Why do people want to watch videos of other people being beheaded?

Muise...

c-note wrote: »

I know how you feel and would have said the same at one stage,
but now I know different. I'm not suggesting you watch the video, I'm suggesting that you don't know how watching such a video will affect the way you view the world/humanity.

For one thing I now understand just how sanitised news reports are. To repeat myself, don't recommend people watch.

I don't want to view the world through a bloody lens, c-note. I flinch when I read reports of murders and wars, and usually go on to read about the context and consequences - none of which I could get from a video of murder.

I also flinch at still images such that b/w photo of a Viet Cong kid about to be shot in the head - even Goya's 3rd of May 1808 makes me shudder. But all they do is horrify me.

That is why I value language and analysis over graphic film footage. I think those who say such horrific imagery will somehow cause us to rise up and change things are placing too much faith in propaganda and too little faith in humanity.

beks101

I don’t think anyone’s doubting the fact that this is an horrific propaganda video.
I just don’t personally enjoy being told that I’m lying to myself or to others about my motivations in watching something like this. How arrogant and ignorant can one be? Who the hell are you to tell anyone how they come to understand the world and inform themselves? Just because you select not to watch these things, means that no-one else could possibly find any value in doing so?

If no-one watched, they wouldn’t have heard the British accent of the IS militant who killed Foley – representative of a growing group of British jihadis and foreign fighters in Iraq and Syria and a growing threat to Europe and the wider world. International security services wouldn’t have been alerted to his identity, which is slowly emerging, or to the inherent threat implicated in having a militant with a western passport fronting one of these videos. If no-one watched the video, they wouldn’t have seen the face of the other US journalist, the next guy whose life is apparently next on the line.

They’re bloody and disgusting and propaganda-laden videos not fit for most people’s eyes, and an insult to the valuable life of a man who was widely loved and respected and did great work within his profession. If I knew him, I wouldn’t want to remember him like this. His parents don’t want to remember him like this. I agree with most news networks and newspapers’ policies not to show the video and to simply run with a still image. But there is information to be gathered from these videos, there is an understanding of exactly the kind of barbarity this terrorist group uses as its own currency and for a lot of people who choose to see it all as a means of deeper understanding of an important global issue – they’re not an exercise in sitting back and chewing popcorn and letting morbid fascination take hold.

Muise...

beks101 wrote: »

I don’t think anyone’s doubting the fact that this is an horrific propaganda video.
I just don’t personally enjoy being told that I’m lying to myself or to others about my motivations in watching something like this. How arrogant and ignorant can one be? Who the hell are you to tell anyone how they come to understand the world and inform themselves? Just because you select not to watch these things, means that no-one else could possibly find any value in doing so?

If no-one watched, they wouldn’t have heard the British accent of the IS militant who killed Foley – representative of a growing group of British jihadis and foreign fighters in Iraq and Syria and a growing threat to Europe and the wider world. International security services wouldn’t have been alerted to his identity, which is slowly emerging, or to the inherent threat implicated in having a militant with a western passport fronting one of these videos. If no-one watched the video, they wouldn’t have seen the face of the other US journalist, the next guy whose life is apparently next on the line.

They’re bloody and disgusting and propaganda-laden videos not fit for most people’s eyes, and an insult to the valuable life of a man who was widely loved and respected and did great work within his profession. If I knew him, I wouldn’t want to remember him like this. His parents don’t want to remember him like this. I agree with most news networks and newspapers’ policies not to show the video and to simply run with a still image. But there is information to be gathered from these videos, there is an understanding of exactly the kind of barbarity this terrorist group uses as its own currency and for a lot of people who choose to see it all as a means of deeper understanding of an important global issue – they’re not an exercise in sitting back and chewing popcorn and letting morbid fascination take hold.

Are we crowd-sourcing intelligence and security now?

CiDeRmAn

The videos are not equivalent to photojournalism.
The former is a tool to spread terror and force an outcome with the murder of people in the most graphic manner.
The latter is the documenting of scenes and events that would otherwise go unseen by the public, broadening the awareness of the viewer.
The difference is therefore in the beheading broadcasts the audience is both the purpose and target of the videos, without you to watch the kidnapped individuals would have been shot rather than have their demise made into a deliberate public spectacle. Photojournalism, in part, seeks to illuminate events of joy and sorrow, lives and deaths, that would otherwise go unseen.
Watching the videos means that you take part in their function, purpose and are not an objective bystander, passive. You are why the person was taken , degraded and murdered publicly, at least in part.
You do not need to see these videos to be geopolitically aware and informed any more than you need to watch pornography to be capable of understanding relationships.

Barely There

beks101 wrote: »

If no-one watched, they wouldn’t have heard the British accent of the IS militant who killed Foley – representative of a growing group of British jihadis and foreign fighters in Iraq and Syria and a growing threat to Europe and the wider world. International security services wouldn’t have been alerted to his identity, which is slowly emerging, or to the inherent threat implicated in having a militant with a western passport fronting one of these videos. If no-one watched the video, they wouldn’t have seen the face of the other US journalist, the next guy whose life is apparently next on the line.

Good justification as to why the security services would want to watch the video.

How does this tie in with you wanting to watch it?

beks101

Barely There wrote: »

Good justification as to why the security services would want to watch the video.

How does this tie in with you wanting to watch it?

Did you read my post?

CiDeRmAn

Barely There wrote: »

Good justification as to why the security services would want to watch the video.

How does this tie in with you wanting to watch it?

Good point.
I think there's a morbid curiosity , nested in our western secure lives and this kind of atrocity becomes simply part of a continuum of reality tv and buckets of ice water on a president on Facebook, with little more relevance than that to most.
Gives them something to wax lyrical about in work or to their mates, making them sound knowledgeable about the world and conflicts within, but it doesn't.
Its a fallacy and , deep down, I think they know it.
Saying to someone "I have seen the beheading video too, wasn't it awful" is a lot easier than having a debate on the region and exploring the ways that a rational human being can do this to another rational human being.

Barely There

beks101 wrote: »

Did you read my post?

Yes.

I found it to be a rambling attempt at a quasi-justification for watching reality torture porn.

It's amusing to watch posters tie themselves in knots over the issue.

If you just admitted that it was morbid curiosity which drove you, it wouldn't make you a bad person, just a bit weak willed.

dashdoll

I could never and would never want to watch a video like this. I do get the idea that it resonates with people in a stronger way when they see it unfolding before them but for me, I was so upset when I read about James Foley that I wouldn't be physically able to watch a video of someone being killed in such a barbaric manner.

I was on twitter this morning and clicked on a hashtag along the lines of #ripjamesfoley. As I scrolled down I came across a photo which I can only presume is a still shot from the video. Now, it must have only caught my eye for a millisecond before I turned away so that I didn't even focus properly on it but had such an effect on me that I was shaking for moments after. This is not something that I personally could sit and watch voluntarily.

I do think the media should without doubt implement a blackout on this sort of thing.....making it available does little more than play into the hands of these savages. 99.99% of people do not need to see such things to understand the gravity and depravity of it all.

Bang_Bang

It's the same as watching "cock and ball torture" some folk are fascinated by it and other folk are fascinated by watching people being killed by drug cartels or terrorists. Just look at the amount of websites that are dedicated to both above.

There is a large portion of people on this planet that get twisted kicks from looking at this stuff.

beks101

Barely There wrote: »

Yes.

I found it to be a rambling attempt at a quasi-justification for watching reality torture porn.

It's amusing to watch posters tie themselves in knots over the issue.

If you just admitted that it was morbid curiosity which drove you, it wouldn't make you a bad person, just a bit weak willed.

I find it amusing to watch your lightning-quick reactions to knock down any and every explanation given as to why someone would chosse to watch these videos that doesn't fall in line with your own personal belief.

I watched it, it disturbed me, it also deepened my understanding of what IS stands for and how they operate. I'm a journalist so I watch everything.

You didn't, you won't and you simply wouldn't benefit from it. Fair enough. That's your prerogative. People see, feel and understand the world in different ways. If you can't grasp that, we may as well close this thread right now because we'll continue to go around in circles and it's more than a little boring to debate intelligently with someone who can't see outside their own world view.

Lord Trollington

Whatever about watching it, (I have watched on in the past and what is seen cannot be unseen) I really am struggling to come to terms with the mindset of the people who carry out such an act on another human being.

I know they are "extremists" and "fundamentalists" but how a human being who have the ability to think and reason out thoughts in their own mind can do this to another human is beyond what I can comprehend in my mind.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

beks101 wrote: »

I just don’t personally enjoy being told that I’m lying to myself or to others about my motivations in watching something like this. How arrogant and ignorant can one be? Who the hell are you to tell anyone how they come to understand the world and inform themselves? Just because you select not to watch these things, means that no-one else could possibly find any value in doing so?

Do you know what beks, you're right about that bit. Now, I've read your reasons and I honestly still don't get it, but there is something about the effect those videos have that is inherently outside the grasp of language. Just because I don't understand somebody else's reasons for engaging with imagery like that doesn't mean I get to project my own shít onto them.

(I'd still say I disagree with people watching these particular videos purely because it's exactly what those fcukers want though).

Macavity.

Bang_Bang wrote: »

It's the same as watching "cock and ball torture" some folk are fascinated by it and other folk are fascinated by watching people being killed by drug cartels or terrorists. Just look at the amount of websites that are dedicated to both above.

There is a large portion of people on this planet that get twisted kicks from looking at this stuff.

Actually, I read an interesting article before on how when you watch videos of this nature you get an adrenaline kick which leads you to subconsciously wanting to see more.

The whole "you have a duty to watch it" argument is a load of sophistic bull**** tbh, and really these sort of videos should be ignored as much as possible.

c-note

Muise... wrote: »

I don't want to view the world through a bloody lens, c-note. I flinch when I read reports of murders and wars, and usually go on to read about the context and consequences - none of which I could get from a video of murder.

I also flinch at still images such that b/w photo of a Viet Cong kid about to be shot in the head - even Goya's 3rd of May 1808 makes me shudder. But all they do is horrify me.

That is why I value language and analysis over graphic film footage. I think those who say such horrific imagery will somehow cause us to rise up and change things are placing too much faith in propaganda and too little faith in humanity.

Humanity has done wonders in Syria and Iraq and gazefor the last two years.

pablomakaveli

beks101 wrote: »

I watched it, it disturbed me, it also deepened my understanding of what IS stands for and how they operate. I'm a journalist so I watch everything.

For the bit i've highlighted, how? How does it deepen your understanding of them. You know they beheaded him before you watched the video. You already knew what a horrible act it was. You presumbly knew that ISIS have and are capable of brutal acts given the stories coming from Iraq and Syria and that they aim to establish a Caliphate.

What possible extra information, that will deepen your personal understanding, does watching the video garner for you?

FloatingVoter

Macavity. wrote: »

Actually, I read an interesting article before on how when you watch videos of this nature you get an adrenaline kick which leads you to subconsciously wanting to see more.

The whole "you have a duty to watch it" argument is a load of sophistic bull**** tbh, and really these sort of videos should be ignored as much as possible.

That's academic. Applies to child pornography. Probably torture porn as well. Its why the people in a unit in Trinity and the Guards who monitor the darkweb for child abuse need to do psych tests on a regular basis.
They're paid to watch and watch for clues as to who perpetrates the acts involved. The hope is to stop them happening now and in the future.
Anybody else watching is just a cheerleader.

Barely There

beks101 wrote: »

I watched it, it disturbed me, it also deepened my understanding of what IS stands for and how they operate. I'm a journalist so I watch everything.

Presumably you watch kidde-porn too, so you can understand it better and how paedophiles operate?

c-note

Muise... wrote: »

I don't want to view the world through a bloody lens, c-note. I flinch when I read reports of murders and wars, and usually go on to read about the context and consequences - none of which I could get from a video of murder.

I also flinch at still images such that b/w photo of a Viet Cong kid about to be shot in the head - even Goya's 3rd of May 1808 makes me shudder. But all they do is horrify me.

That is why I value language and analysis over graphic film footage. I think those who say such horrific imagery will somehow cause us to rise up and change things are placing too much faith in propaganda and too little faith in humanity.

Humanity has done wonders in Syria and Iraq and gaza for the last two years. And rose tinted glasses are no better than a bloody lens. There are some sick ppl who get pleasure from watching this ****, but not everyone.

Lord Trollington

Barely There wrote: »

Presumably you watch kidde-porn too, so you can understand it better and how paedophiles operate?

Pi$$ poor analogy.

KungPao

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Whatever about watching it, (I have watched on in the past and what is seen cannot be unseen) I really am struggling to come to terms with the mindset of the people who carry out such an act on another human being.

I know they are "extremists" and "fundamentalists" but how a human being who have the ability to think and reason out thoughts in their own mind can do this to another human is beyond what I can comprehend in my mind.

They are mental. As in they have serious mental issues. In the west we catch serial killers (perhaps) and prosecute them etc, but in lawless lands they can do whatever the **** they want - they make the rules. Then you have more crazy people funding them etc.

It's like a playground for insane killers who have nobody to fear. And when you mix in an extreme devotion and belief in fantasy gods, it just gets even crazier.

Macavity.

The CP comparisons are stupid, lads. Really stupid.

Barely There

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Pi$$ poor analogy.

Macavity. wrote: »

The CP comparisons are stupid, lads. Really stupid.

I fail to see how.

If you're going to use the excuse 'you have to actually watch it to truly understand it', then it's a reasonable question to ask where the line is drawn and why the line is drawn there.

buried

Its extremely telling that suspected and known Islamist radicals in the west will not view, share or upload these brutal images themselves for fear of prosecution but they know full well others in the west will do their pathetic job for them. Islamic fundemantalist hypocrites use the freedoms we have here, freedoms that they call 'evil' by the way, such as the internet, to broadcast their brutal fascist ideology and they know full well supposedly civilised people here in the west will lap it up.People on here are rightly saying "I need to do something to stop this", and you can, by not watching and increasing the view count of fascist Islamist propaganda. People want to "understand better the likes of ISIS" fair enough, there are countless books on Islamic fundamentalism from its inception right down to the groups involved today, maybe read some of those if you wish to gain more actual knowledge about it.

takamichinoku

Barely There wrote: »

I fail to see how.

If you're going to use the excuse 'you have to actually watch it to truly understand it', then it's a reasonable question to ask where the line is drawn and why the line is drawn there.

It's more jumping to an extreme to derail the topic imo. Detectives have to sit through that stuff, I'd imagine there have been psychiatrical studies done on a lot of it too, which would be of little merit without actually watching it.
For most people it's pretty easy to realise it's far worse than you really need to know to understand your stance on. Some other things aren't as easy to comprehend the act of at all.


I've watched a good few shockingly graphic documentaries, there's some merit to showing shocking acts but a lot of the time it arguably cheapens the overall presentation if all it does is shock. You need to give some idea of what's involved Though.

beks101

pablomakaveli wrote: »

For the bit i've highlighted, how? How does it deepen your understanding of them. You know they beheaded him before you watched the video. You already knew what a horrible act it was. You presumbly knew that ISIS have and are capable of brutal acts given the stories coming from Iraq and Syria and that they aim to establish a Caliphate.

What possible extra information, that will deepen your personal understanding, does watching the video garner for you?

Foley's expression as he recited the propaganda script in front of him. His tone of voice, his body language, all the signs that he was clearly under a duress that most of us will thankfully never know.

That told me more than the act itself.

This is how I inform myself and this is how I learn. I watch every fcuking piece of sh1t video out there and I build my own understanding based on everything to hand. I access all the information available.

I get that most people don't and I respect that.

And that's about all the explaining I feel like doing because this took a turn for the tedious about ten pages ago.

Barely There

beks101 wrote: »

This is how I inform myself and this is how I learn. I watch every fcuking piece of sh1t video out there and I build my own understanding based on everything to hand. I access all the information available.

I presume your Employer knows about this and has you regularly psychologically assessed and monitored, if you're doing this as part of your job?

sbsquarepants

Macavity. wrote: »

The CP comparisons are stupid, lads. Really stupid.

Explain why that is?

Seems a perfectly valid comparison to me. You either need to see the thing with your own eyes to fully understand it or you don't? It can't change according to a statute book!
If watching evil deeds on film somehow leads to positive outcomes as some people here claim then we should all be watching it, get it fúcking eradicated for once and for all, it simply doesn't work that way. Watching does absolutely nothing except satisfy the curiosity of the watcher, you know full well in advance whether it's good, bad or indifferent.

Sittingpretty

Unless you are faced with the task of investigating such horrible murder videos, there is no legitimate reason other than morbid fascination to watch somebody have their head removed from their body.

Macavity.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Explain why that is?

Seems a perfectly valid comparison to me. You either need to see the thing with your own eyes to fully understand it or you don't? It can't change according to a statute book!
If watching evil deeds on film somehow leads to positive outcomes as some people here claim then we should all be watching it, get it fúcking eradicated for once and for all, it simply doesn't work that way. Watching does absolutely nothing except satisfy the curiosity of the watcher.

I've already stated that people saying they have "a duty to watch" is nonsense imo, but the CP comparison is just the ultimate OTT straw man argument that is so typical of this site.