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Landlords & the water charge query

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  • 23-08-2014 4:11pm
    #1
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭


    Hi , is it true that the landlord has to pay for the water charge for their tenants ??


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    #2
    bren2002
    Registered Users Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭bren2002


    hawkelady wrote: »
    Hi , is it true that the landlord has to pay for the water charge for their tenants ??

    No, its a utility, tenant pays.


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    #3
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    bren2002 wrote: »
    No, its a utility, tenant pays.

    Oh ok , there was an article in the indo.ietoday saying that ll will pay the water charge which will in turn make the landlords increase rents !!
    Thanks for the clarification.


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    #4
    The_Morrigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    hawkelady wrote: »
    Oh ok , there was an article in the indo.ietoday saying that ll will pay the water charge which will in turn make the landlords increase rents !!
    Thanks for the clarification.

    No, the article said
    People who rent their homes will be responsible for paying the charge, something that experts expect will further fuel the ongoing rise in rents.

    If people who rent do not return the forms from Irish Water, landlords will have the bill sent to them.

    If the tenants don't return the forms to pay the bills as they come in, I can see landlords will be deducting them from the deposit at the end of the year.


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    #5
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    I have specified in the lease that it is the tenant's responsibility and pointed it out to them before signing so that there is no confusion whatsoever.


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    #6
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Why on earth would Irish water see fit to forward unpaid bills to the landlord? Will they forward unpaid bills by mortgage holders to their respective banks?! Crazy country. The bill belongs to x so send it to y. Just like unpaid rates.


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    #7
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,421 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    murphaph wrote: »
    Why on earth would Irish water see fit to forward unpaid bills to the landlord? Will they forward unpaid bills by mortgage holders to their respective banks?! Crazy country. The bill belongs to x so send it to y. Just like unpaid rates.
    I don't know how much of the article is speculation, but it would be one way of confirming the tenant is resident and responsible for the bill.


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    #8
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    It will be a bit of a mess for the initial period as some tenants will refuse to return the Irish Water form, but it will sort itself out over time. The LL always has the deposit if needs be to deduct the charge.


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    #9
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    MouseTail wrote: »
    The LL always has the deposit if needs be to deduct the charge.

    Unfortunately- in what now seems like the majority of cases- the landlord does not in fact have the deposit from which to deduct the charge. I would hazard that the tenants least likely to pay the water charges- are the self-same tenants who consider their deposit to be their last month's rent..........


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    #10
    dubscottie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 854 ✭✭✭dubscottie


    hawkelady wrote: »
    Hi , is it true that the landlord has to pay for the water charge for their tenants ??

    My home, has one pipe.. My kitchen tap comes off the mains and the rest of the house gets its water from one of 2 tanks..

    (It is a house converted to bedsits and flats)

    I thought there was an exemption for tenants if the plumbing could not be metered?


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    #11
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,902 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    dubscottie wrote: »
    My home, has one pipe.. My kitchen tap comes off the mains and the rest of the house gets its water from one of 2 tanks..

    (It is a house converted to bedsits and flats)

    I thought there was an exemption for tenants if the plumbing could not be metered?

    No. Fixed charge instead


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    #12
    efbeef
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭efbeef


    MYOB wrote: »
    No. Fixed charge instead

    Same situation in my rental accommodation. Its a house divided into 2 apartments and 1 water meter. Its registered as 2 properties as per LPT so will both apartments get allowance or whats the craic?


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    #13
    garhjw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭garhjw


    Going by the radio ads, all households will receive a application pack, which needs to be completed and returned. I don't think they will be using LPT, or household charge info


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    #14
    Goodne
    Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭Goodne


    Does anyone know if a landlord can give Irish water the tenants details if they suspect the tenant won't return the form?


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    #15
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Goodne wrote: »
    Does anyone know if a landlord can give Irish water the tenants details if they suspect the tenant won't return the form?
    I suspect that would make too much sense.

    An awful lot of this silly nonsense of firing out random bills to random people would be addressed if the country had compulsory registration of abode in conjunction with a national ID card.


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    #16
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,902 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    efbeef wrote: »
    Same situation in my rental accommodation. Its a house divided into 2 apartments and 1 water meter. Its registered as 2 properties as per LPT so will both apartments get allowance or whats the craic?

    Almost certainly yes, fixed bills based on number of residents for both.


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    #17
    tango alpha
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭tango alpha


    Hi just wondering does anyone know the story with unregistered landlords and water charges. The landlord does not have the house registered and for that I pay low rent. about E100 cheaper than normal and Im happy with this. However as I have 3 kids I guess I am entitled to free allowance but not too sure can I give there details etc on the return form given the rent circumstances.

    Can anyone add to this or give there opinion on it please?

    Thanks guys and gals :)


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    #18
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,421 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    I don't think Irish Water cares what relationship you have with your landlord.

    But realise that you seem to be facilitating tax evasion.


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    #19
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,867 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Victor wrote: »
    I don't think Irish Water cares what relationship you have with your landlord.

    But realise that you seem to be facilitating tax evasion.

    What his landlord does isn't up to him to police in fairness. It's the landlord who'll be held liable if Revenue cop on to it.

    On a related point though, I can see this getting messy for licensee's. Do they pay their own bill or theirs plus the landlord that supposedly lives there.


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    #20
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,902 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    What his landlord does isn't up to him to police in fairness. It's the landlord who'll be held liable if Revenue cop on to it.

    If the landlord is resident in Ireland; if they're not the tenant is liable for not withholding.
    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    On a related point though, I can see this getting messy for licensee's. Do they pay their own bill or theirs plus the landlord that supposedly lives there.

    There's only one household in a licensee situation - its up to them to arrange a split like they do for gas/electricity/cable/whatever.


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    #21
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    I saw a suggestion that they'd meter the whole building and divide by the total number of units.

    That's going to lead to major disputes and issues. If you've an accusation that one unit is using way more water than the others and the bill is being split they'll have a big problem getting payment or may even end up in court.

    Splitting fixed charges isn't a big deal but metered utilities can't really work like that.


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    #22
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,867 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    MYOB wrote: »
    If the landlord is resident in Ireland; if they're not the tenant is liable for not withholding.

    Can't see that being enforceable myself. I for example have no idea where my landlord lives or their tax affairs but they are resident, or what about people who deal/pay through EAs for example?

    You can't expect tenants (or anyone) to be responsible for the tax compliance of someone completely unrelated/separate to themselves.


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    #23
    The_Morrigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Can't see that being enforceable myself. I for example have no idea where my landlord lives or their tax affairs but they are resident, or what about people who deal/pay through EAs for example?

    You can't expect tenants (or anyone) to be responsible for the tax compliance of someone completely unrelated/separate to themselves.

    The estate agent is a nominated domiciled agent of the landlord to receive the rent; that removes the non-resident status from the equation and the requirement for a tenant to withold that 20% tax.


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    #24
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,902 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Can't see that being enforceable myself.

    It is, though. Search through the forum here to find examples.


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    #25
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    I'd love to know how the tenant is supposed to know the country of tax residence of their landlord.

    I didn't even have their address when I rented through agencies in the past.


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    #26
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    I didn't even have their address when I rented through agencies in the past.
    Thats because you rented through an agent. The agent is resident in Ireland so where the landlord is is not relevant.


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    #27
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    MYOB wrote: »
    It is, though. Search through the forum here to find examples.

    Examples of where a tenant has been held liable for the LL's tax shortfall? I can't see any. I know that this is the law, but I look forward to the furure on the day that it is actually enforced and the revenue nail a tenant for the non compliance of their LL.


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    #28
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    murphaph wrote: »
    Why on earth would Irish water see fit to forward unpaid bills to the landlord? ... The bill belongs to x so send it to y.

    The owner of a property is liable for the water charge. Ask your local td to change the law to make the occupier liable maybe.


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    #29
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭whippet


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    The owner of a property is liable for the water charge. Ask your local td to change the law to make the occupier liable maybe.

    the occupier is liable .. the LL can just take the bill from the deposit if the tenant freeloads


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    #30
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    whippet wrote: »
    the occupier is liable .. the LL can just take the bill from the deposit if the tenant freeloads


    The problem is tenants who unilaterally decide to use their deposit as last month's rent, thus leaving the landlord with no comeback.

    Another reason for landlords to start increasing deposits.


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