Toilet training puppy

Cookies N Cream

Hi All
We are toilet training our puppy. After we feed our little guy in the morning. We put him out after before leaving for work. Sometimes he will do a wee. We leave paper out for him inside.(have also tried not putting paper down same happens) By the time I go to the car and back to the kitchen he has done a poo. He will do this every morning wait for us to leave and he does it. Tried leaving him out for longer but its like he is doing this on purpose. Any ideas how to get him to do his business outside in the morning?

Many thanks

DBB

Hi op,
Don't worry, he's not doing it on purpose.
Simply putting him outside does not actively teach them to toilet outside. When you simply put him out, chances are he spends his time wondering what he's there for, and why? He's probably a little anxious about being outside on his own.
It's only when you let him back in that he feels relief at being back where he likes being, at which point his brain reminds him that he needs to poop. And so, that's what he does, being the here-and-now animals that they are.
It is so, so common for pups that are left outside alone on the assumption that they'll naturally do what they have to do, to become "reverse housetrained". A few repetitions of coming back inside, feeling relieved at not being alone any more, followed by toileting, followed by the intrinsic reinforcement that toileting brings, and voila! Pup thinks that inside is the spot to go.
There is also a danger that he's pooping when you leave out of anxiety. Being left alone can be pretty upsetting for a pup, and the anxiety can and often does lead to a loosening of the bowels. This effect is seriously exacerbated if you punish your pup for toileting inside, and if you punish your pup when you return to find a present on the floor. Unless you catch a pup right in the middle of the act, giving out to him will not teach him not to toilet indoors, but it will teach him to be worried about what happens when he hears his owner returning, because to him, they're prone to inexplicable random outbursts of anger when they come in the door. I've known quite a few dogs who poop inside specifically at the moment they hear their owner returning. Not good.
Even when we do catch them right in the act, we have to be really measured, and not make a huge fuss. Pups should never feel worried about toileting in the presence of their owners.
There are a gazillion threads here on effective housetraining, if you do a search. Newspaper is not a great idea, and it is critical that you play a more active role in his housetraining by accompanying him outside at times he needs to go, and praising and rewarding him with a delicious food treat when he goes. This allows the pup to learn that going outside is much more rewarding than going inside. Dogs, being reinforcement junkies, will always choose the behaviours that work best for them. It's up to you, the owner, to make sure that toileting outside works best for your pup.

Edited to add: here's a thread that links through to other threads that give good hints about how to effectively housetrain a pup, and how not to make some of the more common mistakes and assumptions that owners often make.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=89721158

Cookies N Cream

Thanks very much for your input very helpful.

Keep everything positive - praise for going outside, completely ignore when he poops inside.

I found a crate really helped with my dog, perhaps you could read up about them. He got to know after consistently practicing that when I let him out of the crate he'd go straight outside to pee and this became a habit. The crate was his safe place and he never peed or pooped in it once (at the beginning I let him out every 20 minutes or so for a pee). You will need to crate train also (quite easy to do for most dogs), but it will be so worth it!

Don't give him any chances to mess up. Take your dog out all the time for the first few weeks, not just when he eats. Every 15 minutes or so. Give him as much opportunity to go outside as you possibly can and be there to offer praise and a reward. When he gets better use less treats but lots and LOTS of praise. Ignore bad behaviour and reinforce the good. If you see him cocking a leg to pee or sniffing around to have a poop in the house, simply pick him up without saying anything and place him outside. Don't let him follow through.

Newspaper will delay training. While you're around to take him out frequently, don't leave newspaper down. He won't need it if you let him out enough to go.

Feed him a good few hours before bed time so he has a chance to eliminate before you go to sleep. I've read that you can restrict water a little while before bed time for young pups to prevent peeing but Ive never had to do this.

Best luck

tk123

Stick with it OP - I found with my girl I'd sometimes be out with her for 20 mins! She's very lazy and would try to climb up on the lounger to go to sleep but I'd lift her down and say her toilet word and after a week or so she knew exactly what she was supposed to do when I said the magic words! I crated her at night and it sped things up too - I was lucky enough that she'd only need to go out once a night and would sleep until 5:30ish so not too bad.

angeldaisy

Can i sneak in on this thread please!

Elly is 4mth old and is partly house trained. She's crated at night and goes from 11pm ish to 8am no problem. However during the day it's very hit and miss.
I let her out this morning with Tara and they both did wees and poos. I put Elly in the crate whilst I went out for about an hour. Left her outside when I got back, she did wees and got loads of praise.
Just got up to let them out again about an hour later and found she had pooed in the hall and done a wee in the bathroom.

What am I doing wrong!?

DBB

At 4 months, with most pups it's still not fully there yet, this concept of looking to get outside, so they can pee, so they can get rewarded.
The second time you left her out, were you outside with them? At what point in events did you treat her? By this I mean, did she get the treat as soon as she lifted out of the squat, or did she get it when she came back into the house? Or somewhere in between?
You also need to be ultra vigilant... Don't allow her have access to other rooms for a few more weeks, unless you're in those rooms with her. If you can't avoid this, then she needs to be in her crate for the moments you can't fully observe her movements.

angeldaisy

angeldaisy wrote: »

Can i sneak in on this thread please!

Elly is 4mth old and is partly house trained. She's crated at night and goes from 11pm ish to 8am no problem. However during the day it's very hit and miss.
I let her out this morning with Tara and they both did wees and poos. I put Elly in the crate whilst I went out for about an hour. Left her outside when I got back, she did wees and got loads of praise.
Just got up to let them out again about an hour later and found she had pooed in the hall and done a wee in the bathroom.

What am I doing wrong!?

Hi, how long have you been house training elly? Accidents can happen for the first week or so. The trick is to watch your dog like a hawk so that she doesn't get the opportunity to make a mistake. In the hour she was left out you should have caught her before she peed and pooped and placed her outside, then reward as soon as she done the deed.

I know it's not always convenient to constantly watch the dog when you have other things to do though, but it is best not to try your best not to let mistakes happen, for your sake and little ellys.

If you really can't keep a keen eye on the dog while out, then particularly keep an eye out when you first let the dog out to roam as they usually choose to go then. An hour can be a long time for a pup. Maybe try every half hour - fifteen minutes until she gets better if possible? That's all I can think of. If shes partially trained she must be getting there good luck!

angeldaisy

Great advice, makes a lot of sense. our back door is broken at min so I have to trail them through the house to our other back door. Treats are usually kept at the back door so I forgot them. House is open plan so quite difficult to watch her constantly. she is doing generally well and we've only had her a couple of days!
Tried to praise her a few minutes ago for doing a wee and she just ignored me totally!!

tk123

angeldaisy wrote: »

C
Just got up to let them out again about an hour later and found she had pooed in the hall and done a wee in the bathroom.?

Would she have been heading for the front door? Lucy pooed a couple of times in the hall and was facing the front door. Luckily I'd raw fed her from day one so the was a nugget and no mess :pac:

angeldaisy

tk123 wrote: »

Would she have been heading for the front door? Lucy pooed a couple of times in the hall and was facing the front door. Luckily I'd raw fed her from day one so the was a nugget and no mess :pac:

Nope she's never let out the front as it's open on the front.

On the raw food note, do you feed her the same foods as bailey? I have Tara on raw in the evenings but was wondering if I can feed Elly raw this early?

tk123

I put Lucy on it the day we got her! I just stuck to minces until she was 5 or 6 months/she was finished teething to be safe. At the time I mixed good quality wet food in to bulk out the meals because she was getting at least 1kg a day but I have loads of storage now so don't think I'd bother if I was feeding another pup. It was more of a space/money saving thing that anything else!

DBB

Jayney angeldaisy, sure I forgot you've ad her no time!
Seeing as you're in an open plan set-up (how posh are you having TWO back doors?! La di da!), it might be worthwhile thinking about setting up a playpen for her, or just using it to barricade off the bits of house you don't want her in at any given moment.
The praise will become more significant to her with time, but especially if you pair it with high-value food treats. I'd be inclined to use high value treats for now, until she gets more accomplished, and you really need to try to get the treats into her immediately after she toilets, using your praising voice to bridge any gap between her toileting, and getting the treat.

angeldaisy

I lol'd at the thought of being posh DBB! I have a bungalow and our bedroom has french doors! house is constantly filthy from dogs running through the mud and then indoors! Hopefully have someone coming to fix the door tomorrow.

I think I'm just out of practice with a puppy! It's been 11 yrs since we had one and I'm convinced he trained himself!!!

I must stock up on yummy treats for her, I think at the minute she's associating outside more with playing than toilet!

tk123

Stock up on training pads from Dealz etc - they're very handy to quickly absorb accidents when they happen!

Cookies N Cream

Thanks for so much input. We have a pen outside for our puppy he is very good going there we bring him back in with loads of praise after he went to the toilet. its just during the day. With not leaving the newspaper down we have a wooden floor have to leave something down to protect the floor from accidents. We have a utility room would it be too upsetting to move his bed in there and not leave down paper?