments were

Sgt Pepper 64 · 23-08-2014 9:34pm

So your team desperately needs defenders and central midfielders and instead you spunk 50 mill or so on another luxury player who will also annoy your existing wingers.

Nice

BloodBath · 23-08-2014 9:34pm

Zico wrote: »

Where did all these Straw men come from?

I'd heard the term used once or twice in years before this summer and now everyone is saying it.

Stupid gimmicky phrase.

It's one that Pro F likes to use, just throwing it back at him.

Owryan · 23-08-2014 9:35pm

Watching sky news now and they are discussing the di maria transfer like it is a done deal and has already happened.

Adamocovic · 23-08-2014 9:35pm

kryogen wrote: »

Di Maria would provide a big lift to the squad too actually, something I haven't been considering when thinking about the transfer.

Yeah I agree there, my view has always been that despite the fact I think a holding CM is more important and despite the fact I'm not his biggest fan, bringing him in would offer a huge boost to the squad.

Morale will go up if you see a world class player choosing to join your team. And to move from a team like Real Madrid to United even when United don't have CL football would no doubt give the team and supporters extra confidence. Also it would hopefully convince other people to join our squad.

And despite all our talk about the defensive side of things we have been missing a bit of creativity and flair in the final third.

redzerdrog · 23-08-2014 9:37pm

Does this mean the end of the 3-5-2 formation that van gaal just invented this summer?

Pro. F · 23-08-2014 9:37pm

BloodBath wrote: »

I'm not ignoring it. I'm just choosing not to compare 2 players based on the ends of their careers in 2 completely different teams and roles. I'd sooner look at their entire careers and Gerrard's is simply better outside of winning SFA.

Their entire careers are irrelevant. Gerrard played as a central midfielder for all of last season, there is more than enough evidence to compare him to Carrick in that job.

BloodBath wrote: »

As for Arsenal you only reiterated what I had said in an earlier post that Arsenal are only lacking in a top CF and top Defensive mid. There is nothing to argue about here. It's obvious to anyone. Giroud is by no means a bad CF though.

Again I never mentioned the defence at all at any point until you brought it up after which I said I was happy enough with it unless we're playing 3 at back in which case we need another quality CB.

I also never mentioned the goalkeeper for obvious reasons as we're fine in that area. I have only spoken about the terrible midfield that needs to be sorted.

You talk about strawman arguments and go to great lengths to create them.

Giroud is not a bad CF and Carrick+Hererra backed up by Fletcher, Cleverley and Fellaini is not a bad central midfield.

Edit: You did mention the defence. You said something about not thinking we have enough defenders for the wing-back formation. Yes, so you did mention the defence and we disagree on that as well.

I know you hadn't mentioned the goal keepers, I didn't say that you had. However I think our keeper is miles better than Liverpool's and Arsenal's and I suspect that you don't agree with that.

keith16 · 23-08-2014 9:37pm

ElChe32 wrote: »

Just quoting this cos...

Lord TSC · 23-08-2014 9:38pm

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

So your team desperately needs defenders and central midfielders and instead you spunk 50 mill or so on another luxury player who will also annoy your existing wingers.

Nice

He is more than welcome to annoy them, and the door is open for them if they want to go.

Reality is we needed attacking potency as well, and he gives it. It might be third on the priority list, but it was something we needed to deal with soon anyway.

adox · 23-08-2014 9:39pm

Chelsea supporter coming into thread dissing potential Utd signing = Utd doing something right.

J. Marston · 23-08-2014 9:39pm

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

So your team desperately needs defenders and central midfielders and instead you spunk 50 mill or so on another luxury player who will also annoy your existing wingers.

Nice

Oh no, Ashley Young is going to be annoyed.

Whatever will we do?

adox · 23-08-2014 9:40pm

J. Marston wrote: »

Oh no, Ashley Young is going to be annoyed.

Whatever will we do?

Don't forget poor Antonio.

v3ttel · 23-08-2014 9:41pm

J. Marston wrote: »

Oh no, Ashley Young is going to be annoyed.

Whatever will we do?

I hear Preston is nice at this time of year :pac:

Kagawa · 23-08-2014 9:43pm

Great news about Di Maria, assuming it goes ahead, not exactly needed but the lift it gives to the club is definetly worth the excessive fee. This is needed right now and the statement of intent and will attract other big players we really need (vidal). Finally a bit of good news, much needed!

23-08-2014 9:46pm

Zico wrote: »

Where did all these Straw men come from?

I'd heard the term used once or twice in years before this summer and now everyone is saying it.

Stupid gimmicky phrase.

It's a pretty well known phrase to be fair.

BloodBath · 23-08-2014 9:47pm

Pro. F wrote: »

Their entire careers are irrelevant. Gerrard played as a central midfielder for all of last season, there is more than enough evidence to compare him to Carrick in that job.

Giroud is not a bad CF and Carrick+Hererra, backed up by Fletcher, Cleverley and Fellaini is not a bad central midfield.

You did mention the defence. You said something about not thinking we have enough defenders for the wing-back formation.

I know you hadn't mention the goal keepers, I didn't say that you had. However I think our keeper is miles better than Liverpool's and Arsenal's and I suspect that you don't agree with that.

Fair enough. I made a good few posts here today so easy to mix up the timeline.

I don't disagree that Carrick + Herrera would be an ok midfield but I honestly think Carrick is pretty much past it and we need a replacement this window especially with him being out for several months.

For the defence yes I said that and it's true. Look at the current situation and it's one that can/will repeat itself. We don't have enough cover at the back to play that formation. Rojo can cover 2 roles at least, I have no idea how good he is though or if he has the stamina and attacking prowess to play as a wide back in that formation.

The right side is screwed though with no evidence that Rafael can play that role effectively yet and there is no way Young or Valencia are good enough for this role against any decent opposition. What happens when Rafael is injured/suspended?

For a more traditional back 4 though we're fairly covered.

billyhead · 23-08-2014 9:47pm

http://i.minus.com/i6UqqRrwxo2OC.gif

The_Kew_Tour · 23-08-2014 9:48pm

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

So your team desperately needs defenders and central midfielders and instead you spunk 50 mill or so on another luxury player who will also annoy your existing wingers.

Nice

J. Marston · 23-08-2014 9:48pm

I know the club makes ridiculous amounts of money but if the Di Maria deal goes ahead, that is £170 million spent this calender year.

Any danger of running into trouble with FFP? Assuming we get Champions League/Europa League.

the incredible pudding · 23-08-2014 9:48pm

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

So your team desperately needs defenders and central midfielders and instead you spunk 50 mill or so on another luxury player who will also annoy your existing wingers.

He's not a luxury player though, he actually does a hell of a lot of work and is pretty damn effective as a midfielder in a 3 man midfield. It's the position where he made his name for himself for Benfica. If you were to compare it to Van Gaal's dutch side he could playing the role that De Guzman played but at a much higher level. I think he'd be a very good signing for United and is versatile enough to be able to play in a variety of formations.

I don't think he'd work in a 3-4-1-2 though, it'll be interesting to see how United evolve if he does sign. I predict they'll go through a bunch of different formations and as a result might not be too consistent this season. Some new roles will need to be carved out of existing players, which can be difficult. A signing like Di Maria can only be good for morale though, which is the real boost they need at the moment.

tinofapples · 23-08-2014 9:50pm

Nani's putting a bit of effort in tonight ........... it won't last ........ it never does !!

ctrl-alt-delete · 23-08-2014 9:52pm

J. Marston wrote: »

Oh no, Ashley Young is going to be annoyed.

Whatever will we do?

He always looks annoyed anyways!

DM_7 · 23-08-2014 9:53pm

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

So your team desperately needs defenders and central midfielders and instead you spunk 50 mill or so on another luxury player who will also annoy your existing wingers.

Nice

What wingers, Young and Valencia?

They can **** off any time and nobody would care

Mitch Connor · 23-08-2014 9:53pm

Potential formations - with Di Maria but no other signings (I believe United are trying to get another 2).

De Gea
Rafael--Smalling--Evans--Shaw

Carrick--Herrera
Januzaj

Mata

Di Maria

Rooney

De Gea
Rafael--Smalling--Evans--Shaw
----Herrera-Carrick-Di Maria

Mata

Rooney-RVP

De Gea
Rafael--Smalling--Evans--Shaw

Carrick

Herrera--Fletcher
Januzaj

Di Maria

Rooney

We certainly need another central midfielder, imo, and I believe we are going for one - whether we get them I dunno.

EDIT: Another option

De Gea
---Smalling---Evans--Rojo
Rafael

Shaw

Carrick-Herrera

Mata

Rooney-Di Maria

RayCun · 23-08-2014 9:54pm

J. Marston wrote: »

I know the club makes ridiculous amounts of money but if the Di Maria deal goes ahead, that is £170 million spent this calender year.

Any danger of running into trouble with FFP? Assuming we get Champions League/Europa League.

No

kryogen · 23-08-2014 9:54pm

@TheDoc, even on this forum for the last 4 years people have been talking about Vidal, not sure how you would have missed it completely

23-08-2014 9:54pm

J. Marston wrote: »

I know the club makes ridiculous amounts of money but if the Di Maria deal goes ahead, that is £170 million spent this calender year.

Any danger of running into trouble with FFP? Assuming we get Champions League/Europa League.

Utd are profitable as of the last set of financial results so I don't think it's an issue.

J. Marston · 23-08-2014 9:55pm

From Redcafe...

shano_88 · 23-08-2014 9:56pm

Daniel Taylor ‏@DTguardian 8m
Di Maria fee might be higher than thought. Nothing official but heard tonight 75m Euros (£59.9m) with potential 10m Euros add-ons #mufc

No doubt a very good player but definetly overpaying.

Pro. F · 23-08-2014 9:57pm

BloodBath wrote: »

Fair enough. I made a good few posts here today so easy to mix up the timeline.

I don't disagree that Carrick + Herrera would be an ok midfield but I honestly think Carrick is pretty much past it and we need a replacement this window especially with him being out for several months.

For the defence yes I said that and it's true. Look at the current situation and it's one that can/will repeat itself. We don't have enough cover at the back to play that formation. Rojo can cover 2 roles at least, I have no idea how good he is though or if he has the stamina and attacking prowess to play as a wide back in that formation.

The right side is screwed though with no evidence that Rafael can play that role effectively yet and there is no way Young or Valencia are good enough for this role against any decent opposition. What happens when Rafael is injured/suspended?

For a more traditional back 4 though we're fairly covered.

I've seen plenty of evidence that Raf can play wing-back well. I wouldn't mind a bit of extra cover there and maybe some extra cover at CB too - not a top class CB like you think we need brought in though. And I also don't think it is too much of a problem if we occasionally have to change to a back four if we're short of cover in injury crises.

So, pretty much every aspect of our squad and how they compare to Arsenal and Liverpool, we disagree on. I think it would be best if we left it there.

KH25 · 23-08-2014 9:58pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Potential formations - with Di Maria but no other signings (I believe United are trying to get another 2).
De Gea
Rafael--Smalling--Evans--Shaw
Carrick--Herrera
Januzaj
Mata
Di Maria
Rooney
De Gea
Rafael--Smalling--Evans--Shaw
----Herrera-Carrick-Di Maria
Mata
Rooney-RVP
De Gea
Rafael--Smalling--Evans--Shaw
Carrick
Herrera--Fletcher
Januzaj
Di Maria
Rooney

We certainly need another central midfielder, imo, and I believe we are going for one - whether we get them I dunno.

EDIT: Another option
De Gea
---Smalling---Evans--Rojo
Rafael
Shaw
Carrick-Herrera
Mata
Rooney-Di Maria

Was just about to say the rumours I've seen say we hope to sign 3 players next week, Di Maria included. Who could the other 2 be? I doubt we will get Vidal at this stage.

Mitch Connor · 23-08-2014 9:58pm

shano_88 wrote: »

No doubt a very good player but definetly overpaying.

agreed - paying more for him than Madrid did for the guy that has taken his spot.

On the other hand - I dont care. Prefer the money going on players than debt. It aint my money, and spending it on players means it isn't becoming the Glazers either.

Mitch Connor · 23-08-2014 9:59pm

KH25 wrote: »

Was just about to say the rumours I've seen say we hope to sign 3 players next week, Di Maria included. Who could the other 2 be? I doubt we will get Vidal at this stage.

Blind - and either Vidal or De Jong.

billyhead · 23-08-2014 9:59pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Potential formations - with Di Maria but no other signings (I believe United are trying to get another 2).
De Gea
Rafael--Smalling--Evans--Shaw
Carrick--Herrera
Januzaj
Mata
Di Maria
Rooney
De Gea
Rafael--Smalling--Evans--Shaw
----Herrera-Carrick-Di Maria
Mata
Rooney-RVP
De Gea
Rafael--Smalling--Evans--Shaw
Carrick
Herrera--Fletcher
Januzaj
Di Maria
Rooney

We certainly need another central midfielder, imo, and I believe we are going for one - whether we get them I dunno.

EDIT: Another option
De Gea
---Smalling---Evans--Rojo
Rafael
Shaw
Carrick-Herrera
Mata
Rooney-Di Maria

Tbh I doubt RVP will be dropped especially considering the working relationship LVG has with him. I reckon he will try and fit Mata, Roo and RVP in the same team as ADM.

KH25 · 23-08-2014 10:00pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Blind - and either Vidal or De Jong.

I would be very happy to get Blind. Very versatile solid player. Not too crazy on De Jong but he would be a definite upgrade.

Pro. F · 23-08-2014 10:01pm

Zico wrote: »

Where did all these Straw men come from?

I'd heard the term used once or twice in years before this summer and now everyone is saying it.

Stupid gimmicky phrase.

This should be required reading before you are given access to a forum:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

Lucas Hood · 23-08-2014 10:02pm

Anyone think Lvg may know Rvp doesn't have that long left in him or that he doesn't plan on sticking around for that long.?

I can't see a practical way to fit in Mata, Rvp, Rooney & Di Maria.

23-08-2014 10:02pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

agreed - paying more for him than Madrid did for the guy that has taken his spot.

On the other hand - I dont care. Prefer the money going on players than debt. It aint my money, and spending it on players means it isn't becoming the Glazers either.

You have to remember the Madrid transfer policy isn't particularly rational. The president has to make these massive signings in order to get reelected. Based on the past season of football is James Rodriguez better than Di Maria? I really don't think so.

billyhead · 23-08-2014 10:02pm

J. Marston wrote: »

I know the club makes ridiculous amounts of money but if the Di Maria deal goes ahead, that is £170 million spent this calender year.

Any danger of running into trouble with FFP? Assuming we get Champions League/Europa League.

Not a chance with the recent Adidas deal

IrishIrish · 23-08-2014 10:03pm

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Real Madrid must be laughing all the way to the bank ,they can smell the stench of desperation off Woodward.

Their fans and players wont be.

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

60-70m euro for a player they are desperately trying to sell ,who they tried to flog to Spurs last season for 30m ,and who they bought for 25m .

:D:D:D Yeh spurs just bought Lamela cos they didn't want Di Maria :pac::pac::pac:

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

When was the last time Real Madrid made 40m euro on a player ,they nearly always move players on at a loss ,sometimes a huge write down.

Hmmmmmm, last season with Ozil

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Di Maria is a good player but a very streaky temperamental one ,he has had one good season ,its a huge risk paying that money for him .

1 good season and a very streaky tempermental player

Have you ever watched him play? He's been quality for Real ever since they bought him and do you think he earned his move to Real Madrid by just playing average for Benfica??

He's also had 2 straight red cards in is whole career. I'm sure he'll manage with his temper :rolleyes:

Possibly the most idiotic post I have ever read.

Mitch Connor · 23-08-2014 10:04pm

billyhead wrote: »

Tbh I doubt RVP will be dropped especially considering the working relationship LVG has with him. I reckon he will try and fit Mata, Roo and RVP in the same team as ADM.

LVG is very clear that the team comes ahead of the individual - it is the one reason I think Rooney or Mata out wide won't be something LVG is keen on.

The only way they all play is with ADM in a central 3, no traditional wingers.

Add to this the fact LVG said he can't play 433 because he didn't have wingers with the quality of Ronaldo or Di Maria - lead me to believe he is being bought to play wide in a 433. So I think at least one of Mata, Rooney and RVP has to be dropped for him in a 433 that fits the profile and philosophy of LVG.

Of course he could try to shoe horn Rooney or Mata in out wide as Fergie and Moyes did before; or he could decide Di Maria is not going to play on the wing as he indicated.

Mitch Connor · 23-08-2014 10:06pm

Sarai Brief Thriller wrote: »

You have to remember the Madrid transfer policy isn't particularly rational. The president has to make these massive signings in order to get reelected. Based on the past season of football is James Rodriguez better than Di Maria? I really don't think so.

I don't think so either - I think James is a bit overrated and Madrid are making a mistake.

DM_7 · 23-08-2014 10:06pm

I think Mata could play the Iniesta Role in a 4-3-3

Fescue · 23-08-2014 10:08pm

Di Maria is exactly the type of player you guys are crying out for. But from what I understand LVG seems set n 3-5-2? He wuld hardly be asked to play wing back?

KH25 · 23-08-2014 10:09pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

LVG is very clear that the team comes ahead of the individual - it is the one reason I think Rooney or Mata out wide won't be something LVG is keen on.

The only way they all play is with ADM in a central 3, no traditional wingers.

Add to this the fact LVG said he can't play 433 because he didn't have wingers with the quality of Ronaldo or Di Maria - lead me to believe he is being bought to play wide in a 433. So I think at least one of Mata, Rooney and RVP has to be dropped for him in a 433 that fits the profile and philosophy of LVG.

Of course he could try to shoe horn Rooney or Mata in out wide as Fergie and Moyes did before; or he could decide Di Maria is not going to play on the wing as he indicated.

Rooney could potentially be deployed in midfield. Just a possibility although not one I'm happy with.

Vinz Mesrine · 23-08-2014 10:09pm

Fescue wrote: »

Di Maria is exactly the type of player you guys are crying out for. But from what I understand LVG seems set n 3-5-2? He wuld hardly be asked to play wing back?

Crying out for? More than a centre half or a central midfielder? I don't think so

Mantis Toboggan · 23-08-2014 10:10pm

Being reported now that the fee is actually 75 million with a further 10 million euros in bonuses.

Good man Ed, great deal!

Mitch Connor · 23-08-2014 10:11pm

Fescue wrote: »

Di Maria is exactly the type of player you guys are crying out for. But from what I understand LVG seems set n 3-5-2? He wuld hardly be asked to play wing back?

he is not set on it.

we are playing it because (in his paraphrased words)

1. the current makeup and quality of the squad.
2. a desire to be able to play 343/352 (if player form, fitness or opposition tactics require it) - which the players have not played before. they know how to play 433/451, so he doesn't need to train them in that to any great extent.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

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