Survivor: San Juan del Sur — Blood vs. Water (US) [** Spoilers **]

Also Starring LeVar Burton

I'm very close to calling this as the worst ever season of Survivor... It's so boring... The challenges are actually really good compared to recent years, but the castaways are crap and there really isn't anyone likeable amongst them... Keith and Wes are the best of a bad bunch, but in other seasons both could easily be the worst of a good bunch... I'll stick with it because I'm a huge Survivor fan, but some weeks this season have felt like a chore to watch...

Toto Wolfcastle

I like Keith, Wes, Josh and Reed and Jeremy. I don't like Missy at all. I think Baylor would benefit from dropping her mother at some stage.

GreNoLi

This season makes One World seem as good as Pearl Islands, Probst has to be near the end, oh how I pine for the days when he kept schtum during challenges, I guess next season will be an all star one, hopefully with second timers only, the Blood VS Water concept makes me uneasy and that's some achievment considering that manipulation is the name of the game.

Oh and Julie if you're reading this and I know you are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akf4TrBtCdg

Thargor

Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »

I'm very close to calling this as the worst ever season of Survivor... It's so boring... The challenges are actually really good compared to recent years, but the castaways are crap and there really isn't anyone likeable amongst them... Keith and Wes are the best of a bad bunch, but in other seasons both could easily be the worst of a good bunch... I'll stick with it because I'm a huge Survivor fan, but some weeks this season have felt like a chore to watch...

Have to agree with the chore to watch comment, I haven't bothered with any Reddit Survivor or Robbs podcasts this season either because its just boring.

noveltea

I hate the happy couple. They are doing my head in.

Kirby

Blood vs water ruins the dynamics of the game. 8 individuals is more interesting than 4 couples because of the permutations in voting and back stabbing. That simply cant happen with couples. They aren't going to turn on each other and it takes something vital away from the game.

Toto Wolfcastle

Quote of the episode from Keith: 'Wes is a good kid. He ain't been in jail yet.'

evilivor

Kirby wrote: »

Blood vs water ruins the dynamics of the game. 8 individuals is more interesting than 4 couples because of the permutations in voting and back stabbing. That simply cant happen with couples. They aren't going to turn on each other and it takes something vital away from the game.

This is the dullest season ever.

I honestly could care more at this stage who wins - there is no one there that I like and, bar some cannibalism, I can't see how they can liven it up either.

Foxtrol

I'd say Jon didn't enjoy watching that episode. Jaclyn getting annoyed with the boys being rude and saying that Jon will do whatever she says. Whether he thought it was a good idea or not it doesn't look good for him in the jury's eyes to appear to be whipped like that.

Overall I agree, it's really a terrible season so far! I think the last BvW worked better as we knew the returnees and the option to swap out to redemption made it more interesting. Hopefully this is the last we'll see of the gimmick.

seligehgit

Bobblehead Panda wrote: »

Quote of the episode from Keith: 'Wes is a good kid. He ain't been in jail yet.'

Ah god damn it you beat me to the punch,absolutely hilarious!Said in my most pronounced deep south hick accent.:pac:


It's truly amazing that 2 so ineffectual players as Jon and Jacyln can have such a major role as powerbrokers,frat boy antics proved very costly to Josh.

S.M.B.

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'd say Jon didn't enjoy watching that episode. Jaclyn getting annoyed with the boys being rude and saying that Jon will do whatever she says. Whether he thought it was a good idea or not it doesn't look good for him in the jury's eyes to appear to be whipped like that.

Overall I agree, it's really a terrible season so far! I think the last BvW worked better as we knew the returnees and the option to swap out to redemption made it more interesting. Hopefully this is the last we'll see of the gimmick.

I disagree on your John point. Calling him "whipped" is a bit ridiculous to be honest.

You could look at it numerous different ways. His partner is being disrespected so he opts to go with the alliance who treats her reasonably well? His partner makes a valid argument that they have a better chance against the "weaker" grouper players? His partner persuades him to set aside his wish to be "one of the guys" and to play with his head instead.

It doesn't make John look particularly bad either way. I think he'd look worse if he didn't listen. Maybe it makes Jaclyn look stronger. And given that they are playing as a team that might not be a bad thing.

Kirby

No, it was an emotional response not a tactical one.....the line about playing with weaker players was a justification after the fact.

Simple fact is, "They were mean to me, let's flip" rarely works out well and that's exactly where she was coming from. The mental gymnastics the pair of them went through after that was irrelevant.....but it's typical of the calibre of player we are dealing with this season.

You play the game with your head or you go home. They have now aligned with a bunch of likeable people. Their old alliance was full of asshats that nobody would vote for at the end.

Foxtrol

S.M.B. wrote: »

I disagree on your John point. Calling him "whipped" is a bit ridiculous to be honest.

You could look at it numerous different ways. His partner is being disrespected so he opts to go with the alliance who treats her reasonably well? His partner makes a valid argument that they have a better chance against the "weaker" grouper players? His partner persuades him to set aside his wish to be "one of the guys" and to play with his head instead.

It doesn't make John look particularly bad either way. I think he'd look worse if he didn't listen. Maybe it makes Jaclyn look stronger. And given that they are playing as a team that might not be a bad thing.

Totally disagree. He was clearly seen as the leader of the pair by the guys, seeing as they only approached him all the time, and if Jaclyn didn't persuade him, after stating she can make him do whatever she wanted, then the other alliance would have accept he had decent power in the pair.

Unless there was a bitter jury I don't know how it puts him in a better position. Jaclyn has clearly told the new alliance that she can make him do what she wants and she followed through on that statement. She made it clear this was her solely her choice so how can he be respected by them after that?

Either way I think it's a poor move for both of them, done out of emotion rather than logic. They've now aligned themselves with a group who are playing the game much harder and have put targets on their backs within that group by being a pair in a strongly singles oriented alliance and also being seen as two of the stronger physical threats for challenges. They both can't win immunity every week to keep them safe.

Dumb move for both but a bit dumber for Jon.

S.M.B.

@kirby

Jaclyns head was turned based on an emotional response. As you said she presented an argument to John of "They were mean to me, let's flip". The edit clearly presents it in a way that makes it look like it all boiled down to emotions but we won't know for a while exactly what steps they took to come to their final decision.

And as for their old alliance being full of ass hats that nobody would vote for? Was Josh an ass hat? And is Reed one? You could easily argue that two of the strongest 3 players were in the alliance they walked away from.

But maybe I'm simply being defensive on the basis that I think it was the right move, regardless of how they got there.

@Foxtrol

A strongly singles oriented alliance? It has 1 more single? It also has 1 less person. So now they are one of two pairs in an alliance of 6, instead of being 1 of 3 pairs in an alliance of 7.

And I don't see how they stand out as any more or less of a physical threat based on which alliance they've gone with.

And lets say they voted with Josh/Reed and they all of a sudden find themselves obvious physical threats at the bottom of an alliance of 7 versus an opposing alliance of 3. They are technically surplus to requirements. What's stopping the 5 other guys blindsiding John/Jaclyn the following week? The numbers would still be stacked in Josh and Reeds favour which means they could sail to a final 5 with a bunch of ass hats. It's hard to think that wouldn't cross their mind.

Anyway, in a season of weak strategic players, it's anyones to win. And I really don't see last nights key decision being a 'dumb' move.

Foxtrol

S.M.B. wrote: »

@Foxtrol

A strongly singles oriented alliance? It has 1 more single? It also has 1 less person. So now they are one of two pairs in an alliance of 6, instead of being 1 of 3 pairs in an alliance of 7.

Strongly might be overstating it since Julie quit but Jeremy is running things in that alliance and as an individual he'll likely blindside a couple within his alliance when he gets an opportunity (most likely the stronger one).

And I don't see how they stand out as any more or less of a physical threat based on which alliance they've gone with.

And lets say they voted with Josh/Reed and they all of a sudden find themselves obvious physical threats at the bottom of an alliance of 7 versus an opposing alliance of 3. They are technically surplus to requirements. What's stopping the 5 other guys blindsiding John/Jaclyn the following week? The numbers would still be stacked in Josh and Reeds favour which means they could sail to a final 5 with a bunch of ass hats. It's hard to think that wouldn't cross their mind.

You called that alliance 'weaker players' yourself when you were saying it was a good idea to go with them. The other alliance has several young guys there whereas the one they've gone with has Missy and Baylor. They are in no way the obvious physical threat in the other group containing Wes and Alec.

Anyway, in a season of weak strategic players, it's anyones to win. And I really don't see last nights key decision being a 'dumb' move.

You can argue the decision from Jaclyn's perspective but my original point was that as an individual player it was definitely a dumb move for Jon, for the reasons I've listed (the core of which you never responded to).

Having said that if I was in Jon's boots I'd probably do whatever Jaclyn said to keep her happy so I can't be too hard on the guy.

S.M.B.

Your reasons being that the guys on the other side of the game have lost respect for John and won't give him their vote in the final tribal?

I don't buy that. Who knows what way Keith, Wes and Alec will vote. Given their lack of strategic thinking I'd question them basing their vote on a decision like this so early in the game.

If John can get Jeremy out before the final 4 then he's in a very good position to win imo.

And part of my point is that those two aren't playing individual games in the first place.

Anyway, this season doesn't even deserve this amount of strategic discussion....

Foxtrol

S.M.B. wrote: »

Your reasons being that the guys on the other side of the game have lost respect for John and won't give him their vote in the final tribal?

I don't buy that. Who knows what way Keith, Wes and Alec will vote. Given their lack of strategic thinking I'd question them basing their vote on a decision like this so early in the game.

If John can get Jeremy out before the final 4 then he's in a very good position to win imo.

And part of my point is that those two aren't playing individual games in the first place.

And the fact he'd have lost the respect of his new alliance given the fact Jaclyn stated that she could make him do whatever she wanted and then showed she had the power to do just that.

He weakened his position as a player from all sides.

Anyway, this season doesn't even deserve this amount of strategic discussion....

If you feel that way then maybe in the future you might refrain from responding to posts by calling them ridiculous, when you don't want to defend that view! :rolleyes:

S.M.B.

I was merely trying to bring the discussion to a close a we seemed to be going around in circles.

But looking back at my original post I do see how my use of "ridiculous" is a bit misguided.

Your point that jurors might perceive last weeks events as John being whipped is a valid one.

The idea that he was/is whipped is what I wanted to highlight as being ridiculous.

I basically think that the edit played a big part in trying to show us that this decision was John towing the line after an emotional response by Jaclyn.

I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that more thought and logic was put into the decision.

Heck, for all we know, the deciding factor was Jeremy winning immunity.

astonaidan

Worst Season Ever

Thargor

Jaclyn does wear a bikini well though...

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Hope the post-christmas Season will have some returning players - at least it's pretty much guaranteed to be entertaining with players we know already...

S.M.B.

I don't think they need returning players. Just cast individuals that want to be and should be there. Not couples for a blood versus water season.

I think the issue with this season is they tried to reverse engineer the success of the previous BvsW season and made a sh*te of it.

Also, I get the feeling that it's already publicly known whether there are returning players taking part in the 30th anniversary edition next spring.

BobMc

its been poor alright, just not the same calibur of players as last season, I think josh was a good vote out, his bf is next I'm guessing, thought the merge would help but its not picked up its pace at all, still gonna watch it through though

Thargor

At this stage in any other season Id be able to tell you all the members of the 2 or more main alliances, the relations between every member with every other member, exactly what went wrong for the people on the bottom, what went right for the people on top, Id probably have the final 3 guessed by now or final 5 anyway and most importantly Id be looking forward to my Survivor fix every week...

This season... nothing, I barely know their names or who's with who besides the redneck father and John and Jaclyn. Its a pity aswell because the challenges are well designed this year.

BobMc

how many idols in play now 3, so a good blindside should be in the offing if idol is played at right time ??

Foxtrol

What sort of move was that? I'm all for blindsiding stronger players but it's madness when you have nothing solid set up going forward and could easily end up without the numbers after the vote (only 4 solid with 5 others left who you've screwed over in the last two votes).

Once again showing Jon has no idea what he's doing!

noveltea

From the way it was edited it was obvious who was going to go. Disappointed with who went was going for him. Surprised with missed and Baylor.

Kirby

The heat will be all on John and Jaclyn now which is great for Missy and Baylor. They get to scoot by for the next few weeks while everyone else guns for.....everyone else.

If I had to pick a winner at the moment, It would be Missy.

I know there is a long way to go but most of the players seem like morons and she seems to have a clue, she's liked by everyone and she had the good sense to get rid of the only other player who was liked more than her.

S.M.B.

Ah here, what was that move all about? I'm baffled.

At least it means it's not a predictable 4 weeks in a row.

There's too much of that episode left on the editing room floor to know what happened. But surely J&J, M&B could have postponed this move until they were down to the final 6. Now it means there's a free for all.

Looking forward to the explanation next week.

GreNoLi

In the reunion for Caramoan the players that didn't make the merge were confined to the audience, this season's whole cast should be there this time.

In saying that I hope that the couples get decoupled because of that move, Reed,Wes,Keith,Natalie and Alex could easily knock them off but I don't think any of them have a strong enough of an edit (combined) for that to happen although Natalie could sneak it.

The rewards are far too ornate for my liking, the survival aspect has completely vanished.

#WorstSeasonEvah