We're number 5, we're number 5!!

Hanley

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2722815/Daily-calorie-intake-countries-world-revealed-surprise-U-S-tops-list-3-770.html

Apparently 3,500+ is the Irish daily kcal intake on average.

That's 50% over WADA recommended amount.

Discuss.

cmyk

Hanley wrote: »

Discuss.

Just tells us what we already know really? An overconsumption of calories is making us fat and unhealthy.

Carbo-phobes will argue all those extra calories are coming from carbohydrate and fat-phobes, fats. I'm pretty sure there's been studies in the states into the ratios though, and iirc it's pretty even across macros.

deadlybuzzman

I remember when I was a kid hearing a study (a flawed one no doubt) stating that Ireland had the highest calorie intake of any country but that as so many people working in manual jobs we didn't have a particularly high obesity rate.
Oh how times have changed.

Meh, it's pretty obvious in many circles that I move in that portion control, particularly when it comes to bread/spuds is a big issue. The rate that Ireland has gotten fatter also means a somewhat warped perception of what "skinny" actually means to some of those of a certain age.

Zamboni

There is no hope for them. Seriously.
Irish people think all medical / health issues are some form of negative pot luck lottery.
There is almost zero connection between sleep/diet/exercise/mental and health issues in the Irish psyche.

They are too busy gorging on food and gorging on choice online content
such as..

http://www.evoke.ie/the-clay-diet-latest-slimming-detox-craze-sweeping-hollywood/

http://www.her.ie/life/beetroot-this-weeks-detox-superfood-to-add-to-your-shopping-list/

They are beyond help at any serious scale - you might have some luck rehabilitating a handful of positive disciples but on a macro level you'd want some serious famine or natural disaster.

The government agencies aren't worth a boll0x - we all know that from the superb safefood thread from yonder.

I get sh1t off them whilst I'm eating broccolli and chicken whilst they're plowing into King crisps, pot noodle and a star bar. (sample from a pregnant colleague)

Fvck 'em.
All my sympathy and empathy has reluctantly been worn down over the years to zero.

I'm going to sit back and watch my shares in companies providing oversize medical equipment rocket :-)

[/rant]

Zamboni

Zamboni wrote: »

The government agencies aren't worth a boll0x - we all know that from the superb safefood thread from yonder.

As I've said before, the effectiveness of information is key. The food pyramid has failed and a repackaging of the fairly basic information (I don't even think tweaking the information is important) is needed.

Rough Sleeper

WHO I think you mean? WADA are the guys who sorta kinda not really try to catch people out for doping.

Even given our growing weight problem, something seems very, very off about about this, doesn't it? Imma look into it.

Zamboni

Rough Sleeper wrote: »

WHO I think you mean? WADA are the guys who sorta kinda not really try to catch people out for doping.

We're probably over their recommended intake too.
I'm looking at you Athletics Ireland o_O

Mellor

Rough Sleeper wrote: »

Even given our growing weight problem, something seems very, very off about about this, doesn't it? Imma look into it.

What seems off about an average intake of 3,500 kcal and a growing weight problem? The two go hand in hand.

Dermighty

Zamboni wrote: »

There is no hope for them. Seriously.
Irish people think all medical / health issues are some form of negative pot luck lottery.
There is almost zero connection between sleep/diet/exercise/mental and health issues in the Irish psyche.

They are too busy gorging on food and gorging on choice online content
such as..

http://www.evoke.ie/the-clay-diet-latest-slimming-detox-craze-sweeping-hollywood/

http://www.her.ie/life/beetroot-this-weeks-detox-superfood-to-add-to-your-shopping-list/

+1

Most of the food I buy doesn't come in a packet.

Mellor

Dermighty wrote: »

Most of the food I buy doesn't come in a packet.

Most of the carrots I buy are orange.














I've a feeling you and I aren't the issue here.

Remmy

Agreed on portion control on carbs like bread and potatoes being a big issue. I also think people greatly overestimate their calorie expenditure when doing daily activities, i.e I went for a 20 min stroll so I can eat this plate of spuds with 4 tablespoons of butter and craploads of salt. Also anyone from a rural background hear the phrase " a grand healthy sized chap" when someone is pretty much obese but tall and blocky?

cletus van damme

always the same - ireland being the nearly men.

just like the summer olympics - always near the top but lacking the "je ne sais quoi" to clinch the gold.

cletus van damme

Remmy wrote: »

Agreed on portion control on carbs like bread and potatoes being a big issue. I also think people greatly overestimate their calorie expenditure when doing daily activities, i.e I went for a 20 min stroll so I can eat this plate of spuds with 4 tablespoons of butter and craploads of salt. Also anyone from a rural background hear the phrase " a grand healthy sized chap" when someone is pretty much obese but tall and blocky?

blaming spuds and butter is horse****.
Ireland has only a recent obseity problem - mountains of spuds and butter have been a stable for a lot longer.
I know from older family living in good health and fitness into their 90s that mountains of spuds/bread/butter (often demonised) have no ill effects.
The overall calorie intake is a problem - but foods like spuds are not.

There is no one problem / solution.
The problem is multi layered and that's why the solution is hard.

I blame many things but essentially it boils down to lifestyle choices.
But one bug bear of mine that is a factor (i believe) and isn't ever mentioned is the drive for cheap food .
and the desire to eat it.

nice_guy80

cletus van damme wrote: »

blaming spuds and butter is horse****.
Ireland has only a recent obseity problem - mountains of spuds and butter have been a stable for a lot longer.
I know from older family living in good health and fitness into their 90s that mountains of spuds/bread/butter (often demonised) have no ill effects.
The overall calorie intake is a problem - but foods like spuds are not.

There is no one problem / solution.
The problem is multi layered and that's why the solution is hard.

I blame many things but essentially it boils down to lifestyle choices.
But one bug bear of mine that is a factor (i believe) and isn't ever mentioned is the drive for cheap food .
and the desire to eat it.

coke and white bread.
pizza. crap food.
check out the shopping trolleys next time you are at a supermarket.

Skrynesaver

cletus van damme wrote: »

...
But one bug bear of mine that is a factor (i believe) and isn't ever mentioned is the drive for cheap food .
and the desire to eat it.

The marketing need to make cheap calories palatable with cheap fats and sugars is certainly a factor in the quality of the national diet.

There's a hell of a difference between carrying a sledge, wire, staples and posts around every field, repairing fences and sitting down to mound of spuds as opposed to driving to the office, sitting down, driving home again and sitting down to a mound of spuds... Our live (on average) are more sedentary so we need to modify our diet and maybe get a bit of exercise after/before work if we're in a sedentary role.

nice_guy80

Skrynesaver wrote: »

The marketing need to make cheap calories palatable with cheap fats and sugars is certainly a factor in the quality of the national diet.

There's a hell of a difference between carrying a sledge, wire, staples and posts around every field, repairing fences and sitting down to mound of spuds as opposed to driving to the office, sitting down, driving home again and sitting down to a mound of spuds... Our live (on average) are more sedentary so we need to modify our diet and maybe get a bit of exercise after/before work if we're in a sedentary role.

but sure the table spreads and yoghurts are low fat, the blackcurrant drink is 'sugar free', the bread has added vitamins, special k makes you able to wear a nice red dress.
Where are we going wrong??

cletus van damme

nice_guy80 wrote: »

coke and white bread.
pizza. crap food.
check out the shopping trolleys next time you are at a supermarket.

I'm not allowed shop , i leave a list and my missus does it.
But i take your point.

Skrynesaver wrote: »

The marketing need to make cheap calories palatable with cheap fats and sugars is certainly a factor in the quality of the national diet.

There's a hell of a difference between carrying a sledge, wire, staples and posts around every field, repairing fences and sitting down to mound of spuds as opposed to driving to the office, sitting down, driving home again and sitting down to a mound of spuds... Our live (on average) are more sedentary so we need to modify our diet and maybe get a bit of exercise after/before work if we're in a sedentary role.

I know what you are saying - however I work in an office at the moment , big multi national and my trademen friends/acquainances are fatter than most of the 1000's in my office block.
Funnily walking through dublin early morning most of the formally dressed people are in farily decent nick - it is something I do notice.

It's more than one issue but I'd stand over the cheap food as a primarily culprit.

papu

cletus van damme wrote: »

It's more than one issue but I'd stand over the cheap food as a primarily culprit.

Tesco, Aldi, Lidl, etc do very cheap Veg.

The problem is very cheap $hite food.

nice_guy80

cletus van damme wrote: »

I'm not allowed shop , i leave a list and my missus does it.
But i take your point.




I know what you are saying - however I work in an office at the moment , big multi national and my trademen friends/acquainances are fatter than most of the 1000's in my office block.
Funnily walking through dublin early morning most of the formally dressed people are in farily decent nick - it is something I do notice.

It's more than one issue but I'd stand over the cheap food as a primarily culprit.

leave a list and she does it? You have it cushty...

seriously though, a bit of time working on a till in a supermarket or even packing the bags for charity would open your eyes to amount of crap people buy.

rubadub

I'd be interested in how they got the figures. wiki have us at 13

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_food_energy_intake

and they also mention

However the actual food consumption may be lower than the quantity shown as food availability depending on the magnitude of wastage and losses of food in the household, e.g. during storage, in preparation and cooking, as plate-waste or quantities fed to domestic animals and pets, thrown or given away

We probably have a lot higher alcohol intake than other countries and it is said not to cause weight gain like food does in heavy drinkers. I certainly find this myself, if 3500kcal of excess calories did cause 1lb weight gain I wouldn't be able to walk.

Good to see them mention restaurant portions being huge, and how gym machines overestimate calorie usage.

Sala

nice_guy80 wrote: »

leave a list and she does it? You have it cushty...

seriously though, a bit of time working on a till in a supermarket or even packing the bags for charity would open your eyes to amount of crap people buy.

I saw a dad with two kids the other day in Tesco and I hope they were having a party as there was at least 8 2ltr bottles of fizzy drink and 6 pizzas in his trolley, among other things, but no fruit or veg at all that I could see.

How is 200 cals burned in 2.5 minutes jumping jacks or running up and down stairs??

Remmy

cletus van damme wrote: »

blaming spuds and butter is horse****.
Ireland has only a recent obseity problem - mountains of spuds and butter have been a stable for a lot longer.
I know from older family living in good health and fitness into their 90s that mountains of spuds/bread/butter (often demonised) have no ill effects.
The overall calorie intake is a problem - but foods like spuds are not.

There is no one problem / solution.
The problem is multi layered and that's why the solution is hard.

I blame many things but essentially it boils down to lifestyle choices.
But one bug bear of mine that is a factor (i believe) and isn't ever mentioned is the drive for cheap food .
and the desire to eat it.

I wasn't really talking about the health effects of eating carb sources with lots of butter but rather the fact that In my experience the people eating these kind of things didn't earn them by doing physical activity to need all those calories and therefore they get fat.

I also can remember mates of mine from secondary school having massive fry ups etc every morning and hearty meals at lunch and dinner with boat loads of butter etc. They were in great shape because of sports and farmwork. Imo I don't think that is a good way to eat if someones physical activity level is very low which I also see.

cletus van damme

papu wrote: »

Tesco, Aldi, Lidl, etc do very cheap Veg.

The problem is very cheap $hite food.

you are right but I think you are being purposely obtuse.

although I'm not overly knowledgeable on food science I'd wager that a blanket "fruit/veg being great for you" statement isnt't true either and farming/production methods have some bearing on the nutrition.

ford2600

rubadub wrote: »

We probably have a lot higher alcohol intake than other countries and it is said not to cause weight gain like food does in heavy drinkers. I certainly find this myself, if 3500kcal of excess calories did cause 1lb weight gain I wouldn't be able to walk.

How come you don't get burned at stake on here for that heresy?

nice_guy80

ford2600 wrote: »

How come you don't get burned at stake on here for that heresy?

Kids don't drink alcohol though.
so whats happening there?

ford2600

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Kids don't drink alcohol though.
so whats happening there?

It was a joke!

papu

cletus van damme wrote: »

you are right but I think you are being purposely obtuse.

although I'm not overly knowledgeable on food science I'd wager that a blanket "fruit/veg being great for you" statement isnt't true either and farming/production methods have some bearing on the nutrition.

My point was that Fruit and Veg > Eurosaver Menu.
The problem really is people making the wrong choices , and whats worse are parents making the wrong choices for their children , I'm sure we're top10 for childhood obesity too.

Ralphdejones

As the celtic tiger and property pyramid scheme fiasco proved, Irish people are among the greediest on the planet, it seems to be in our DNA.

Ralphdejones

Food has become too cheap relatively speaking, especially junk foods.
People on low incomes can afford to fill their house with food and eat all day if they so wish, its one of the few things they can indulge in. This was never the way until recent years.

Junk type foods should be more heavily taxed, and fresh locally produced healthy foods should be better supported.

Zamboni

nice_guy80 wrote: »

coke and white bread.
pizza. crap food.
check out the shopping trolleys next time you are at a supermarket.

Now you're talking.
I'm sick to death of people telling me they eat healthy and lots of vegetables blah, blah, blah.
Spend an hour looking at the checkout counters in any supermarket in the country - that's the truth.

Supermarkets have a ratio of about 5 processed food aisles for every one fresh unadulterated produce.

Rough Sleeper

rubadub wrote: »

I'd be interested in how they got the figures. wiki have us at 13

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_food_energy_intake

and they also mention


We probably have a lot higher alcohol intake than other countries and it is said not to cause weight gain like food does in heavy drinkers. I certainly find this myself, if 3500kcal of excess calories did cause 1lb weight gain I wouldn't be able to walk.

Good to see them mention restaurant portions being huge, and how gym machines overestimate calorie usage.

It's from the WHO.

http://www.who.int/nutrition/topics/3_foodconsumption/en/

It's the same source as used in the Wiki article - the FAO - and the methodology is the same, ie. food available for consumption rather than food consumed.

the terms “food consumption” or “food intake” should be read as “food available for consumption”.

So yeah, given the amount of food that ends up as waste rather than adipose tissue, with fats and cooking oils being the ones that spring immediately to mind, the figures are a bit high. Given the fact that 50% of the population is female and a considerable amount fit into the over 65 bracket, I'd say if we were actually consuming an average of 3500+ kcal per person, we'd have somewhere near majority obesity in the country. We have a weight problem for sure, but this is a typical example of the media either misrepresenting or misunderstanding the data.

EDIT: to give a bit of perspective, think of how much food goes into the brown/organic waste bin over the course of a month.

Mellor

Rough Sleeper wrote: »

It's the same source as used in the Wiki article - the FAO - and the methodology is the same, ie. food available for consumption rather than food consumed.

EDIT: to give a bit of perspective, think of how much food goes into the brown/organic waste bin over the course of a month.

I'd assume that the same less than perfect methodology applies to all countries listed.
So the fact we're 5th this holds up. If people think of America as a nation if iver eaters. The chart gives us a relative measure as eating almost as much compared to the states.

cloudatlas

I'm surprised about Israel where the chick pea is king. Well of course Ireland wouldn't be too far away from Britain as we have the same supermarkets. Can I blame the Brits a wee bit?

nice_guy80

proper food nutrition is still not taught in most schools.
primary school curriculum follows the flawed food pyramid model

I think food nutrition and cooking should be mandatory in secondary schools, if only for one term.

cletus van damme

cletus van damme wrote: »

blaming spuds and butter is horse****.
Ireland has only a recent obseity problem - mountains of spuds and butter have been a stable for a lot longer.
I know from older family living in good health and fitness into their 90s that mountains of spuds/bread/butter (often demonised) have no ill effects.
The overall calorie intake is a problem - but foods like spuds are not.

If people followed recommended servings of food they "prepare" then they almost certainly wouldn't be obese, maybe a bit pudgy. When someone has 125g of rice with their dinner or a massive plateful of pasta or spuds making up all of the carbs they should have in a day even according to the food pyramid then that's a problem.
There's also a perception among older people that they seem to have gotten from certain weight-loss companies about spuds that "it's what you put on them that makes you put on weight". Yup, that knob of butter is grand, the 5 huge spuds are grand.

nice_guy80

nice_guy80 wrote: »

proper food nutrition is still not taught in most schools.
primary school curriculum follows the flawed food pyramid model

I think food nutrition and cooking should be mandatory in secondary schools, if only for one term.

The food pyramid is fine in one way, but only if people actually followed the serving sizes. 25g of uncooked rice is a portion? Yeah, ok!

Dexters16

Go into any supermarket and the first things you will find on offer are soft drinks, chocolate and processed crap.

The temptation is already there. Something on offer just seals the deal.

MD1990

Don't understand why so many ppl seem to always have a high carboydrate for dinner either Potatoes,Pasta or Rice.
I usually just have some Salmon with Brocculli & some peppers afterwards.

Mellor

Dexters16 wrote: »

Go into any supermarket and the first things you will find on offer are soft drinks, chocolate and processed crap.

The temptation is already there. Something on offer just seals the deal.

Not really.
Meat, fruit and veg have weekly specials too.
Items on the shekels are driven my customers purchases, not the other way around.

Ralphdejones

MD1990 wrote: »

.
I usually just have some Salmon with Brocculli & some peppers afterwards.

Because to most people, although that would be a superior choice from a health point of view, it would also be dull tasteless bland and unfilling

LuckyLloyd

MD1990 wrote: »

Don't understand why so many ppl seem to always have a high carboydrate for dinner either Potatoes,Pasta or Rice.
I usually just have some Salmon with Brocculli & some peppers afterwards.

'Don't understand'? While we don't all agree on this forum about the optimal approach to exercise and nutrition, the fact is we're all here talking about it and interested in it to some degree or another. A lack of empathy or interest in understanding why people act the way they do will help no-one.

As it is, people can't cook. The break of the 'traditional' role of the woman in society (a hugely positive thing obv) means there isn't a stay at home female from her early / mid twenties focussing on the procurement and preparation of three square a day. We are a hard working and productive work force relative to the EU average. When all that is supplanted by the official state position on nutrition being the food pyramid it shouldn't be at all difficult to understand why people act as they do.

What I'd love to see is the secondary school curriculum adding in a basic health and nutrition element. Teach kids in school:

- a little about food types;
- the science of how the body used food and how we gain weight;
- practical food procurement;
- practical food preparation;
- the benefits of exercise;
- a little about different types of exercise and their effects;

Do that, and within two generations we'd be one of the healthier nations on the planet. But it will never happen. Religious / farming / parent / pharmaceutical / food production / etc lobby groups would never allow it.

Bruno26

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

'Don't understand'? While we don't all agree on this forum about the optimal approach to exercise and nutrition, the fact is we're all here talking about it and interested in it to some degree or another. A lack of empathy or interest in understanding why people act the way they do will help no-one.

As it is, people can't cook. The break of the 'traditional' role of the woman in society (a hugely positive thing obv) means there isn't a stay at home female from her early / mid twenties focussing on the procurement and preparation of three square a day. We are a hard working and productive work force relative to the EU average. When all that is supplanted by the official state position on nutrition being the food pyramid it shouldn't be at all difficult to understand why people act as they do.

What I'd love to see is the secondary school curriculum adding in a basic health and nutrition element. Teach kids in school:

- a little about food types;
- the science of how the body used food and how we gain weight;
- practical food procurement;
- practical food preparation;
- the benefits of exercise;
- a little about different types of exercise and their effects;

Do that, and within two generations we'd be one of the healthier nations on the planet. But it will never happen. Religious / farming / parent / pharmaceutical / food production / etc lobby groups would never allow it.

I agree. However you can teach it all you want but if it's not being implemented at home then it will make little difference. All schools should have proper catering facilities also.

Ralphdejones

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Do that, and within two generations we'd be one of the healthier nations on the planet. But it will never happen. Religious / farming / parent / pharmaceutical / food production / etc lobby groups would never allow it.

Other than the pharmaceutical one, can you explain your prejudice as to why each of these other groups in Ireland would not allow it, as you claim ?

radia

No mixed messages there...

MD1990

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

'Don't understand'? While we don't all agree on this forum about the optimal approach to exercise and nutrition, the fact is we're all here talking about it and interested in it to some degree or another. A lack of empathy or interest in understanding why people act the way they do will help no-one.

As it is, people can't cook. The break of the 'traditional' role of the woman in society (a hugely positive thing obv) means there isn't a stay at home female from her early / mid twenties focussing on the procurement and preparation of three square a day. We are a hard working and productive work force relative to the EU average. When all that is supplanted by the official state position on nutrition being the food pyramid it shouldn't be at all difficult to understand why people act as they do.

What I'd love to see is the secondary school curriculum adding in a basic health and nutrition element. Teach kids in school:

- a little about food types;
- the science of how the body used food and how we gain weight;
- practical food procurement;
- practical food preparation;
- the benefits of exercise;
- a little about different types of exercise and their effects;

Do that, and within two generations we'd be one of the healthier nations on the planet. But it will never happen. Religious / farming / parent / pharmaceutical / food production / etc lobby groups would never allow it.

Hard to have too much empathy if some people who are unhappy with there weight won't change there diet for the better. Some ppl need less empathy & just need to be told how to improve there diet. I know that may seem harsh but it isn't that hard to do if u really want to ne healthier.

doctorwhogirl

I have no doubt that those figures are accurate but I still think there are signs of change. A lot more people are becoming more and more aware of good nutrition. I think it's going side by side with the increase in people running etc... They start engaging in fitness and then the queries about nutrition follow.

Obviously, it's a slow road but I feel there's a greater awareness than there was 4/5 years ago. I even know from friends who wouldnt have cared/didn't know/ didn't bother speaking about processed food and salt content etc...!

Alf Veedersane

MD1990 wrote: »

Hard to have too much empathy if some people who are unhappy with there weight won't change there diet for the better. Some ppl need less empathy & just need to be told how to improve there diet. I know that may seem harsh but it isn't that hard to do if u really want to ne healthier.

I'm all for educating people on what they should eat but saying "eat salmon and broccoli instead of pasta/rice/potatoes" isn't the answer. Aside from anything else, there isn't anything unhealthy about potatoes, rice or pasta per se.

Bit of knowledge of portion sizes as well as food quality would go a long way.

Zamboni

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'm all for educating people on what they should eat but saying "eat salmon and broccoli instead of pasta/rice/potatoes" isn't the answer. Aside from anything else, there isn't anything unhealthy about potatoes, rice or pasta per se.

Bit of knowledge of portion sizes as well as food quality would go a long way.

I had the same attitude as you and LuckyLlyod ten years ago because normal human empathy (hopefully) is the default start point.
And that is indeed the way people are dealt with by the media, doctors, state agencies.
Result: Over that decade obesity has further rocketed (almost exponentially if I remember the data)
Humans are frail creatures with little self discipline to control their primitive biological urges. They need to be directed.
At the moment we are on a clear trajectory towards monumental state health costs, ballooning dependent individuals, children with advanced adult levels of diseases of civilisation.
I, for one, am not dancing around this issue anymore.

Alf Veedersane

Zamboni wrote: »

I had the same attitude as you and LuckyLlyod ten years ago because normal human empathy (hopefully) is the default start point.
And that is indeed the way people are dealt with by the media, doctors, state agencies.
Result: Over that decade obesity has further rocketed (almost exponentially if I remember the data)
Humans are frail creatures with little self discipline to control their primitive biological urges. They need to be directed.
At the moment we are on a clear trajectory towards monumental state health costs, ballooning dependent individuals, children with advanced adult levels of diseases of civilisation.
I, for one, am not dancing around this issue anymore.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

Saying "Eat salmon and brocccoli instead of potatoes/rice/pasta" isn't a trategy that is going to work.

Teaching people why the likes of salmon and broccoli would be better choices or what a portion size is if they want to have potatoes/rice/pasta is much more likely to work.

Bruno26

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'm all for educating people on what they should eat but saying "eat salmon and broccoli instead of pasta/rice/potatoes" isn't the answer. Aside from anything else, there isn't anything unhealthy about potatoes, rice or pasta per se.

Bit of knowledge of portion sizes as well as food quality would go a long way.

Portion sizes are great but what happens when you are still hungry after carefully measuring your portions sizes? Do you really think it works? Do you think people are going to stick with it if they are always hungry?