Is it self defeatist to say that some men are meant to be alone??‏

chinacup

paddy1990 wrote: »

Strongly disagree with the bulk of your post.

Women care about looks just as much as men generally. Women are just as shallow as men and to believe differently is just ridiculous. Look around and you'll see A LOT of men dating down. I was in town earlier and the amount of in shape guys with chubby girls was amazing.

Age is a huge factor for men than it is for women. Try picking up a 20 year old girl if you're 35. Meanwhile set up a dating profile with an average 35 year old womans pictures online and see how many 20 year old guys she can get (hint - alot)

Heres another one, set up a dating profile online of a girl in a WHEELCHAIR and see how many guys are still willing to date her and then do the same for a man in a wheelchair.

I have done all of these experiments. Social media has blown up the egos of your average woman. It's hard not to think you are hot stuff when you're getting 50+ likes per photo and having guys chase you every day. All attractive women have to do these days is take out their smartphones for a nice ego/validation boost.

The OP wouldn't be in his position if he looked like a male model. As it is now, he has little chance. He is too far behind. I'm not saying it's completely hopeless but he needs to get real and then start putting the work in, fairly sharpish.

Your dating website "experiment" might be wildly inaccurate due to the fact that there are a huge amount more guys than women on the sites. Check your research skillz m8.

audi12

op seems to be feeling sorry for himself instead of taking any action

audi12

Bafucin wrote: »

They have it different.

what does that mean everyone knows they have it easier in terms of meeting guys and all that goes with it guys have to do all the hard work they just stand around and wait for the guy to make the move.

ongarboy

Mike747 wrote: »

Every ladies man I know has a low opinion of women and they're are also pretty cynical in general. I guess that's the downside of being good with women.

I've been thinking a lot about this thread and I believe there are four reasons why a man would have absolutely no luck with women.

1. He's absolute bottom of the barrel, beyond redemption ugly. Unfortunately these men do exist and anyone saying looks don't matter is fooling no one. Thankfully this is very rare. Most 'ugly' people can scrub up pretty well.

2. He has major hang ups about women and sex.

3. He has crippling self esteem issues.

4. He's the 'nice guy'.

More than likely it'll will 2-3 or a combination of. All of these can be overcome.

Ironically, based on a lot of what you've posted, you seem to suffer badly from what I've highlighted in bold from your post above. You must obviously therefore be speaking from experience on how it has adversely affected your success rate with women! Interesting that you say it can be overcome when it clearly hasn't for you yet....!

diveout

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Oh I don't normally, I suppose its because I don't have a lot of experience with the opposite sex generally and then I hear/read so much about women having it easier, ladies can get a shag anytime they want and all this stuff, and all I'm doing here is just asking others whether or not these 'stereotypes' are true (because I don't really know). Having said that I don't tend to categorise men and women so broadly as I know its unhelpful to think in those terms. Although it is worth noting statistically women are actually less likely to still be virgins at 40 than men are (1.2% to 0.3% according to a US government study on sexual behaviour), but I take your point regardless I don't draw huge conclusions based on somebody's sex.



.

Forget the statistics and the stereotypes. They are a distraction and they don't matter.

Do you want a shag or do you want to connect and hold onto someone?

I am no expert at this, believe me, but what I do know is that to be involved with someone at any level beyond "please pass the salt" demands a high tolerance for uncertainty. You absolutely have to have that. The more your tolerance for it, the greater you can deal with connecting or disconnecting with others.

My tolerance for it is not great so I don't get involved with people. But that's fine and I am willing to pay in solitude for that, it doesn't bother me that much.

If you can't be friends or socialise at a superficial level with people, a deeper one will be perhaps extremely challenging, which is why I suggested drama classes because they can help you negotiate through alot of this without the risks of alienation.

At some point you need to stop overthinking things and start doing something.

Mike747

ongarboy wrote: »

Ironically, based on a lot of what you've posted, you seem to suffer badly from what I've highlighted in bold from your post above. You must obviously therefore be speaking from experience on how it has adversely affected your success rate with women! Interesting that you say it can be overcome when it clearly hasn't for you yet....!

And yet I'm in a two year relationship with a woman so I must have got over some of my issues.

SharpshooterTom

Bafucin wrote:

OP if no one else says this to you I want to say it. Well done. You ARE getting there. Pat yourself on the back. Give yourself credit.

I think I'm getting better, in that my social skills are better and I've curbed my anxiety somewhat. Its been painful journey as I say I've had to put myself in more unfamiliar/uncomfortable situations. But I still don't have many (or any) friends and I worry there is a glass ceiling effect with regards to that, maybe I can't make any or nobody wants to be my friend long term.

All I can do is do things differently to how I did things in the past, i.e. actively putting myself out and stop avoiding people. The advice in this thread has been great I guess as Wibbs said its a numbers game, not even from a dating perspective but just in socialising terms, the more I put myself out there and join clubs and societies as suggested the more likely my social life (if ever) will improve. At least I'm hoping that's the case.

diveout wrote:

At some point you need to stop overthinking things and start doing something.

I don't whinge or start threads every week about this, I appreciate the discussion we've had on this thread and its been a good discussion, yes ultimately I will be starting to take a more aggressive approach in dealing with this as I say in terms of activities and societies suggested, its time I did that and I plan on joining quite a few sports clubs by the end of the year.

I probably overthink things because I've had too much time to think normally, being on my own permanently does these things to you and your right its not good and I need to be actively moving forward though, I'm not disagreeing with what you've said, its been a good discussion and I appreciate it.

msdoc

Haven't read all the posts but just want to say well done on starting the thread and contributing.
I was painfully shy as a child. And even up to college/start of career. I'm not the most confident person in the world still but at some stage it was something that I worked on cos I just got sick of always feeling that way. I remember someone making the point that it's quite a selfish way of thinking - as if everyone is thinking about you. When in reality people are mostly self consumed.
I've read Susan Jeffers 'Feel the Fear and do it anyway' and a lot of it resonated with me. Maybe give it a go. You're working on your eduction but like you say, your social skills also need work.
As an aside, a family member, who had never had a relationship with a girl, met and got married within 3 months last year. There's a lid for every pot.

catallus

We all die alone anyways. Or we live to see the ones we love die.

audi12

catallus wrote: »

We all die alone anyways. Or we live to see the ones we love die.

This is an awful depressing thread

eric prydz

Hey op,first of all fair play to you for having the courage to start this thread and been so open about your feelings to everyone here.
Im much the same age as yourself and I have never been in a relationship either but im not too worried because im young yet and I have to try and like myself before I enter a relationship.
Like you the last few years have been very tough on me and ive been battleing depression this last few years aswell a lot of which I brought on myself regarding money problems and family issues but hopefully il sort out all my problems soon and get on with my life.
Look I know that it does be a right pain in the hole when your single and everyone else seems to be In a relationship but in my situation anyway its better that no woman has to be subjected to my mood swings.
Because of the line of work im in ive meet plenty of people every day and have built up good friendships that way
Regarding your thread title id say yes it is self defeatist to say that some men are meant be alone try and think positively and enjoy life and youl never know what might happen along the way
Best of luck op

audi12

OP has an awful attitude some people are meant to be alone loser talk .. I wouldent be suprised if he wasnt successful in his career either with such an attitude

Wibbs

audi12 wrote: »

OP has an awful attitude some people are meant to be alone loser talk .. I wouldent be suprised if he wasnt successful in his career either with such an attitude

What? Good god man try reading the thread and the OP's posts.

Galwayguy35

audi12 wrote: »

OP has an awful attitude some people are meant to be alone loser talk .. I wouldent be suprised if he wasnt successful in his career either with such an attitude

The OP pretty much bared his soul on an internet forum full of strangers, that took courage IMO.

ancapailldorcha

audi12 wrote: »

OP has an awful attitude some people are meant to be alone loser talk .. I wouldent be suprised if he wasnt successful in his career either with such an attitude

He's been seeking advice on how to make his situation better which would constitute the right attitude IMO. No need to have a dig at his professional life either.

audi12

audi12 wrote: »

OP has an awful attitude some people are meant to be alone loser talk .. I wouldent be suprised if he wasnt successful in his career either with such an attitude

I can't say for the OP but I'm in a similar situation myself. Despite that, my professional life is going very well, in fact, on Friday I was told the company would be worse off without me.

So even if I am speaking "loser talk", it doesn't mean I'm crap at my job.

SharpshooterTom

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The OP pretty much bared his soul on an internet forum full of strangers, that took courage IMO.

Not really. I suppose its because I've spent so much time beating myself up over the years over what a freak I am, what a 'loser' I am how the whole world seemingly hated me and wanted nothing to do with me that I couldn't really care anymore. I've considered suicide many times over this in the past so its as if I've come into this discussion (or any discussion) with nothing to lose.

I'm not expecting 'pity' infact I'm not really wanting that, I want solutions rather people feeling sorry me and I think I've had a good honest and frank discussion which was exactly what I was looking for.

paddy1990

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Not really. I suppose its because I've spent so much time beating myself up over the years over what a freak I am, what a 'loser' I am how the whole world seemingly hated me and wanted nothing to do with me that I couldn't really care anymore. I've considered suicide many times over this in the past so its as if I've come into this discussion with nothing to lose.

I'm not expecting 'pity' infact I'm not really wanting that, I want solutions rather people feeling sorry me and I think I've had a good honest and frank discussion which was exactly what I was looking for.

You're asking men with thousands of posts on internet forums for advice on this issue which isn't a good idea. Many of the guys giving you advice here are not in much better positions than yourself, if that.

You've generally received awful advice in the thread imo.

If you want solutions you are going to have to have clearly defined goals. What exactly is it you want? Specifically? Is it realistically achievable? Once that is known for sure, then you can get a delineated path. Then once you have a clearly defined path, you can then take action, one step at a time.

This whole thing is holistic though. Health, wealth and relationships are intrinsically linked.

Wibbs

paddy1990 wrote: »

You're asking men with thousands of posts on internet forums for advice on this issue which isn't a good idea. Many of the guys giving you advice here are not in much better positions than yourself, if that.

Says the man who claims/apparently sets up bogus online dating accounts to prove how "very good looking" he is.

You've generally received awful advice in the thread imo.

Your "advice" consisted of basically, "do nothing, it's too late, you'll be in the same position next year, if you're not gorgeous like me it's useless anyway unless you go for fat butt ugly women more at your own level like my "friends" do". The fact your level of self awareness appears to miss this hardly makes you a good bet at all for advice and even the most cursory of glances at your posts on the matter would back this up.

Aidric

paddy1990 wrote: »

If you want solutions you are going to have to have clearly defined goals. What exactly is it you want? Specifically? Is it realistically achievable? Once that is known for sure, then you can get a delineated path. Then once you have a clearly defined path, you can then take action, one step at a time.

This whole thing is holistic though. Health, wealth and relationships are intrinsically linked.

Is that you Deepak Chopra?

SharpshooterTom

paddy1990 wrote: »

Is it realistically achievable?

I have absolutely no idea, that's why I am asking other people. Infact in case you didn't notice thats kinda of the reason I wrote the thread in the first place, the clue is in the title!

paddy1990

I haven't given the OP any advice really, just tried to provide a pragmatic outlook. A utilitarian approach can be construed as pessimistic/negative and as a result, useless, while a wishy washy hopeful approach makes everyone feel good and is thus seen as a better way.

Well I prefer pragmatism and if the OP wants to improve, so should he. I haven't really given him any advice because I'm not sure he will take it, although I think he is in a great position because he is open/honest/humble about where he is, and thats a great start.

paleoperson

paddy1990 wrote: »

I haven't given the OP any advice really, just tried to provide a pragmatic outlook. A utilitarian approach can be construed as pessimistic/negative and as a result, useless, while a wishy washy hopeful approach makes everyone feel good and is thus seen as a better way.

Rubbish, there are many more pragmatic outlooks all over the place that are positive and make "everyone feel good". Meanwhile there are many "wishy washy" (you really need to work on your writing skill) suggestions that are extremely negative.

paddy1990 wrote: »

Well I prefer pragmatism and if the OP wants to improve, so should he. I haven't really given him any advice because I'm not sure he will take it, although I think he is in a great position because he is open/honest/humble about where he is, and thats a great start.

You say you've been "pragmatic", then say you really haven't given him any advice. Then you end with a hopelessly sentimental and abstract cliche yourself which you were just criticising in the last paragraph.

You don't know anything about this and everything you've said is a waste of time for anyone to read. I mean, it's just a ludicrous bunch of contradictions. That's the real truth of it.

paddy1990

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea, that's why I am asking other people. Infact in case you didn't notice thats kinda of the reason I wrote the thread in the first place, the clue is in the title!

Well what are you looking for exactly? What are your standards and what does the end result look like? If you can't see it being realistically achievable and have to ask people online, then I doubt it is realistically achievable. I'm sure you can see some type of realistically achievable scenario though. If you don't have an inkling of whether what you are thinking is realistically achievable then you'll need to give it a real go and see what results. You'll need to be taking the right approach and at the same time be as brutally honest with yourself as possible. But i get the feeling you have an inkling that it's not achievable at all.

Human nature = a positive outlook is better than a negative outlook, even if the negative outlook is more pragmatic, so you were always only ever going to get one response here, no matter what is was you were asking was realistically achievable.

eric prydz

paddy1990 wrote: »

Well what are you looking for exactly? What are your standards and what does the end result look like? If you can't see it being realistically achievable and have to ask people online, then I doubt it is realistically achievable. I'm sure you can see some type of realistically achievable scenario though. If you don't have an inkling of whether what you are thinking is realistically achievable then you'll need to give it a real go and see what results. You'll need to be taking the right approach and at the same time be as brutally honest with yourself as possible. But i get the feeling you have an inkling that it's not achievable at all.

Human nature = a positive outlook is better than a negative outlook, even if the negative outlook is more pragmatic, so you were always only ever going to get one response here, no matter what is was you were asking was realistically achievable.

I think that you need to follow your own advice there Paddy and lose the negativity from your posts

paddy1990

eric prydz wrote: »

I think that you need to follow your own advice there Paddy and lose the negativity from your posts

Youre mistaking pragmatism for negativity.

A common mistake.

eric prydz

paddy1990 wrote: »

Youre mistaking pragmatism for negativity.

A common mistake.

They both mean the same to me,neither of which the op needs imo

Mike747

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea, that's why I am asking other people. Infact in case you didn't notice thats kinda of the reason I wrote the thread in the first place, the clue is in the title!

A perfectly achievable goal would be to develop the confidence to go out and strike up conversations with girls, have a few one night stands and eventually get a girlfriend.

I would qualify this by saying it's a long term process, maybe two years minimum. The idea is to take baby steps, talk to a stranger, get a phone number, make out with a girl, bring home a girl etc.

Providing you learn deal with rejection, and you would face a lot of rejection, especially starting off, you could achieve this goal.

paddy1990

Mike747 wrote: »

A perfectly achievable goal would be to develop the confidence to go out and strike up conversations with girls, have a few one night stands and eventually get a girlfriend.

I would qualify this by saying it's a long term process, maybe two years minimum. The idea is to take baby steps, talk to a stranger, get a phone number, make out with a girl, bring home a girl etc.

Providing you learn deal with rejection, and you would face a lot of rejection, especially starting off, you could achieve this goal.

The bolded part is completely ridiculous and smacks of PUA rhetoric.

How do you know he can get one night stands and eventually get a girlfriend when on all known form he hasn't ever done this and has suicidal thoughts and a lot of social anxiety. And you don't even know what he looks like either.

Outrageous. This is the hopeful BS I'm talking about.

paddy1990

The truth is, if he doesn't know then nobody else knows.

The only thing he can do is formulate a plan and then go out and do it and then see what happens and see where he is.

Telling an introverted guys with social anxiety and suicidal thoughts to go out and get rejected umpteen times is ridiculous as well.