Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Pro. F

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

What's that got to do with anything he's posted?

The connection between the two is very straight forward, I'm not going to walk you through it.

Rayne Wooney

Lucas Hood wrote: »

It was £45m for Markovic & Lallana but what have got to do with anything?

Some people in this thread just love to bring up Liverpool.

The only reason I brought it up is because it seems to be the main topic amongst their fans on here at the moment and the consensus seems to be the price tag is loltastic, when in reality it isn't

Lucas Hood

hangballlouie wrote: »

Underdogs is stretching it a bit considering they were runner ups in the previous world cup.

I don't think they were in the top10 favourites with the bookies. They definitely over achieved.

Fescue

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The only reason I brought it up is because it seems to be the main topic amongst their fans on here at the moment and the consensus seems to be the price tag is loltastic, when in reality it isn't

According to Graham Hunter Madrid are asking for £75 million? That's pretty mental if true.

magnumbud

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I don't think they were in the top10 favourites with the bookies. They definitely over achieve.

they werent i got 30-1 for them nearly cried when they lost would have made me so much

Mr Alan

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Rubbish.

? Why so?

Maximus Alexander

J. Marston wrote: »

People really shouldn't be rising to it.

And quoting it. :mad:

redbaron_99

Mr Alan wrote: »

? Why so?

FFP

adox

Fescue wrote: »

According to Graham Hunter Madrid are asking for £75 million? That's pretty mental if true.

€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Lallana + Markovic for £40 million <<<<< Di Maria for £55 million

Every day of the week

We need Di Maria but he's probably 3rd priority at the moment behind a CM and defender

Why compare them to those players though? It doesn't make sense.

Fairly certain you know nothing about one of them btw.

Nobody is saying Di Maria is a poor player but signing him in isolation wouldn't be benefit Utd greatly

Fescue

adox wrote: »

€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€

Graham Hunter ‏@BumperGraham 43m
#Madrid tell #United, at least in opening gambit, that want £75m for #DiMaria
Either taking them for suckers/desperate.Top player
#Too much

££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

Cantstandsya

Pro. F wrote: »

What I find blindingly obvious is the fact that Manchester United (or any company) do not have an unlimited budget for transfers (or any expenditure) and that if you are going to make claims about how buying Di Maria wouldn't have any affect on the transfer budget you should at least have a vague idea about how much money the club actually has available to spend. .

So I have to know how much money United have to spend in order to claim that the transfer won’t have an effect on the other potential transfers but it’s perfectly reasonable for you to claim that it will have an effect without any such knowledge? Nice double standard you’re using there.

What you actually said was blindingly obvious was how it was “extremely simple to see how the money spent on one transfer will affect the other transfers”… except it’s not easy to see at all is it? You haven’t got a breeze if United have a fixed transfer budget, if they do have one you’ve no idea how big that budget is and there is no way on earth you can know what impact signing Di Maria might have on that budget.

You can say it’s obvious there is a budget and the Di Maria signing impacts it and that it’s simple to see, that doesn’t make it a fact though, regardless of how condescendingly you want to preach your point. You’ve simply assumed that there is a fixed budget and that the prospective Di Maria transfer will use most of it up.

If United are trying to buy players, the most likely explanation is that they are working to set a list approved by LvG and are allocating resources accordingly in an organic fashion depending on which transfer targets become available and how the various negotiations are proceeding.

Pro. F wrote: »

The fact that you admit that you don't know how much available money there is and yet you want to argue for how you think a proposed purchase can easily be afforded, shows how ridiculous your argument is. .

My position is based on the fact that United are, by far, the richest team in England and a combination of factors (increased earnings, other teams less able to compete owing to FFP and the current necessity for the Glazers to protect their asset by significantly investing) means this is the time to spend. Your whole position is based on the assumption that you know the budget is being severely impacted by the potential Di Maria signing because United are not one of the “sugar daddy” clubs. How is that, using your own logic, any less ridiculous?

You are making two assumptions. The first is the idea that there is a fixed budget that this transfer eats into significantly. You don’t know that there is a budget and if there is you certainly don’t know what it is. The second assumption is that the potential failure to sign other players will be a result of Di Maria’s arrival. This is nonsense, you’ve no idea if United are trying to buy anyone else at all, if they are you’ve no way of knowing who they are trying to buy and even if you could know that, you still wouldn’t have a clue how the Di Maria signing was impacting on those efforts. I could just as easily turn around and arbitrarily claim that it was “blindingly obvious” that the Di Maria transfer will help further signings because those players will see that United mean business and are on the right track. It might be true but it’s still just my opinion and it’s certainly not “blindingly obvious” and those who counter are not being idiotic since either assumption is based on nothing but opinion.

Pro. F wrote: »

As of September 2013 United had £94m cash in the bank. This year's end results will be out in the coming weeks. The club also have a special credit facility for emergency transfer spending that is £75m per year iirc, but using that would mean more debt. The club have already spent £37m on Mata, £27-£30m on Shaw, £29m (possibly plus significant additional taxes) on Hererra and £16m on Rojo. Almost certainly most or all of those fees (except for Hererra's) are being paid in instalments, but they will still add up to a significant expenditure this year. So yes, the proposed fees being talked about for Di Maria do represent a significant proportion of the money available to spend.

So they had 94 million in the bank in September 2013 and access to 75 million in loans (which would result in more debt which we know the Glazers are not averse to incurring). Since then they’ve signed quite a few lucrative commercial deals, including the colossal Adidas deal, and there is a proposed sale of $200 million in shares, not to mention the extra money from the improved TV deal that kicked in last season. They’ve added players to the wage bill but also taken a good few top earners off. As you noted, those transfer prices, and indeed Di Maria’s transfer, will likely be paid in instalments, usually over the duration of the contracts, contracts that will run over the course of the aforementioned commercial deals (Adidas deal alone worth 75 million a year). How you can look at those figures and conclude that the Di Maria transfer prevents further signings I’ve no idea.

Cantstandsya

Pro. F wrote: »

The connection between the two is very straight forward, I'm not going to walk you through it.

You seem to do this a lot. Ironic for someone who earlier posted a link to logical fallacies.

Bleating Lamb

Here's a theory for the Vidal lovers from earlier in summer on forum!;)
Maybe Utd are playing up to Madrid by 'chasing' Di Maria and lo and behold will unveil Vidal tomorrow morning!!...for far less money and then bring in Daley Blind and unveil him too.
Personally that would be a far better Monday for me than the unveiling of Di Maria for huge fee and wage packet.

Rayne Wooney

rarnes1 wrote: »

Why compare them to those players though? It doesn't make sense.

Fairly certain you know nothing about one of them btw.

Nobody is saying Di Maria is a poor player but signing him in isolation wouldn't be benefit Utd greatly

Lallana Markovic and Di Maria play in similar positions, two went for a combined 40 million while one who has been top class in champions league and a World Cup is apparently going for 55 million, I'd rather spend 55 on one than 40 on the other two

I think you'll find about 100% of United fans agree that Di Maria won't solve the CM and defender issue

Larry Wildman

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Careful now. If you don't think that everything at Old Trafford is rosy or if you dare to query whether Juan Mata's been a good signing, the mob will be after you.

This thread is a joke. Myopic fanboys posting pictures of jokers like Berbatov and Mata and high fiving each other about how great they are.

Mata has been a disatrous signing. £37m! He is a Chelsea reject. Mourinho didn't rate him at all. The Spanish don't fancy him either. No other clubs wanted him. And since he signed for us, he has done sweet FA. He's just been lucky in that Fellaini's been so bad so it's probably deflected some of the attention from him. A panic buy who we overpaid for in an area that didn't need strengthening.

You heard it here first - Di Maria will be one of the worst signings in the club's history. Why?

- Real Madrid want rid of him.
- Nobody else wants him.
- We have more urgent needs.
- Our experience with Argentinian players have been shocking.
- He won't be able to handle the rough and tumble.

This is classic.
Nobody wants the player who praticaly won the champions league last season for Madrid.
Oh I do love Sunday mornings!

OwaynOTT

If Utd do sign DiMaria, I can see him being a great signing for the club and there will be attacking options that any club would drool over.
Priority should be getting back into top 4 and as high as possible and I think DiMaria can be a great help here.
Liverpool showed last year that a great attack can make up for deficiencies elsewhere, as long as you out score the opposition. And with DiMaria, Rooney, Mata, Van Persie and the others pitching in, I can see Utd doing very well.

Headshot

Cant wait for todays game. This Di Maria potential transfer has really brightened me up

redbaron_99

So, Rojo is gets the number 5 shirt. Di Maria gets the number 7 shirt. That leaves the number 9 still vacant, right?

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Lallana Markovic and Di Maria play in similar positions, two went for a combined 40 million while one who has been top class in champions league and a World Cup is apparently going for 55 million, I'd rather spend 55 on one than 40 on the other two

I think you'll find about 100% of United fans agree that Di Maria won't solve the CM and defender issue

Madrid are taking Utd to the cleaners with that fee, let's be honest.

Fabregas and Kroos combined is less cash, and either one would be worth more to Utds current set up than Di Maria

Lucas Hood

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Lallana Markovic and Di Maria play in similar positions, two went for a combined 40 million while one who has been top class in champions league and a World Cup is apparently going for 55 million, I'd rather spend 55 on one than 40 on the other two

I think you'll find about 100% of United fans agree that Di Maria won't solve the CM and defender issue

£45m combined.

redbaron_99

rarnes1 wrote: »

Madrid are taking Utd to the cleaners with that fee, let's be honest.

Fabregas and Kroos combined is less cash, and either one would be worth more to Utds current set up than Di Maria

55 million isn't taking united to the cleaners. He is one the best players at the current European champions.

NTMK

rarnes1 wrote: »

Madrid are taking Utd to the cleaners with that fee, let's be honest.

Fabregas and Kroos combined is less cash, and either one would be worth more to Utds current set up than Di Maria

they are but they an other clubs know we're desperate

Fabregas was never joining us once london club went in hes already set up there

we may never know what happened with kroos

bangkok

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Careful now. If you don't think that everything at Old Trafford is rosy or if you dare to query whether Juan Mata's been a good signing, the mob will be after you.

This thread is a joke. Myopic fanboys posting pictures of jokers like Berbatov and Mata and high fiving each other about how great they are.

Mata has been a disatrous signing. £37m! He is a Chelsea reject. Mourinho didn't rate him at all. The Spanish don't fancy him either. No other clubs wanted him. And since he signed for us, he has done sweet FA. He's just been lucky in that Fellaini's been so bad so it's probably deflected some of the attention from him. A panic buy who we overpaid for in an area that didn't need strengthening.

You heard it here first - Di Maria will be one of the worst signings in the club's history. Why?

- Real Madrid want rid of him.
- Nobody else wants him.
- We have more urgent needs.
- Our experience with Argentinian players have been shocking.
- He won't be able to handle the rough and tumble.

Everyone at Madrid wants him apart from Perez.

Psg want him

Barcelona bid for him already

Man utd want him

You don't have a clue

tupac_healy

Yup upping the price seems like a typical Madrid move......


Hope the 'don't sign him' crowd are happy now, can't see us getting him for £75mil....

Headshot

rarnes1 wrote: »

Madrid are taking Utd to the cleaners with that fee, let's be honest.

Fabregas and Kroos combined is less cash, and either one would be worth more to Utds current set up than Di Maria

Di Maria is among the top 5 players in the world. You also have to consider the final fee will all depend all trophies/success. 75m most likely be a bargain price in the years to come

Leroy42

Last year was a disaster.

Since tgen we have got in a top class manager, signed
Shaw - young and considered the best lb in tge country.
Rojo - a decent, if not as yet world class, RB/CB
Herrera - a top class midfielder
DiMaria - world class, his injury really effected Argentina.

If we start on the basis that Moyes failed in getting the best out of tge squad he had, then 7th was an underachievement. Those players, would would hope, will bring us additional points as well.

People go on about our defence losing three players but last season Rio was well off the pace, Evra has lost pace the season before and Vidic wasn't really playing at 100%.

We are not going to win the league, but then once the decision was made to not go with Mourinho we basically handed the title to Chelsea for two or three seasons anyway.

VG can get us into top 4 and then we can push on from there.

This falloff was always going to happen once SAF stepped down. I didnt expect the devline to be so drastic but it might actually be better in the long term as it forced Utd to act rather than accept a slow decline like Liverpool suffered 25years ago

Kagawa

rarnes1 wrote: »

Madrid are taking Utd to the cleaners with that fee, let's be honest.

Fabregas and Kroos combined is less cash, and either one would be worth more to Utds current set up than Di Maria

I agree but let's say Di Maria's true value is £45m and utd pay £20m + extra. If Di Maria is the difference between 6th and 4th then I would not be too annoyed and the extra cost, particularly if we get Blind and De Jong. It will be a lift to the club which is much needed and a statement of intent which is vital if we are to convince other top players of the clubs intent.

Lucas Hood

Look we all know Di Maria is a great player but let's not kid ourselves he's certainly not in the top 5 in the world.

Quandary

rarnes1 wrote: »

Fabregas and Kroos combined is less cash, and either one would be worth more to Utds current set up than Di Maria

Van Gaal clearly doesn't think so.

I actually agree with you btw, but if LVG turned down the chance to sign them(which according to various sources he did) then I am happy to give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows what he is doing.

Right now I'm loving the Di Maria move but if by close of transfer window we haven't signed a centre mid then I will be more than slightly miffed.

Vince135792003

While Di Maria mightn't solve the midfield or defensive problem, he will bring pace, guile and excitement to our attack which has been missing for at least a year now and arguably longer. He is a fantastic player.

adox

While I do think Utd will end up overpaying for Di Maria if he does sign, I don't think theres a hope in hell the fee will be £75 million.

xtal191

https://twitter.com/ManUtdUpdates_/status/503490325785374721

jesus_thats_gre

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Guys, this Van Gaal character is a spoofer and a has been.

"We need a miracle to win the title"

Do you think that Fergie would say that? If Moyes said it, he'd be pilloried.

Van Gaal's glory days were a long time ago. He was sacked by Bayern Munich. Is that what we aspire to? To be managed by a guy who was deemed substandard by Bayern Munich.

But no. Let's all hold hands and post funny pictures of "The Iron Tulip".

Not giving the job to Mourinho will go down in history as one of the terrible decisions.

I think United fans need to drop this stuff about what would have happened if Moyes said x or y..

Moyes was second guessed all over the shop because he had no right to be in the United job. Nothing about his career justified his appointment and during his time at United, he done little or nothing to prove his doubters wrong.

Van Gaal on the other hand is a proven winner throughout the majority of his career. He is exactly the calibre of manager that United should be appointing. His wealth of experience and his proven ability to deliver does mean though that he is going to fairly frank about certain realities.

Headshot

Headshot wrote: »

Di Maria is among the top 5 players in the world. You also have to consider the final fee will all depend all trophies/success. 75m most likely be a bargain price in the years to come

Top 5 in the world? They should really keep him so?

If any other club was paying this cash for him you'd say it was over priced imo

Rayne Wooney

Ozil was the best in the world in his position and Madrid let him go, it's a terrible argument

KH25

xtal191 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ManUtdUpdates_/status/503490325785374721

£55 million so.

Headshot

rarnes1 wrote: »

Top 5 in the world? They should really keep him so?

If any other club was paying this cash for him you'd say it was over priced imo

Tell that to Perez.

You dont know what I would say...

OwaynOTT

OwaynOTT wrote: »

If Utd do sign DiMaria, I can see him being a great signing for the club and there will be attacking options that any club would drool over.
Priority should be getting back into top 4 and as high as possible and I think DiMaria can be a great help here.
Liverpool showed last year that a great attack can make up for deficiencies elsewhere, as long as you out score the opposition. And with DiMaria, Rooney, Mata, Van Persie and the others pitching in, I can see Utd doing very well.

The problem we still have is formation and starting 11 and what is the prefered. Then giving the team time to adjust to that formation and tactics. I can't see the 3-5-2 working now even though it produced results at pre-season but that means snot.

LostBoy101

Madrid always make way for players who had their best season at the club like Ozil, Sneijner and now Di Maria.

twam2008

Barcelona let Fabregas go also. Madrid and Barca distort reality because they can attract far too much top class talent.

jesus_thats_gre

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Lallana Markovic and Di Maria play in similar positions, two went for a combined 40 million while one who has been top class in champions league and a World Cup is apparently going for 55 million, I'd rather spend 55 on one than 40 on the other two

I think you'll find about 100% of United fans agree that Di Maria won't solve the CM and defender issue

All fair points, would certainly prefer DiMaria over over those two - on the surface anyway.

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Ozil was the best in the world in his position and Madrid let him go, it's a terrible argument

They haven't been proven too far wrong so far with that transfer tbh

KH25

rarnes1 wrote: »

They haven't been proven too far wrong so far with that transfer tbh

Yeah I really thought he would be incredible for Arsenal.

Mongo

If we sign Di Maria Van Gaal has to switch to a 4-2-3-1 to accomodate all our attacking options. It would be like Chelsea's system. Herrera alongside a strong DM playing deep with Mata, Di Maria and Rooney playing just off RVP. I don't see any other way?

Lucas Hood

rarnes1 wrote: »

They haven't been proven too far wrong so far with that transfer tbh

Wenger playing him wide left isn't going to help.

ShaneU

https://twitter.com/AlexShawESPN/status/503495724412469248

Headshot

Headshot wrote: »

Tell that to Perez.

You dont know what I would say...

Fair enough.

rob316

Buddy Holly wrote: »

I'd agree with you Larry to a certain extent.

Very worried about the direction the club is taking. Seems to be just spend, spend spend.

Well sometimes spending big isn't always the answer. Very few of our most expensive players have worked out. We seem to be paying over the odds for every player we sign.

Would love to know what Fergie and Gill think about the situation.

Because ye have a guy in Ed Woodward going around saying we have loads of money and we will break the transfer record for the right player.
Sure it helps appease the transfer muppets but he is incredibly naieve and naturally clubs are going to squeeze ever penny from United.

dahat

Sh1t is getting real, he is really coming to Utd.