The big Phil Fish, Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian discussion thread

kunst nugget · 24-09-2014 9:42am

All I've learnt from this is that people that spend too much time on the internet are well weird. Sigh, why can't I just tend to my 'Caterpillars that look like Tom Selleck's moustache' Tumblr in peace without all this distraction…

Also, looking at how people's Twitter accounts are being trawled through to try and get any bit of dirt on them makes me glad I never got the bug when it came to tweeting.

Shiminay · 24-09-2014 10:34am

Wow...

I always figured there were lots of companies out there who made money out of making scandal, but I'd never much ran into it head on like this (traditional media running scared from the tubes notwithstanding).

K.O.Kiki · 24-09-2014 10:41am

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

supposedly the guy who tends to do this countdown hoax is possible irish: http://www.dailydot.com/news/pickles-yasha-swag-cheating-youtube-views/
http://www.dailydot.com/business/socialvevo-family-guy-hoax-company/

So using smelt it dealt it rules, K.O.Kiki J'accuse!

I. Am. ANONYMOUS!

Genghiz Cohen · 24-09-2014 12:04pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

I. Am. ANONYMOUS!

WE WANT OUR EMMA NUDES!!!

Augmerson · 24-09-2014 6:26pm

Has anyone been looking at the Internet Aristocrat videos about all this on Youtube?

BlitzKrieg · 24-09-2014 6:33pm

Augmerson wrote: »

Has anyone been looking at the Internet Aristocrat videos about all this on Youtube?

one of his videos was linked on the previous page. some were not impressed, some might have been.

Augmerson · 24-09-2014 7:37pm

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

one of his videos was linked on the previous page. some were not impressed, some might have been.

Think his videos are pretty spot on and funny too.

Genghiz Cohen · 25-09-2014 10:22am

Augmerson wrote: »

Think his videos are pretty spot on and funny too.

No ones videos are spot on, watch a load and you may get closer to what is actually happening.

IA's vids are entertaining though.

kunst nugget · 25-09-2014 10:40am

Augmerson wrote: »

Think his videos are pretty spot on and funny too.

The guy's a complete arsehole. Gives out about the ethics of journalism while spouting whatever sh¡te he feels like whether it has any basis in reality or not. You need to get out more if you think he's where it's at.

Nobody making videos about any of this nonsense seems to be able to see the wood for the trees. They're just pumping out their white noise and hot air to act as confirmation bias for whatever side of the fence you decide to plonk yourself on and reducing the opposition to a single entity, be it white male gaming misogynists or SJW feminist white knights.

Genghiz Cohen · 25-09-2014 1:05pm

kunst nugget wrote: »

The guy's a complete arsehole. Gives out about the ethics of journalism while spouting whatever sh¡te he feels like whether it has any basis in reality or not. You need to get out more if you think he's where it's at.

Nobody making videos about any of this nonsense seems to be able to see the wood for the trees. They're just pumping out their white noise and hot air to act as confirmation bias for whatever side of the fence you decide to plonk yourself on and reducing the opposition to a single entity, be it white male gaming misogynists or SJW feminist white knights.

It's all about getting them clicks.

25-09-2014 2:29pm

Augmerson wrote: »

Has anyone been looking at the Internet Aristocrat videos about all this on Youtube?

Link?

BlitzKrieg · 25-09-2014 3:22pm

actually i'm curious

how do gamergate supporters feel about the eurogamer expo?

It's a game convention run by video game journalists, promoting new AAA titles and indie titles chosen by the team at eurogamer, is there not an ethics issue there at all?

edit: Ahh they got around it by renaming it EGX shhh it has nothing to do with eurogamer

gizmo · 25-09-2014 3:32pm

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

actually i'm curious

how do gamergate supporters feel about the eurogamer expo?

It's a game convention run by video game journalists, promoting new AAA titles and indie titles chosen by the team at eurogamer, is there not an ethics issue there at all?

edit: Ahh they got around it by renaming it EGX shhh it has nothing to do with eurogamer

I thought the reason for the rename was so that they could consolidate the branding between Eurogamer Expo and Rezzed into EGX London and EGX Rezzed?

BlitzKrieg · 25-09-2014 3:38pm

gizmo wrote: »

I thought the reason for the rename was so that they could consolidate the branding between Eurogamer Expo and Rezzed into EGX London and EGX Rezzed?

I imagine thats why.

But eurogamer have gone from being the name on the front to being a *media partner* so one could argue that there is no longer an ethics issue.

Course no comments were raised on the ethics of it over the last 3 years.

especially considering eurogamer is not one to hold it's position as a video game journalists lightly, they've broken some big news and do quite a lot of opinion pieces

kunst nugget · 25-09-2014 3:44pm

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

It's all about getting them clicks.

The likes of Cracked are really getting in on the act as well. They've another article on the whole thing and I just checked that Zoe Quinn article of theirs - it's got over 12,000 comments - which is probably about fifty times what they'd normally have under an article. Everyone's making hay with the outrage!

Genghiz Cohen · 25-09-2014 4:26pm

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

actually i'm curious

how do gamergate supporters feel about the eurogamer expo?

Can I ask you how you would define a gamergate supporter?

kunst nugget · 25-09-2014 4:38pm

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Can I ask you how you would define a gamergate supporter?

Small hands, eyes too far apart…

Potatoeman · 25-09-2014 4:44pm

kunst nugget wrote: »

Small hands, eyes too far apart…

Koala bears?

kunst nugget · 25-09-2014 4:49pm

Potatoeman wrote: »

Koala bears?

Aye, only hairless except for their necks.

BlitzKrieg · 25-09-2014 5:09pm

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Can I ask you how you would define a gamergate supporter?

I dont know in the most basic terms, someone who would use the hashtag?

But in this case specifically those who are calling for better journalistic ethics in the video game industry

I dont even know if we have any full on gamergate supporters on the forum, I'd imagine most are sitting on the bench. But I'm sure as hell not taking that question to twitter. I like not being noticed on there.

Augmerson · 25-09-2014 5:40pm

kunst nugget wrote: »

The guy's a complete arsehole. Gives out about the ethics of journalism while spouting whatever sh¡te he feels like whether it has any basis in reality or not. You need to get out more if you think he's where it's at.

Fair enough if you think he's an arsehole, do you think he is lying? On which points?

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Link?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKmy5OKg6lo

COYVB · 25-09-2014 6:02pm

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

actually i'm curious

how do gamergate supporters feel about the eurogamer expo?

It's a game convention run by video game journalists, promoting new AAA titles and indie titles chosen by the team at eurogamer, is there not an ethics issue there at all?

edit: Ahh they got around it by renaming it EGX shhh it has nothing to do with eurogamer

I'm a game journalist and I back a lot of the ideas behind Gamergate. Not the harassment side of things (same for the same thing on the other side of the fence). There's a lot of nonsense going on at the moment that needs to be addressed, and those involved are not doing that

BlitzKrieg · 25-09-2014 6:05pm

and how do you feel about the eurogamer expo?

COYVB · 25-09-2014 6:09pm

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

and how do you feel about the eurogamer expo?

No issue with it or anything like it. It's an event where people can play games. Not sure why it's all that relevant.

If, on the other hand, something came to light that Eurogamer was excluding certain developers or publishers from it to help their buddies out, then I'd have concerns about the ethics behind it.

As it stands, Eurogamer Expo is show put on to make big wads of cash. Wads of cash that'll be taken from anyone who wants to book a stand to show off their stuff

gizmo · 25-09-2014 6:37pm

COYVB wrote: »

I'm a game journalist and I back a lot of the ideas behind Gamergate. Not the harassment side of things (same for the same thing on the other side of the fence). There's a lot of nonsense going on at the moment that needs to be addressed, and those involved are not doing that

Therein lies the interesting point that seems to have been lost in the melee. One can be in favour of higher standards of journalism ethics and still not be a member of, have any part in or even be a fan of the hashtag campaign as it has existed to date.

Timmyctc · 25-09-2014 11:04pm

kunst nugget wrote: »

The likes of Cracked are really getting in on the act as well. They've another article on the whole thing and I just checked that Zoe Quinn article of theirs - it's got over 12,000 comments - which is probably about fifty times what they'd normally have under an article. Everyone's making hay with the outrage!

Just FYI there was a competition within that article's comment section to get to 10k comments. 90% of the comments were filler :P

COYVB · 25-09-2014 11:14pm

gizmo wrote: »

Therein lies the interesting point that seems to have been lost in the melee. One can be in favour of higher standards of journalism ethics and still not be a member of, have any part in or even be a fan of the hashtag campaign as it has existed to date.

One can also want higher female representation within the industry, better and more mature stories AND an end to the buddy club that's causing the issues. I don't like this idea that it's binary.

There's some stuff that's gone on on both "sides" that's absolutely insane...

You've got journos treating the industry like a game, activists intentionally creating and manipulating highly predictable "gamer rage" to serve their own interests, and moronic members of the gaming community who are too dumb to realise that roaring and shouting abuse is a major part of the problem, not the avenue through which things will improve.

Then there are the dickheads on all sides who think doxxing is in any way appropriate.

It's a perfect storm of shortsightedness and insular thinking that's resulting in journalists attempting to protect their buddies at all costs, gamers wanting journo blood, and everyone thinking everyone is out to get everyone else.

I had a good 40 minute long phone call with Thresh, who some of you might remember from back in the day, today where we chatted about where game journalism needs to go, and we both agreed that it needed a kick in the arse, albeit not quite one this bad or messy

K.O.Kiki · 26-09-2014 3:32pm

Meanwhile, actual game development: http://thefineyoungcapitalists.tumblr.com/post/98422490495/a-response-to-social-justice-viv

Interesting that ZQ gets $38k for doing literally nothing.

Genghiz Cohen · 26-09-2014 3:41pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Meanwhile, actual game development: http://thefineyoungcapitalists.tumblr.com/post/98422490495/a-response-to-social-justice-viv

Interesting that ZQ gets k for doing literally nothing.

Who/what is a 'Social Justice Viv'?

gizmo · 26-09-2014 4:27pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Meanwhile, actual game development: http://thefineyoungcapitalists.tumblr.com/post/98422490495/a-response-to-social-justice-viv

Interesting that ZQ gets $38k for doing literally nothing.

The wording of that blog post is pretty atrocious to be honest. They can't claim it's "not really Us vs Her" and then turn around and refer to her as their "opponent", bringing up her Patreon and pointing out she earns more from it than any of the TFYC team, saying they could create a game like Depression Quest in about a week, complaining about the narrative they themselves helped distort and referring to her as the "queen" of the other side.

As for her getting the money from Patreon for doing "literally nothing", that's a fundamental misunderstanding of what the service represents. People give her money so she can continue to work on the kinds of projects they want to see come to fruition, whether it's a follow up to Depression Quest, Camps Not Dead or her work on Framed. Could she do that while working a full time job like other part-time indie devs? Probably, but her supporters on the service are quite happy to back her financially doing what she does currently.

While I don't support anyone on Patreon, if I did it would probably be someone like Eric Calderone. Why? Because I love his videos, am aware they take a lot of time and feel like supporting his efforts. If I felt he was doing nothing then you can be damn sure I wouldn't support him any more.

The big Phil Fish, Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian discussion thread

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