Should it be illegal to cycle while wearing headphones? On the spot fine?

Deedsie

Should it be illegal to cycle while wearing headphones? On the spot fine?

Just wondering other people's opinions on this? Maybe start a discussion.

I think it's a bit careless and potentially very dangerous for a cyclist to be on the public road and not be focused totally on the job of cycling safely from A to B?

adrian522

No.

Eamonnator

Is it any worse than a motorist, sitting comfortably, in a soundproof car, listening to his stereo, chatting to his passengers?

Wishbone Ash

What next.....ban those who are deaf/hard of hearing from cycling?

.....those who are old, those who don't have 4 limbs etc.

Inspector Coptoor

Go home OP, you're talking brown

Deedsie

Eamonnator wrote: »

Is it any worse than a motorist, sitting comfortably, in a soundproof car, listening to his stereo, chatting to his passengers?

Well a motorist has mirrors and an almost 360 view of the area surrounding his or her car... A cyclist doesn't...

Regardless, my position on motorists being focused 100% on safely getting from A to B is the same as for cyclists. Using mobiles etc

It's a bit of a strange argument to point at the wrong doings of motorists to justify the wrong doings of cyclists

Deedsie

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

What next.....ban those who are deaf/hard of hearing from cycling?

.....those who are old, those who don't have 4 limbs etc.

That's actually a good point re the hearing impaired. I hadn't considered that before.

Wishbone Ash

Deedsie wrote: »

Well a motorist has mirrors and an almost 360 view of the area surrounding his or her car... A cyclist doesn't..

A cyclist has much better visual awareness of what going on around their bike than any motorist. All vehicle have blind spots and those with no side or rear windows, such as trucks and vans, will have excessive blind areas.

...and mirrors are only effective if actually used properly.

mrty

Don't know about a fine but I do think it should be illegal. For obvious reasons.

CatFromHue

I wear headphones alot when I cycle and when I'm in an urban environment I can't always hear them due to the traffic, same for when I'm descending a big hill too.

Relying on your hearing when you're on the bike is just not reliable enough, you have to always check visually.

Another thing to consider is if you see someone not paying attention when they've headphones is that would they pay attention if they didn't have them in? If you see someone breeze through a red light with headphones on there's a huge chance they'd do the same with headphones off too.

Jawgap

mrty wrote: »

Don't know about a fine but I do think it should be illegal. For obvious reasons.

Why?

I see people walking and driving with headphones in so why should it illegal on a bike? And what about motorcyclists with their helmets - don't they impair hearing?

I don't use headphones but when I'm out for a spin with a group I'm probably more distracted than I'd ever be with headphones on.

Eamonnator

Deedsie wrote: »

Well a motorist has mirrors and an almost 360 view of the area surrounding his or her car... A cyclist doesn't...

Regardless, my position on motorists being focused 100% on safely getting from A to B is the same as for cyclists. Using mobiles etc

It's a bit of a strange argument to point at the wrong doings of motorists to justify the wrong doings of cyclists

What's wrong with driving with the stereo on, chatting to passengers?

Wishbone Ash

I've driven vehicles where the use of ear protection was mandatory while the engine was running.

McDave

I listen to the radio on my earphones all the time when cycling. I can hear all going on around me. It's a different thing blocking out your surroundings listening to, say, thrash or techno. But ultimately the criterion is whether you are paying due attention, whether you're a pedestrian, cyclist or driver. IMO it's pure nonsense to restrict any of these classes from listening to media when on the public highway.

Beasty

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Go home OP, you're talking brown

If you have a problem with a post or poster use the report post function. Do not start telling other posters what to do or where to go

YellowFeather

I understand the point if somebody is zoned out to the point of not paying attention, but I listen to music when I'm cycling and am always hyper-aware of my surroundings. You kind of have to be in Dublin city centre!

NBar

I don't use headphones when out for a spin as just feel getting out on the bike with no distractions etc is the best and just listening to the sounds around is enough, I have no problem with someone just using a single ear bud but those with their big "Beats" etc are just taking the piss. Get out on your bike and leave the distractions of everyday world crap behind for the hour or two your on the road.

murphyebass

A fine? Probably not. I'd rather see them police the one thing that bugs most motorists which is cyclists breaking lights constantly. I still can't believe how many do this every day of the week.

However do I think it's safe? Absolutely not. Pure stupidity imo. It's hard enough to stay safe on a bike these days without having a headphone in your ear.

I was out earlier for a 30k approx spin on the bike. I was nearly clipped by a van who was too impatient to delay passing me until the car on the other side of the road went by and also passed very unsafely by a tractor and large trailer on a country road. I was doin about 30km on said road, he flew by me. God knows what speed he was doing.

As both a cyclist and a motorist I just think people need to think before they act and that's both cyclists and motorists. We share the road. Stay safe all.

Edit... Lastly I just saw someone say above its nice to be in your own thoughts on a cycle. I couldn't agree more. The beautiful countryside etc is more than enough for me

RobertFoster

Sometimes, when the wind blows a certain way, I can't hear anything while cycling. I think we should ban the wind.

Trojan

I agree with the OP, headphones on cyclists should be banned. For exactly the same reason, of course, we should also remove all in vehicle audio - radios, CD players since it's been shown that audio devices in cars reduce hearing more than cyclists headphones. Obviously this needs to be a dual approach law with the other half being mandatory full face helmets for cyclists and all drivers given the high risk of head injuries to both types of road users in accidents.

Alternatively, a bit of cop on and tolerance for others from everyone using the road and we'll all be safer without needing to don kevlar every time we step out the front door.

bigar

murphyebass wrote: »

A fine? Probably not. I'd rather see them police the one thing that bugs most motorists which is cyclists breaking lights constantly.

Well, that did not take long :rolleyes:

murphyebass

bigar wrote: »

Well, that did not take long :rolleyes:

It's true though. What's the point in bringing in new fines if we can't police the most obvious of all?

Roll eyes all ya like but personally I like to be safe in my car and on my bike. Rules like not breaking lights are there for a reason, you know safety, staying alive and all that lark.

Anyway I wasn't trying to start a conversation about the lights as I know people are for and against. I was just saying although it's probably a good idea to put a fine on the use of earphones for everyone's safety I don't see the point as we don't police the laws we already have.

Motorists are just as bad. I saw several people on their phones driving earlier.

A seriously under policed country really.

magicbastarder

are noise generators mandatory on electric vehicles?

VR46

You can't leave cyclists alone with their thoughts for extended periods of time. They're barely sane as it is.

Chips Lovell

Nope. But it should be illegal to listen to crap music.

knipper

I always listen to podcasts while cycling. Best of both worlds. Not as loud as music so You can hear around you and have your mind occupied while cycling. I don't enjoy cycling alone without headphones. I use the time on the bike to catch up on the news and sports I miss during the week. If out with friends or on a sportive I don't use headphones tho. I can honestly say I wouldn't go out as much if I couldn't listen to my podcasts.

CatFromHue

knipper wrote: »

I always listen to podcasts while cycling. Best of both worlds. Not as loud as music so You can hear around you and have your mind occupied while cycling. I don't enjoy cycling alone without headphones. I use the time on the bike to catch up on the news and sports I miss during the week. If out with friends or on a sportive I don't use headphones tho. I can honestly say I wouldn't go out as much if I couldn't listen to my podcasts.

Me too, if anything I go cycling to listen to podcasts!

CatFromHue

murphyebass wrote: »

It's hard enough to stay safe on a bike these days without having a headphone in your ear.

I was out earlier for a 30k approx spin on the bike. I was nearly clipped by a van who was too impatient to delay passing me until the car on the other side of the road went by and also passed very unsafely by a tractor and large trailer on a country road. I was doin about 30km on said road, he flew by me. God knows what speed he was doing.

Cycling isn't that dangerous!

Anyway if you'd been listening to headphones would that have affected those incidents you mentioned?

murphyebass

CatFromHue wrote: »

Cycling isn't that dangerous!

Anyway if you'd been listening to headphones would that have affected those incidents you mentioned?

There's definitely more dangerous sports out there but its certainly not the safest of hobbies/commute options.

Whether those incidents would have turned out any differently isn't the issue. Maybe they would maybe they wouldn't.
I only pointed them out to emphasise we've enough to be dealing with without purposely increasing the potential risk.

I personally believe that earphones are just another hazard/distraction that are just completely unnecessary tbh.

mrty

Jawgap wrote: »

Why?

I see people walking and driving with headphones in so why should it illegal on a bike? And what about motorcyclists with their helmets - don't they impair hearing?

I don't use headphones but when I'm out for a spin with a group I'm probably more distracted than I'd ever be with headphones on.

People in cars shouldn't be driving whilst wearing headphones its ludicrous. Nobody in charge of any vehicle should be listening to music through headphones. Motorcycle helmets are designed so your hearing is impeded as little as possible.

aFlabbyPanda

mrty wrote: »

People in cars shouldn't be driving whilst wearing headphones its ludicrous.

Why? whats the difference between that and the radio? (assuming the wire isn't getting in the way).

tbh its as futile as making high viz, helmets & lights compulsory.

trying to get all road users to behave in a sensible manner and respect each other is whats needed to make the roads safer.

Jawgap

mrty wrote: »

People in cars shouldn't be driving whilst wearing headphones its ludicrous. Nobody in charge of any vehicle should be listening to music through headphones. Motorcycle helmets are designed so your hearing is impeded as little as possible.

But motorbike helmets still impede hearing!

Also, I'm in the processor getting a new car and one attribute that's been pitched to me a few times is how quiet the cabins are - cars are increasingly designed to exclude ambient noise.

a148pro

What do cyclists lose by having earphones in? The sound of a vehicle driving badly that's going to kill them anyway? Serious question.

peneau

Deedsie wrote: »

Well a motorist has mirrors and an almost 360 view of the area surrounding his or her car... A cyclist doesn't...

People on bikes can turn their head

loinnsigh

magicbastarder wrote: »

are noise generators mandatory on electric vehicles?

Yep but the noise generator only operates below 30km/h because above that speed for ALL cars the majority of noise is road/wind noise not engine noise. So EVs are not some kind of phantom menace that will creep up on you

Deedsie

peneau wrote: »

People on bikes can turn their head

Yes, I am one of them... A lot of cyclists don't bother though, it seems the 180 in front is all that matters. Listening to music while cycling definitely impedes ability to hear any other cyclists or motorists attempting to overtake etc?

To me that is just inconsiderate of other road users...

lennymc

Jawgap wrote: »

And what about motorcyclists with their helmets - don't they impair hearing?

No, however, it is normally recommended that you wear ear plugs to prevent hearing damage due to wind noise.

bambergbike

When cycling through cold rain, snow, and winter fog, I wear a fleece cap with earflaps, and a cycling helmet on top to clamp it firmly in place. It works, I get home with toasty ears in horrendous weather. But once I'm dressed and ready to go, I can't stop for a chat with anybody - I wouldn't be able to hear it. I don't hear any wind noise at all on the bike, either - the whole world goes really quiet. I just assume that there is probably traffic coming up behind me whether I can hear any or not, and try and position myself to be visible from quite far back and predictable in my movements.

Any headphones law mooted falls short on this simple logic - when Boris Johnson had a rant about cyclists and headphones, some pictures quickly surfaced showing him wearing a hat which was as noise-insulating as any headphones to keep his ears warm. If you ban headphones because they impair hearing, you have to ban hats. That would make winter cycling a crappy experience, especially for people who wear glasses or live in places that get snow.

Distracted cycling while on a mobile phone is something I see a lot - it mainly seems to make cyclists very slow. Irritating when stuck behind them in rush hour traffic waiting for a safe overtaking opportunity, but not up really up there with the hazards of drivers playing with phones or programming satnavs or (legally but stupidly!) concentrating hard on language learning CDs or other educational or work-related audio material requiring very intense concentration.

There are so many better candidates crying out for road-safety legislation. We could set out in excruciating detail what "driving to the conditions" means, for example: if you have 50 metres visibility, you drive at not more than 50 km/h. 40 metres visibility = 40 km/h and so on. So that you can stop in the distance you can see to be clear. If the road is so narrow that you are sharing carriageway space with oncoming traffic, you need to be able to stop in half the distance you can see to be clear.

With legislation like that, even cyclists with hats and helmets and headphones and dogs and children and suitcases would feel a bit safer when they venture out on cold, dark winter evenings.

victorcarrera

Deedsie wrote: »

Should it be illegal to cycle while wearing headphones? On the spot fine?

Just wondering other people's opinions on this? Maybe start a discussion.

I think it's a bit careless and potentially very dangerous for a cyclist to be on the public road and not be focused totally on the job of cycling safely from A to B?

Legal or illegal? IMO irrelevant. The implementation of the existing (try this try that) Road Traffic Act and mostly the lack of prosecutions and deterrents for dangerous and careless driving in close proximity to cyclists is the real problem. The relevant question is is it safer? Again IMO as someone who cycles on average 10hrs a week with headphones at 80% volume, no for the following reasons.

Using headphones will not prevent me from being hit from behind or being side-swiped by an overtaking vehicle. Neither will they increase my chances of hitting something in front of me because I always have my eyes open when cycling.

I can still hear traffic approaching from behind (so what! they are in no danger from me) I just can't hear my radio in traffic.

A bicycle weighs approx 10Kgm and moves at an average of 25km/hr whereas the average car weighs 2000kgm and moves at an average of 50km/hr.
We already know who the heavyweight, high speed hitters are and I doubt cyclists wearing headphones feature to often in the statistics.

biko

There is an inherent danger yes (same for people walking around with h/p on or loud music in cars) but not enough to make it illegal.

macnab

I would never wear head phones while cycling, but that's my choice, based on my opinion.
If headphones were banned for cyclists then would you not also have to ban deaf people from cycling? or carry out random hearing tests?

victorcarrera

biko wrote: »

There is an inherent danger yes (same for people walking around with h/p on or loud music in cars) but not enough to make it illegal.

For the most part cyclists move with the flow of traffic and cross the road at junctions, pedestrians are at a greater risk because they can cross two or more lanes of traffic legally anywhere they like. Not the same at all.

Of course blaming cyclists for the use of headphones along with a myriad of other excuses for hitting, killing or injuring another person with 2000kg in broad daylight having signed licensing and insurance proposals to always drive with due care and attention and be in charge of that vehicle at all times will absolve many people in a nation where alcohol 86% and drugs 6% are abused.

No worries Paddy your motor insurance and no claims protection will look after it unless of course you are one of the 5% of drivers that have neither.

CatFromHue

Wearing headphones while cycling is similar to the whole wearing a helmet when cycling argument. Both are way down the list of important things for cyclists.

Proper lights and proper cycling etiquette/practice would be No.1 and 2 for me.

WillyFXP

CatFromHue wrote: »

Wearing headphones while cycling is similar to the whole wearing a helmet when cycling argument. Both are way down the list of important things for cyclists.

Proper lights and proper cycling etiquette/practice would be No.1 and 2 for me.

This argument is way further down than the helmet one. Every cyclist has a head, not all cyclists have hearing.

Qualitymark

The_Sub wrote: »

Why? whats the difference between that and the radio? (assuming the wire isn't getting in the way).

tbh its as futile as making high viz, helmets & lights compulsory.

trying to get all road users to behave in a sensible manner and respect each other is whats needed to make the roads safer.

Oddly, it is quite different. A couple of years ago I was walking the dog by the river while listening to a particularly riveting This American Life podcast on the Shuffle. Got into the car and decided to keep listening to it as I drove - after all, I normally listened to the radio. But I found that the earphones in the car somehow made me quite slow in my reactions. Can't understand why, but it did.

I'd actually be for making high-viz compulsory, and of course lights already are. As for helmets - well, yes, probably they should be, I suppose, hideous things that they are. Perhaps if they were compulsory more stylish ones would come on the market.

Back in the troglodytic days before headphones, I used to cycle to and from school from Dalkey to Shankill every weekday. The cycle was pretty boring, and I dreaded the schoolday, with a class full of bullying bitches and featherheads teaching it. So I'd prop whatever book I was reading on the handlebars and cycle along happily reading.

I suppose you'd want that banned too, OP, huh? Huh?

tomasrojo

Probably best to keep hi-viz and helmets to their respective mega-threads (at least, I think we have a hi-viz one; I know we have a helmet one).

On the topic at hand, making things forbidden or compulsory to reduce excessive risk-taking with one's own health or life (as opposed to endangering others) should really be a last resort. Funnily enough, road safety is one of the few areas of public life where it tends to be closer to a first resort.

beauf

Deedsie wrote: »

Well a motorist has mirrors and an almost 360 view of the area surrounding his or her car... A cyclist doesn't...

Regardless, my position on motorists being focused 100% on safely getting from A to B is the same as for cyclists. Using mobiles etc

It's a bit of a strange argument to point at the wrong doings of motorists to justify the wrong doings of cyclists

A drivers vision is much worse than a cyclists hence why so many stats relate to drivers not seeing things as the cause of accidents. You have double standards though is your ok for drivers to have music/radio but not for a cyclist if its the same safety issue. I don't think you can hear that well on a bike though with wind noise and cycling at any speed its hard to hear behind you anyway. Unless its a relatively loud noise. A good bit of my commute is off road. So I sometime listen to music there, then once I hit the roads I pop the earphones out. That's personal choice.

Considering the authorities don't enforce a lot of existing more important laws/rules. Why introduce more laws that won't be enforced, when you've not backed it up with any stats, and as such you have no way of knowing if the law (if introduced) had made it better or worse. A set of common sense guidelines might be more useful. Like check you have lights, that work, that good batteries. Etc.

beauf

Deedsie wrote: »

Yes, I am one of them... A lot of cyclists don't bother though, it seems the 180 in front is all that matters. Listening to music while cycling definitely impedes ability to hear any other cyclists or motorists attempting to overtake etc?

To me that is just inconsiderate of other road users...

If you are relying on hearing and not vision to check around you you're doing it wrong.

Pawn

Deedsie wrote: »

Should it be illegal to cycle while wearing headphones? On the spot fine?

Not really, people use it as a hands-free set rather than to listen music.

Wishbone Ash

Deedsie wrote: »

Listening to music while cycling definitely impedes ability to hear any other cyclists or motorists attempting to overtake etc?.

On any typical cycle I'm overtaken by hundreds of motorists. I don't understand what difference it makes if I hear them or not. I'm hardly going to jump into the ditch every few seconds just because I hear a vehicle approaching. It's just a constant wall of traffic noise and the onus is on the overtaking driver to carry out the manoeuvre in a safe manner. If I'm changing my road position I'll check that it is safe to do so first.

As for cyclists overtaking - that doesn't happen too often but they are difficult to hear approaching anyway. When I'm overtaking other cyclists I don't expect them to hear me approaching.

I don't use headphones when cycling anyway.

Deedsie

Qualitymark wrote: »

Oddly, it is quite different. A couple of years ago I was walking the dog by the river while listening to a particularly riveting This American Life podcast on the Shuffle. Got into the car and decided to keep listening to it as I drove - after all, I normally listened to the radio. But I found that the earphones in the car somehow made me quite slow in my reactions. Can't understand why, but it did.

I'd actually be for making high-viz compulsory, and of course lights already are. As for helmets - well, yes, probably they should be, I suppose, hideous things that they are. Perhaps if they were compulsory more stylish ones would come on the market.

Back in the troglodytic days before headphones, I used to cycle to and from school from Dalkey to Shankill every weekday. The cycle was pretty boring, and I dreaded the schoolday, with a class full of bullying bitches and featherheads teaching it. So I'd prop whatever book I was reading on the handlebars and cycle along happily reading.

I suppose you'd want that banned too, OP, huh? Huh?

Yup, and texting, phone calls while cycling (I have witnessed it many times in Dublin)... I am an awful spoil sport when it comes to safety.

I don't want to derail my own thread but I think people not wearing helmets are crazy. Is it really down to the vanity of them not looking good they don't wear them?