Irish families to take in Iraqi families

walshb

carpejugulum wrote: »

The West created fundamentalist Islam?

Iphones for people on the dole here, beheadings for children in the third world!

So why stop at taking in a "few" Iraqis. Why not adopt the whole third world?

If that is how these countries run and govern themselves that is their business, and I guess, their right!

K-9

walshb wrote: »

So why stop at taking in a "few" Iraqis. Why not adopt the whole third world?

Errrr, maybe we should! Seriously, it's a small number of families. It isn't going to lead to the flood gates being opened or anything like that. I know there's a wider immigration debate but I don't see how it relates to a humanitarian gesture like this.

walshb

K-9 wrote: »

Errrr, maybe we should! Seriously, it's a small number of families. It isn't going to lead to the flood gates being opened or anything like that. I know there's a wider immigration debate but I don't see how it relates to a humanitarian gesture like this.

Fair enough. I just think that maybe these families are being displaced a little too much here.

sin_city

Nodin wrote: »

You seem to be factually incorrect there.

Why are you conflating asylum and imperialism?

Nope man, you just misunderstood...probably like how you misunderstood labelling the whole nation of Japan racist for not taking refugees

Nodin

sin_city wrote: »

Nope man, you just misunderstood...probably like how you misunderstood labelling the whole nation of Japan racist for not taking refugees

No, you compared granting asylum with imperialism.


There is a strong streak of racism in Japanese society. That's a fact.

sin_city

Nodin wrote: »

No, you compared granting asylum with imperialism.


There is a strong streak of racism in Japanese society. That's a fact.

I compared China 100 years ago closing itself from foreigners like Japan does today.

Just because you say "That's a fact"...that doesn't actually make it a fact...I mean, that type of debating and arguing may work for you in places but it's not a way to win an argument.

Anyway, I hope Ireland doesn't take in anyone from Iraq.

Nodin

sin_city wrote: »

I compared China 100 years ago closing itself from foreigners like Japan does today.

..............................

Here's what you stated

China resisted western imperialism attempt just over 100 years ago.


Africa did not and the scramble for Africa took place.

Needless to say,
Chinese culture is still in tact while now in parts of Africa, as what happened
in Ireland the native languages are starting to lose relevance.

A - Africa (which is a continent, not a country) resisted Western Imperialism, thought not as a body.

B- You start to imply that because (as you claim) Africa did not resist Western Imperialism, it lost its culture.

C - You raised both of these examples of Imperialism and the example of culture loss in a thread about Ireland giving asylum to Iraqis.

You are therefore conflating asylum and imperialism.

sin_city

You don't get the point I made at all. Not going to try to explain AGAIN.

You're saying the whole nation of Japan is being racist for not taking in my refugees........I disagree with that and I think we'd be better off considering how broke we are not to take in refugees.

Right?

Nodin

sin_city wrote: »

You don't get the point I made at all. Not going to try to explain AGAIN.

You're saying the whole nation of Japan is being racist for not taking in my refugees........I disagree with that and I think we'd be better off considering how broke we are not to take in refugees.

Not what I said.

Albania has taken in Syrians. I don't see that we're so broke we can't taken in some Iraqis.

sin_city

Nodin wrote: »

Not what I said.

Albania has taken in Syrians. I don't see that we're so broke we can't taken in some Iraqis.

Albania is a mostly muslim country.

Their debt to GDP is half of what ours is.

Nodin

sin_city wrote: »

Albania is a mostly muslim country.

Their debt to GDP is half of what ours is.

Their GDP is 30 Billion. Ours is 162 Billion

O. so its just naked sectarianism then?

rustyzip

5 pages of reply and no advice as to who to go to for further info!

comongethappy

rustyzip wrote: »

5 pages of reply and no advice as to who to go to for further info!

The dept of foreign affairs would probably be a good starting point should any repatriation occur.

AlekSmart

rustyzip wrote: »

5 pages of reply and no advice as to who to go to for further info!

Before embarking upon any enquiries it might be worthwhile pausing in order to allow a very fluid situation to stabilize.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/ireland-will-take-in-families-fleeing-catastrophe-in-iraq-30507455.html

Reading through the article,I was struck by a somewhat commonsense tone,which might indicate that somebody has put some consideration into the thinking behind the "proposal".

The spokesman for the department said one possibility under consideration is a similar system to that currently used to relocate Syrian refugees.

Syrians already living in Ireland are allowed to apply for vulnerable, close family members to join them on a temporary basis. In the past, refugees arriving under similar programmes would bypass the controversial direct-provision system - the first port of call for many refugees in Ireland.

Under direct provision, asylum seekers are not allowed to work, but they do receive bed and board and a weekly payment of €19.10 per adult and €9.60 per child. In the case of Syrian refugees, relatives here are required to look after the newcomers who will be allowed to work on arrival.

That sounds,to me,like a well structured response,maintaining a hugely important Familial structure,whilst also allowing for the individuals concerned to seek employment.

However,I fear that this form of response fails to impress those who see these tragedies as "opportunities" for Ireland to make its name,or to take the lead on embracing refugees from whatever corner of the world they come.

Properly funded and administered,our systems can offer very real hope to a small number of people,something which I believe,is worth promoting over and above the big-number policies so stridently demanded across sections of the media.

sin_city

Nodin wrote: »

Their GDP is 30 Billion. Ours is 162 Billion

O. so its just naked sectarianism then?

This from the person that labels every Japanese person a racist....please

Nodin

sin_city wrote: »

This from the person that labels every Japanese person a racist....please

....where did I do so?

Even if I did, does that make the figures automatically incorrect? Whats the connection?

walshb

I better not make out that we Irish could just be as racist as Japanese people. I'd have to go get some source.

yellowlabrador

FifaPlaya wrote: »

Where you getting all this? From the media?

You clearly dont know how peaceful iraq was before the us army invaded. Did saddam hussein kill a million people? Guess not it was the us army.

Maybe you need to check the media yourself. I was in Bagdad in 1980, and believe me, the rockets were flying. It was quite a violent war. There were many deaths and devastation, followed by a crackdown on the local population. Part of the reason for the invasion of Kuwait was that Saddam thought that the US would let him, as they'd been arming him in his war against Iran. A lot of politics in the Middle East is based on'the enemy of my enemy' basis and leads to quite strange alliances.

AlekSmart

yellowlabrador wrote: »

Part of the reason for the invasion of Kuwait was that Saddam thought that the US would let him, as they'd been arming him in his war against Iran. A lot of politics in the Middle East is based on'the enemy of my enemy' basis and leads to quite strange alliances.

A VERY valid point,yet one which appears to be totally ignored/misunderstood by successive and varied Western leaning interventionists ?

Nodin

walshb wrote: »

I better not make out that we Irish could just be as racist as Japaneses people. I'd have to go get some source.

Yes, you would. That's how we try to separate, in our own weak way, fact from fiction.

walshb

Yes, because copy and paste wikipedia links prove the Japanese are a bunch of racists! There are racists in all countries. Impossible to tell which nation is the most racist. To do so one would have to have the ability to become each and every person in said country and then find out if that person was a racist. Then try and separate each person's view of what defines a racist.

Pro Hoc Vice

rustyzip wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/ireland-will-take-in-families-fleeing-catastrophe-in-iraq-30507455.html

Does anyone know who to contact re this link?
I know lots of people with empty homes as kids gone to college etc that would love to help.

It does not really work that way. If a person is granted status before entry to ireland then the state will provide housing, traning and income to help the person to become a productive member of society. If a person comes to ireland to seek Asylum then they will be housed under the direct provision scheme while the application is pending.

daUbiq

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

You obviously don't know what you are talking about.

Iraq invaded Iran via air and land on 22 September 1980 and the resulting war lasted until 20 August 1988.

Iraq invaded Kuwait on 2 August 1990 and an US led coalition of Western and Arab states ejected the Iraqis before the conflict came to an end in 28 February 1991.

Iraq had massive stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons and was seeking nuclear arms for many years prior to 1991 and UN inspectors were authorized to investigate and destroy them.

Saddam ignored repeated UN resolutions and in 2003 all the major world powers were convinced Saddam still possessed them but this could not be verified unless inspectors were admitted.

When Hans Blix and his team were finally let in under threat of force, Saddam and his regime continued to hold up and interfere in inspections. Hans Blix briefed the UN of this fact.

UN resolution 1441 authorize military force to be used if Iraq did not co-operate. Iraq did not co-operate but China and Russia and France opposed military force. The US ignored them and went ahead and overthrew Saddam.

The US introduced a constitution which was overwhelmingly accepted by Iraqi voters and introduced a democratic local government system, national parliament, Prime Minister and President all of whom have since been repeated elected by millions of Iraqis. Independent courts sentenced Saddam and his henchmen for crimes against humanity.

While US forces were pacifying Iraq they and the Iraqi security forces and also hundreds of thousands of Iraqis were attacked and killed by Islamist terrorists.

Bush warned that US military commitment in Iraq would last decades just as the US were committed to Japan and Germany post WW2 and oversaw their transition to democracy and freedom. He predicted that if troops were withdrawn too soon the country would be taken over by Islamic terrorists.

Obama riding a wave of cynicism and anti-war sentiment entered the White House promising a withdrawal from Iraq.

He withdrew the troops and since then Iraq has collapsed as Islamists have taken over just as Bush predicted.

This mess was created by Saddam who launched delusion wars of conquest and by Islamist who are determined to create an Islamic Caliphate and by the utterly irresponsible decision of Obama to wash his hands of the country and abandon the Iraqi people to terrorists.

You should read the Baghdad Year Zero Article on the information clearing House website to see the real reason for the yank warmongers invasion... Its a long article and well written. Unfortunately I cannot post a link.

Nodin

walshb wrote: »

Yes, because copy and paste wikipedia links prove the Japanese are a bunch of racists! There are racists in all countries. Impossible to tell which nation is the most racist. To do so one would have to have the ability to become each and every person in said country and then find out if that person was a racist. Then try and separate each person's view of what defines a racist.

Not sure who that all refers to, as it doesn't relate to what I pointed out at all.

Will you take the UN's word for it?
2005 - "An independent investigator for the UN says racism in Japan is deep and profound, and the government does not recognise the depth of the problem."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4671687.stm

April 2010 – Migrants in Japan face discrimination, exploitation and other forms of mistreatment, an independent United Nations human rights expert said, urging the Japanese Government to strengthen their protection.
“They [migrants] still face a range of challenges, including racism and discrimination, exploitation, a tendency by the judiciary and police to ignore their rights, and the overall lack of a comprehensive immigration policy that incorporates human rights protection,” said Jorge A. Bustamante, UN Special Rapporteur on the human rights of migrants, at the end of a nine-day visit to Japan on Wednesday.
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=34263#.U_iuLJNOPDA

None of this says everyone in Japan is a racist.

AlekSmart

Nodin wrote: »

Not sure who that all refers to, as it doesn't relate to what I pointed out at all.

Will you take the UN's word for it?
2005 - "An independent investigator for the UN says racism in Japan is deep and profound, and the government does not recognise the depth of the problem."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4671687.stm

April 2010 – Migrants in Japan face discrimination, exploitation and other forms of mistreatment, an independent United Nations human rights expert said, urging the Japanese Government to strengthen their protection.
“They [migrants] still face a range of challenges, including racism and discrimination, exploitation, a tendency by the judiciary and police to ignore their rights, and the overall lack of a comprehensive immigration policy that incorporates human rights protection,” said Jorge A. Bustamante, UN Special Rapporteur on the human rights of migrants, at the end of a nine-day visit to Japan on Wednesday.
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=34263#.U_iuLJNOPDA

None of this says everyone in Japan is a racist.

It sure does'nt say that,however we managed to get all Nippon'd in relation to thread has kinda passed over my head.

Mind you,one of the UN's Independent Rapporteur's Doudou Diene certainly spread himself around during his tenure....

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/06/04/doudou-diene-can-go-home-now/

Nice little bit here.....

While the deadly racist and xenophobic fires still smoldered in South Africa’s anti-immigrant unrest, only a week later Mr. Diene was in Los Angeles visiting a job center, asking questions about racism of immigrant workers, presumably some of whom were illegal.

Diene wanted to know if the U.S. employers were racist. A group of workers who had traveled across country said yes, employers often asked the race of workers.

But as Lisa Richardson of The Los Angeles Times reported they also said “there is less racism but employers are miserly.”

Not racist but cheap.

But not always.

Richardson quoted a worker named Diego telling Diene, "The Irish? People of Irish descent? Very strict, very disciplined, very racist; but they pay you very well. Nineteen dollars an hour." (Please note, the workers themselves described their employers in racist terms.)

Interesting to note that Doudou apparently asked about Irish employers vis a vis "Racism",with no mention as to whether he mentioned Japanese as well ?

Well done Doudou (and Diego),for managing to add greatly to the Gaiety of Nations many years later

Nodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

It sure does'nt say that,however we managed to get all Nippon'd in relation to thread has kinda passed over my head.
.............

Post 25.

So you've nothing to add with regard to either the Japanese sidetrack, or the topic?

AlekSmart

Nodin wrote: »

Post 25.

So you've nothing to add with regard to either the Japanese sidetrack, or the topic?

All in good time,once I've seperated the Racist Japanese from the "Irish Families to take-in Iraqi Families" thread title.

Stand-By

rgossip30

Considering the abuse of the asylum system and the problems it creates if there was a referendum, what would be the result. The alternative is to take in refugees on a temporary basis provided by the UNHCR.