Moving out, landlord wants to deduct cleaning and lightbulbs

seabhcan

I'm looking for some advice on the rules around rent security deposits. We've moved out after nearly 5 years renting. Never missed a rent payment, never had a dispute.

I cleaned the house extensively on the day we moved out and left it spotless (in my opinion anyway).

The landlord contacted me after to say the house wasn't sufficiently clean and he wants to deduct the price of a cleaning company and the cost of new lightbulbs from my security deposit. About €100 total.

The amount isn't really a killer - its just annoying really. Can the landlord really deduct the price of lightbulbs from the depost?

I looked on the boards, and on the prtb.ie site, but there is nothing specific about it.

Doom

Are there missing/ inoperative light bulbs in the house?

the_syco

seabhcan wrote: »

The landlord contacted me after to say the house wasn't sufficiently clean and he wants to deduct the price of a cleaning company and the cost of new lightbulbs from my security deposit. About €100 total.

Ensure the landlord provides you with receipts, as I can't see €100 paying for a lot of cleaning.

seabhcan

Doom wrote: »

Are there missing/ inoperative light bulbs in the house?

Yes.

drumswan

Christ, I would be absolutely furious if this was me. If this is Dublin you've likely paid him 50 grand plus in rent and he wants to charge you for lightbulbs.

Under no circumstance accept the deduction for lightbulbs.
Inform him you will require receipts for any cleaning work carried out professionally. He cannot bill you for his own time either.
Let him know in no uncertain terms that any other outcome will result in a complaint lodged against him via the PRTB.

seabhcan

drumswan wrote: »

Christ, I would be absolutely furious if this was me. If this is Dublin you've likely paid him 50 grand plus in rent and he wants to charge you for lightbulbs.

Closer to 100k actually.

Doom

seabhcan wrote: »

Yes.

Why didn't you replace them, it would have been the right thing to do and sensible.

You had working bulbs when you moved in, when u leave there should be working bulbs.

seabhcan

Doom wrote: »

Why didn't you replace them, it would have been the right thing to do and sensible.

I would have thought that a few blown light bulbs would fall under normal wear and tear.

drumswan

seabhcan wrote: »

I would have thought that a few blown light bulbs would fall under normal wear and tear.

Of course it does, a lightbulb does not last 5 years, you will no doubt already have replaced some of these at your own expense.

Next he'll be charging you for the portion of the battery life you used up in the smoke alarms and wear and tear to the washers in the taps.

damienirel

drumswan wrote: »

Christ, I would be absolutely furious if this was me. If this is Dublin you've likely paid him 50 grand plus in rent and he wants to charge you for lightbulbs.

Under no circumstance accept the deduction for lightbulbs.
Inform him you will require receipts for any cleaning work carried out professionally. He cannot bill you for his own time either.
Let him know in no uncertain terms that any other outcome will result in a complaint lodged against him via the PRTB.

Hang on, I think a little bit of common sense is needed here.
1. How many bulbs were blown? - If i was a landlord and I called over to check my property(at night) and a load of bulbs are blown I'd be seriously annoyed.

2. Where were the bulbs blown? Were they in strategic areas - kitchen, living room? Put yourself in the landlords shoes he walks into his property to see you shuffling around in the dark not to mention that your house is probably dirty because you can't switch on a light to do a clean up?

3. Apply some common sense people - how much is a light bulb? or do you prefer the dark? Just picturing a dirty house/apt and some idiot sitting around in the dark.

Go to the PRTB but don't expect much sympathy there.

Doom

seabhcan wrote: »

I would have thought that a few blown light bulbs would fall under normal wear and tear.

You were stupid to give the landlord any reason to charge you.
Would you leave a battery out of a smoke alarm too?

Ihatecuddles

damienirel wrote: »

2. Where were the bulbs blown? Were they in strategic areas - kitchen, living room? Put yourself in the landlords shoes he walks into his property to see you shuffling around in the dark not to mention that your house is probably dirty because you can't switch on a light to do a clean up?

I agree with your point, but blown bulbs does not equal a dirty house. What's wrong with cleaning up during the day?

Even if we don't get home until 8pm there's still enough daylight to wash up after dinner and do a tidy up!

damienirel

mauzo! wrote: »

I agree with your point, but blown bulbs does not equal a dirty house. What's wrong with cleaning up during the day?

Even if we don't get home until 8pm there's still enough daylight to wash up after dinner and do a tidy up!

Who said there was windows in all the rooms??

mickdw

After long term rental, isn't it expected that a major clean and redecorate would be needed due to normal wear and tear?
I think the landlord is an ass hole.

anncoates

Landlord is being a twat but I'd probably just replace the bulbs to avoid a possibly drawn out fight about it.

Unless you've actually left some kind of stains or mess asking for cleaning money is taking the piss too.

damienirel

mickdw wrote: »

After long term rental, isn't it expected that a major clean and redecorate would be needed due to normal wear and tear?
I think the landlord is an ass hole.

Nobody mentioned a major clean or redecorate - doubt if €100 would get you either of those in Dublin anyways.

Ihatecuddles

damienirel wrote: »

Who said there was windows in all the rooms??

You're being silly now. You're assuming her house is dirty and she's bee wandering around in the dark.

I think we can assume there is windows, otherwise she probably would have bought light bulbs.

damienirel

mauzo! wrote: »

You're being silly now.

Have you ever lived in an apartment in dublin? You should try it and see how silly I actually am.

damienirel

mauzo! wrote: »

You're being silly now. You're assuming her house is dirty and she's bee wandering around in the dark.

I think we can assume there is windows, otherwise she probably would have bought light bulbs.

You're the one making all the assumptions even the one where we're talking about a female?

seabhcan

damienirel wrote: »

Hang on, I think a little bit of common sense is needed here.
1. How many bulbs were blown? - If i was a landlord and I called over to check my property(at night) and a load of bulbs are blown I'd be seriously annoyed.

2. Where were the bulbs blown? Were they in strategic areas - kitchen, living room? Put yourself in the landlords shoes he walks into his property to see you shuffling around in the dark not to mention that your house is probably dirty because you can't switch on a light to do a clean up?

3. Apply some common sense people - how much is a light bulb? or do you prefer the dark? Just picturing a dirty house/apt and some idiot sitting around in the dark.

Go to the PRTB but don't expect much sympathy there.

1/2. A few, in a 3 story 5 bed house. They are those annoying spotlight bulbs that never seem to last very long. There are 8 of them in the living room, of which maybe 3 were blown.

2) The house was not dirty. The landlord doesn't even claim the rooms with the blown bulbs are dirty. All rooms have windows (real questions?)

3) the question isn't whether the landlord needs to replace the bulbs. Its whether he has a right to make me pay for it.

drumswan

damienirel wrote: »

Hang on, I think a little bit of common sense is needed here.

Common sense is indeed required, absorbing the costs of normal wear and tear is part of the cost of doing business for a landlord. The notion that a business can pass on these costs directly to the customer is farcical and illegal.

Ihatecuddles

damienirel wrote: »

Have you ever lived in an apartment in dublin? You should try it and see how silly I actually am.

I have, I had windows in every room apart from the bathroom. During the day it was lit up by the window in the hall. Therefore it was always clean, even when a bulb was blown.

If she had no windows, I think it's safe to assume she would have bought bulbs....

We're gone off topic, but it makes zero sense to say that some bulbs were blown, so her apartment was dirty because she had no windows

damienirel

mauzo! wrote: »

I have, I had windows in every room apart from the bathroom. During the day it was lit up by the window in the hall. Therefore it was always clean, even when a bulb was blown.

If she had no windows, I think it's safe to assume she would have bought bulbs....

We're gone off topic, but it makes zero sense to say that some bulbs were blown, so her apartment was dirty because she had no windows

What makes zero sense is what you've just typed. Think the person(not sure what makes everybody assume gender) has just posted a response explaining the situation a little more since your post. And indeed he/she has windows.

If it needs explaining - if you don't have windows or lights you would not have light in the room - clear?

damienirel

seabhcan wrote: »

1/2. A few, in a 3 story 5 bed house. They are those annoying spotlight bulbs that never seem to last very long. There are 8 of them in the living room, of which maybe 3 were blown.

2) The house was not dirty. The landlord doesn't even claim the rooms with the blown bulbs are dirty. All rooms have windows (real questions?)

3) the question isn't whether the landlord needs to replace the bulbs. Its whether he has a right to make me pay for it.

From what you're saying it sounds like the landlord is being unreasonable.

Victor

mauzo! wrote: »

You're being silly now. You're assuming her house is dirty and she's bee wandering around in the dark.

I think we can assume there is windows, otherwise she probably would have bought light bulbs.

damienirel wrote: »

Have you ever lived in an apartment in dublin? You should try it and see how silly I actually am.

Less bickering please

Moderator

quadrifoglio verde

Op the best thing to do is let the landlord deduct, then bring it to the prtb, because I can tell you, he ain't going to have receipts for a professionally cleaning company, as they'll cost a lot more than 100 euro.
Don't mention receipts until after he goes to return the deposit.
Did you take photos of the house before leaving? If so, you can use these as proof that the house was clean?

damienirel

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Op the best thing to do is let the landlord deduct, then bring it to the prtb, because I can tell you, he ain't going to have receipts for a professionally cleaning company, as they'll cost a lot more than 100 euro.
Don't mention receipts until after he goes to return the deposit.
Did you take photos of the house before leaving? If so, you can use these as proof that the house was clean?

Totally agree. And for sure 100 euro is farcical for cleaning more like 300 min.

damienirel

damienirel wrote: »

Totally agree. And for sure 100 euro is farcical for cleaning more like 300 min.

Plus whats the worst that's going to happen you end up having to pay for cleaning and bulbs? Still probably cheaper than deposit - 1 month of your rent which i've worked out is approx €1670 a month

sarkozy

We don't know how clean/dirty the tenants left the house. A LL's rule of thumb would be presumably, 'can I let this place in this state? How much additional cleaning is required, and how much would that set me back?'. I think common sense needs to apply here.

Guaranteed, the LL is already thinking of the usual costs associated with the end of a long let: repainting, new beds/mattresses, new appliances, furniture, etc. That could run to over €1,000. Of course, LL's factor this into the costs of running their business, but just consider that perspective.

Perhaps the LL is being unfair, perhaps not. Perhaps the tenants did a good cleaning job, perhaps not.

In my experience, a small house (2 bed, city centre house/apartment) would cost around €60, so €100 is possibly not outlandish. Common sense applying, there may also be room to negotiate here if the judgement of what's clean/not clean is borderline.

Regarding the lights, I would personally feel that the LL should just suck this up. Unless they're specialty LED lights, how much can replacements cost? But I can also see it from the LL's perspective that you just neglected to replace lights while living there, which is the responsibility of the LL to provide initially, just leaving them to blow, waiting for the LL to replace them, cynically pushing the cost onto the LL. Again, perhaps common sense and a compromise should prevail.

Otherwise, you can bring issues to the PTRB. You may not win, of course. You'd need to communicate with the LL in writing regarding these issues and, presumably, have some form of photographic evidence to support your case. Whether it's worth the effort is another thing. But you don't necessarily need to trust the LL, so maybe he *is* chancing his arm over the costs, which is why a compromise approach can be better, and do demand receipts.

quadrifoglio verde

sarkozy wrote: »

We don't know how clean/dirty the tenants left the house. A LL's rule of thumb would be presumably, 'can I let this place in this state? How much additional cleaning is required, and how much would that set me back?'. I think common sense needs to apply here.

Guaranteed, the LL is already thinking of the usual costs associated with the end of a long let: repainting, new beds/mattresses, new appliances, furniture, etc. That could run to over €1,000. Of course, LL's factor this into the costs of running their business, but just consider that perspective.

Perhaps the LL is being unfair, perhaps not. Perhaps the tenants did a good cleaning job, perhaps not.

In my experience, a small house (2 bed, city centre house/apartment) would cost around €60, so €100 is possibly not outlandish. Common sense applying, there may also be room to negotiate here if the judgement of what's clean/not clean is borderline.

Regarding the lights, I would personally feel that the LL should just suck this up. Unless they're specialty LED lights, how much can replacements cost? But I can also see it from the LL's perspective that you just neglected to replace lights while living there, which is the responsibility of the LL to provide initially, just leaving them to blow, waiting for the LL to replace them, cynically pushing the cost onto the LL. Again, perhaps common sense and a compromise should prevail.

Otherwise, you can bring issues to the PTRB. You may not win, of course. You'd need to communicate with the LL in writing regarding these issues and, presumably, have some form of photographic evidence to support your case. Whether it's worth the effort is another thing. But you don't necessarily need to trust the LL, so maybe he *is* chancing his arm over the costs, which is why a compromise approach can be better, and do demand receipts.

After 5 years, I'd be expecting to do a decent clean and repaint, whether the tenants left the place spotless or not. Tge

seabhcan

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

After 5 years, I'd be expecting to do a decent clean and repaint, whether the tenants left the place spotless or not. Tge

Would you deduct the cost of that from the deposit of the outgoing tenant?