Irish Rail strike days

Infini

Hilly Bill wrote: »

To be fair, that has nothing to do with staff shortages plus you will get anti social behaviour regardless of how many new staff you hire.

Actually having staff in the stations DOES have an effect. Having even one man there will put potential gurriers off because if they act the maggot the guy there in the station will catch wind and tell em to either get lost or call the guards to eject them. With noone there they got free reign of the place and noone will notice therye there until something is wrecked and thats before taking into account potential travellers being intimidated out of going to the place.

As for the guy who got stranded in howth jct and had to be helped off the train thats the issue nailed in the head. Noone manning the place becase of lack of staff and equipment locked up because of gurriers wrecking/stealing them.

While not confirmed I heard from one or two people Raheny was unmanned the day that poor woman got run over by the train. If thats turns out to be true that would be another reason why you shouldnt have stations unmanned.

Infini

end of the road wrote: »

not at all, the general publics opinion doesn't matter in these situations , this is simply about resolving a dispute and this is the last tool in the box, i'd be surprised if there isn't some agreement reached either before or after the strike

No chance of it beforehand Franks fecking off on holidays sums up Managements attitude to the workers ie. Go strike I couldnt give a toss.
As for after unless they back off on the pay cuts and the goverment stops playing politics I cant see anything but an escalation happening.

As for the public most people seem to understand the situation much as its an inconvenience but can see we got little other option but to stand up for ourselves.

Jamie2k9

No chance of it beforehand Franks fecking off on holidays sums up Managements attitude to the workers ie. Go strike I couldnt give a toss.

He is entitled to a holiday, its not as if unions are in the mood for talks so what the problem. He wouldn't be heading up the talks and there is such things as conference calls.

I think I will need a holiday if I have to listen to the NBRU much longer.

Infini

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

He is entitled to a holiday, its not as if unions are in the mood for talks so what the problem. He wouldn't be heading up the talks and there is such things as conference calls.

I think I will need a holiday if I have to listen to the NBRU much longer.

Everyones entitled to a holiday but when your the head of a company and you basically go off on holidays at the time right up to an impending strike your triggering by unilateral action it looks like you dont give a fiddelers about either the company the customers or the staff. I mean if this was the minister of transport doing this people would be ripping the piss outta him for it.

Jamie2k9

Infini2 wrote: »

Everyones entitled to a holiday but when your the head of a company and you basically go off on holidays at the time right up to an impending strike your triggering by unilateral action it looks like you dont give a fiddelers about either the company the customers or the staff. I mean if this was the minister of transport doing this people would be ripping the piss outta him for it.

It looks bad but remember these pay cuts were due to take effect from Feb, June and now August and that's this year alone. Not forgetting about last year. Should he cancel a holiday which he booked in advance. I'm sure if unions were serious about talks he would come back but they are no interested. What can he do here or abroad? As I already said communication is very easy and being on holiday has only given unions more air time to complain.

The staff don't give a fiddelers about the passengers but that's fine?

BTW the minister for transport is on his holidays to but not outside Ireland, what is the difference?

cdebru

lxflyer wrote: »

Well I think it's a bit more real than that.

It's a case of whether the company survives or not.

That requires everyone to unfortunately make some sacrifice.

As I said above, the subsidy cuts reflect lower passenger numbers, and the financial reality that this state finds itself in - just avoiding bankruptcy.

I think that you'll find most people in the private sector have had to put up with far longer pay restraint than Dublin Bus is effecting.

I think you will find that DB employees have put up with pay restraint since 2007, and that not all the cuts will be reversed in 19 months some are permanent cuts. See this attitude is exactly why it is so difficult to make a deal on anything in CIE because even when it is written down in black and white you can't trust them to deliver, the wording of the agreement is plain and simple it is not based on accumulated losses or balance sheets over multiple years.

Why include a profitability clause if they have no intention of honoring it ? And you would be on here with plenty to say if it was the workers that were not honoring an agreement wouldn't you ?

cdebru

CatFromHue wrote: »

Maybe not but it'll be very difficult to have a strike for as long as they've planned if the general public are against them.

Greyhound workers are nearly 3 months on strike and have plenty of public sympathy but their strike is having little to no effect on bin collections so no one cares, general public for or against you matters little, what does matter is the pressure you can apply.

LXFlyer

cdebru wrote: »

I think you will find that DB employees have put up with pay restraint since 2007, and that not all the cuts will be reversed in 19 months some are permanent cuts. See this attitude is exactly why it is so difficult to make a deal on anything in CIE because even when it is written down in black and white you can't trust them to deliver, the wording of the agreement is plain and simple it is not based on accumulated losses or balance sheets over multiple years.

Why include a profitability clause if they have no intention of honoring it ? And you would be on here with plenty to say if it was the workers that were not honoring an agreement wouldn't you ?

Perhaps it's because in the companies that I've worked in, everyone recognised the seriousness of the situation and that circumstances can and do change rapidly, and that what may have been agreed at one point may just not be economically viable any more. They appreciated that the companies would have to make cuts to ensure their long term survival.

This country has just been on the verge of bankruptcy, there is damn all public money to spend, yet I'm reading here about people complaining about losing a 7% pay increase???

I've worked for two companies during the last ten years, one of which didn't survive due to the recession, despite the best efforts of all the staff and management, but where in both cases everyone realised that the status quo had to go out the window for the companies to have any chance of survival.

So as someone who at one stage lost his job due to the economic conditions of this country, you'll perhaps forgive me if I get somewhat frustrated by this "we were promised this, we were promise that" attitude. The last seven years have been anything but normal conditions for companies to operate in and they have to adapt to those circumstances as they arise.

I accept your frustration at having to experience a pay cut, but there are many others out there who didn't even have that choice.

CatFromHue

cdebru wrote: »

Greyhound workers are nearly 3 months on strike and have plenty of public sympathy but their strike is having little to no effect on bin collections so no one cares, general public for or against you matters little, what does matter is the pressure you can apply.

Greyhound doesn't effect the company anywhere near Irish Rail does.

may06

n97 mini wrote: »

Statistically some of them are fairly vacuous both ways.

Show us the statistics?

Banjoxed

n97 mini wrote: »

I'll take a photo for you next time. Believe me, outside of commuter traffic there is very little patronage Mon-Thurs and Saturdays.

Believe you? I believe you have an axe to grind against the railways for some reason, that's what I believe. If the Sligo line etc ad nauseum was removed, would anyone be a cent better off through income taxes? It never happened in the fifties and sixties with mass closures. Why would it happen now, unless our long standing coterie of Ideological libertarians got a nerdgasm from it. Those with an interest in private buses and toll roads, now that's another matter.

cdebru

mickydoomsux wrote: »

This aspect has never really made sense to me.

Less passengers=less revenue=less subsidy

More passengers=more revenue=more subsidy

No it doesn't make sense and is not the model the NTA are offering to private companies who tender for bus routes, they will be paid on the basis of kilometers/serviced so no one travels or the buses are full they still get paid the same amount, unlike the model that CIE is expected to operate where the staff are expected to subsidise the companies services.

cdebru

lxflyer wrote: »

Perhaps it's because in the companies that I've worked in, everyone recognised the seriousness of the situation and that circumstances can and do change rapidly, and that what may have been agreed at one point may just not be economically viable any more. They appreciated that the companies would have to make cuts to ensure their long term survival.

This country has just been on the verge of bankruptcy, there is damn all public money to spend, yet I'm reading here about people complaining about losing a 7% pay increase???

I've worked for two companies during the last ten years, one of which didn't survive due to the recession, despite the best efforts of all the staff and management, but where in both cases everyone realised that the status quo had to go out the window for the companies to have any chance of survival.

So as someone who at one stage lost his job due to the economic conditions of this country, you'll perhaps forgive me if I get somewhat frustrated by this "we were promised this, we were promise that" attitude. The last seven years have been anything but normal conditions for companies to operate in and they have to adapt to those circumstances as they arise.

I accept your frustration at having to experience a pay cut, but there are many others out there who didn't even have that choice.

While I accept your frustration at having lost a job, what has that got to do with anything ?

You are avoiding the question and engaging in whataboutery, a deal was made, and at the time the deal was made the company was profitable despite assurances to the contrary, so these are not unforseen circumstances these are seen and known circumstances the people signing the company up to that deal knew the state of the companies finances and made a promise they had no intention of keeping, and of course the unions made a deal they had no intention of holding the company to.
Which if you go back to the time is exactly what I said at the time the unions and the companies are in cahoots with each other which is why the unions can't deliver their members because they aren't trusted either.

The current IR strike is the same, it is about the unions and the company working together to get the workers to agree, hence strikes and breaks this will follow the same the first 2 days will go ahead then the LC will intervene in time to prevent the next ones and bounce the staff into a deal after they have lost money.


IE cannot legally change the contract unilaterally with their staff, it is contract law, and why the government backed down with the health executives getting bonus top up payments, remember they said they have a contract nothing they can do without opening themselves up to legal action for breach of contract. So why is a health chiefs contract protected by contract law but IR staff who have unions with barristers etc have to lose wages through strike to protect their contracts ????

cdebru

CatFromHue wrote: »

Greyhound doesn't effect the company anywhere near Irish Rail does.

What are you trying to say ?

Greyhound workers on strike doesn't affect the company? Correct so even though they have public sympathy it will not help them because their strike is having no impact on the company or its customers, so that tells you it is not sympathy or public support that wins a strike it is impact and pressure you can apply.
So nonsense about IR workers not having public support is not only unproven it is irrelevant.

LXFlyer

cdebru wrote: »

While I accept your frustration at having lost a job, what has that got to do with anything ?

You are avoiding the question and engaging in whataboutery, a deal was made, and at the time the deal was made the company was profitable despite assurances to the contrary, so these are not unforseen circumstances these are seen and known circumstances the people signing the company up to that deal knew the state of the companies finances and made a promise they had no intention of keeping, and of course the unions made a deal they had no intention of holding the company to.
Which if you go back to the time is exactly what I said at the time the unions and the companies are in cahoots with each other which is why the unions can't deliver their members because they aren't trusted either.

The current IR strike is the same, it is about the unions and the company working together to get the workers to agree, hence strikes and breaks this will follow the same the first 2 days will go ahead then the LC will intervene in time to prevent the next ones and bounce the staff into a deal after they have lost money.


IE cannot legally change the contract unilaterally with their staff, it is contract law, and why the government backed down with the health executives getting bonus top up payments, remember they said they have a contract nothing they can do without opening themselves up to legal action for breach of contract. So why is a health chiefs contract protected by contract law but IR staff who have unions with barristers etc have to lose wages through strike to protect their contracts ????

The "losing my job" was after we (as a staff and management) tried everything to keep the company afloat. What I'm reading here is people talking about two sides, management and workers, and no one seems to be talking about the company and it's long term survival.

I'm not going to continue discussing it with you, save to say that my point was that in the companies I worked in we (the staff) realised that whatever promises had been made weren't going to be able to be delivered, because doing so would render the company insolvent, and adjusted our expectations accordingly.

All I'm reading here frankly is complete inflexibility.

km79

so the strike this weekend is almost 100% now?

LXFlyer

km79 wrote: »

so the strike this weekend is almost 100% now?

I don't think there is any "almost" about it.

devnull

The NTA have now created a page with advice on how to get around during the strike and details of private operators and extra services.

http://www.transportforireland.ie/rail-strike/

cdebru

lxflyer wrote: »

The "losing my job" was after we (as a staff and management) tried everything to keep the company afloat. What I'm reading here is people talking about two sides, management and workers, and no one seems to be talking about the company and it's long term survival.

I'm not going to continue discussing it with you, save to say that my point was that in the companies I worked in we (the staff) realised that whatever promises had been made weren't going to be able to be delivered, because doing so would render the company insolvent, and adjusted our expectations accordingly.

All I'm reading here frankly is complete inflexibility.

What is missing from your anecdote is the shareholder, if the shareholders in the company you are talking about were directing the company to gives its products or services for free to a huge portion of the companies customer base but not actually recompensing the company for doing this would you think the responsibility for saving the company rests with the workers or management or that the shareholder is actually the one dragging the company down? Would you have taken pay cut and more pay cuts and worsening of your terms and conditions whole the shareholder not just continued to act in this way but actually gave more of the product or services away for free but didn't pay any thing more to the company ?

Or would you say hang on a minute we are making sacrifices here trying to save the company and the shareholder is just taking advantage this has to stop we can't keep taking pay cuts and subsiding the shareholders generosity? Of course it wouldnt happen a normal company because shareholders wouldn't be allowed to do that so your comparisons with what happens in wherever you worked are invalid.

CatFromHue

cdebru wrote: »

What are you trying to say ?

Greyhound workers on strike doesn't affect the company? Correct so even though they have public sympathy it will not help them because their strike is having no impact on the company or its customers, so that tells you it is not sympathy or public support that wins a strike it is impact and pressure you can apply.
So nonsense about IR workers not having public support is not only unproven it is irrelevant.

I meant to say country not company.

Irish Rail striking will effect a huge amount of people throughout the country both employers and employees too.

Once the strike starts it'll be the first item on the news, front page on the newspapers, and feature regularly on The Last Word, The Right Hook etc. If the public are against the strikers this will all be negative news and be alot harder on them than if it was positive news.

bikeman1

I am fully behind the drivers on this one.

This whole financial mess comes down to one big thing in my opinion - IE not being reimbursed properly for all the passengers who are travelling with DSP passes. How can any company operate when they are not getting the correct Revenue in.

Passenger numbers have dropped in recent years, but the number of DSP passengers most definitely has not and has probably even gone up. It has been the day to day regular full fare paying customers that have disappeared because of the recession, and along with them, their vital Revenue.

The government controls the subvention to Irish Rail. It is Fine Gael and Labour who are forcing this situation. While I fully understand the precarious situation that the economy was / is in, this is not the fault of IE drivers and frontline staff. It says something when a country we are more than happy to pay the bankers huge money to let the nurses / guards / teachers etc get hammered for something that is not their making.

The whole way IE has been run in the last 10 years has been a shambles. I could go on and on all day about it. Frontline staff have been wiped out. Most passengers are lucky to see another staff member apart from the driver these days or the catering attendant (whose works for a private company). Yet the number of managers has increased year on year!

The staff that are still on the frontline are being relied on to work a huge number of rest days throughout the year to keep the service going. I wouldn't like in my job if was expected to come in for about 15 Saturdays or Sundays over the year to keep things afloat. I have a life! It is this extra overtime that is running up the wage bill causing more problems.

A few cost saving measures from the top of my head for IE management when they are reading this! :

1: Stop the paint job on the 29000s.

2: Stop the renumbering of the fleet in UIC numbers - Trust me there is no worries that an 071 or an ICR will be wandering off this island any time soon.

3. Stop having Dundalk drivers doing the Enterprise, that will mean you are not paying drivers to travel passenger to / from Connolly on certain jobs. This will eliminate the ridiculous carry on of having an 071 being used as a "taxi" every Saturday night.

4: Fix diagrams up so the amount of ECS movements to/from Portlaoise every day is sorted.

5: Protect Revenue on the DART/Commuter in Dublin. It is currently a free for all when the skeleton staff that remain are not there.

6: People are afraid to get the train, because they know the walk up fares are extortionate. There should be an off peak fare structure. €30 return max to anywhere in the country if travelling on off peak services. Full fares still apply if you turn up looking to go to Cork on a Friday evening for example.

7:Stop running 8 car 29000s on a large number of services to / from Dublin during the day. (I know space is a premium and sets have to end up in the right place, but it can be done better than it currently is. You did it with the DART)

8: Have a root and branch review of what ALL your staff ACTUALLY do everyday. I am sure there is a huge amount of duplication in work that is being done.

The list could go on and on!

Anyway, best of luck to the staff on strike, it is not easy. I'll be on my bike for work as the buses will be rammed.

cdebru

CatFromHue wrote: »

I meant to say country not company.

Irish Rail striking will effect a huge amount of people throughout the country both employers and employees too.

Once the strike starts it'll be the first item on the news, front page on the newspapers, and feature regularly on The Last Word, The Right Hook etc. If the public are against the strikers this will all be negative news and be alot harder on them than if it was positive news.

I doubt there is anyone in IE who expects positive media coverage of any dispute they are involved in. Again public support or positive media coverage doesn't win you anything otherwise nurses would be the best paid people in Ireland. What wins is how much pressure you can exert and how willing you are to use it.

noodler

Semi-State companies can't have it both ways.

The money isn't there, the business isn't there and the taxpayer's money certainly isn't there.

devnull

Further updates by the NTA.

Ennis to Limerick
Citibus Ltd. (Dublin Coach) service 300 from Dublin to Ennis via Limerick has been permitted to transport passengers between Ennis and Arthur’s Quay Limerick, on days of industrial action:
Monday to Friday: Ennis 07:00, 08:00, 09:00 and 10:00
Monday to Friday: Arthur’s Quay Limerick, 16:30, 17:30, 18:30 and 19:30

Athenry to Galway
Fergus Farrell (BusLink) service 418 from Athenry to Galway will provide an additional Sunday 10:00 am departure from Athenry on days of industrial action.

Enfield Coaches Ltd.
Enfield Coaches Ltd will provide the following services between Longford and Dublin via Edgeworthstown and Mullingar.

From Longford:
Sunday (days of industrial action only):
Longford (Ballymahon Street) 18:45; Edgeworthstown (Longford Road) 19:00; Mullingar (Austin Friars Street) 19:25; Mullingar (Dublin Road) 19:30; Heuston Station 20:05; The Four Courts 20:10 and O’Connell Bridge 20:15

Monday to Friday (days of industrial action only):
Longford (Ballymahon Street) 06:00; Edgeworthstown (Longford Road) 06:15; Mullingar (Austin Friars Street) 06:40; Mullingar (Dublin Road) 06:45; Heuston Station 08:00; The Four Courts 08:10; O’Connell Bridge 08:15; Nassau Street 08:20; Merrion Square 08:25; Fitzwilliam Square 8:30.
Longford (Ballymahon Street) 06:30; Edgeworthstown (Longford Road) 06:45; Mullingar (Austin Friars Street) 07:10; Mullingar (Dublin Road) 07:15; Heuston Station 08:30; The Four Courts 08:40; O’Connell Bridge 08:45; Nassau Street 08:50; Merrion Square 08:55; Fitzwilliam Square 09:00

From Dublin:
Monday to Friday (days of industrial action only):
Dublin (George’s Quay) 16:15; Mullingar (Dublin Road) 17:40; Mullingar (Austin Friars Street) 17:45; Edgeworthstown (Longford Road) 18:15; Longford (Ballymahon Street) 18:30
Dublin (George’s Quay) 18:00; Mullingar (Dublin Road) 19:25; Mullingar (Austin Friars Street) 19:30; Edgeworthstown (Longford Road) 20:00; Longford (Ballymahon Street) 20:15

Further details:
http://www.transportforireland.ie/rail-strike/

cdebru

noodler wrote: »

Semi-State companies can't have it both ways.

The money isn't there, the business isn't there and the taxpayer's money certainly isn't there.

In what way are they looking to have it both ways ?


If the money is not there then the government should not be offering free travel to people if the government can't afford to pay for it simple. Burton was quick enough out to tell people their free travel was safe, well who is going to pay for it ? Expecting ordinary workers to pick up the shortfall in government promises is grossly unfair.

Marhay70

cdebru wrote: »

In what way are they looking to have it both ways ?


If the money is not there then the government should not be offering free travel to people if the government can't afford to pay for it simple. Burton was quick enough out to tell people their free travel was safe, well who is going to pay for it ? Expecting ordinary workers to pick up the shortfall in government promises is grossly unfair.

I can never understand this argument. If free travel is withdrawn my guess is that most recipients of the FTP just won't travel, that leaves IR still running the services, still paying the wage bill, still paying the fuel and maintenance bill on rolling stock and track but doing all that without the subvention. The only solution at that point is to cut services and staff, how will that help?

end of the road

Infini2 wrote: »

No chance of it beforehand Franks fecking off on holidays sums up Managements attitude to the workers ie. Go strike I couldnt give a toss.
As for after unless they back off on the pay cuts and the goverment stops playing politics I cant see anything but an escalation happening.

As for the public most people seem to understand the situation much as its an inconvenience but can see we got little other option but to stand up for ourselves.

in fairness you do seem to have a lot of support which is good, but on the radio only the begrudgers get most of the airtime

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

He is entitled to a holiday, its not as if unions are in the mood for talks so what the problem. He wouldn't be heading up the talks and there is such things as conference calls.

I think I will need a holiday if I have to listen to the NBRU much longer.

well if i was in charge of irish rail in this situation the last thing i would be doing is going on holiday, but thats just me

end of the road

bikeman1 wrote: »

Fix diagrams up so the amount of ECS movements to/from Portlaoise every day is sorted.

i thought they were eliminated with the portlaoise commuter service? a service who's existance is one of the excuses as to why 29s still run to rosslare and sligo.

end of the road

noodler wrote: »

Semi-State companies can't have it both ways.

The money isn't there, the business isn't there and the taxpayer's money certainly isn't there.

unless its for helth chiefs then it is for some reason.

cdebru

Marhay70 wrote: »

I can never understand this argument. If free travel is withdrawn my guess is that most recipients of the FTP just won't travel, that leaves IR still running the services, still paying the wage bill, still paying the fuel and maintenance bill on rolling stock and track but doing all that without the subvention. The only solution at that point is to cut services and staff, how will that help?

I highlighted the most important part for you.

The second part is subvention, subvention has nothing to do with free travel the subvention is for the PSO ( public service obligation).

So first you are guessing they won't travel but you don't know ? Second how much do IE get for providing free travel ? So how much would they lose ?

I have never understood the logic that free travel doesn't cost anything ?

Onthe3rdDay

bikeman1 wrote: »

I am fully behind the drivers on this one.

This whole financial mess comes down to one big thing in my opinion - IE not being reimbursed properly for all the passengers who are travelling with DSP passes. How can any company operate when they are not getting the correct Revenue in.

Passenger numbers have dropped in recent years, but the number of DSP passengers most definitely has not and has probably even gone up. It has been the day to day regular full fare paying customers that have disappeared because of the recession, and along with them, their vital Revenue.

I agree with most of what you say but I can't comment on certain bits as I don't have the knowledge, However this point is very valid. I used to get the train a lot more up to this year and on trains off peak I appeared to be the only one that was actually paying a fare. What's worse I would have a seat reserved for work purposes and it would always be occupied by some old Dear (usually a lot healthier than me) who would be slow to move or point blank refuse.

Now I have no problem with free travel for the over 66's but if the company is providing the service then they should be paid for it by the Government. Otherwise limit the Free travel to very off peak and have a token charge of say 5 euro the rest of the time.

bikeman1 wrote: »

6: People are afraid to get the train, because they know the walk up fares are extortionate. There should be an off peak fare structure. €30 return max to anywhere in the country if travelling on off peak services. Full fares still apply if you turn up looking to go to Cork on a Friday evening for example.

This is one of the main reasons I now get the Bus, I can't walk up and just get the Train. I would be willing to pay 25 or 30 euro to do so... That real money. Meanwhile others with passes get on for free and add nothing to the actual bank balance.

steveblack

Marhay70 wrote: »

I can never understand this argument. If free travel is withdrawn my guess is that most recipients of the FTP just won't travel, that leaves IR still running the services, still paying the wage bill, still paying the fuel and maintenance bill on rolling stock and track but doing all that without the subvention. The only solution at that point is to cut services and staff, how will that help?

CIE get less than €100 per year for each free travel pass, which gives unlimited free travel on IE,DB & BE.

If the free pass was abolished in the morning and all of these free travelers stayed at home all week and only went out once a week to do the shopping and used the DART.
The lowest fare possible is €1.70 with LEAP.
Once into town and back home for a total cost of €3.40 .
52 weeks at €3.40 for a total of €176.80 for one journey a week on the DART.

Is it any wonder the prices are going up each year for fare paying passengers, someone has got to pay for the free travel.

Onthe3rdDay

steveblack wrote: »

Is it any wonder the prices are going up each year for fare paying passengers, someone has got to pay for the free travel.

And of course for those that are in their 40's and younger today (who are paying the fares) are unlike to get the perk. by the time they'll get to 66, the free travel will either have gone or will be from 75 upwards.

n97 mini

Banjoxed wrote: »

Believe you? I believe you have an axe to grind against the railways for some reason, that's what I believe.

You're personalising the argument. I quite enjoy travelling by train as it happens.

kupus

Whats with all the Free pass allowance bashing, do you all think that is the cause of the problem?

Hilly Bill

Infini2 wrote: »

Actually having staff in the stations DOES have an effect. Having even one man there will put potential gurriers off because if they act the maggot the guy there in the station will catch wind and tell em to either get lost or call the guards to eject them. With noone there they got free reign of the place and noone will notice therye there until something is wrecked and thats before taking into account potential travellers being intimidated out of going to the place.

As for the guy who got stranded in howth jct and had to be helped off the train thats the issue nailed in the head. Noone manning the place becase of lack of staff and equipment locked up because of gurriers wrecking/stealing them.

While not confirmed I heard from one or two people Raheny was unmanned the day that poor woman got run over by the train. If thats turns out to be true that would be another reason why you shouldnt have stations unmanned.

How would Raheny being manned prevented what happened to the poor woman?

Infini

Hilly Bill wrote: »

How would Raheny being manned prevented what happened to the poor woman?

Because someone couldve helped her down to the platform and onto a dart instead of her making her way down by herself. Thats one of the reasons you have people in these stations for. As I said Ive only heard it had been unmanned but my point is valid if confirmed.

Hilly Bill

Marhay70 wrote: »

I can never understand this argument. If free travel is withdrawn my guess is that most recipients of the FTP just won't travel, that leaves IR still running the services, still paying the wage bill, still paying the fuel and maintenance bill on rolling stock and track but doing all that without the subvention. The only solution at that point is to cut services and staff, how will that help?

That would make train travel that little bit safer.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

You're personalising the argument.

no he isn't. someone who uses the sligo line regularly has told you your wrong also.

Hilly Bill

Infini2 wrote: »

Because someone couldve helped her down to the platform and onto a dart instead of her making her way down by herself. Thats one of the reasons you have people in these stations for. As I said Ive only heard it was had been unmanned but my point is valid if confirmed.

She did the journey daily and didnt fall trying to get onto the train. A lot of visually impaired passengers travel daily and require no assistance they either dont ask or refuse. One travels daily and requires no assistance as he does his own thing, he fell onto the tracks one day and after that ,staff kept making sure he was ok etc . The result was him taking a case against IR for infringing on his independence . No win situation.

You point is valid for as long you want it to be .

Tube

end of the road wrote: »

no he isn't. someone who uses the sligo line regularly has told you your wrong also.

I live beside it and i think I have the explanation: When the passengers see me out walking they all duck so that the train looks empty as it passes by.

Jamie2k9

Infini2 wrote: »

Because someone couldve helped her down to the platform and onto a dart instead of her making her way down by herself. Thats one of the reasons you have people in these stations for. As I said Ive only heard it had been unmanned but my point is valid if confirmed.

No it wouldn't, we don't know the exact details but it was an accident and IE are likely not at fault. They have raised bumps on the platform. It could be medically related if the women took a turn.

Whats with all the Free pass allowance bashing, do you all think that is the cause of the problem?

It is the problem, well at least 90% of it!

LXFlyer

kupus wrote: »

Whats with all the Free pass allowance bashing, do you all think that is the cause of the problem?

It's an issue for sure, but not the fundamental problem.


The fundamental problem is the cumulative effect of the recession on the companies.


Annual passenger journeys on Irish Rail have dropped by 19% since the high of 2007 to 2013, and by 23% on Dublin Bus and 18% on Bus Eireann during the same period.


No company can sustain that sort of drop in business without having to make serious adjustments to costs, and unfortunately that will inevitably focus on payroll as it is in general the single biggest cost in any organisation.


That's the main issue here - the business collapsed.


Everything else is frankly a side issue.

Cookie_Monster

now they've gone and ruined the bosses holidays....
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-rail-boss-to-return-from-holiday-early-to-deal-with-rail-strike-30526388.html

Irish Rail boss to return from holiday early to deal with rail strike

cdebru

lxflyer wrote: »

It's an issue for sure, but not the fundamental problem.


The fundamental problem is the cumulative effect of the recession on the companies.


Annual passenger journeys on Irish Rail have dropped by 19% since the high of 2007 to 2013, and by 23% on Dublin Bus and 18% on Bus Eireann during the same period.


No company can sustain that sort of drop in business without having to make serious adjustments to costs, and unfortunately that will inevitably focus on payroll as it is in general the single biggest cost in any organisation.


That's the main issue here - the business collapsed.


Everything else is frankly a side issue.

Well in the future NTA tendering model it would make no difference to the operator what the business was like as they would receive exactly the same income no matter how many or how few people use the service.

In that case the NTA ( government) will have to make up any shortfall between cost of service and income without redress to the staff.

Secondly it is only a side issue because the trade unions are afraid to touch it for fear of being portrayed as the villain and because they naively believe an unsustainable funding model will protect them from privatization, however a quick look at the Dublin refuse collection recent history shows the fallacy of that theory, free bin collections for those on social welfare made the councils refuse collection unsustainable, and the workers ended up in Greyhound now facing a 35% cut and on strike for nearly 3 months.

If the free travel scheme had risen with inflation, risen inline with fare increases or even risen inline with the increase in numbers availing of it then there would be no shortfall and no cutbacks and no strike, it is a side issue but only because it is the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about.

LXFlyer

I think you'll find that if passenger numbers dropped that dramatically again that the NTA would be drafting revised timetables that reflected demand which would equate to service cuts.

You can dress it up all you like, but the core problem is that the companies' business collapsed. That's the reason for the losses.

The companies were left with a cost base that was too high and which was based on the previous demand levels. The business dropped almost 10% in one year, but costs didn't. That's a total mismatch that left the companies in dire straits.

You can believe in your own world that the FTS is to blame, but that's only a small part of this. The fundamental fact is that the business collapsed but costs were not paired back fast enough.

I'd also argue that the paying customer has paid a far bigger price than anyone (including employees) in all of this in terms of the percentage annual fare increases which have been the main source of the shortfall in PSO subsidy. We have paid a far higher price in terms of our transport costs than any staff member on terms of payroll cuts, plus anyone working in the private sector has had to pay a higher percentage pay cut on top of that.

marvin80

Will the car park of Heuston station be open on Sunday?

SpaceTime

There are two factors to this:

1) The economic slow down and reduction in train travel generally.
2) The massive improvement in motorway infrastructure on long distance routes. This is competing directly with Irish Rail who, despite fleet replacements, did nothing to improve speed and thus make the service more attractive.

I also *still* find a major problem with consistency of service on board around really basic things like cleaning and hygiene. I recently got the train to Dublin from Cork and the toilets were absolutely filthy, you could actually smell them in the corridor and in the coach of the train.

That kind of thing is inexcusable and from my point of view it means I won't be taking the train again.

Also, there are *still* no sockets on the MK4 trains. I know that seems trivial, but if you're going to take a public transport journey between Cork and Dublin having the ability to charge your laptop and mobile is a huge deal.

Catering on board is still inadequate too. It wouldn't kill them to put a proper espresso machine into the dining cars of the MK4 and start serving a few decent coffees. Irish consumers expect a lot more than instant coffee and a hang-sangwich these days.

suicide_circus

Perhaps the state should increase the subvention to IR? Maybe close a few hospitals? Sack a few special needs care assistants? While we're at it, drivers should be on 100k basic.