Irish Rail strike days

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

Cuts are being made in the health services that affect everybody from the lowest grades and also patients and those in greatest need who have had their medical cards taken from them, so why should irish rail employees not have to take the same levels of reduction as just about everyone else in the state?

because nobody is taking the exact same reductions. that can't and never will happen. some will take more of a reduction then others.

mickydoomsux

foggy_lad wrote: »

Cuts are being made in the health services that affect everybody from the lowest grades and also patients and those in greatest need who have had their medical cards taken from them, so why should irish rail employees not have to take the same levels of reduction as just about everyone else in the state?

Are you referring to the medical card withdrawals that the government completely chickened out on because it was unpopular?

Hilly Bill

Pipmae wrote: »

I have an IR annual ticket Gormanston to Pearse (and I pay handsomely for the pleasure). I had no intention of travelling by IR on Sunday or Monday last. However I'm almost sure I'll have to take a hit in the next few weeks. It could be a bus fare, petrol to drive to Dublin City & parking, etc. An IR refund on the day won't cover the hit.

I'm going to apply for credit for last Sunday and Monday. Any thoughts? Shoot me now for the dishonesty!

You are entitled to the refund regardless of your intention to travel on them days. There is a link on the taxsaver site to the refund form that you have to fill in.

Pipmae

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You are entitled to the refund regardless of your intention to travel on them days. There is a link on the taxsaver site to the refund form that you have to fill in.

Thanks - I filled it in earlier today.

Hilly Bill

Grandeeod wrote: »

Wrong. You seem like a reasonable person, but I suggest you study the history of CIE and its industrial relations. Management are far from perfect. The shareholder is far from perfect, but staff have consistantly being protected from economic reality and enjoyed very good renumeration for what they do. The lack of trust has been driven by staff that point blank refuse to accept any step back in terms of basic pay. Invariably its drivers and to fully understand the ins and outs of that, you really need to study Irish railway history in general.

For your own sake google a bit, buy a few books, maybe even join the IRRS and avail of their library as it can provide you with more info than just a fantasy playback of history.

Its the future the staff are interested in not the past.

Hilly Bill

JayRoc wrote: »

But it's not mandatory, is it?

So you're complaining about being given the option of GP care for less than three quid a week for you (and again, correct me if I'm wrong here) AND your family?

Most people I know would kill for these perks.

To be honest, I think this strike might be a huge blunder on the part of your unions, because apart from anything else it's drawn a lot of publicity to a pay and perks package that the vast majority of your customers weren't aware of.
Striking while IR employees are earning a minimum of 700 bills a week (that's according to one of your own guys earlier in this thread) along with a GP care scheme for peanuts and free travel, etc....just makes yee seem ungrateful and petty to most people, I would imagine.

Imagine is the main word there.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Cuts are being made in the health services that affect everybody from the lowest grades and also patients and those in greatest need who have had their medical cards taken from them, so why should irish rail employees not have to take the same levels of reduction as just about everyone else in the state?

So basically you want IR staff to take the hit just because others have?

Grandeeod

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its the future the staff are interested in not the past.

Learn from the past. The future is undecided.

cdebru

foggy_lad wrote: »

Cuts are being made in the health services that affect everybody from the lowest grades and also patients and those in greatest need who have had their medical cards taken from them, so why should irish rail employees not have to take the same levels of reduction as just about everyone else in the state?

Not everyone has taken a reduction, some people have had wage increases, some have had reductions and then had increases. It is completely untrue to suggest just about everyone has had a reduction.

But while we are here there hasn't been a cut in social welfare rates since 2011 and of course a person on social welfare with an adult dependent and 2 kids gets upto €31, 064 per year

€188 personal rate
€124.80 dependent adult
€29.80 per child

€975 per month rent supplement

Total €31064

Plus medical card, so no doctors bills, or hospital bills and free medicine ( other than a small dispensing fee)

Back to school allowance etc


Meanwhile people here are telling people here that get up and go out to work, including shift work and weekends that they are earning too much on €36,000 before tax prsi and USC.

Something is seriously wrong here.

mickydoomsux

cdebru wrote: »

Not everyone has taken a reduction, some people have had wage increases, some have had reductions and then had increases. It is completely untrue to suggest just about everyone has had a reduction.

But while we are here there hasn't been a cut in social welfare rates since 2011 and of course a person on social welfare with an adult dependent and 2 kids gets upto €31, 064 per year

€188 personal rate
€124.80 dependent adult
€29.80 per child

€975 per month rent supplement

Total €31064

Plus medical card, so no doctors bills, or hospital bills and free medicine ( other than a small dispensing fee)

Back to school allowance etc


Meanwhile people here are telling people here that get up and go out to work, including shift work and weekends that they are earning too much on €36,000 before tax prsi and USC.

Something is seriously wrong here.

Those people are 'vulnerable' and 'entitled' to that money whereas all of us IE employees are overpaid tae drinking bastards who should work 48 hours a week in a hostile environment for a pittance and be glad of it.

JayRoc

cdebru wrote: »

I don't work for IE so I wasn't complaining about anything, but I love how you can imagine how most people think, you should get a job with Redc they waste money asking people how they think they only need to call you.

I gave my opinion on what, having discussed this with a lot of other IR customers, I truly believe to be the case. And believe me, a lot of people who'd I have expected to support ANY industrial action almost on priniciple are still having a hard time seeing things from the strikers' perspective.

Do you honestly think that strikes affecting two of the biggest sporting days in the country wouldn't make the strikers seem vindictive and petty to travellers? Especially given the constant references to the reason for the strike being "pay and conditions"?

If you, or IR staff, think the strike has popular support...in my opinion that's bordering on delusion, I'm sorry.

JayRoc

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Imagine is the main word there.

So you're saying, hand on heart, that you think this strike has the support of the majority of IR customers?

may06

JayRoc wrote: »

I gave my opinion on what, having discussed this with a lot of other IR customers, I truly believe to be the case. And believe me, a lot of people who'd I have expected to support ANY industrial action almost on priniciple are still having a hard time seeing things from the strikers' perspective.

Do you honestly think that strikes affecting two of the biggest sporting days in the country wouldn't make the strikers seem vindictive and petty to travellers? Especially given the constant references to the reason for the strike being "pay and conditions"?

If you, or IR staff, think the strike has popular support...in my opinion that's bordering on delusion, I'm sorry.

In your opinion..exactly.

Infini

JayRoc wrote: »

If you, or IR staff, think the strike has popular support...in my opinion that's bordering on delusion, I'm sorry.

Noone want to be striking if it can be helped but tbh would you have preferred an all out strike off the bat? Its an inconveniece for the sports fans but the alternative would discommendate everyone. At least for the most part people getting to work which to be fair are the more important crowd still have the train for now.

While the all out strike threat is still possible theres nothing to say yet wether it will still happen as its only a possibility at the end of september and hopefully by that time there will be talks. The governement ultimately created the situation here with their political crap.

Copyerselveson

My own view is that the government are so determined to undermine the railways with the Free Travel Scheme, the Land Transport consultation, significant reductions in the subvention and comments from senior ministers questioning the long term viability of the railway that if the strikes were in protest at all of that rather than the temporary pay cuts that would provide a solid moral case for any further strikes.

I am of the opinion that the government are in wider hock to the Road lobby and are more than willing to sacrifice Inter City rail and freight in order to pacify that lobby. It's almost as if the story of how Freeways were built in American cities in the 40s and 50s by destroying those cities public transport systems at the behest of the motor industry. Google will tell a lot about the shady deals done at that time in the US, where streetcar systems were bought out and shut down. Reading the Department's Land Transport consultation document very much reminds me of that.

Regarding the rail strikes, the key now for the Irish Rail workers is to ensure that public sympathy is not eroded any further. Choosing to strike on All Ireland final days is a tactical mistake, all that does is hurt Iarnrod Éireann itself.

Your real quarrel is not with the management of IÉ, it's actually with the Department of Transport who appear to want to devastate the wider railway network for what benefit other than to funnel more money to the motorways. We need motorways, that's for sure. But we need our railways too. For too long we were dependent on the railways for much of our long distance travel needs, that wasn't healthy for the economy. But now I fear the Department have decided they want us now to be wholly dependent on the Motorways and to scrap the long distance railways altogether. That would be a nightmare scenario for this country - to devastate a large part of the nation's infrastructure. Cui Bono? Who benefits?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

It seems that there are a couple of IR employees knocking around here. I'd be genuinely interested to hear how they would fix the problems of IR? I'm not having a go at anyone but I'd like to know what the alternatives are to pay cuts? The free travel scheme seems to be mentioned quite a bit, and on the radio yesterday evening they were talking about closing non profitable routes. Would the union and employees be open to that? Surely that would inevitably lead to job losses?

Infini

Have a read back through the thread we listed some of the issues in previous posts.

end of the road

JayRoc wrote: »

I gave my opinion on what, having discussed this with a lot of other IR customers, I truly believe to be the case. And believe me, a lot of people who'd I have expected to support ANY industrial action almost on priniciple are still having a hard time seeing things from the strikers' perspective.

Do you honestly think that strikes affecting two of the biggest sporting days in the country wouldn't make the strikers seem vindictive and petty to travellers? Especially given the constant references to the reason for the strike being "pay and conditions"?

If you, or IR staff, think the strike has popular support...in my opinion that's bordering on delusion, I'm sorry.

the strike has a good bit of support. more then i would have thought. there will always be a lot who will not support anyone trying to do better, keep what they have, or even go on strike to force management to get out of their bubble and help save the company

end of the road

JayRoc wrote: »

So you're saying, hand on heart, that you think this strike has the support of the majority of IR customers?

how would he know unless he asked every IE customer. how would you know the opposite unless you asked every IE customer.

fxotoole

It's not management who need to get out of their bubble to help save the company, if you ask me.

end of the road

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

on the radio yesterday evening they were talking about closing non profitable routes.

i'd imagine at this stage thats all the network. as said a bit above all to please the governments little chums in the road lobby.

end of the road

fxotoole wrote: »

It's not management who need to get out of their bubble to help save the company, if you ask me.

oh? right. get that lads? shur business as usual for management. don't bother trying to save the company the management are doing everything right. more or less eradicating the frontline staff and allowing revenue to go out the door due to lack of revenue enforcement is a way to run a railway company.

JayRoc

end of the road wrote: »

how would he know unless he asked every IE customer. how would you know the opposite unless you asked every IE customer.

Re-read my post. I said "think", not "know".
The same way I qualify my opinions by saying they're my opinions, not facts, and that I imagine something to be the case if I cannot prove it, etc.

I stand by what I said; that I don't believe this strike has much public support.
Going by this thread alone, it seems to have lacked complete support even from IR staff themselves.

I'm not going to get into whether public support is a good or bad thing for a strike as that's a completely separate issue.

Padraig Mor

end of the road wrote: »

oh? right. get that lads? shur business as usual for management. don't bother trying to save the company the management are doing everything right. more or less eradicating the frontline staff and allowing revenue to go out the door due to lack of revenue enforcement is a way to run a railway company.

We are talking about the same frontline staff who went on strike in Cork a few years back because one of their colleagues - who was caught stealing ticket money - was dismissed, right?

Infini

Padraig Mor wrote: »

We are talking about the same frontline staff who went on strike in Cork a few years back because one of their colleagues - who was caught stealing ticket money - was dismissed, right?

Dunno what happened there tbh usually people who fiddle with the money get the heave pretty quickly its one of the few things ya can get sacked for nearly instantly. Probably more to the story though.

Padraig Mor

Infini2 wrote: »

Dunno what happened there tbh usually people who fiddle with the money get the heave pretty quickly its one of the few things ya can get sacked for nearly instantly. Probably more to the story though.

Not really. He was caught pilfering (IIRC it wasn't his first time either) and was dismissed after going through every HR mechanism possible. The "frontline staff", who are apparently concerned with "revenue enforcement" then went on strike to try and get their colleague reinstated, disrupting travel for thousands around Cork (myself included). Now, the lot in Cork have always been extra militant, but I'll take claims of union concern for revenue etc with a pinch of salt.

end of the road

Infini2 wrote: »

Dunno what happened there tbh usually people who fiddle with the money get the heave pretty quickly its one of the few things ya can get sacked for nearly instantly. Probably more to the story though.

yeah, i'd say there was more to this as well

end of the road

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Not really. He was caught pilfering (IIRC it wasn't his first time either) and was dismissed after going through every HR mechanism possible. The "frontline staff", who are apparently concerned with "revenue enforcement" then went on strike to try and get their colleague reinstated, disrupting travel for thousands around Cork (myself included). Now, the lot in Cork have always been extra militant, but I'll take claims of union concern for revenue etc with a pinch of salt.

each to their own. i'd rather trust the word of people working in the company myself

mickydoomsux

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Not really. He was caught pilfering (IIRC it wasn't his first time either) and was dismissed after going through every HR mechanism possible. The "frontline staff", who are apparently concerned with "revenue enforcement" then went on strike to try and get their colleague reinstated, disrupting travel for thousands around Cork (myself included). Now, the lot in Cork have always been extra militant, but I'll take claims of union concern for revenue etc with a pinch of salt.

Sounds fairly serious. Do you have any links to news articles or anything about it?

Or was the information released by everybody's favourite, most trusted media organisation: "Some Lad Down The Pub Ltd."?

Daith

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Sounds fairly serious. Do you have any links to news articles or anything about it?

Or was the information released by everybody's favourite, most trusted media organisation: "Some Lad Down The Pub Ltd."?

Most people who are let go from their company tend not to make the news for some reason.

Whether the story is true or not asking for a news article about it is a bit odd.

Padraig Mor

end of the road wrote: »

yeah, i'd say there was more to this as well

end of the road wrote: »

each to their own. i'd rather trust the word of people working in the company myself

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Or was the information released by everybody's favourite, most trusted media organisation: "Some Lad Down The Pub Ltd."?

Yip, there it is - the "CIE worker attitude", AKA "the customer is always wrong". And they wonder why paying customers are deserting in droves?

Sounds fairly serious. Do you have any links to news articles or anything about it?

I've been searching in vain for links. Happened around 2009. IIRC the strikers claimed the thief hadn't been treated fairly, on the grounds that one of the three resolution / dispute processes he had been through hadn't recommended his dismissal, even though the other two - including the Labour Court - had. There was never any claim that he was innocent (he was caught red handed IIRC). I remember it well - it was one of the reasons I gave up on using Irish Rail to commute. (Of course, it was just one of several disgraceful stoppages by Cork Kent staff - some of which even the unions didn't support. But of course, I'm sure they were just looking out for the company, not themselves...)

fxotoole

end of the road wrote: »

oh? right. get that lads? shur business as usual for management. don't bother trying to save the company the management are doing everything right. more or less eradicating the frontline staff and allowing revenue to go out the door due to lack of revenue enforcement is a way to run a railway company.

Don't know what you're on about, but refusing to take a (less than 2%) paycut when the company is in dire straits is the very definition of living in a bubble.

mickydoomsux

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Yip, there it is - the "CIE worker attitude", AKA "the customer is always wrong". And they wonder why paying customers are deserting in droves?

You aren't "the customer". You're some anonymous user on a message board making claims with apparently no concrete information to back them up.

Also, passenger revenue is actually rising.

Losty Dublin

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I've been searching in vain for links. Happened around 2009. IIRC the strikers claimed the thief hadn't been treated fairly, on the grounds that one of the three resolution / dispute processes he had been through hadn't recommended his dismissal, even though the other two - including the Labour Court - had. There was never any claim that he was innocent (he was caught red handed IIRC). I remember it well - it was one of the reasons I gave up on using Irish Rail to commute. (Of course, it was just one of several disgraceful stoppages by Cork Kent staff - some of which even the unions didn't support. But of course, I'm sure they were just looking out for the company, not themselves...)

If this went to the Labour Court then surely there has to be mention of it somewhere on the inter web.

end of the road

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Yip, there it is - the "CIE worker attitude", AKA "the customer is always wrong". And they wonder why paying customers are deserting in droves?

not in my case as i don't work for CIE. people are leaving irish rail for many reasons. there was no "the customer is wrong" mentality from any posts in relation to your story, just people hadn't heard about it and thought there might be more to it. but whatever.

end of the road

fxotoole wrote: »

Don't know what you're on about, but refusing to take a (less than 2%) paycut when the company is in dire straits is the very definition of living in a bubble.

its not. its saying to management to sort out the problems of lack of enforcement of revenue collection and when you get that right we'l do our bit. very reasonable

cdebru

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Yip, there it is - the "CIE worker attitude", AKA "the customer is always wrong". And they wonder why paying customers are deserting in droves?




I've been searching in vain for links. Happened around 2009. IIRC the strikers claimed the thief hadn't been treated fairly, on the grounds that one of the three resolution / dispute processes he had been through hadn't recommended his dismissal, even though the other two - including the Labour Court - had. There was never any claim that he was innocent (he was caught red handed IIRC). I remember it well - it was one of the reasons I gave up on using Irish Rail to commute. (Of course, it was just one of several disgraceful stoppages by Cork Kent staff - some of which even the unions didn't support. But of course, I'm sure they were just looking out for the company, not themselves...)

So it happened and there was a strike and you know all the details intimately, but you can't find and supporting evidence, no newspaper report, no boards thread, but the people here who work for IE and don't know anything about it are supposed to just accept your claim or it is proof that they are no good at their jobs.

What about the time the IE porter killed 27 people with a machete, because they complained that the tea wasnt hot enough, and they all went out on strike when IE tried to discipline him.
I can't find any links for it right now, but if you don't believe me, you shouldn't even have your overpaid job.( that isn't that great when compared to social welfare)

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

its saying to management to sort out the problems of lack of enforcement of revenue collection

I wasn't aware this is an official request as part of a resolution proposed by the unions. Can you back this up with a link?

Losty Dublin

cdebru wrote: »

What about the time the IE porter killed 27 people with a machete, because they complained that the tea wasnt hot enough, and they all went out on strike when IE tried to discipline him.
I can't find any links for it right now, but if you don't believe me, you shouldn't even have your overpaid job.( that isn't that great when compared to social welfare)

That lad doesn't work for Irish Rail anymore.

He works for Dunnes Stores on the tills; his true calling in life.

Padraig Mor

mickydoomsux wrote: »

You aren't "the customer". You're some anonymous user on a message board making claims with apparently no concrete information to back them up.

You see, here's more of it. Apparently I've made the whole thing up. I imagined arriving to the station to find no trains. I invented a fantastic story of a wildcat strike in support of a thieving staff member in Cork. No chance of admitting the staff at Cork will strike for any and every reason - to help dodgy colleagues, because trains are newer etc. You keep telling yourselves that staff are always in the right.

Can I find a link? No, not yet. I'm still trying though.

cdebru

Losty Dublin wrote: »

That lad doesn't work for Irish Rail anymore.

He works for Dunnes Stores on the tills; his true calling in life.

Ryanair customer service I believe ;-)

Infini

Only stuff google is showing up is some wildcat strikes from the lads in cork the best part of a decade ago. That being said its the "rebel county" for a reason.... you dont see those kind of shenanigans up here C_C

Losty Dublin

cdebru wrote: »

Ryanair customer service I believe ;-)

Busted so I am

Hilly Bill

JayRoc wrote: »

So you're saying, hand on heart, that you think this strike has the support of the majority of IR customers?

Where do you get that from?

Hilly Bill

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Not really. He was caught pilfering (IIRC it wasn't his first time either) and was dismissed after going through every HR mechanism possible. The "frontline staff", who are apparently concerned with "revenue enforcement" then went on strike to try and get their colleague reinstated, disrupting travel for thousands around Cork (myself included). Now, the lot in Cork have always been extra militant, but I'll take claims of union concern for revenue etc with a pinch of salt.

Striking seems to be a pass time for the lads in Cork . Its lads like them that are the ruin of IR.

Hilly Bill

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Yip, there it is - the "CIE worker attitude", AKA "the customer is always wrong". And they wonder why paying customers are deserting in droves?




I've been searching in vain for links. Happened around 2009. IIRC the strikers claimed the thief hadn't been treated fairly, on the grounds that one of the three resolution / dispute processes he had been through hadn't recommended his dismissal, even though the other two - including the Labour Court - had. There was never any claim that he was innocent (he was caught red handed IIRC). I remember it well - it was one of the reasons I gave up on using Irish Rail to commute. (Of course, it was just one of several disgraceful stoppages by Cork Kent staff - some of which even the unions didn't support. But of course, I'm sure they were just looking out for the company, not themselves...)

I think there was an unofficial protest by per-way lads in Hueston over that as well or over something similar around the same time, but doubt if they were told he was sacked over stealing.

cdebru

Padraig Mor wrote: »

You see, here's more of it. Apparently I've made the whole thing up. I imagined arriving to the station to find no trains. I invented a fantastic story of a wildcat strike in support of a thieving staff member in Cork. No chance of admitting the staff at Cork will strike for any and every reason - to help dodgy colleagues, because trains are newer etc. You keep telling yourselves that staff are always in the right.

Can I find a link? No, not yet. I'm still trying though.

Maybe you imagined it, I googled it, can find ILDA disputes in 99, track engineers in 2006, drivers in 2008, something else in 2011 and maybe 2012, none have any mention of what you describe.

I would say that, if you can't find any supporting evidence then you should withdraw your comment, more than a little defamatory to IE workers in Cork that you claim they knowingly supported a thief.

Bit odd as well, as why would people give up pay to support a thief, to the best of my knowledge anyone in the CIE group caught on the take doesn't go to disciplinary proceedings, as usually they resign before the Gardai are called in. And they get zero sympathy from anyone as everyone knows you steal you are fired end of story.

Hilly Bill

cdebru wrote: »

Maybe you imagined it, I googled it, can find ILDA disputes in 99, track engineers in 2006, drivers in 2008, something else in 2011 and maybe 2012, none have any mention of what you describe.

I would say that, if you can't find any supporting evidence then you should withdraw your comment, more than a little defamatory to IE workers in Cork that you claim they knowingly supported a thief.

Bit odd as well, as why would people give up pay to support a thief, to the best of my knowledge anyone in the CIE group caught on the take doesn't go to disciplinary proceedings, as usually they resign before the Gardai are called in. And they get zero sympathy from anyone as everyone knows you steal you are fired end of story.

Actually, one was stood down from his post and moved somewhere else for a period of time. All you need to do is say that you have a problem. The chap is still in the company and doing a very important job.
It wouldnt happen now days. They will look for the smallest of things to sack you for nowdays.

n97 mini

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Actually, one was stood down from his post and moved somewhere else for a period of time. All you need to do is say that you have a problem. The chap is still in the company and doing a very important job.
It wouldnt happen now days. They will look for the smallest of things to sack you for nowdays.

I dunno. A colleague of mine in another state owned company was given a verbal warning for fiddling the clock. He was told if he got caught again he'd get a written warning. That's only a few years back.

Atlantic Dawn

I look forward to the strike next monday, seeing as the schools will be back a solution will be found right away.