Is it self defeatist to say that some men are meant to be alone??‏

ancapailldorcha

Wibbs wrote: »

Yep. Women(and men) are attracted to the scent of people that have a different immune system to them. Just one link on the subject.

From an evolutionary perspective it makes perfect sense with the exception that any offspring produced will be harder to find matching bone marrow donors for unless multiple children are produced. And there was me getting ready to go on about being an Immunologist and that something that daft couldn't possibly make sense. Dammit Wibbs!

Bafucin

Wibbs wrote: »

Yep. Women(and men) are attracted to the scent of people that have a different immune system to them. Just one link on the subject.

Well I'll be....I have genuinely learned something new.

Fair Play Wibbs!

Dial Hard

Bafucin wrote: »

Question ...why did you leave him?

Was it looks or because he was treating you badly?

Nothing whatsoever to do with looks, I grew out of him, essentially, when I realised how controlling he was. Most of what I had initially thought was him just being caring was actually extremely controlling behaviour. Major guilt trips whenever I mentioned that I might like to see my friends on a particular weekend. Tantrums/sulks the very odd time I didn't give in to him and actually went out with them. Insisting on collecting me from town on those rare occasions. I didn't go to my own debs because he spent weeks beforehand going on about how he'd go if I reaaaallllly wanted him to, but he wouldn't enjoy it because he'd be so much older than everyone else there, etc. etc.

drumswan

Wibbs wrote: »

Yep. Women(and men) are attracted to the scent of people that have a different immune system to them. Just one link on the subject.

Ah come off it Wibbs, any man can get any woman regardless the the scent of their immune system. Ive seen it happen so many times! Its just a question of projecting confidence in ones own immune systems and buying vitamin c for your prospective mates'

Daveysil15

The scent of people with a different immune system? Ahh here. I think the smell of a womans beaver would have a greater impact.

Golovkin p4p best

Pug160 wrote: »

My last two jobs have been in mixed sex environments - before that I always worked in jobs that had no women there. What I have noticed since I've been in those jobs is that some of the women will sometimes give me a kind glance or a friendly hello, or even one of those sneaky looks you catch out of the side of your eye. The sort of genuine stuff that women in bars and clubs will be less likely to do. These are women I pass, not actually work with intimately.

Guys who are decent socially and who are reasonably good looking should in theory have a certain degree of success in bars and clubs but it sometimes doesn't happen for one reason or another. There must be a reason of course, but sometimes there's no real obvious reason. I know some men talk to a large amount of women before they hit it off with someone, but even that is no guarantee.

So here's a question I'm going to pose: Do you think there really are some men out there who are reasonable/decent looking and who have reasonable social skills, and who talk to a few women each time they're out, but still can't quite get 'over the line' most of the time? Because if you think it's that easy come out a few times with me. I get noticed, but for various reasons not much ever comes of it. You guys are welcome to assess me. It's not as black and white as some of you very cynical men are making it out to be.

I can apparently get laid and have relationships whenever I want, according to some people, yet it hasn't been that simple in reality.

There are reasons for everything, you are doing something to turn women off.

Daveysil15

Golovkin p4p best wrote: »

There are reasons for everything, you are doing something to turn women off.

You don't know that though. Maybe the women he's meeting just aren't attracted to him.

Golovkin p4p best

Daveysil15 wrote: »

You don't know that though. Maybe the women he's meeting just aren't attracted to him.

If he's consistently not attracting any women or not having any success then he is doing something wrong. Assuming he'said just ordinary looking man. You can attract women through your subcommand cation, you body language, what you say, what you don't say, how you interact in a social environment, the tone of your voice, how loud you speak etc..... He is doing something wrong that can be improved upon.

Piliger

Golovkin p4p best wrote: »

If he's consistently not attracting any women or not having any success then he is doing something wrong. Assuming he'said just ordinary looking man. You can attract women through your subcommand cation, you body language, what you say, what you don't say, how you interact in a social environment, the tone of your voice, how loud you speak etc..... He is doing something wrong that can be improved upon.

I agree in principle. There is such a thing as body language as we all know and some people are brilliant at it, some people do it without even trying, and some need to learn it. I know this.
The challenge is identifying what part of it the OP is weak at and then how does he learn about it. There are no evening courses in it .... which is ridiculous if we think about it.

Bafucin

Piliger wrote: »

There are no evening courses in it .... which is ridiculous if we think about it.

I really don't think so...this thread has gotten way too tedious , garrulous and dry...which would indicate why it wouldn't work....dry and attracting wimmins don't work...half of this thread reads like some kind of modern version of a medieval treatise on it all...

Learning how to socialize in a classroom is exactly what is wrong with the world and the type of thinking which got people who need help socializing in that position in the first place.

Evening courses in socializing instead of socializing in the evenings IS ridiculous.

SharpshooterTom

Bafucin wrote: »

I really don't think so...this thread has gotten way too tedious , garrulous and dry...which would indicate why it wouldn't work....dry and attracting wimmins don't work...half of this thread reads like some kind of modern version of a medieval treatise on it all...

I apologise for the way its gone but I do appreciate the help and advice I've been given regardless, I haven't contributed to thread as much recently because I've been given all the advice that possibly could be given and its up to me do something about it now. I don't want to just keep talking about it boring everyone to death, but rather put things into practise and see where it goes now.

Give 6 months a year and things are still failing, perhaps I'll come back and whinge to you guys all over again. :cool: But I've got to try first.

Bafucin

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I apologise for the way its gone but I do appreciate the help and advice I've been given regardless, I haven't contributed to thread as much recently because I've been given all the advice that possibly could be given and its up to me do something about it now. I don't want to just keep talking about it boring everyone to death, but rather put things into practise and see where it goes now.

Give 6 months a year and things are still failing, perhaps I'll come back and whinge to you guys all over again. :cool: But I've got to try first.

Just try to be happy and ease up on yourself you sound like a good kid.

SharpshooterTom

Bafucin wrote: »

Just try to be happy and ease up on yourself you sound like a good kid.

Yeah I appreciate the good will but if I'm being honest, people have said 'nice' things about me for the past 10-15 years (notably my parents) and being 'good kid' still hasn't gotten me any friends ever, a girlfriend, or even any sexual intimacy but like I say its up to me to take up the suggestions mentioned by you guys, otherwise the whole thread would have been pointless.

Piliger

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Yeah I appreciate the good will but if I'm being honest, people have said 'nice' things about me for the past 10-15 years (notably my parents) and being 'good kid' still hasn't gotten me any friends ever, a girlfriend, or even any sexual intimacy but like I say its up to me to take up the suggestions mentioned by you guys, otherwise the whole thread would have been pointless.

The thing is there are many factors that go into all of this. You have been through counselling and other help and from reading your post #26 you seem to feel that you are almost there now, where you want to be. I can only take your word for it.

If I were you I personally would not worry too much about the current friends things. You have been in transition a lot over recent years and it is hard to develop friendships. Also as we get older it really does get harder to make friends and it takes work. You had a couple of buddies but didn't stay in touch. It is clear you tested them by not asking them to do so, and then they disappointed by not being proactive themselves. This to me is just another reappearance of your lack of confidence. Stop testing people from now on. if you want to be in touch ASK for their number and meet up from time to time. If they don't want to they will tell you one way or another.

Dating, in my view, will be unlikely to arrive in your life until you start to interact with specific groups of people in general on a regular basis. This actually goes for everyone. So in a way you have come a long long way and are now in a not uncommon predicament that MANY people face.

So what you really need to do, and what lost of people need to be reminded to do .... is to join clubs, evening courses, activity groups etc. There is nothing like regular contact with people who share an interest to spark social connections and friendships. Through these kinds of regular social interactions then opportunities will arrive where the next step can take place.

List all the things that interest you. List the things that you look forward to and things you have a passion for. When you have that list, find where those kinds of people congregate. Then pick a few and dive in. It sounds easy. I know it's not. But it has to b done. And I don't know if it helps to say thins to you ... but what you will find out over the next 30 years is that although you have suffered more than most, socially, there is a surprisingly substantial proportion of people out there who have not too dissimilar struggles to make friends and develop relationships on a par with where you have now arrived. Does that sentence make sense ? I can assure you it is true.

In my view there two main factors that are important for you to make progress toward your goals. The first is to follow a path through regular socialising as I set out above, and so start putting yourself in a position where relationships can be built. The second, and I think this is most most important, is try to stay calm and patient and positive. I cannot emphasise that enough. Frustration and impatience are so self destructive.

Piliger

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I apologise for the way its gone but I do appreciate the help and advice I've been given regardless, I haven't contributed to thread as much recently because I've been given all the advice that possibly could be given and its up to me do something about it now. I don't want to just keep talking about it boring everyone to death, but rather put things into practise and see where it goes now.

Give 6 months a year and things are still failing, perhaps I'll come back and whinge to you guys all over again. :cool: But I've got to try first.

Why apologise ? That's BS. You're as entitled to post here as anyone. If someone finds it boring then there are a thousand other threads they can go and find entertainment.

Piliger

Bafucin wrote: »

I really don't think so...this thread has gotten way too tedious , garrulous and dry...which would indicate why it wouldn't work....dry and attracting wimmins don't work...half of this thread reads like some kind of modern version of a medieval treatise on it all...

Learning how to socialize in a classroom is exactly what is wrong with the world and the type of thinking which got people who need help socializing in that position in the first place.

Evening courses in socializing instead of socializing in the evenings IS ridiculous.

Well I suppose your socialising skills are clearly demonstrated right there. I am both suitable admonished and deeply impressed.

Bafucin

Piliger wrote: »

Well I suppose your socialising skills are clearly demonstrated right there. I am both suitable admonished and deeply impressed.

I hope you don't mind me saying this but you're a little pompous to be honest. I'd say you're a hard man to impress.

I think we all need to lighten up a bit is what I'm saying.

Piliger

Bafucin wrote: »

I hope you don't mind me saying this but you're a little pompous to be honest. I'd say you're a hard man to impress.

I think we all need to lighten up a bit is what I'm saying.

Well that really was helpful. Yes, let's lighten up and dance the problem away.

Bafucin

Piliger wrote: »

Well that really was helpful. Yes, let's lighten up and dance the problem away.

THAT'S EXACTLY what the OP should do. Lighten up and dance the problem away. Women like that actually.

I've changed my mind Piliger...;) I like you...you're smart...

SharpshooterTom

Bafucin wrote: »

THAT'S EXACTLY what the OP should do. Lighten up and dance the problem away. Women like that actually.

I've changed my mind Piliger...;) I like you...you're smart...

If only it was that easy! I like your carefree attitude Bafucin I wish whatever worked for you worked for me. Its seems all my problems are all so complicated and trying to come with solutions to deal with my whole sh!ttty social life is like trying to go through a manual right now. Honestly its tough and there are no easy solutions to my problems, I'd move mountains to try to end it all I really would, no doubt I get dispirited repeatedly, but I've just got to keep trying. If I die friendless and sexless at 80, I go down fighting, I don't want to be continually feeling sorry myself anymore.

Wibbs

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

If only it was that easy! I like your carefree attitude Bafucin I wish whatever worked for you worked for me.

Well it's easily argued that things like social ease come "easily" to others because they've learned this over time and largely subconsciously. So it's easy for such a person to say "ah just do it". They can "do it" because they've learned how to do it. For someone who missed out on that it's a much harder task. You're well on your way though TF. IMHO anyway.

Mike747

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Yeah I appreciate the good will but if I'm being honest, people have said 'nice' things about me for the past 10-15 years (notably my parents) and being 'good kid' still hasn't gotten me any friends ever, a girlfriend, or even any sexual intimacy but like I say its up to me to take up the suggestions mentioned by you guys, otherwise the whole thread would have been pointless.

Ha! bet your parents told you all sorts of crap. Most do.

Unfortunately when it comes to sex the 'nice good guys' don't do very well.

Dial Hard

Mike747 wrote: »

Unfortunately when it comes to sex the 'nice good guys' don't do very well.

Here we go again...

Being "nice" has nothing to do with it.

macplato

Mike747 wrote: »

Ha! bet your parents told you all sorts of crap. Most do.

Unfortunately when it comes to sex the 'nice good guys' don't do very well.

Actually, genuinely nice, good guys do very well. It's the boring, needy, desperately nice men who do badly. If you are nice in order to get a woman, she will smell a rat and walk away. If you are nice, because this is who you are, and because you value kindness, women will naturally gravitate towards you.

Mike747

Dial Hard wrote: »

Here we go again...

Being "nice" has nothing to do with it.

Let me give you an example. I used to know a lad who was the classic nice guy. Outgoing, fun, always putting others first. Women loved him, as a friend. I never once saw him get anywhere with a woman.

So yes being too nice is a problem. The nice guy won't make a move on a girl for fear of being creepy (what the hell does 'creepy' even mean anyway). Or he won't approach a girl because he doesn't want to be another 'sleazy guy' trying to chat her up.

Two things I've noticed in men who do well with women: a complete lack of fear of rejection and a low opinion of women.

ancapailldorcha

Mike747 wrote: »

So yes being too nice is a problem. The nice guy won't make a move on a girl for fear of being creepy (what the hell does 'creepy' even mean anyway). Or he won't approach a girl because he doesn't want to be another 'sleazy guy' trying to chat her up.

Being too nice isn't a problem, it's being timid. It doesn't matter what your personality is if you don't give people a chance to see it. I know "nice guys" with bags of confidence who've been very successful.

Mike747 wrote: »

Two things I've noticed in men who do well with women: a complete lack of fear of rejection and a low opinion of women.

The first point is a necessity but I don't see why one needs a low opinion of women in order to achieve relationships or one night stands. If a guy is willing to employ deceit and has no fear of rejection whatsoever then it makes sense that he'll have more one night stands but probably won't do well in a relationship. Those qualities aren't necessary by any means to get into a relationship or even to get someone to like you. I was chatting to an American feminist one night debating various issues and when she left my mates asked me why I didn't "go for it" as it apparently was quite obvious that she was into me.
You certainly need confidence and "no fear" but I don't see why one needs to be a misogynist on top of that.

macplato

Mike747 wrote: »

Let me give you an example. I used to know a lad who was the classic nice guy. Outgoing, fun, always putting others first. Women loved him, as a friend. I never once saw him get anywhere with a woman.

So yes being too nice is a problem. The nice guy won't make a move on a girl for fear of being creepy (what the hell does 'creepy' even mean anyway). Or he won't approach a girl because he doesn't want to be another 'sleazy guy' trying to chat her up.

Here you go, that's the problem.

Two things I've noticed in men who do well with women: a complete lack of fear of rejection and a low opinion of women.

And now you're making a very dangerous assumptions. Can men who lack fear of rejection and have a low opinion of women be successful with women? Sure. The only type of women they will attract though, are desperate, insecure ones.

Some level of fear is necessary, to make a genuine connection with an emotionally healthy woman. Only an emotionally numb man will feel no fear, and that same quality will make him unavailable for meaningful connection (therefore, he will only attract women who like him, are unable to, or feel unworthy of connection). Same with men who have a low opinion of women - they may be able to attract women, but only those who, for one reason or another, yearn to be disrespected aka women with very low self-esteem.

With this black and white mindset, you are missing the whole reality of happy and healthy attracting and relating, where lovely, kind men, with healthy self esteem, attract women with the same qualities.

Mike747

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Being too nice isn't a problem, it's being timid. It doesn't matter what your personality is if you don't give people a chance to see it. I know "nice guys" with bags of confidence who've been very successful.



The first point is a necessity but I don't see why one needs a low opinion of women in order to achieve relationships or one night stands. If a guy is willing to employ deceit and has no fear of rejection whatsoever then it makes sense that he'll have more one night stands but probably won't do well in a relationship. Those qualities aren't necessary by any means to get into a relationship or even to get someone to like you. I was chatting to an American feminist one night debating various issues and when she left my mates asked me why I didn't "go for it" as it apparently was quite obvious that she was into me.
You certainly need confidence and "no fear" but I don't see why one needs to be a misogynist on top of that.

Being nice and timid tend to go hand in hand. I'm not saying you have to be a terrible person to do well with women. You should be a decent guy. But I know so many good guys who struggle with women. Conversely I know some pretty unpleasant men who never seem to be alone. So ideally you want to be somewhere in the middle.

All I can talk about are my experiences, same as everyone else. When I adopted a slightly assholish personality I became far more successful with women.

As for the American feminist, you dodged one hell of a bullet!

Mike747

macplato wrote: »

Here you go, that's the problem.



And now you're making a very dangerous assumptions. Can men who lack fear of rejection and have a low opinion of women be successful with women? Sure. The only type of women they will attract though, are desperate, insecure ones.

Some level of fear is necessary, to make a genuine connection with an emotionally healthy woman. Only an emotionally numb man will feel no fear, and that same quality will make him unavailable for meaningful connection (therefore, he will only attract women who like him, are unable to, or feel unworthy of connection). Same with men who have a low opinion of women - they may be able to attract women, but only those who, for one reason or another, yearn to be disrespected aka women with very low self-esteem.

With this black and white mindset, you are missing the whole reality of happy and healthy attracting and relating, where lovely, kind men, with healthy self esteem, attract women with the same qualities.

Are you female?

ancapailldorcha

Mike747 wrote: »

Being nice and timid tend to go hand in hand. I'm not saying you have to be a terrible person to do well with women. You should be a decent guy. But I know so many good guys who struggle with women. Conversely I know some pretty unpleasant men who never seem to be alone. So ideally you want to be somewhere in the middle.

All I can talk about are my experiences, same as everyone else. When I adopted a slightly assholish personality I became far more successful with women.

As for the American feminist, you dodged one hell of a bullet!

That's a generalisation, but I wouldn't say that it's without merit. I would only call myself a "nice guy" as I've had the "How are you still single?" so many times that it's almost become a personal cliché at this point. I'm trying to be more outgoing but I do have trouble "sealing the deal" either by trying to arrange dates, asking for numbers, etc... I know lovely chaps who have no problem doing these things unless it's someone they've connected with which then adds a short delay but they always action.
Arseholes tend to do better as they've no fear about how they'll be perceived so they'll try and sometimes succeed in being funny and then progress from there. I see where you're coming from but a lot of the time, "nice guys" can do well but because they're shy or afraid of coming across as creeps then they hold back which is a shame for both parties involved.