Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Coat22

Giggsy11 wrote: »

http://www.football-italia.net/54518/man-utd-preparing-cuadrado-bid

All these days ManUtd are preparing the bid, now Fiorentina are preparing to receive the bid. At this rate we can sign him in 3-4 years..

"Everybody has to stay until after 4 o'clock today. If the bid hasn't come in by 6 we'll organise pizzas"

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

Ha, thats a gross misrepresentation.

He got Mata so quickly because no other team wanted the option.

Mata is world class, or considered so. Lots of rumors were flaoting around that Jose didn't want him. This was is a January window. Utd got him, if we didn't another top club would have or went for him in the summer.

Coat22 wrote: »

But of those 3:

Mata – Chelsea wanted rid, suited them to get rid to United as they probably don’t see them as a rival in the short term. Got £37M for Mata and spent £30 for Fabregas – who got the better deal?

Shaw – United in fairness played this one well. Out muscled Chelsea knowing the constraints FFP put them under. A good win for Woodward.

Herrara – could turn out to be great but hardly a world class signing.

If Moyes is to be believed they spent most of last summer chasing Ronaldo, Bale and Fabregas – the first 2 were a complete waste of time that were never going to happen and Fabregas always looked unlikely too.

Just hope Woodward doesn’t spend the next 2 weeks chasing Messi only to have to pay £30M to sign Vlaar on deadline day.

See above about Mata.

Herrera was considered one of the top young talents in Spain. Comparisons with Inesta etc, it remains to be seen what he can do but its not a shabby deal.

Giggsy11

Pro. F wrote: »

"Preparing a bid" and "preparing to receive a bid" both come from papers getting the most out of their gossip over a period of time. It's got nothing to do with how any club conducts their transfers imo.

I don't think anyone really believe all these "preparing bid" nonsense and no one can even explain what exactly it means.

FutureGuy

Adamcp898 wrote: »

I just have an image now of the Fiorentina board of directors all being called in in order to huddle around the fax machine in preparation for ''The Bid''.

Boardroom: Napoli

Director 1: Manchester United bid imminent.
Director 2: Imminent, this is the word they used, yes?
Director 1: Yes, imminent.
Director 2: Please make sure the fax is working next month so we are prepared.

Coat22

kryogen wrote: »

Why? Like why do you compare the Mata and Fabregas transfers, sure why not say sold Luiz for 50 and bought Cesc for 30 wowzers thats deadly

You are not the first I have seen do it, I just dont understand it

Well probably because both Mata and Fabregas are midfielders whereas Luiz is a defender?
:rolleyes:

Giggsy11

Btw, Sevilla signed Ever Banega for just 2 Million. He is inconsistent but when on form very good player.

Maximus Alexander

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I don't think anyone really believe all these "preparing bid" nonsense and no one can even explain what exactly it means.

The thing is, at least when they're 'preparing a bid' you can imagine or assume that each prospective deal is bespoke and that you'd need to get a solicitor to write up a proposal with lots of different clauses, performance related add-ons and so forth. You can imagine that might be a thing.

But 'preparing to receive'? Seriously newspapers, come on, give us some fecking credit.

Right, that's my last post on that topic. :pac:

Adamocovic

Maybe thats why we haven't signed anyone in a while, other teams haven't prepared their fax machines!! God dammit!

twam2008

Oh come on, we spent all of last Summer trying to get Fabregas, gave up and then bought Mata in January and Jose snaps up Fabregas with ease, Mata is an excellent player but Fabregas is better.

J. Marston

Adamocovic wrote: »

Maybe thats why we haven't signed anyone in a while, other teams haven't prepared their fax machines!! God dammit!

Send the ravens.

FutureGuy

twam2008 wrote: »

Oh come on, we spent all of last Summer trying to get Fabregas, gave up and then bought Mata in January and Jose snaps up Fabregas with ease, Mata is an excellent player but Fabregas is better.

Fabregas didn't want to play for us. Don't see the point of these posts. It's nothing to do with the club.

bangkok

Coat22 wrote: »

Well probably because both Mata and Fabregas are midfielders whereas Luiz is a defender?
:rolleyes:

classic....

Maximus Alexander

Coat22 wrote: »

Well probably because both Mata and Fabregas are midfielders whereas Luiz is a defender?
:rolleyes:

Luiz is a defender? Could have fooled me!

*Ba dum tish* :pac:

Mitch Connor

Daniel Taylor saying we are pushing hard for Di Maria. Didn't name drop any other targets bar saying we are NOT in for Benatia.

Very worrying times - while I'd like Di Maria at United I would (a) wonder where/how he would fit in to the current broken squad and (b) worry he would be a paper over the cracks signing - as I believe Mata and RVP were (personal opinion).

twam2008

The point is the people we send to sign the players aren't getting the job done, we spend all summer trying to sign players and two weeks to go have done feck all. If we'd put in a proper bid for Fabregas and got him last summer, last season could have been very different.

Liam O

Your Airbag wrote: »

As a response to someone saying Nani did nothing, this video is a good reply. He worked very hard.

Thats one context to summarise a viewing.

The other context is thaat in that video Nani operated as a winger for 45 mins, in that time he roughly did the following

• 3-4 crosses, two of which were poor and were cut out, all of the crosses came to nothing.
• 1 good pass into but Rooneys feet who controlled it well and almost got a shot off.
• Was dispossessed twice.
• Made a good run from his own box to the opposition bix and laid it off
• Made a few tackles, mostly good.
• A couple of good side to side runs ending with passes.

Lots of graft but a massive lack of qaulity. If you watch it from an is he good enough for UTD perspective then you'd have to say no.

What did you think of Januzaj's performance just so I can judge the scale you are using here? Nani was the only player with his head screwed on when it hit the fan and looked like he had the composure to do something. The amount of times in that video he received bad passes is what should be getting criticism, some shambolic ones from Mata and Rooney.

Your Airbag

Liam O wrote: »

What did you think of Januzaj's performance just so I can judge the scale you are using here? Nani was the only player with his head screwed on when it hit the fan and looked like he had the composure to do something. The amount of times in that video he received bad passes is what should be getting criticism, some shambolic ones from Mata and Rooney.

Absoluley. Feel free to judge Januzaj on that scale. He did better.

Like I said Nani worked hard and grafted well. Quality of final delivery and attacking threat was nothing to get excited about.

Robson99

All this talk about Di Maria and a 50 or 60m bid I would much rather see us go for Reus who could be the bargain of the summer if he leaves Dortmund. Also Subotic could be a much more acheivable signing than Hummels and may be better suited to our defence. I don't see a future for Kagawa irrespective of which formation we use as I see Adnan being given the chance to develop. Possible Kagawa going back to BD before deadline day

Maximus Alexander

twam2008 wrote: »

If we'd put in a proper bid for Fabregas and got him last summer, last season could have been very different.

There is no bid of any size that would have got Fabregas last summer.

"I would not leave even if they offered double my salary."

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

As a response to someone saying Nani did nothing, this video is a good reply. He worked very hard.

Thats one context to summarise a viewing.

The other context is thaat in that video Nani operated as a winger for 45 mins, in that time he roughly did the following

• 3-4 crosses, two of which were poor and were cut out, all of the crosses came to nothing.
• 1 good pass into but Rooneys feet who controlled it well and almost got a shot off.
• Was dispossessed twice.
• Made a good run from his own box to the opposition bix and laid it off
• Made a few tackles, mostly good.
• A couple of good side to side runs ending with passes.

Lots of graft but a massive lack of qaulity. If you watch it from an is he good enough for UTD perspective then you'd have to say no.

A 50% strike rate of good crosses to poor is fine for a winger at any club. I doesn't matter that nothing came of his good crosses, if he keeps putting them in at that rate then plenty will come of them over a proper sample size.

A couple of side to side runs and a couple of good penetrating runs along with a couple of dispossessions and a couple of link ups, again is fine for a winger at a top club.

I wouldn't call it a massive lack of quality myself at all. But, even if we were to agree that he only did okay and lacked quality, it was a 45 minute appearance in a struggling team in the first game of the season. Using that to arrive at the conclusion that he isn't good enough for the club is wrong.

bangkok

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

There is no bid of any size that would have got Fabregas last summer.

"I would not leave even if they offered double my salary."

easy say that though, there was clearly interest from Fabregas, he could have stated he had no intention of moving when the first bid came in, but he said nothing until Barcelona stated that he would not be sold

How Soon Is Now

Robson99 wrote: »

All this talk about Di Maria and a 50 or 60m bid I would much rather see us go for Reus who could be the bargain of the summer if he leaves Dortmund. Also Subotic could be a much more acheivable signing than Hummels and may be better suited to our defence. I don't see a future for Kagawa irrespective of which formation we use as I see Adnan being given the chance to develop. Possible Kagawa going back to BD before deadline day

Seen somewhere on Twitter this morning a quote from Beckanbaur saying if Reus was to leave next summer it be Real or Utd if he doesnt want to join Bayern.

TheDoc

There is a good argument to install a Director of football who has experience signing players and dealing at a high level...and allowing Woodward focus on the commercial aspect of his job.

As weeks are ticking down I'm starting to slowly take the belief he hasn't learned his lessons and is struggling in that area.

Delegating that work to a person with a proven track record might be the solution long term.

Can't help think Roja and Blind will be our lot...with LVG keeping tabs on Vidal and Strootman until January...with the preference for Strootman.

Be annoying if we end up with Strootman...for what will be big money....after having the chance to take him from PSV for 12m.

*Just reading Jamie Jackson saying Unitedconfident a deal is wrapping up shortly. Didn't specify who..assume its Roja

Pro. F

twam2008 wrote: »

Oh come on, we spent all of last Summer trying to get Fabregas, gave up and then bought Mata in January and Jose snaps up Fabregas with ease, Mata is an excellent player but Fabregas is better.

The talk, from the year before we were linked to him, was that he wanted to move back to London where his lady lives. So that would explain why Chelsea could get him when we couldn't.

Mitch Connor

Pro. F wrote: »

The talk, from the year before we were linked to him, was that he wanted to move back to London where his lady lives. So that would explain why Chelsea could get him when we couldn't.

I would say the explanation actually is Chelsea bid the figure Barcelona wanted for him. United did not. Fabregas never rejected United last summer, because we never had a bid accepted for him.

ericzeking

I posted there the other morning but it was early...we're not going to sign a conventional central midfielder (Di Maria wouldn't be one) this window and I think we should all get used to it...the reasons I feel this will be the case are

Fletcher has been made vice captain
LVG has a reported high regard for Carrick
LVG wants Strootman and is waiting on his knee so January for him

I'd love to be wrong. At the same time though, Carrick and Herrera behind Mata, I like that but obviously MC is injured...

Fenix

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Seen somewhere on Twitter this morning a quote from Beckanbaur saying if Reus was to leave next summer it be Real or Utd if he doesnt want to join Bayern.

He said real or Manchester... I also remember when that used to automatically mean Utd...

TheDoc

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Seen somewhere on Twitter this morning a quote from Beckanbaur saying if Reus was to leave next summer it be Real or Utd if he doesnt want to join Bayern.

Don't see him replacing Bale or Ronaldo. Can't see Reus going to Real at all.

If there was a shred of hope of getting him...I'd be going for him now rather then next year.

kryogen

Coat22 wrote: »

Well probably because both Mata and Fabregas are midfielders whereas Luiz is a defender?
:rolleyes:

Ok then

Can you or that little **** head roll eyes answer why you use Fabregas instead of Matic then who was bought in the same window Mata was sold?

:pac::D;):rolleyes::):p:o:cool::P:confused::eek::(:mad:

Coat22

TheDoc wrote: »

There is a good argument to install a Director of football who has experience signing players and dealing at a high level...and allowing Woodward focus on the commercial aspect of his job.

As weeks are ticking down I'm starting to slowly take the belief he hasn't learned his lessons and is struggling in that area.

Delegating that work to a person with a proven track record might be the solution long term.

Can't help think Roja and Blind will be our lot...with LVG keeping tabs on Vidal and Strootman until January...with the preference for Strootman.

Be annoying if we end up with Strootman...for what will be big money....after having the chance to take him from PSV for 12m.

There’s not an argument – there’s an absolute necessity. Woodward is undoubtedly the king of commercial development but he’s got to let this side of the business go.

United have needed a Director of Football for years.

dahat

Fenix wrote: »

He said real or Manchester... I also remember when that used to automatically mean Utd...

Said Oliver Holt.... Utd were never ahead of Madrid in the transfer market.

TheDoc

ericzeking wrote: »

I posted there the other morning but it was early...we're not going to sign a conventional central midfielder (Di Maria wouldn't be one) this window and I think we should all get used to it...the reasons I feel this will be the case are

Fletcher has been made vice captain
LVG has a reported high regard for Carrick
LVG wants Strootman and is waiting on his knee so January for him

I'd love to be wrong. At the same time though, Carrick and Herrera behind Mata, I like that but obviously MC is injured...

If there is a wait for Strootman I'd be more then happy. But we would want to get some things in place now and then take him quickly in winter window.

The worry would be having competition of inflated pricing. Definitely a long term signing considering his potential and already meteoric rise. Hope he comes back strong from injury.

Maximus Alexander

dahat wrote: »

Said Oliver Holt.... Utd were never ahead of Madrid in the transfer market.

Pretty sure he was referring to the "Manchester" part formerly meaning United, whereas now it may also mean City.

Fenix

From telegraph

"Barcelona will allow Alex Song to leave on a free loan, which could tempt a number of Premier League clubs http://t.co/5HxM9OCTzS"

Could do worse. 0% risk.

bangkok

Coat22 wrote: »

There’s not an argument – there’s an absolute necessity. Woodward is undoubtedly the king of commercial development but he’s got to let this side of the business go.

United have needed a Director of Football for years.

no thank you, nothing but disasters imo

Pro. F

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Daniel Taylor saying we are pushing hard for Di Maria. Didn't name drop any other targets bar saying we are NOT in for Benatia.

Very worrying times - while I'd like Di Maria at United I would (a) wonder where/how he would fit in to the current broken squad and (b) worry he would be a paper over the cracks signing - as I believe Mata and RVP were (personal opinion).

Here's a theory that would account for both aspects of that news and represent a logical strategy towards building the team:
we buy Di Maria and don't buy any more centre-backs;
we play 433 permanently and trust the CBs we have to be good enough;
we probably drop one of Rooney, RvP or Mata and play Di Maria and Januzaj on the wing;
we buy one of Strootman or Vidal when they prove to be over their injury (maybe waiting until January);
we buy some cover at full-back;

I'd be happy that the manager was making logical decisions if he was to do it that way. And I would like to see Jones, Smalling, Evans, Blackett and Januzaj given the good opportunity like that.

Crimson King

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I would say the explanation actually is Chelsea bid the figure Barcelona wanted for him. United did not. Fabregas never rejected United last summer, because we never had a bid accepted for him.

This is the reason, United knew he wanted to leave and tried to get him on the cheap, probably even encouraged the player to hand in a transfer request to save the selling club a few quid to make more economical sense to Barca.

The same way they are doing it for Rojo and also for Herrera last season. It's beyond a joke at this stage, if the manager wants the player get him ffs. Annoys the fcuk out of me the penny pinching and then on deadline paying £4M over the odds for a player barely wanted, just to avoid the backlash of fans if nobody was signed.

Coat22

kryogen wrote: »

Ok then

Can you or that little **** head roll eyes answer why you use Fabregas instead of Matic then who was bought in the same window Mata was sold?

:pac::D;):rolleyes::):p:o:cool::P:confused::eek::(:mad:

Temper temper - you actually make a good point about Matic but lost the effect in your little tantrum there

TheDoc

Coat22 wrote: »

There’s not an argument – there’s an absolute necessity. Woodward is undoubtedly the king of commercial development but he’s got to let this side of the business go.

United have needed a Director of Football for years.

We've never needed one because there was never a need to entire players strongly. Domestic dominance and consistent European forays....you shouldn't have needed much convincing as a player.

However now convincing is needed...and we are operating in a market that laughably we havnt been to involved in previously...buying finished articles from big clubs. That needs someone with experience.

Robson99

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I would say the explanation actually is Chelsea bid the figure Barcelona wanted for him. United did not. Fabregas never rejected United last summer, because we never had a bid accepted for him.

Barca sold Thiago and changed manager around the time of us being linked with Fabergas IIRC. This didn't help our cause and I also think Fabergas was only going to go back to London when he left barca

Mr_Red

Coat22 wrote: »

There’s not an argument – there’s an absolute necessity. Woodward is undoubtedly the king of commercial development but he’s got to let this side of the business go.

United have needed a Director of Football for years.

I hear Joe Kinnear is available

RobbingBandit

£50m for Di Maria screams of Torres,Andy Carroll, Fellaini type deals, yes he is a world class player but being forced to payout so much is disturbing.

Money is ruining football on a whole given that some teams will splurge on shrewd buys but often the bigger the club the bigger the fee for incoming players, Di Maria would fit in well but he would only be the first of at least three to five players needed to rebuild the team and I don't see a further £200m being spent regardless of what has been said by Woodward, paying way over the odds for players is not the way to rebuild as we have seen in the past with Veron being a prime example.

MagicIRL

Fenix wrote: »

From telegraph

"Barcelona will allow Alex Song to leave on a free loan, which could tempt a number of Premier League clubs http://t.co/5HxM9OCTzS"

Could do worse. 0% risk.

Perfect signing for them as well, as we're not Europe challengers. Plus, he would walk in to our midfield.

ericzeking

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I would say the explanation actually is Chelsea bid the figure Barcelona wanted for him. United did not. Fabregas never rejected United last summer, because we never had a bid accepted for him.

I think this is a convenient stance to take if you are anti Woodward/United Board.... if you think we would publicly court Fabregas in manager press conferences and everywhere else all summer and not pay the 30m yet then proceed to pay 28m for Fellaini and 37m for Mata then....that's mad ted....in my opinion of course

kryogen

Coat22 wrote: »

Temper temper - you actually make a good point about Matic but lost the effect in your little tantrum there

Oh you should see me. Hopping mad I am, can't stand still the rage is so ginormous :mad::(:eek:P:cool::pac::D;):rolleyes::):p:o

ps. I take it neither you or the roll eyes has any logical reason why Fabregas is use and not Matic.

RayCun

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I would say the explanation actually is Chelsea bid the figure Barcelona wanted for him. United did not. Fabregas never rejected United last summer, because we never had a bid accepted for him.

‘I would not have moved from Barcelona – not even for more money,’ said Fabregas. ‘I wouldn’t have gone for double or even triple the amount I earn now. I paid out of my own pocket to move to Barca – I earned more at Arsenal. ‘United did not speak with me, and I’ve always said the only thing on my mind is Barca.’

.

bangkok

Mr_Red wrote: »

I hear Joe Kinnear is available

didn't dennis wise do director of football as well at Newcastle?! didn't end well

Pro. F

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I would say the explanation actually is Chelsea bid the figure Barcelona wanted for him. United did not. Fabregas never rejected United last summer, because we never had a bid accepted for him.

That is also possible. Although we don't know whether Fabregas rejected United in private before they made a bid. You can argue that United should have made a bid anyway to test his resolve, but then Woodward might not have wanted to be seen to fail when he believed there was no chance.

I do agree that Woodwards stated concern about what the fans think about transfers is a bad thing.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

A 50% strike rate of good crosses to poor is fine for a winger at any club. I doesn't matter that nothing came of his good crosses, if he keeps putting them in at that rate then plenty will come of them over a proper sample size.

A couple of side to side runs and a couple of good penetrating runs along with a couple of dispossessions and a couple of link ups, again is fine for a winger at a top club.

I wouldn't call it a massive lack of quality myself at all. But, even if we were to agree that he only did okay and lacked quality, it was a 45 minute appearance in a struggling team in the first game of the season. Using that to arrive at the conclusion that he isn't good enough for the club is wrong.

Nothing was created from Nanis crosses. I don't know where the 50% of good crosses is coming from.

Creatively it was lacking quality. Using the 45min in a struggling team in the first game of the season line is wrong. How long has Nani been at UTD, how many chanes has he had and how many question marks are still over him?

My opinion is that he has never had a long run, I don't think he actually has played 6-7 back to back games in his time at UTD. I'd give him that chance and if he can't produce better than he'd go on the outbound list.

Its last chance saloon time though.

kryogen

It doesn't matter if nothing came from his crosses, that is no way to judge a good cross!