The search for Ireland's first meteorite cold find.

jonnyc74

Is it possible to find meteorites here in Ireland?

We have our fair share of fireballs, on average two witnessed sightings per year, a number of these sightings are documented as meotor breakups which would all most certanly have produced meteorite fragments. So the question is - why has Ireland still not produced a meteorite cold find?

They are certanly out there, other countries in similar temperate zones have made discoveries - so why not in Ireland?

Someone probably has at some point - a farmer ploughing a field, a golf course grounds man, a hillwalker - all make suitable canditates for finding meteorites, however, lack of knowledge means that an important find may have been discarded purely out of ignorance.

& what if someone does discover one - will they be welcomed by the scientific community, not likely - the scientific community are just as good at discarding meteorites (just like the farmer or the groundworker I mentioned above), however in the case of science community, is done with intent & an assumption that the finder is ignorant & lacks the knowledge to make any form of assessment, some individuals will even go as far as contradict accepted science in order to discredit potential finds - which has recently happened here in Ireland.

& are the scientific community even remotely interested in an Irish cold find - NO is the simple answer, there is a closed network consisting of meteorite hunters & dealers who have links to areas around the world which are much more favourable for detecting meteorites, desert regions & such, so there is a ready supply of meteorites being found - no shortage of research material.

I think we will have to wait for the next fireball to be spotted over Ireland before there is any hope of recovering meteorites. It seems that once the initial hype that is generated by the media following such events blows over - the science community will revert to their defalt position of discrediting potential finds.

So the outlook I am afraid is grim - the chances of discovery are remote, but not impossible, the meteorite communtiy advise you to do your own research first before approaching the experts with your find, sound advice considering these guys are innundated with requests about average terrestrial rocks - so on one hand I can understand why the scientific community are the way they are, on the other they are not doing themselves any favours & run the risk of doing science a disservice through their actions.

Thanks for reading!
Jon

MeteoritesEire

farmers fields are the most likely location for Irelands first cold find.I have placed ads in farmers mags but no likely suspects as of yet.

My eyes are always peeled when out walking anywhere.

here is a link to tests which can be done to determine on a basic level if your suspected rock may be a meteorite


http://meteorite-identification.com/streak.html

Anyone looking for real meteorites to handle and view -check my adverts ads ;-)

jonnyc74

So if you are out for one of your walks & you happen to find a rock which has characteristics of a meteorite - fusion crust, flow lines, regmaglypts & other markings that are clearly a result of ablation. You take the rock home to investigate further - you check the density, the rock has a density of 3.4g/cm3.. You check with a magnet - There is no magnetic attraction detected..

Based on the above scenario - Would you,

Keep the rock because the rock has to many characteristics which are consistent with a meteorite for it NOT to be a meteorite?

OR

Stick to the accepted view of those in the meteorite world & chuck it away because it is more than likely a terrestrial rock?


Quite a number of websites (such as the one you linked) place considerable emphasis on the magnetic test, this is fair enough considering about 95% of stone meteorites are chondrites - this leaves about 5% which are of the achondrite group. Magnets & metal detectors can be used to find chondrite meteorites, however it is pointless using detecting equipment to find an achondrite meteorite because they have virtually zero iron content & do not register with metal detectors or stick to a magnet. Meteorite Man - Jeoff Notkin summs it up on his aerolite website -

"An extremely small percentage of meteorites (far less than one in a thousand) do not show strong attraction to a magnet. They are so rare that we usually discount anything that will not adhere to a magnet"

So in other words - If the professionals are unable to detect the rare meteorite types, then in the professionals view - the novice hunter will have no chance.

Finally when we take all of the above into account it is highly probable that rare meteorites have been found only to be disgarded because of misleading information & sadly there seems to be no scientific safety net present to safeguard these precious gifts from the universe being discovered... only to be lost again.

Such a shame!

mickmackey1

I don't know the exact definition of a 'cold find' but a British collector located an Irish meteorite in 2003

http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com/msg48999.html

and yet this doesn't seem to be included in the official lists; it's actually pretty historic because apparently only 5 other meteorites have been found in the Republic

http://www.meteoritehistory.info/UKIRELAND/SEIRE.HTM

seems to back up what you're saying about the community being a bit of a closed shop.

jonnyc74

Cold find would describe a meteorite discovered by chance & one not associated with a witnessed fall, whereas witnessed fall finds are exactly that, finds retrieved directly following a witnessed fall. It would be interesting to know if it is possible to associate a cold find with a fireball event that was documented a number of years prior, for example - Ireland has had about 7 fireball incidents over the last 4 years, two of those events in 2010 & 2012 were reported to be large & fragmenting, both would almost certainly have produced meteorites. If fragments were reported to have landed in one area & fragments were later recovered 20kms from the alleged area four years later - would it be possible to connnect the two together? Is there a scientific test that can be carried out to determine the earth years of the meteorite, so as a means to establish the fireball that produced the meteorites?

Your link is interesting, I have not heard of this find, would have thought that it would be classified if it is what it is.

mickmackey1

Good question. I think this article refers to the actual fireball from early 2003

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Meteorite+rock+worth+pounds+20%2c000.-a097667317

but we're not sure when the specimen was actually found. I remember reading somewhere that a meteorite found in England was linked to a dazzling fireball seen in 1783, but not certain if that's scientifically accepted.

jonnyc74

It would probably be difficult to make the connection, I remember reading an article by David Morre of Astronomy Ireland, he mentioned that we probably have about two per year, however there could be more that are not accounted for that strike when there are cloudy conditions & occur in the early hours when there is less activity. Your 1st link mentions the fact that they deteriorate rapidly, I suppose they will blend in & become just another terresterial rock over time.

MeteoritesEire

Graham Ensor is the man who found the piece in 2003.He is a fellow BIMS member http://www.bimsociety.org/

***it was a piece of Leighlinbridge which fell in 1999 so there is no cold irish find yet.***

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=12759

In regards to achondrites-if I found something unusual which superficially resembled a meteorite I would personally file a window into it for a look.A €2 diamond file can accomplish this but not everyone would know what to look for.Best advice is seek help.

*** seems I'm wrong.Will ask Graham for more info although Martin Goff, another BIMS member, says on his website that the small meteorite associated with the 2003 fireball was an unequilbrated H3 chondrite.

http://msg-meteorites.co.uk/meteorite-adventures/bims-open-university-visit

mickmackey1

Seems amazing that you can find a small stone like that in the wilds of Donegal, he must have been well chuffed

MeteoritesEire

Graham has clarified his find.It was actually found near the Burren and he was walking along with his magnetic stick collecting everything that stuck to it.The reason why it hasn't been properly recognised by the Nom Com (Nomenclature Committee) is because it was partially embedded in some tarmac and the possibility exists that despite its' fresh newly fallen appearance, it may have been transported to the area in roadfill. Graham said he will take some new pics of it, I'll ask if it's ok to post them here.I'm sure he'll be happy to do that.

Rucking_Fetard

To Find Meteorites, Listen to the Legends of Australian Aborigines