Irish Rail strike days

punisher5112

cdebru wrote: »

It is €145 a year that is roughly 3 visits a year whether you go or don't go in your case it would have cost you €2766 for 2 visits so probably the most expensive GP visits and definitely not free.

Exactly what I said not free people just see this as been a great free scheme.

Infini

Hilly Bill wrote: »

They havent. They didnt tell anyone at the time of the ballot that it may be an all out strike , if they did i doubt that the strike would have gone ahead.

Actually the ballot had up to and including all out strike as the 1st option.

devnull wrote: »

Thanks to that management and staff have a great working relationship, far better than it was before since we all worked together to resolve our problems and the company is all the better for it. For sure we took some short term pain but in the long term it paid off.

Its lucky you have managment that are realistic and reasonable and not utter gombeens. Its also tougher as a private company as well as you have no room for failure but at least your all able to work together to identify and rectify problems. Problem for us in IR is that theres a beligerent attitude from managment not to mention the fact that obvious revenue holes that might make a significant difference arent being addresses because they cant be bothered.

Example from one of the lads over in Tara st is the back entrance in tara st. Its wide open during both rush hours. Apart from the odd time ticket checkers are occasionally there someone from Maynooth, Balbriggan or even Gormanstown/Laytown could easily get through there for nothing during both rush hours. In addition your unlikely to be checked on the train during rush hour because its too packed to be checking tickets. Someone doing that for 2 weeks basically has basically made enough savings with the free travel to offset the fine and unless they have a check going on at broombridge all they gotta coming in to town is say is they came from there and they not only pay the minimum fare but they get away with the fine as well!

mickydoomsux

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I would ask you these questions in this way!

Are the staff at Irish Rail including those at the frontline given appropriate training to learn the health and safety aspects of their job regularly?

Does Irish Rail carry out risk assessments on a regular basis for various health and safety improvements in your workplace for both passengers and employees?

We do personal track safety once a year and manual handling every three years and that's pretty much it. Our training is done at a "legal minimum requirement level" and is usually worked around you actually being in work doing a shift of your job. If people knew how thinly stretched the front line staff in IE were outside of Dublin, they would be shocked.

Much more than half my weekly hours are spent running a busy station on my own and best of luck to any customers with special needs etc. I'll get to you if i have time, unfortunately. If there an emergency operator for a crossing needed or a pilotman is needed then the station is literally abandoned and you'll have to fend for yourself and find out why trains are delayed.

Safety briefs and other nonsense that have no bearing on the actual job are updated by our (frankly useless) station manager every now and then but that's it really.

cdebru

Always amazes me how these companies that have no money always have money to sponsor this that and the other.

Seriously does anyone jump on the Dart or take the train because IE is sponsoring the women's mini marathon, or a folk music festival in sligo ? Or the DCU students union ball ? Someone must have a relative attending DCU I presume or the North Dublin soccer leagues, or the Irish national youth ballet company ? should a company that is cutting its employees wages be spending money on these good causes that have little if any beneficial return for the company.

mickydoomsux

cdebru wrote: »

Always amazes me how these companies that have no money always have money to sponsor this that and the other.

Seriously does anyone jump on the Dart or take the train because IE is sponsoring the women's mini marathon, or a folk music festival in sligo ? Or the DCU students union ball ? Someone must have a relative attending DCU I presume or the North Dublin soccer leagues, or the Irish national youth ballet company ? should a company that is cutting its employees wages be spending money on these good causes that have little if any beneficial return for the company.

PR nonsense. We got posters adverting "take the train to Garth Brooks" months before it was cancelled. and the same for the One Direction shows that went ahead.

There were no planned special trains running on our line for either set of concerts.

As the older staff at my station say: "This company can't wait to waste money on things that don't matter". They've seen the pathetic attempts at PR that made zero difference to revenue over the years. People don't care about ads, they care about extra trains being put on when they want to go see/do something and that is the last thing the company will do because that costs overtime.

Jamie2k9

cdebru wrote: »

Always amazes me how these companies that have no money always have money to sponsor this that and the other.

Seriously does anyone jump on the Dart or take the train because IE is sponsoring the women's mini marathon, or a folk music festival in sligo ? Or the DCU students union ball ? Someone must have a relative attending DCU I presume or the North Dublin soccer leagues, or the Irish national youth ballet company ? should a company that is cutting its employees wages be spending money on these good causes that have little if any beneficial return for the company.

Any you know for certain there is no return?

There were no planned special trains running on our line for either set of concerts.

Actually after holding back on late night service for One Direction (outside of Cork/Limerick/Galway) they had planned services to Sligo and Waterford for all 5 nights of Gareth Brooks and just because every line didn't have late services does not mean people didn't use a service.

Grandeeod

end of the road wrote: »

what is a reasonable and rational discussion in your opinion? if one is wanting the typical rabel rabel on the likes of the journal then no thanks i don't want it here myself but each to their own



thats the nature of forums like this though. you want the people who actually know whats going on within a company to tell you so of course they will have to have a vested interest.

You have already revealed yourself to not having a clue about the history of CIE and I quote the luas as an example. Therefore your credibility is non existant. Understand the background of what you are talking about. If you think that the IE/CIE employees on this forum are providing an unbiased representation of their situation, then you keep on searching for that elusive IC train on the Rosslare route that your naievity deserves.

Grandeeod

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Did roughly 60% of your customers "pay" the equivalent of €100 a year to use whatever your company provided while the remaining 40% paid thousands?

You are still spinning that one.:D Withdraw free travel tomorrow and your company is ****ed more than it ever was. They travel because its free. If they have to pay for it, they won't in the same numbers and the DSP payment vanishes with it. Your particular vitriol towards the FTP is obsessive and lacks a real understanding of the state your employer is in. I'm all for a complete overhaul of the FTP, but are you all for a complete overhaul of the company you work for? No your not. All you want is to protect your own ass and your posts here are proof of it.

mickydoomsux

Grandeeod wrote: »

All you want is to protect your own ass and your posts here are proof of it.

Well, obviously. That's ultimately why people work, to look after themselves and the people they care about.

Of course I'm "protecting my own ass". Me and anyone else doing any other job would be a fool not to.

It's up to the company (whoever they may be) to be socially responsible or whatever other happy horse****. Just don't do it off the backs of the employees.

Grandeeod

end of the road wrote: »

the management in IE won't work with the staff and the staff don't trust them.

Wrong. You seem like a reasonable person, but I suggest you study the history of CIE and its industrial relations. Management are far from perfect. The shareholder is far from perfect, but staff have consistantly being protected from economic reality and enjoyed very good renumeration for what they do. The lack of trust has been driven by staff that point blank refuse to accept any step back in terms of basic pay. Invariably its drivers and to fully understand the ins and outs of that, you really need to study Irish railway history in general.

For your own sake google a bit, buy a few books, maybe even join the IRRS and avail of their library as it can provide you with more info than just a fantasy playback of history.

mickydoomsux

Grandeeod wrote: »

Wrong. You seem like a reasonable person, but I suggest you study the history of CIE and its industrial relations. Management are far from perfect. The shareholder is far from perfect, but staff have consistantly being protected from economic reality and enjoyed very good renumeration for what they do. The lack of trust has been driven by staff that point blank refuse to accept any step back in terms of basic pay. Invariably its drivers and to fully understand the ins and outs of that, you really need to study Irish railway history in general.

For your own sake google a bit, buy a few books, maybe even join the IRRS and avail of their library as it can provide you with more info than just a fantasy playback of history.

Irrelevant nonsense and essentially a slightly dressed up version of "DEM LAZY RAILWAY LADZ HAVE EVERYTHIN' !!!!!!1111!!!!"

end of the road

Grandeeod wrote: »

You have already revealed yourself to not having a clue about the history of CIE and I quote the luas as an example. Therefore your credibility is non existant. Understand the background of what you are talking about. If you think that the IE/CIE employees on this forum are providing an unbiased representation of their situation, then you keep on searching for that elusive IC train on the Rosslare route that your naievity deserves.

i'm well aware of the history, however i at least show respect for those on the ground who didn't make the decisians. i don't care about credibility and i understand what i'm talking about. i never said these peoples opinions were an unbiased representation of their situation, however i'd trust theirs over the tabloids. i don't even know what the last bit of your point means, but ICRS on the rosslare line aren't illusive, all though they don't work every service unlike the pet routes out of heuston, and i do admit having to avoid services known to be operated by suburban stock is rather tedious but at least its not full time like it was.

cdebru

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Any you know for certain there is no return?


.

Well I'd love to see the business case for it, have all the DCU students started using the dart to get to DCU ? Do the masses that attend the youth ballet company all arrive by train ? Have killester boys upped their dart usage ?

cdebru

Grandeeod wrote: »

You are still spinning that one.:D Withdraw free travel tomorrow and your company is ****ed more than it ever was. They travel because its free. If they have to pay for it, they won't in the same numbers and the DSP payment vanishes with it. Your particular vitriol towards the FTP is obsessive and lacks a real understanding of the state your employer is in. I'm all for a complete overhaul of the FTP, but are you all for a complete overhaul of the company you work for? No your not. All you want is to protect your own ass and your posts here are proof of it.

And that's not spinning ?

You wouldn't need them in the same numbers if they were paying their fare, irrespective no one is looking for free travel to be scrapped, just for it to be properly funded ie not on the backs of those working for CIE, and for the mass fraud to be tackled.

Infini

mickydoomsux wrote: »

We do personal track safety once a year and manual handling every three years and that's pretty much it. Our training is done at a "legal minimum requirement level" and is usually worked around you actually being in work doing a shift of your job. If people knew how thinly stretched the front line staff in IE were outside of Dublin, they would be shocked.

Much more than half my weekly hours are spent running a busy station on my own and best of luck to any customers with special needs etc. I'll get to you if i have time, unfortunately. If there an emergency operator for a crossing needed or a pilotman is needed then the station is literally abandoned and you'll have to fend for yourself and find out why trains are delayed.

Safety briefs and other nonsense that have no bearing on the actual job are updated by our (frankly useless) station manager every now and then but that's it really.

To be honest its not much better in Dublin either the northside stations are unmanned in the evenings some are locked up at 7pm like Kilbarrack and its not much better on the southside as theyre not filling the job vacancies since they think "oh the machines will take the money in". Ive seen tourists getting fed up with them and walking off for the bus cos noones there and theyre not good with machines. ~.~

Ironically enough years ago management got the agreement for putting in the machines in return for a promise that the jobs would be maintained. Yet another agreement broken. They also been adding more machines to the halts even though the staff there have told them they dont need more machines they need modern equipment the booking offices dont have credit card or leap card machines and the booking office machines are hand-me-downs from british rail from 35 years ago -_-

Want a prime example of waste? Spends hundreds of thousands of euro installing new validators, only ends up leaving them all open cos noones there to control them.

Grandeeod wrote: »

You are still spinning that one. Withdraw free travel tomorrow and your company is ****ed more than it ever was. They travel because its free. If they have to pay for it, they won't in the same numbers and the DSP payment vanishes with it. Your particular vitriol towards the FTP is obsessive and lacks a real understanding of the state your employer is in. I'm all for a complete overhaul of the FTP, but are you all for a complete overhaul of the company you work for? No your not. All you want is to protect your own ass and your posts here are proof of it.

How's it obsessive to point out the massive elephant in the room? The FTP is a joke atm I mean comeon theyve busted lads making proper perfect copies of the cornflakes box size ones and they never had any form of expiry whatsowever on them. It was grand when it was old people on it with the on peak restrictions the problem is its become a bloated monstrosity over the years from political interference thats its becoming untenable. Even some private bus operators looked at the scheme and walked away cos they saw it wasnt even worth the money yet alone the hassle. Theyre rolling out new cards but they've yet to announce when the old passes will be considered invalid even they keep pushing the date back for the tag on/off function for them too.

wolfmoon87

end of the road wrote: »

what do you mean? as in apply for the credit on the ticket even though you didn't travel? you can try but if you are caught well you know the rest

There were no trains running, so he couldn't have used his ticket anyway.
He has an annual ticket and he is entitled to a refund for the days that there was no service.

JayRoc

cdebru wrote: »

It is €145 a year that is roughly 3 visits a year whether you go or don't go in your case it would have cost you €2766 for 2 visits so probably the most expensive GP visits and definitely not free.

But it's not mandatory, is it?

So you're complaining about being given the option of GP care for less than three quid a week for you (and again, correct me if I'm wrong here) AND your family?

Most people I know would kill for these perks.

To be honest, I think this strike might be a huge blunder on the part of your unions, because apart from anything else it's drawn a lot of publicity to a pay and perks package that the vast majority of your customers weren't aware of.
Striking while IR employees are earning a minimum of 700 bills a week (that's according to one of your own guys earlier in this thread) along with a GP care scheme for peanuts and free travel, etc....just makes yee seem ungrateful and petty to most people, I would imagine.

may06

JayRoc wrote: »

But it's not mandatory, is it?

So you're complaining about being given the option of GP care for less than three quid a week for you (and again, correct me if I'm wrong here) AND your family?

Most people I know would kill for these perks.

To be honest, I think this strike might be a huge blunder on the part of your unions, because apart from anything else it's drawn a lot of publicity to a pay and perks package that the vast majority of your customers weren't aware of.
Striking while IR employees are earning a minimum of 700 bills a week (that's according to one of your own guys earlier in this thread) along with a GP care scheme for peanuts and free travel, etc....just makes yee seem ungrateful and petty to most people, I would imagine.

And what do you propose IR employees do? Sounds to me like your just jealous of the 'so called perks' the employees allegedly get? They're not happy with their pay and conditions and are well within their rights to go out on strike in defence of what's left of their earnings.

JayRoc

may06 wrote: »

Sounds to me like your just jealous of the 'so called perks' the employees allegedly get?

Hell yes, I'm jealous!

And like I said, the information I'm going off is from IR staff, mostly on this thread.

may06

JayRoc wrote: »

Hell yes, I'm jealous!

And like I said, the information I'm going off is from IR staff, mostly on this thread.

you didnt answer my question either.

steveblack

To make it easier to understand think of CIE as a army, the management as Generals and the workers as Soldiers.
If the war aint going well, mistakes are made and battles lost, the Generals are recalled from the front and possibly court martial. New Generals take over and if they cant be victorious the same happens to them.
Now in CIE managers aint winning any battles, but still keep getting promotions, Plenty of 4 star mangers who have never had a victory. Not one has ever been recalled or court martial. There are no consequences for them failing year after year.
In war you dont blame the soldiers for losing battles, but the Generals for bad decisions, so why all the hate for the CIE workers?
The public would be marching on the streets if the army was suffering as many defeats as CIE , demanding the government do something about the generals making a mess.

I suppose its easier just to blame the workers and not your betters earning 100k+ a year for their incompetence.

Copyerselveson

Grandeeod wrote: »

Wrong. You seem like a reasonable person, but I suggest you study the history of CIE and its industrial relations. Management are far from perfect. The shareholder is far from perfect, but staff have consistantly being protected from economic reality and enjoyed very good renumeration for what they do. The lack of trust has been driven by staff that point blank refuse to accept any step back in terms of basic pay. Invariably its drivers and to fully understand the ins and outs of that, you really need to study Irish railway history in general.

For your own sake google a bit, buy a few books, maybe even join the IRRS and avail of their library as it can provide you with more info than just a fantasy playback of history.

It might be constructive if you could set out your vision of public transport in Ireland and how it should be organised and what level of infrastructure should be there to support it?

mickydoomsux

steveblack wrote: »

To make it easier to understand think of CIE as a army, the management as Generals and the workers as Soldiers.
If the war aint going well, mistakes are made and battles lost, the Generals are recalled from the front and possibly court martial. New Generals take over and if they cant be victorious the same happens to them.
Now in CIE managers aint winning any battles, but still keep getting promotions, Plenty of 4 star mangers who have never had a victory. Not one has ever been recalled or court martial. There are no consequences for them failing year after year.
In war you dont blame the soldiers for losing battles, but the Generals for bad decisions, so why all the hate for the CIE workers?
The public would be marching on the streets if the army was suffering as many defeats as CIE , demanding the government do something about the generals making a mess.

I suppose its easier just to blame the workers and not your betters earning 100k+ a year for their incompetence.

People actually see the frontline staff so they are the easiest ones to channel their anger at.

Managers just get shifted around constantly and there are new (pointless) jobs created for the ones that have nothing to do. The organization is ridiculously top-heavy but the general public don't know/see that.

JayRoc

may06 wrote: »

you didnt answer my question either.

You mean what do I "think they should do"?
I think they should probably put up with a temporary pay cut of a tenner a week and be aware of how the strike is being perceived by most of their customers.

Look, I'm not a bandwagon jumper and I do sympathise with workers who feel they are being exploited, it's just that nothing I've heard so far convinces me that the immense damage to the reputation of IR staff that the strike is causing, is justified.

devnull

steveblack wrote: »

To make it easier to understand think of CIE as a army, the management as Generals and the workers as Soldiers.
If the war aint going well, mistakes are made and battles lost, the Generals are recalled from the front and possibly court martial. New Generals take over and if they cant be victorious the same happens to them.
Now in CIE managers aint winning any battles, but still keep getting promotions, Plenty of 4 star mangers who have never had a victory. Not one has ever been recalled or court martial. There are no consequences for them failing year after year.
In war you dont blame the soldiers for losing battles, but the Generals for bad decisions, so why all the hate for the CIE workers?
The public would be marching on the streets if the army was suffering as many defeats as CIE , demanding the government do something about the generals making a mess.

I suppose its easier just to blame the workers and not your betters earning 100k+ a year for their incompetence.

Are these the same greedy people who have took a pay cut almost 4 times higher than the staff are refusing?

Although even to compare yourself to the army is laughable, because quite frankly, if CIE staff think they are on equal footing to the army, then that says it all.

steveblack

All the haters here are full of it.

" I'd love a job like those in CIE, i would gladly retrain and do the job for €20k a year."
Dublin Bus have been hiring for the last year and still cant fill the job vacancies, and they are paying more than €20k, so what are you waiting for, come and work in paradise.

" In my job we all took massive pay cuts to keep the company alive."
Look at the times that they post here, they are all over the place. No rhyme or reason , no "shift" pattern.
Let me guess, they suffer from insomnia? Keeps then up all night and day so they post here.
Ask them what they work at and you get a reply "I dont think its pertinent to the discussion".
We dont want to know where you work, but in what field and they refuse to say.

The majority of haters here are Walter Mitty types, they most likely dont work possibly never have and/or have been turned down for a job in CIE.

noodler

steveblack wrote: »

All the haters here are full of it.

" I'd love a job like those in CIE, i would gladly retrain and do the job for €20k a year."
Dublin Bus have been hiring for the last year and still cant fill the job vacancies, and they are paying more than €20k, so what are you waiting for, come and work in paradise.

" In my job we all took massive pay cuts to keep the company alive."
Look at the times that they post here, they are all over the place. No rhyme or reason , no "shift" pattern.
Let me guess, they suffer from insomnia? Keeps then up all night and day so they post here.
Ask them what they work at and you get a reply "I dont think its pertinent to the discussion".
We dont want to know where you work, but in what field and they refuse to say.

The majority of haters here are Walter Mitty types, they most likely dont work possibly never have and/or have been turned down for a job in CIE.

It is possible albeit unlikely.

More probably is a large number of taxpayers who have already taken paycuts or lost their jobs during the recession and do not want to be held to ransom by workers looking for more State money which isn't currently available.


I guess its how you spin it.

Infini

mickydoomsux wrote: »

People actually see the frontline staff so they are the easiest ones to channel their anger at.

Managers just get shifted around constantly and there are new (pointless) jobs created for the ones that have nothing to do. The organization is ridiculously top-heavy but the general public don't know/see that.

Pretty much this. Theres simply too much managment in the place and it needs a serious culling down there because the frontline jobs are the one dissapearing cos of them.

JayRoc wrote:

But it's not mandatory, is it?

It is. We all pay into it wether we go or not. For Several years I never even went to the doctor or rarely once in a year.

JayRoc wrote:

So you're complaining about being given the option of GP care for less than three quid a week for you (and again, correct me if I'm wrong here) AND your family?

Where was the complaint again? -.O

JayRoc wrote:

Most people I know would kill for these perks.

To be honest, I think this strike might be a huge blunder on the part of your unions, because apart from anything else it's drawn a lot of publicity to a pay and perks package that the vast majority of your customers weren't aware of.
Striking while IR employees are earning a minimum of 700 bills a week (that's according to one of your own guys earlier in this thread) along with a GP care scheme for peanuts and free travel, etc....just makes yee seem ungrateful and petty to most people, I would imagine.

To be honest I dont think it has. Only haters I've seen are the usual trolls on the news sites but the general public which we were out with while picketing seem to support us. Also I dont make minimum €700 a week noone bar clerical or drivers at the top of the scale could make that kind of money. Remember they always quote the amount made before taxes to try and overinflate the actual amount of money people are on. Also once your making over a certain amount your hit with the top rate of tax which means for example if your doing overtime outside your contracted hours you can end up with just over €60 after tax for that 9 1/2hr shift. So much for perks C_C

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Infini2 wrote: »

Pretty much this. Theres simply too much managment in the place and it needs a serious culling down there because the frontline jobs are the one dissapearing cos of them.



It is. We all pay into it wether we go or not. For Several years I never even went to the doctor or rarely once in a year.



Where was the complaint again? -.O



To be honest I dont think it has. Only haters I've seen are the usual trolls on the news sites but the general public which we were out with while picketing seem to support us. Also I dont make minimum €700 a week noone bar clerical or drivers at the top of the scale could make that kind of money. Remember they always quote the amount made before taxes to try and overinflate the actual amount of money people are on. Also once your making over a certain amount your hit with the top rate of tax which means for example if your doing overtime outside your contracted hours you can end up with just over €60 after tax for that 9 1/2hr shift. So much for perks C_C

Same for every worker in the country, IR staff aren't unique in that.

JayRoc

Infini2 wrote: »

Pretty much this. Theres simply too much managment in the place and it needs a serious culling down there because the frontline jobs are the one dissapearing cos of them.



It is. We all pay into it wether we go or not. For Several years I never even went to the doctor or rarely once in a year.



Where was the complaint again? -.O



To be honest I dont think it has. Only haters I've seen are the usual trolls on the news sites but the general public which we were out with while picketing seem to support us. Also I dont make minimum €700 a week noone bar clerical or drivers at the top of the scale could make that kind of money. Remember they always quote the amount made before taxes to try and overinflate the actual amount of money people are on. Also once your making over a certain amount your hit with the top rate of tax which means for example if your doing overtime outside your contracted hours you can end up with just over €60 after tax for that 9 1/2hr shift. So much for perks C_C

You had said that
"About 36k would be the lowest end of the scale at depotman grade" which'd be 700 quid a week.
Before tax, obviously. When people discuss annual salaries it's usually understood the amounts mentioned are before tax. And as for being taxed more the more you earn....well, yeah, that's how every employee pays tax.

Your personal experiences on the pickets are interesting, as they seem to contradict what I've heard of people's opinions. Probably the case that most IR customers who've been giving out behind your back probably haven't the stones to argue with you in person.

I have personally offered verbal support to strikers on the picket before when I thought their actions were justified, I just don't think that's the case here.
And I sincerely believe that the majority of your customers would agree.

monument

Focusing on posters will get you infracted and/or banned.

- mod

foggy_lad

may06 wrote: »

And what do you propose IR employees do? Sounds to me like your just jealous of the 'so called perks' the employees allegedly get? They're not happy with their pay and conditions and are well within their rights to go out on strike in defence of what's left of their earnings.

There is no guarantee that their strike action will not finish off the company and leave them with nothing except statutory redundancy and a long search for a job that provides similar perks.

may06

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is no guarantee that their strike action will not finish off the company and leave them with nothing except statutory redundancy and a long search for a job that provides similar perks.

Can you honestly see the entire company & its rail network shutting down completely so?

foggy_lad

may06 wrote: »

Can you honestly see the entire company & its rail network shutting down completely so?

Yes, why wouldn't it be wound up if losing more than what is acceptable to the government and the taxpayer. They are already putting what is left of the freight business at risk with the strikes.

Infini

foggy_lad wrote: »

Yes, why wouldn't it be wound up if losing more than what is acceptable to the government and the taxpayer. They are already putting what is left of the freight business at risk with the strikes.

Your forgetting one factor here. While its a company as such its also an INFRASTRUCTURE as well. Shutting down the railway does noone any good not to mention the shytestorm that would be unleased across the entire sector if they tried. The goverment is also the one that helped create the mess by undermining the company via the subsidy and dodgy pass scheme thats affected both rail and busses.

If anything whats needed is a look at the entire thing the lads on the ground have stated repeatedly theres too much managment and bureaucracy up top not to mention poor if not ridiculous decisionmaking. As said before its not just about the pay its the broken agreements, bad decisions and utter mismanagment that are the real problems the pay cut was simply the catalyst to setting off the whole thing. Problem is even though its been explained over and some people keep thinking its just about the pay cut.

may06

foggy_lad wrote: »

Yes, why wouldn't it be wound up if losing more than what is acceptable to the government and the taxpayer. They are already putting what is left of the freight business at risk with the strikes.

Absolutely no way will it shut down, to suggest so is ridiculous :eek:

end of the road

wolfmoon87 wrote: »

There were no trains running, so he couldn't have used his ticket anyway.
He has an annual ticket and he is entitled to a refund for the days that there was no service.

and? for a start i'm well aware he's entitled to a refund. however he mentioned credit along with it and the word "dishonest" up to him to clarify his point

end of the road

JayRoc wrote: »

be aware of how the strike is being perceived by most of their customers.

why would they bother, if the majority of the customers are of the opinion "da grdy ie bstrds" then they should just not bother caring. as it isn't the case and much of the public do understand whats going on and why i would imagine the staff do care and really want this to be resolved as quick as possible so the second lot of strikes don't go ahead.

end of the road

noodler wrote: »

It is possible albeit unlikely.

More probably is a large number of taxpayers who have already taken paycuts or lost their jobs during the recession and do not want to be held to ransom by workers looking for more State money which isn't currently available.


I guess its how you spin it.

nobody is being held to ransom, we lost a couple of days travel for the greater good, and it will make people appreciate what they have

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

Yes, why wouldn't it be wound up if losing more than what is acceptable to the government and the taxpayer.

every public service loses more then is acceptable to the government. as for the taxpayer what we think is acceptable is irrelevant as many wouldn't want losses and others won't mind as the services benefit them or they recognise services have a benefit to others. that my friend is why we have "the greater good"

foggy_lad wrote: »

They are already putting what is left of the freight business at risk with the strikes.

they aren't. not everyone in the company was on strike. i'm sure drivers from the other unions would have been drafted in to drive the freight if it had to run. as far as i know freight doesn't run on a sunday or monday anyway.

markpb

end of the road wrote: »

nobody is being held to ransom, we lost a couple of days travel for the greater good, and it will make people appreciate what they have

Greater good? I presume you mean better wages for IR staff? Let's not get carried away.

may06

markpb wrote: »

Greater good? I presume you mean better wages for IR staff? Let's not get carried away.

Strike wasn't about better wages -it's already being explained in great detail on this thread what is was about.

noodler

end of the road wrote: »

nobody is being held to ransom, we lost a couple of days travel for the greater good, and it will make people appreciate what they have

I assume you mean make IR employees appreciate their jobs?

Dravokivich

JayRoc wrote: »

You had said that
"About 36k would be the lowest end of the scale at depotman grade" which'd be 700 quid a week.
Before tax, obviously. When people discuss annual salaries it's usually understood the amounts mentioned are before tax. And as for being taxed more the more you earn....well, yeah, that's how every employee pays tax.

Your personal experiences on the pickets are interesting, as they seem to contradict what I've heard of people's opinions. Probably the case that most IR customers who've been giving out behind your back probably haven't the stones to argue with you in person.

I have personally offered verbal support to strikers on the picket before when I thought their actions were justified, I just don't think that's the case here.
And I sincerely believe that the majority of your customers would agree.

It appears the wage bill is an easy target to point at, without other things being considered. So the workers in Irish Rail become a focus. The workers then try to point the focus to people with the free travel passes.

The issue with Irish Rail can't truly be as simple as that. Either the staff are paid too much, or there's too much written off to free travel.

It's all too much of a distraction for my liking.

There's other issue's that Mickydoomsux has been alluding to with management on a local level within a station. If there's so many small things like that just getting brushed aside, who's checking whether or not they add up to a big overall issue?

If you reduce the wage bill and it doesn't fix the finance problem (a outcome I'd expect), what does that tell us? The staff are still being paid too much?

The wage bill should be the last thing looked at. But apart from publishing changes to services/timetables, it doesn't appear to me that Irish Rail have done enough before it, to get to that point.

What else have they done to assess their outgoings and manage it?

end of the road

noodler wrote: »

I assume you mean make IR employees appreciate their jobs?

to try make IE a better managed company. ie staff appreciate their jobs very much hence they are trying to save the company dispite the major shareholders continuous undermining

cdebru

Dravokivich wrote: »

It appears the wage bill is an easy target to point at, without other things being considered. So the workers in Irish Rail become a focus. The workers then try to point the focus to people with the free travel passes.

The issue with Irish Rail can't truly be as simple as that. Either the staff are paid too much, or there's too much written off to free travel.

It's all too much of a distraction for my liking.

There's other issue's that Mickydoomsux has been alluding to with management on a local level within a station. If there's so many small things like that just getting brushed aside, who's checking whether or not they add up to a big overall issue?

If you reduce the wage bill and it doesn't fix the finance problem (a outcome I'd expect), what does that tell us? The staff are still being paid too much?

The wage bill should be the last thing looked at. But apart from publishing changes to services/timetables, it doesn't appear to me that Irish Rail have done enough before it, to get to that point.

What else have they done to assess their outgoings and manage it?

I agree, wages are the easy target, especially for management as addressing waste and lost revenue begs the question why didn't you do this before? Why have you sat on your hands and watched millions being wasted or lost and never did anything ?

Much easier to blame the employees for being on less than the average wage for being overpaid.
It is lazy and poor management the fact that they returned looking for more cuts just 10 months after agreeing to cuts and giving a guarantee they wouldn't be back. One trick ponies comes to mind.

cdebru

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is no guarantee that their strike action will not finish off the company and leave them with nothing except statutory redundancy and a long search for a job that provides similar perks.

Seriously ? The state will close the dart and commuter rail services ? Won't hold my breath on that one. What would be the cost of an extra 100,000 cars trundling into Dublin everyday I wonder ?

cdebru

JayRoc wrote: »

But it's not mandatory, is it?

So you're complaining about being given the option of GP care for less than three quid a week for you (and again, correct me if I'm wrong here) AND your family?

Most people I know would kill for these perks.

To be honest, I think this strike might be a huge blunder on the part of your unions, because apart from anything else it's drawn a lot of publicity to a pay and perks package that the vast majority of your customers weren't aware of.
Striking while IR employees are earning a minimum of 700 bills a week (that's according to one of your own guys earlier in this thread) along with a GP care scheme for peanuts and free travel, etc....just makes yee seem ungrateful and petty to most people, I would imagine.

I don't work for IE so I wasn't complaining about anything, but I love how you can imagine how most people think, you should get a job with Redc they waste money asking people how they think they only need to call you.

mickydoomsux

foggy_lad wrote: »

Yes, why wouldn't it be wound up if losing more than what is acceptable to the government and the taxpayer.

Are we going to roll up the entire public health system at the same time as well?

The overspend there runs in to the tens if not hundreds of millions per annum.

foggy_lad

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Are we going to roll up the entire public health system at the same time as well?

The overspend there runs in to the tens if not hundreds of millions per annum.

Cuts are being made in the health services that affect everybody from the lowest grades and also patients and those in greatest need who have had their medical cards taken from them, so why should irish rail employees not have to take the same levels of reduction as just about everyone else in the state?