Beef in Crisis

just do it

whelan2 wrote: »

dairy is on the way down
beef is in crisis
grain is crap
lamb prices are down
spuds are brutal
so what is good to be at?

Slaughter or retail

mf240

whelan2 wrote: »

dairy is on the way down
beef is in crisis
grain is crap
lamb prices are down
spuds are brutal
so what is good to be at?

Sitka spruce and lodgepole pine.??

mahoney_j

whelan2 wrote: »

dairy is on the way down
beef is in crisis
grain is crap
lamb prices are down
spuds are brutal
so what is good to be at?

The dole ,guaranteed money and you don't have to get up and milk or feed cattle or cut corn 7 days a week,just lie in bed and rock up 1 day a week for free money!!

mahoney_j

whelan2 wrote: »

dairy is on the way down
beef is in crisis
grain is crap
lamb prices are down
spuds are brutal
so what is good to be at?

The dole ,guaranteed money and you don't have to get up and milk or feed cattle or cut corn 7 days a week,just lie in bed and rock up 1 day a week for free money!!

whelan2

mahoney_j wrote: »

The dole ,guaranteed money and you don't have to get up and milk or feed cattle or cut corn 7 days a week,just lie in bed and rock up 1 day a week for free money!!

self employed people dont get the dole... unless that has changed

ellewood

mf240 wrote: »

Sitka spruce and lodgepole pine.??

Ah no that would be an awful waste, Douglas fir

I said

This is the usual dog chasing its tale when Larry et al has drove down the price of stores and filled his sheds for the winter with cheap cattle he will throw the small finishers a bone with a price rise of maybe 10/15cent a kilo around the time of the SFP and the usual thing will occur all types of cattle for sale at the mart will rise and we ll scratch our heads how people can pay so much for them after what's happening now.

whelan2

looking at reeling in the years the bse crisis was in 1996, does any one know-or how to find out- the beef price then

rangler1

whelan2 wrote: »

dairy is on the way down
beef is in crisis
grain is crap
lamb prices are down
spuds are brutal
so what is good to be at?

I made up my mind to divert money away from farm development 8yrs ago....very glad now.....broke my heart to be cornered into putting up a sheep tunnel 2yrs ago

Greengrass1

rangler1 wrote: »

I made up my mind to divert money away from farm development 8yrs ago....very glad now.....broke my heart to be cornered into putting up a sheep tunnel 2yrs ago

So how do you make life easier for yourself?

rangler1

whelan2 wrote: »

looking at reeling in the years the bse crisis was in 1996, does any one know-or how to find out- the beef price then

Wasn't it 90pence/lb we blockaded the factories for in 2000...I remember getting £1.17/lb in the 1990s

whelan2

my dad told me a story of bringing a lorry load of cattle to the factory , seeing them killed and buying a brand new car on the way home and had some money left over, wouldnt happen now;)

Willfarman

rangler1 wrote: »

I made up my mind to divert money away from farm development 8yrs ago....very glad now.....broke my heart to be cornered into putting up a sheep tunnel 2yrs ago

I doubt that is altogether true. Didn't you win an award not too long ago?

Willfarman

In spring 2009 the price was 2.80. A pound a pound. The spring the grid was introduced.

rangler1

Willfarman wrote: »

I doubt that is altogether true. Didn't you win an award not too long ago?

Grass based sheep system here, peak demand coinciding with peak growth, got rid of rented land, huge difference in what I was at 10 years ago......chasing my tail for poor reward

Dont be daft

mahoney_j wrote: »

the beef industry to me stinks of corruption from Larry goodman to the minister to the feckin ifa who are meant to be there for the farmer.they organise pickets and get a bit of time on the main evening news and think there doing great

I've seen Henry Burns in action against Larry Goodman and the only thing I'll say is that while he might have been passionate about what he was fighting for, he had nothing to fight with.

What can the IFA do, realistically. Aside from stir up a bit bad press that'll fade in a day or two. The chance to put the larger processors back in their place was the Horse meat scandal, but everyone kept quite, IFA included.
It was the only time since the BSE crisis that public attention was transfixed on the beef industry and what should have been an opportunity to expose the cartels and the skulduggery that goes on, was instead a textbook operation of "There's nothing bad happening here, Poland though, you'd wanna watch Poland".

mahoney_j wrote: »

something like refusing to sell any cattle into factory's for a week or 10 days and call their bluff.i know some cattle may go over age or too fat but feck it it would be worth it if it swung things back to the beef farmers side

Something like that would require an organisation to oversee. The irony is that the organisation would then be guilty of, wait for it, yes, price fixing.

It seems to me that dairy is probably going to start taking huge chunks out of the national suckler herd over the coming decade and drive beef finishing into the Midlands.
The one thing that processors always relied on was that no matter how hard they hammered a beef man, he'd be back the following year again and if not him, so other poor sod trying his best. Quotas kept beef men in beef. They faced the choice of try again or lease the place out. They also kept dairy men in beef, who were even better to take a roasting and stay going.

I think myself, quota abolition will be a big game changer in Irish farming.

Farmer Pudsey

conor t wrote: »

But the market has changed a huge amount in the last 30 years, I don't think that there's big money to be made anymore

Ya there are meat processors going out of business all the time. And Larry is getting the money that he is investing in property from hos lotto wins.

The Letheram wrote: »

According to Darragh McCullough on drive time it will be all ok. We should return to grass based finishing en masse because, wait for it, grass grows for FREE. Ya right. How is this lamp assistant editor of a large farming publication?

There is an expression sh!t for brains

onyerbikepat

Mac Taylor wrote: »

Mf240, while I agree somewhat in your sentiment, you targeting the wrong audience ie only a small portion of what we produce is sold in Ireland.

As I see it we have a premium product (Grass fed, outdoor etc etc etc) however to a global audience we do not market it as such. The factories will make their margin regardless of where or how the product is sold. So where is their incentive to sell our product as a premium product....None

We have BB but I am not sure that they could sell water to the Arabs let alone beef.

We need to get some top Maketing guys to create a beef brand to position our product as premium and with it comes the added value.

We should then look at doing "open book costings" with the factories so that once and for all we can see what margin they are getting. Everyone needs to make a margin, the problem is at the moment that all the shyte is flowing one way:)

If you look at how the selling/marketing of milk has changed over the last 50 years, from liquid milk and cheese to performance drinks, food ingredients etc etc, we need as a beef industry to sit down and design a similar strategy for beef. It's not good enough to expect the consumer to just want our product we need them to really believe that they need our product. Why! As part of a balanced diet it is good for them, its nice and so forth. Finally, we need to tier our product into price ranges, from value to premium so that we have market for cull cows to premium bull/heifer beef.

That's it in a nutshell, I think. Unless we all convert to Dairying,

Birdnuts

whelan2 wrote: »

dairy is on the way down
beef is in crisis
grain is crap
lamb prices are down
spuds are brutal
so what is good to be at?

Your not wrong and if we're honest farming has lurched from one crisis to another for as long as I can remember and probably before. The hard truth is that the money in this sector is made by processors, big agri-business etc. at the expense of the farmer
It doesn't help eithier that the likes of the minister and much of the farming press keep banging on about what a massive success the agri sector is in Ireland. Non- farmers,urbanites etc. then assume farmers are rolling in it and can't understand why they are protesting, agitating etc. for higher prices. This in turn leads to bad press for farmers among the majority of the Irish public:(

mahoney_j

Interesting thread on after hours,miserable bastard farmers.make your fookin blood boil but to a point sort of understand we are always seen to be complaining.watched the news and tonight it was the tillage farmers turn,dairy farming tomorrow night??.peopke really need to be educated on what it costs to produce quality food and why the eubsubsidise us for it.it costs a hell of a lot of mobey,all we want is a fair price

The Letheram

I agree 100% Mahoney but din't we all stick our noses in industrial disputes without understanding the full facts. Be it guards, teachers, nurses or train drivers we all buy the spin and castigate them without listening to their side. Now it is our turn to have the media spin turned on us.

Genghis Cant

mahoney_j wrote: »

Interesting thread on after hours,miserable bastard farmers.make your fookin blood boil but to a point sort of understand we are always seen to be complaining.watched the news and tonight it was the tillage farmers turn,dairy farming tomorrow night??.peopke really need to be educated on what it costs to produce quality food and why the eubsubsidise us for it.it costs a hell of a lot of mobey,all we want is a fair price

To man (or woman) we should all go over to that thread and talk about tractors and cattle and grain and sh1te. Completely derail her!

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

my dad told me a story of bringing a lorry load of cattle to the factory , seeing them killed and buying a brand new car on the way home and had some money left over, wouldnt happen now;)

Ah now that's just teasing that is

GrandSoftDay

mahoney_j wrote: »

Interesting thread on after hours,miserable bastard farmers.make your fookin blood boil but to a point sort of understand we are always seen to be complaining.watched the news and tonight it was the tillage farmers turn,dairy farming tomorrow night??.peopke really need to be educated on what it costs to produce quality food and why the eubsubsidise us for it.it costs a hell of a lot of mobey,all we want is a fair price

I wouldn't take much you read on AH seriously Mahoney!

Reggie.

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

I wouldn't take much you read on AH seriously Mahoney!

I believe the brain is optional over there

blue5000

Great thread, thanks for starting it legs.

What choices do we as farmers have?

Goodman knows that once x amount of cows go in calf he'll have y amount of cattle to process 2 or 3 years down the road.

Once the calves are born he then has access to ICBF data to see what breeds they are, sex they are, and what counties they are in.

In the states all sectors of the beef industry are now making money. Why? Because beef got scarce due to drought and high grain price.

Can we as a group create a shortage of beef?
Actually thanks mods for pulling all these together......

Reggie.

blue5000 wrote: »

Great thread, thanks for starting it legs.

What choices do we as farmers have?

Goodman knows that once x amount of cows go in calf he'll have y amount of cattle to process 2 or 3 years down the road.

Once the calves are born he then has access to ICBF data to see what breeds they are, sex they are, and what counties they are in.

In the states all sectors of the beef industry are now making money. Why? Because beef got scarce due to drought and high grain price.

Can we as a group create a shortage of beef?

Is it possible for us to all work together tho

rangler1

Reggie. wrote: »

Is it possible for us to all work together tho

You see the way the only people who are doing anything are being castigated and undermined here, I'm now telling everyone to walk away (as I have done)and keep their self respect. From what I saw from Naas on the telly, it was mainly IFA officers and staff there...again

leg wax

blue5000 wrote: »

Great thread, thanks for starting it legs.

What choices do we as farmers have?

Goodman knows that once x amount of cows go in calf he'll have y amount of cattle to process 2 or 3 years down the road.

Once the calves are born he then has access to ICBF data to see what breeds they are, sex they are, and what counties they are in.

In the states all sectors of the beef industry are now making money. Why? Because beef got scarce due to drought and high grain price.

Can we as a group create a shortage of beef?

i didnt start it,but its the longest one that my name is under:D:p

Farmer Pudsey

Dont be daft wrote: »

I've seen Henry Burns in action against Larry Goodman and the only thing I'll say is that while he might have been passionate about what he was fighting for, he had nothing to fight with.

The IFA is dead set against going to the Competition Authority and complaining about cartel behaviour. It is very easy for Simon Covney to say there is competition when the IFA are not banging the CA door complaining. There seems to be a gentlemen's agreement since the CA raided the IFA offices that neither will go to CA.

The other issue is it unwillingness to prevent the processors from owning leasing feedlots and using these to control the beef price.

rangler1 wrote: »

You see the way the only people who are doing anything are being castigated and undermined here, I'm now telling everyone to walk away (as I have done)and keep their self respect. From what I saw from Naas on the telly, it was mainly IFA officers and staff there...again

I wonder why that is

TUBBY

A lot of our problem is people don't give a sh1t so protesting outside somewhere only antagonises our consumers further.

a look qt the miserable bastard farmers thread in after hours confirms this.

the knock on effect of the factories curent actions wont be seen properly for 2-3yrs when there will be feck all cattle in the country and beef supply will be seasonal.
then teagasc and government will come out with some Harvest 2025 ****e.

one thing for sure, the beef round table HAS NOT worked.
Simon Coveneys, Eddie Downeys and the bird bia guys email address are available. I would propose we draft a statement on this thread expressing our concerns in a coherent manner and then each of us send.

rangler1

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The IFA is dead set against going to the Competition Authority and complaining about cartel behaviour. It is very easy for Simon Covney to say there is competition when the IFA are not banging the CA door complaining. There seems to be a gentlemen's agreement since the CA raided the IFA offices that neither will go to CA.

The other issue is it unwillingness to prevent the processors from owning leasing feedlots and using these to control the beef price.




I wonder why that is

Beef farmers can't be hurting too badly, if they don't use the vehicles available to them to vent their anger.....good SFPs I suppose
Why don't you check out whether or not IFA asked CA to investigate the factories before you shoot off, you know nothing, its time you stopped shooting off about it here

Farmer Pudsey

rangler1 wrote: »

Beef farmers can't be hurting too badly, if they don't use the vehicles available to them to vent their anger.....good SFPs I suppose
Why don't you check out whether or not IFA asked CA to investigate the factories before you shoot off, you know nothing, its time you stopped shooting off about it here

I was at a meeting last year where the great Henry sai that they would not go to the CA. His reasoning was that they would get no hearing.

The feedlot issue is another no go area.


I am off to the match so will be gone till tomorrow evening

rangler1

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I was at a meeting last year where the great Henry sai that they would not go to the CA. His reasoning was that they would get no hearing.

The feedlot issue is another no go area.


I am off to the match so will be gone till tomorrow evening

You better go back to him because someone's telling lies
Why do you think Coveneys so confident,
Have neighbours here that feed cattle for a factory for the last fifteen years,
I certainly wouldn't be pushing to destroy them

Miname

Rangler I'm disappointed to hear you quit.if nothing else I had to admire the way you argue your principles out even when it wouldn't be the most popular.

Muckit

This is more of it

Rucking_Fetard

Can ye not do something like Truly Irish.

severeoversteer

my neighbour who is fattening cattle for the last 50 years hasn't seen things as bad as they are now

my sfp is smaller than my dap and it still wont cover a tenth of what I have lost on cattle this year

seriously thinking of putting a lot of the land into tillage as its cheaper than having to stock the land

onyerbikepat

Muckit wrote: »

This is more of it

Funny you should put that up. I was kinda saying to myself all week - 'Why the hell are they, as in Larry & Co, dropping the price so much?'. Why kill the goose laying the golden eggs. They need to keep farmers in beef, a lot are thinking of going to dairying as things are. Unless of course, he wanted money for some big investment in a hurry or something.:mad:

Rucking_Fetard

severeoversteer wrote: »

my neighbour who is fattening cattle for the last 50 years hasn't seen things as bad as they are now

my sfp is smaller than my dap and it still wont cover a tenth of what I have lost on cattle this year

seriously thinking of putting a lot of the land into tillage as its cheaper than having to stock the land

Why are some farmers losing money when others are getting on grand??? Few full time beef farmers around me, newish jeeps, newish cars, Hols, baby after baby after baby some of them. Not a bother with them.

FFS like, what am I missing or whose lying?

severeoversteer

Rucking_Fetard wrote: »

Why are some farmers losing money when others are getting on grand??? Few full time beef farmers around me, newish jeeps, newish cars, Hols, baby after baby after baby some of them. Not a bother with them.

FFS like, what am I missing or whose lying?

well now that you say it the lad that's at it for 50 years has a 142 tractor !

he has money because he had a well paying job and plenty of acres with good sfp

coolshannagh28

Goodman wins no matter what ,glut of dairy cross calves supplies the raw materials to keep him in business whether farmers fatten them or his feedlots is irrelevant . Coveney couldn't care less about farmers he is a FG blue blood going straight to the top despite his limitations ,connections are the name of the game . Farmers are subsidised to compensate for not making a profit how long does it take for them to cop onto this . Low return on capital at the best of times ,forestry is the most efficient landuse in these circumstances barring that, low input and maximise subsidy funding.

Username John

Rucking_Fetard wrote: »

Why are some farmers losing money when others are getting on grand??? Few full time beef farmers around me, newish jeeps, newish cars, Hols, baby after baby after baby some of them. Not a bother with them.

FFS like, what am I missing or whose lying?

What? Baby after baby after baby? What's that got to do with the price of beef?

As for your comment re newish cars, holidays - does their partner work off farm?

freedominacup

Username John wrote: »

s - does their partner work off farm?

What has that to do with anything?

Ralphdejones

what de ye all think of the mcdonalds ads for prime irish beef ?
would these not be ole mincers ?

freedominacup

Ralphdejones wrote: »

what de ye all think of the mcdonalds ads for prime irish beef ?
would these not be ole mincers ?

Oddly no. Mickey ds have gotten such a scalding with various controversies about ingredients that they only buy from prime carcasses. Not prime cuts but not offal either.

rangler1

freedominacup wrote: »

What has that to do with anything?

Another income coming in makes a huge difference, really takes the pressure off the farm in the bad years.
its a necessity on most drystock farms

freedominacup

rangler1 wrote: »

Another income coming in makes a huge difference, really takes the pressure off the farm in the bad years.
its a necessity on most drystock farms

It makes a huge difference regardless of what the couple do. The wives/partners of most "young" farmers in my area work full time in fact most of them would have no idea what was happening on the farm. I still don't get the point. How is it different for farm families than other families that both partners work? What is the relevance of what a farmers partner does workwise to a discussion on the income crisis on drystock farms? It would be like talking about a civil servants off job income in a discussion about their pay rates ie not relevant at all.

Muckit

You need to be making money to call it 'income.'

old deere

could ifa campaign for some kind of destruction scheme for dairy calves ,something like we had during the foot and mouth in 01. cost to the state would be offset by the increase in value of remaining calves