Beef in Crisis

Abfg

The whole thing is rotten to the core! The minister's cosy relationship with some of the top beef barons and the IFA watching for scraps off the factories table, disgusting. Ash tray on motor bikes come to mind. It's time for farmers take the bull by the horns, wait for the single payment in October and batten down the hatches. Block every factory (including all the beef Larry is bringing in from Poland) and mart for 2 weeks and they wouldnt be long coming to their senses. Dont worry about court injunctions they cant put us all in jail if we stand together!

tomwaterford

Abfg wrote: »

The whole thing is rotten to the core! The minister's cosy relationship with some of the top beef barons and the IFA watching for scraps off the factories table, disgusting. Ash tray on motor bikes come to mind. It's time for farmers take the bull by the horns, wait for the single payment in October and batten down the hatches. Block every factory (including all the beef Larry is bringing in from Poland) and mart for 2 weeks and they wouldnt be long coming to their senses. Dont worry about court injunctions they cant put us all in jail if we stand together!

the thing is....they will just get the gaurds to force it through...see the long running shell pipeline dispute in mayo

how many can realistically afford to not sell anything for months on end....two weeks is nothing

sandydan

Abfg wrote: »

The whole thing is rotten to the core! The minister's cosy relationship with some of the top beef barons and the IFA watching for scraps off the factories table, disgusting. Ash tray on motor bikes come to mind. It's time for farmers take the bull by the horns, wait for the single payment in October and batten down the hatches. Block every factory (including all the beef Larry is bringing in from Poland) and mart for 2 weeks and they wouldn't be long coming to their senses. Dont worry about court injunctions they cant put us all in jail if we stand together!

im afraid competition authority has fairly extensive powers and their anti competition opinion is capable of doing wreck given right PR backing which factory owners and consumers watchdog would use to max detriment of farmer.
i can guarantee you after last time when IFA had to practically disband to prevent a financial windfall(imo) for meat factories and fines to courts i think we should give that option a wide berth for now and concentrate on PR exercise of exposing goalposts changing of standards of meat factories backed by powers that be imo.
with the" no prices reduction to consumers despite price reduction to producers" publicity that current demos are highlighting at minute i think we need to carefully ratchet up publicity campaign to focus on that issue to get consumers on our side, its not something factories can explain easily no doubt helps local butcher trade as well. correct me if wrong but Larry doesn't need to bring Polish carcasses into Ireland to reprocess for export to markets abroad.
. is there any guarantee that carcasses imported from there originate there and are what they are supposed to be eg" Hereford beef" carcasses just my opinion thats all

Abfg

Forget about the IFA they will not bite the hand that feeds them! Its time to wind up that shower and start again. Look at the level they have let farming drop to, they should hang their collective heads in shame and disband!!!!

whelan2

the big problem is an over supply of beef, 37 pages into this thread and no one has addressed this. Until the numbers of beef cattle are lowered there will still be the same problem.... no use blaming factories, farming orgainisations or government....

Farmer Pudsey

whelan2 wrote: »

the big problem is an over supply of beef, 37 pages into this thread and no one has addressed this. Until the numbers of beef cattle are lowered there will still be the same problem.... no use blaming factories, farming orgainisations or government....

I think this issue will resolve over next few years. With milk quota's a good few larger beef farmers with large blocks of lands for milking platforms will change over to milk. You will also see lads look at it being more viable than having 30 sucklers if they need the money. Land will also be tied up contract rearing. Diary farmers with lesser value calves will cull same. This will all reduce supply.

rangler1

Abfg wrote: »

Forget about the IFA they will not bite the hand that feeds them! Its time to wind up that shower and start again. Look at the level they have let farming drop to, they should hang their collective heads in shame and disband!!!!

I think the lack of support for the protest in rathkeale has shown the lack of bottle in the likes of you,
If farmers wanted the fight brought to the factory gate, they would have been there, a lot of farmers want action as long as they're not asked to help

Abfg

Nothing will be resolved until Larry is stopped. He controls the beef price with his feedlots, contract rearing and importing beef into this country with help from his right hand men in the farmers journal and Goverment.

Abfg

rangler1 wrote: »

I think the lack of support for the protest in rathkeale has shown the lack of bottle in the likes of you,
If farmers wanted the fight brought to the factory gate, they would have been there, a lot of farmers want action as long as they're not asked to help

The thing the IFA dont realise is they have lost the support of a huge amount of farmers in the country after the way the dealt with the single farm payment. Nobody trusts these organisations anymore so why would they stand behind a rag with their name on it.

rangler1

Abfg wrote: »

The thing the IFA dont realise is they have lost the support of a huge amount of farmers in the country after the way the dealt with the single farm payment. Nobody trusts these organisations anymore so why would they stand behind a rag with their name on it.

Hadn't heard that excuse before.......no point in any organisation going to the factory gate so......so much saved.
I suppose it depends how bad you're hurting and whether you put your principles first

td5man

Abfg wrote: »

The whole thing is rotten to the core! The minister's cosy relationship with some of the top beef barons and the IFA watching for scraps off the factories table, disgusting. Ash tray on motor bikes come to mind. It's time for farmers take the bull by the horns, wait for the single payment in October and batten down the hatches. Block every factory (including all the beef Larry is bringing in from Poland) and mart for 2 weeks and they wouldnt be long coming to their senses. Dont worry about court injunctions they cant put us all in jail if we stand together!

A French style protest is what's needed.

mf240

Rangler. Its a great idea to throw back the line "what did you do" to any farmer that questions the IFA. Top marks to the spin doctor who advised ye to take that stance.


Reality is ye didnt do anything worthwhile. Glut is nearly over now and price will rise and ye will claim credit.


No appetite to tackle the real issues with lack of competition and the stranglehold one man has on the offal collection.


Larry has ye in his pocket so ye wont rock the boat too much.


And no I didnt do anything but then im not getting a wage plus expences so dont ask me to dothe job ye are being handsomely rewarded for.

rangler1

mf240 wrote: »

Rangler. Its a great idea to throw back the line "what did you do" to any farmer that questions the IFA. Top marks to the spin doctor who advised ye to take that stance.


Reality is ye didnt do anything worthwhile. Glut is nearly over now and price will rise and ye will claim credit.


No appetite to tackle the real issues with lack of competition and the stranglehold one man has on the offal collection.


Larry has ye in his pocket so ye wont rock the boat too much.


And no I didnt do anything but then im not getting a wage plus expences so dont ask me to dothe job ye are being handsomely rewarded for.

I'm a farmer the same as everyone else, don't tell me I have a wage, and we're not allowed expenses for protests so I'm well entitled to ask why you're not bothered,
lack of competition is always being investigated, if you want to put the CAs decision up here.......there is no cartel in meat factories....are you happy now
As for the glut, I said a couple weeks ago it was over, (doesn't say the price is going to go up)

Quota protected dairy farmer telling me I'm handsomely rewarded is a it bit ironic don't you think

How many times do I have to tell you that very few of the farmers in IFA have any thing to do with funding of the organisation.

rangler1

Abfg wrote: »

The whole thing is rotten to the core! The minister's cosy relationship with some of the top beef barons and the IFA watching for scraps off the factories table, disgusting. Ash tray on motor bikes come to mind. It's time for farmers take the bull by the horns, wait for the single payment in October and batten down the hatches. Block every factory (including all the beef Larry is bringing in from Poland) and mart for 2 weeks and they wouldnt be long coming to their senses. Dont worry about court injunctions they cant put us all in jail if we stand together!

That's not going to happen, I think mf240 has shown you why it won't work,
That's what I get if I go looking for protestors

Damo810

A new user coming in here and straight away criticizing IFA, not posting anywhere else, bit unusual, is it not?



Everyone criticizing the IFA for lack of action, but A)No one ever provides an alternative course of action for them to take and B)Are they not the only ones protesting at the moment? Even when they do it's hard to get a number of farmers behind them.

You cannot expect them to do everything themselves, when other unions strike they strike together, but paddy farmers wants everything done for him without any support from him at all? time to get real lads.

Damo810

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I think this issue will resolve over next few years. With milk quota's a good few larger beef farmers with large blocks of lands for milking platforms will change over to milk. You will also see lads look at it being more viable than having 30 sucklers if they need the money. Land will also be tied up contract rearing. Diary farmers with lesser value calves will cull same. This will all reduce supply.

Will there not be a heck more cows in this country Puds? The arrival of sexed semen means beef bulls can also be used to mop up a large portion of dairy herds meaning we have even more beef bred weanlings every year, with less suitable for export. I don't think there will be much of a drop in supply of beef, especially when you consider a number of substantial tillage farmers are also converting over too.

Damo810

whelan2 wrote: »

the big problem is an over supply of beef, 37 pages into this thread and no one has addressed this. Until the numbers of beef cattle are lowered there will still be the same problem.... no use blaming factories, farming orgainisations or government....

Does anyone have the official numbers of our kill? How much in an oversupply are we?

If this glut is the cause of beef dropping to €3.60 a kg then any idea of food harvest 2020 is truly gone out the window.

Secondly, even if there was no oversupply, would we be getting a fair price for our beef. Didn't teagasc say we needed at least €4/Kg and €4.50/kg when accounting for volatility. Would we see €4.50 in any time other than a deep under supply? Even with an oversupply, is it acceptable that we take a 17% reduction in price while there is a drop of 0.07% in retail price. We're getting less and less and factories/retailers are getting more and more.

Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but I don't think our problem is purely that we're in an oversupply..

Abfg

Damo810 wrote: »

A new user coming in here and straight away criticizing IFA, not posting anywhere else, bit unusual, is it not?



Everyone criticizing the IFA for lack of action, but A)No one ever provides an alternative course of action for them to take and B)Are they not the only ones protesting at the moment? Even when they do it's hard to get a number of farmers behind them.

You cannot expect them to do everything themselves, when other unions strike they strike together, but paddy farmers wants everything done for him without any support from him at all? time to get real lads.

Will the IFA stop taking the subsides off Larry and show the farmers of Ireland that the are not just proclamating outside factory gates and at the same time getting their pockets lined at the back door. I can guarantee you that wont happen, I'd say membership is at an all time low and dropping by the day!!!!

Damo810

Abfg wrote: »

Will the IFA stop taking the subsides off Larry and show the farmers of Ireland that the are not just proclamating outside factory gates and at the same time getting their pockets lined at the back door. I can guarantee you that wont happen, I'd say membership is at an all time low and dropping by the day!!!!

So where has the threat of levies stopped the IFA doing something? Are they not the only ones protesting across the country?

How do you suggest they collect levies? Should everyone just pay a flat rate or do you think everyone should be at it for free?

Base price

rangler1 wrote: »

I'm a farmer the same as everyone else, don't tell me I have a wage, and we're not allowed expenses for protests so I'm well entitled to ask why you're not bothered,
lack of competition is always being investigated, if you want to put the CAs decision up here.......there is no cartel in meat factories....are you happy now
As for the glut, I said a couple weeks ago it was over, (doesn't say the price is going to go up)

Quota protected dairy farmer telling me I'm handsomely rewarded is a it bit ironic don't you think

How many times do I have to tell you that very few of the farmers in IFA have any thing to do with funding of the organisation.

Well someone is telling porkies so.
According to the handout in the IFJ a couple of weeks ago, funding comes from three sources a) 35% from EIF levy, b) 50% from membership fees and c) 15% other income sources such as FBD Trust and IFA Member Services.
So if I read the figures correctly 50% of funds comes directly from memberships i.e. farmers.
My gripe with the IFA is the lack of action earlier on this spring when factories were really acting the mick with prices. Why did they not protest outside of supermarkets etc in March, April etc. This lack of action allowed the factories to reap vast financial rewards on the back of us beef farmers.
As early as last October prices were under pressure - here we are nearly a year later before there is action.

Abfg

Damo810 wrote: »

So where has the threat of levies stopped the IFA doing something? Are they not the only ones protesting across the country?

How do you suggest they collect levies? Should everyone just pay a flat rate or do you think everyone should be at it for free?

It's a total conflict of interest, how can they mount a proper campaign against Larry when he is supplying a main source of income to the organisation.

Damo810

Abfg wrote: »

It's a total conflict of interest, how can they mount a proper campaign against Larry when he is supplying a main source of income to the organisation.

Such a conflict of interest, yet you cannot show an instance where it has stopped them doing something...

What do you mean by 'proper campaign'? What would your course of action be against Goodman and co.

on the river

Abfg wrote: »

It's a total conflict of interest, how can they mount a proper campaign against Larry when he is supplying a main source of income to the organisation.

I agree it's all or nothing.
Big and small farmers must support each other against the factories. Otherwise a civil conflict will erupt within farming circles which will weaken farming lobby groups

Abfg

Damo810 wrote: »

Such a conflict of interest, yet you cannot show an instance where it has stopped them doing something...

What do you mean by 'proper campaign'? What would your course of action be against Goodman and co.

"Stop them doing something" what planet have you been on the last few years your obviously not trying to farm in the west of Ireland. The majority of farmers over here are living below the poverty line!!!!
The first step is to take their hands out of Larry's pocket!!!!!!!Farmers wont unite behind the setup the way it is!!!!!!!!!!

Damo810

Abfg wrote: »

"Stop them doing something" what planet have you been on the last few years your obviously not trying to farm in the west of Ireland. The majority of farmers over here are living below the poverty line!!!!
The first step is to take their hands out of Larry's pocket!!!!!!!Farmers wont unite behind the setup the way it is!!!!!!!!!!

Actually I'm from Mayo. Farmers won't unite behind anything, thats the reason we're in this dam mess. The fact their levies are collected from factories isn't the reason they own't agree on simple bloody things.

you haven't answered any of my questions though.

Abfg

As mentioned earlier in this thread" you can't win a fight without taking some pain. " it's time for the IFA to take the pain!!!!
It's time for you to answer the question should they be taking money off Larry. yes or no please !!!!!

Damo810

Abfg wrote: »

As mentioned earlier in this thread" you can't win a fight without taking some pain. " it's time for the IFA to take the pain!!!!
It's time for you to answer the question should they be taking money off Larry. yes or no please !!!!!

So you just don't bother to answer any of my questions, but I should answer yours?

You seem to think the IFA could operate with any funding, say what? I have no problem with the factories collecting the levy which comes from farmers, not Larry Goodman as you seem to think, as long as it doesn't influence the IFA's decisions, which by you avoidance of my questions, it obviously hasn't.

on the river

Abfg wrote: »

As mentioned earlier in this thread" you can't win a fight without taking some pain. " it's time for the IFA to take the pain!!!!
It's time for you to answer the question should they be taking money off Larry. yes or no please !!!!!

NO NO NO.
It's past time the farmers in the west took a stand.
It's time for the larrys of this world to unite behind a common purpose.
It's time that farmer got a fair price for their livestock.
It's time factories genuinely discussed openly these problems and draw up a fair agreement.

on the river

Abfg wrote: »

"Stop them doing something" what planet have you been on the last few years your obviously not trying to farm in the west of Ireland. The majority of farmers over here are living below the poverty line!!!!
The first step is to take their hands out of Larry's pocket!!!!!!!Farmers wont unite behind the setup the way it is!!!!!!!!!!

The set up the way it is!!! Is getting us no where.
The bottom line still stands if the big farmer is happy then the IFA our happy

I think the amount of funding farmers pay in to the IFA through levies and membership is total waste especially presently .

Damo810

on the river wrote: »

NO NO NO.
It's past time the farmers in the west took a stand.
It's time for the larrys of this world to unite behind a common purpose.
It's time that farmer got a fair price for their livestock.
It's time factories genuinely discussed openly these problems and draw up a fair agreement.

Only way we will ever get anything near a fair agreement is if we stand together and play them at their own game.

It's a pity all the uproar about the IFA and factories in here and outside of here isn't being put into action directly towards getting a better beef price :rolleyes:

on the river

Damo810 wrote: »

Only way we will ever get anything near a fair agreement is if we stand together and play them at their own game.

It's a pity all the uproar about the IFA and factories in here and outside of here isn't being put into action directly towards getting a better beef price :rolleyes:

Look everyone wants a fair price for their produce.
As things stand many small farmers are barely breaking even.
Presently the time of rearing a animal does not justify the cost added to poor prices.

Abfg

You seem to think the IFA could operate with any funding, say what? I have no problem with the factories collecting the levy which comes from farmers, not Larry Goodman as you seem to think, as long as it doesn't influence the IFA's decisions, which by you avoidance of my questions, it obviously hasn't.

That is exactly the problem all your worried about is funding the organisation and f##k the farmer that they are supposed to be representing. No wonder your membership is falling off a cliff.

Roundbale

Damo810 wrote: »

So you just don't bother to answer any of my questions, but I should answer yours?

You seem to think the IFA could operate with any funding, say what? I have no problem with the factories collecting the levy which comes from farmers, not Larry Goodman as you seem to think, as long as it doesn't influence the IFA's decisions, which by you avoidance of my questions, it obviously hasn't.

It has. Happened about ten years ago that the Larry stopped collecting the levy for them, due to protests. After a few weeks they crawled on their bellies to collect it again and protest was over.

Damo810

Roundbale wrote: »

It has. Happened about ten years ago that the Larry stopped collecting the levy for them, due to protests. After a few weeks they crawled on their bellies to collect it again and protest was over.

They were threatened with a 500K a day fine...

Damo810

Abfg wrote: »

You seem to think the IFA could operate with any funding, say what? I have no problem with the factories collecting the levy which comes from farmers, not Larry Goodman as you seem to think, as long as it doesn't influence the IFA's decisions, which by you avoidance of my questions, it obviously hasn't.

That is exactly the problem all your worried about is funding the organisation and f##k the farmer that they are supposed to be representing. No wonder your membership is falling off a cliff.

Where have I said that? I said they cannot run without the funding, nowhere have I said **** the farmer, they are the only ones trying to do something for the farmers yet all you do is criticise, criticise, criticise. Nothing will change with an attitude like that.

As for your last sentence, "No wonder your membership is falling off a cliff" I'm not affiliated with the IFA, you seem to be confusing me with Rangler..

Now please, go back and answer the questions put to you..

Damo810

on the river wrote: »

Look everyone wants a fair price for their produce.
As things stand many small farmers are barely breaking even.
Presently the time of rearing a animal does not justify the cost added to poor prices.

Of course, I completely agree, for the last number of years I've always said to those in charge here to push numbers, build up stock value, be productive etc, this year, in all honesty I'd have to say the opposite, keep as little stock as you can, collect your payments and financially you'll be better off, less worries. It's a crying shame and that is why things must change.

I agree with your post, I just think we need to stick together or we'll continue to get rode by Larry and co..

Abfg

Roundbale wrote: »

It has. Happened about ten years ago that the Larry stopped collecting the levy for them, due to protests. After a few weeks they crawled on their bellies to collect it again and protest was over.

Just as I said at the start they will never take their hand out of Larry's pocket and stand with the farmers, they have'nt the balls!!! Some shower of clowns to be representing anyone!!!!

theaceofspies

Abfg wrote: »

Just as I said at the start they will never take their hand out of Larry's pocket and stand with the farmers, they have'nt the balls!!! Some shower of clowns to be representing anyone!!!!

The IFA are collecting some money on levies if the beef kill is at the 'max'. Anyone have access to their annual reports? would love to know what all the levies are been spent on

Willfarman

If there's any crowd worse than the Black and Tans lads it the feckin IFA!

theaceofspies

Willfarman wrote: »

If there's any crowd worse than the Black and Tans lads it the feckin IFA!

Oh theres goes a red herring:pac:. Thought it was a very reasonable question considering the IFA presents itself as the largest farming organisation in a country that has manifested Harvert 2020 'going forward'. Maybe someone is afraid they'll get found out?????? There seems to be a lot of pigeon shooters out there when it comes to asking intelligent questions as to what is really going on behind the scenes in Irish agriculture.

sandydan

Damo810 wrote: »

They were threatened with a 500K a day fine...

who took the court action based on farmers trying to get a basic price at time and labelled it as trying to establish a beef price cartel and activly trying to promote anti-competitive practices ,imo the competition authority based on IFA encouraging farmers to blockade factories ,orders carried out by the courts ,with heaps of pr supplied by factories.
my opinion as already stated is its a PR battle and at minute its 50/50, but factories are getting worst of pr so imo some badly thought out plan might backfire to our detriment and lads tearing each other apart is really the pits

Abfg

Willfarman wrote: »

If there's any crowd worse than the Black and Tans lads it the feckin IFA!

At least we knew what the black and tans were here to do!!!!!!

Username John

Willfarman wrote: »

If there's any crowd worse than the Black and Tans lads it the feckin IFA!

Abfg wrote: »

At least we knew what the black and tans were here to do!!!!!!

Tis easy to know ye have little hardship if they are the comparisons ye are making...
FFS...

Mad4simmental

Just a thought,

Would a big protest/rally at this years ploughing match be any good???

Thousands of people over three days, plenty of cameras and non farming people to.

Plenty of farmers go to it so it should be easy to get support & educate people as to what is happening.

If we can't organise sumthing there, well we couldn't get a ride in a Hure house.

Base price

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Just a thought,

Would a big protest/rally at this years ploughing match be any good???

Thousands of people over three days, plenty of cameras and non farming people to.

Plenty of farmers go to it so it should be easy to get support & educate people as to what is happening.

If we can't organise sumthing there, well we couldn't get a ride in a Hure house.

Sounds like a good idea to me. I presume that the NPA would not have an issue with it.

tomwaterford

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Just a thought,

Would a big protest/rally at this years ploughing match be any good???

Thousands of people over three days, plenty of cameras and non farming people to.

Plenty of farmers go to it so it should be easy to get support & educate people as to what is happening.

If we can't organise sumthing there, well we couldn't get a ride in a Hure house.

I think whelan2 hit the nail on the head...it is a simple supply and demand issue....something like 90% of beef is exported...therefore the factories can kinda do what they want to a certain extent....it all depends a huge extent on goodwill from factories to pay a good price and by the type of capatilism preferred/promoted in Ireland...it is inevitable they will screw people who have no other but to sell tere animals to them....by buying the cheapest meat possible from abroad and forcing irish prices down to that level

whelan2 wrote: »

the big problem is an over supply of beef, 37 pages into this thread and no one has addressed this. Until the numbers of beef cattle are lowered there will still be the same problem.... no use blaming factories, farming orgainisations or government....

rushvalley

While the recent protests are helping us and I hope they achieve results is having a handful of tractors worth 30/40k each at a protest about beef farmers a bit hypocritical?

Just a thought I had, not having a go at anyone

Roundbale

Damo810 wrote: »

They were threatened with a 500K a day fine...

He was a lovely Judge alright.

Mad4simmental

tomwaterford wrote: »

I think whelan2 hit the nail on the head...it is a simple supply and demand issue....something like 90% of beef is exported...therefore the factories can kinda do what they want to a certain extentl

Completely agree with you, but we should be getting a bigger slice of the pie.

sandydan

rushvalley wrote: »

While the recent protests are helping us and I hope they achieve results is having a handful of tractors worth 30/40k each at a protest about beef farmers a bit hypocritical?

Just a thought I had, not having a go at anyone

an individual critical of farmers remarked on that in shop yesterday,someone retorted they were there to show bank managers they were not being misused.