Is it self defeatist to say that some men are meant to be alone??‏

ancapailldorcha

Wibbs wrote: »

Yep. Women(and men) are attracted to the scent of people that have a different immune system to them. Just one link on the subject.

From an evolutionary perspective it makes perfect sense with the exception that any offspring produced will be harder to find matching bone marrow donors for unless multiple children are produced. And there was me getting ready to go on about being an Immunologist and that something that daft couldn't possibly make sense. Dammit Wibbs!

Bafucin

Wibbs wrote: »

Yep. Women(and men) are attracted to the scent of people that have a different immune system to them. Just one link on the subject.

Well I'll be....I have genuinely learned something new.

Fair Play Wibbs!

Dial Hard

Bafucin wrote: »

Question ...why did you leave him?

Was it looks or because he was treating you badly?

Nothing whatsoever to do with looks, I grew out of him, essentially, when I realised how controlling he was. Most of what I had initially thought was him just being caring was actually extremely controlling behaviour. Major guilt trips whenever I mentioned that I might like to see my friends on a particular weekend. Tantrums/sulks the very odd time I didn't give in to him and actually went out with them. Insisting on collecting me from town on those rare occasions. I didn't go to my own debs because he spent weeks beforehand going on about how he'd go if I reaaaallllly wanted him to, but he wouldn't enjoy it because he'd be so much older than everyone else there, etc. etc.

drumswan

Wibbs wrote: »

Yep. Women(and men) are attracted to the scent of people that have a different immune system to them. Just one link on the subject.

Ah come off it Wibbs, any man can get any woman regardless the the scent of their immune system. Ive seen it happen so many times! Its just a question of projecting confidence in ones own immune systems and buying vitamin c for your prospective mates'

Daveysil15

The scent of people with a different immune system? Ahh here. I think the smell of a womans beaver would have a greater impact.

Golovkin p4p best

Pug160 wrote: »

My last two jobs have been in mixed sex environments - before that I always worked in jobs that had no women there. What I have noticed since I've been in those jobs is that some of the women will sometimes give me a kind glance or a friendly hello, or even one of those sneaky looks you catch out of the side of your eye. The sort of genuine stuff that women in bars and clubs will be less likely to do. These are women I pass, not actually work with intimately.

Guys who are decent socially and who are reasonably good looking should in theory have a certain degree of success in bars and clubs but it sometimes doesn't happen for one reason or another. There must be a reason of course, but sometimes there's no real obvious reason. I know some men talk to a large amount of women before they hit it off with someone, but even that is no guarantee.

So here's a question I'm going to pose: Do you think there really are some men out there who are reasonable/decent looking and who have reasonable social skills, and who talk to a few women each time they're out, but still can't quite get 'over the line' most of the time? Because if you think it's that easy come out a few times with me. I get noticed, but for various reasons not much ever comes of it. You guys are welcome to assess me. It's not as black and white as some of you very cynical men are making it out to be.

I can apparently get laid and have relationships whenever I want, according to some people, yet it hasn't been that simple in reality.

There are reasons for everything, you are doing something to turn women off.

Daveysil15

Golovkin p4p best wrote: »

There are reasons for everything, you are doing something to turn women off.

You don't know that though. Maybe the women he's meeting just aren't attracted to him.

Golovkin p4p best

Daveysil15 wrote: »

You don't know that though. Maybe the women he's meeting just aren't attracted to him.

If he's consistently not attracting any women or not having any success then he is doing something wrong. Assuming he'said just ordinary looking man. You can attract women through your subcommand cation, you body language, what you say, what you don't say, how you interact in a social environment, the tone of your voice, how loud you speak etc..... He is doing something wrong that can be improved upon.

Piliger

Golovkin p4p best wrote: »

If he's consistently not attracting any women or not having any success then he is doing something wrong. Assuming he'said just ordinary looking man. You can attract women through your subcommand cation, you body language, what you say, what you don't say, how you interact in a social environment, the tone of your voice, how loud you speak etc..... He is doing something wrong that can be improved upon.

I agree in principle. There is such a thing as body language as we all know and some people are brilliant at it, some people do it without even trying, and some need to learn it. I know this.
The challenge is identifying what part of it the OP is weak at and then how does he learn about it. There are no evening courses in it .... which is ridiculous if we think about it.

Bafucin

Piliger wrote: »

There are no evening courses in it .... which is ridiculous if we think about it.

I really don't think so...this thread has gotten way too tedious , garrulous and dry...which would indicate why it wouldn't work....dry and attracting wimmins don't work...half of this thread reads like some kind of modern version of a medieval treatise on it all...

Learning how to socialize in a classroom is exactly what is wrong with the world and the type of thinking which got people who need help socializing in that position in the first place.

Evening courses in socializing instead of socializing in the evenings IS ridiculous.

SharpshooterTom

Bafucin wrote: »

I really don't think so...this thread has gotten way too tedious , garrulous and dry...which would indicate why it wouldn't work....dry and attracting wimmins don't work...half of this thread reads like some kind of modern version of a medieval treatise on it all...

I apologise for the way its gone but I do appreciate the help and advice I've been given regardless, I haven't contributed to thread as much recently because I've been given all the advice that possibly could be given and its up to me do something about it now. I don't want to just keep talking about it boring everyone to death, but rather put things into practise and see where it goes now.

Give 6 months a year and things are still failing, perhaps I'll come back and whinge to you guys all over again. :cool: But I've got to try first.

Bafucin

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I apologise for the way its gone but I do appreciate the help and advice I've been given regardless, I haven't contributed to thread as much recently because I've been given all the advice that possibly could be given and its up to me do something about it now. I don't want to just keep talking about it boring everyone to death, but rather put things into practise and see where it goes now.

Give 6 months a year and things are still failing, perhaps I'll come back and whinge to you guys all over again. :cool: But I've got to try first.

Just try to be happy and ease up on yourself you sound like a good kid.

SharpshooterTom

Bafucin wrote: »

Just try to be happy and ease up on yourself you sound like a good kid.

Yeah I appreciate the good will but if I'm being honest, people have said 'nice' things about me for the past 10-15 years (notably my parents) and being 'good kid' still hasn't gotten me any friends ever, a girlfriend, or even any sexual intimacy but like I say its up to me to take up the suggestions mentioned by you guys, otherwise the whole thread would have been pointless.

Piliger

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Yeah I appreciate the good will but if I'm being honest, people have said 'nice' things about me for the past 10-15 years (notably my parents) and being 'good kid' still hasn't gotten me any friends ever, a girlfriend, or even any sexual intimacy but like I say its up to me to take up the suggestions mentioned by you guys, otherwise the whole thread would have been pointless.

The thing is there are many factors that go into all of this. You have been through counselling and other help and from reading your post #26 you seem to feel that you are almost there now, where you want to be. I can only take your word for it.

If I were you I personally would not worry too much about the current friends things. You have been in transition a lot over recent years and it is hard to develop friendships. Also as we get older it really does get harder to make friends and it takes work. You had a couple of buddies but didn't stay in touch. It is clear you tested them by not asking them to do so, and then they disappointed by not being proactive themselves. This to me is just another reappearance of your lack of confidence. Stop testing people from now on. if you want to be in touch ASK for their number and meet up from time to time. If they don't want to they will tell you one way or another.

Dating, in my view, will be unlikely to arrive in your life until you start to interact with specific groups of people in general on a regular basis. This actually goes for everyone. So in a way you have come a long long way and are now in a not uncommon predicament that MANY people face.

So what you really need to do, and what lost of people need to be reminded to do .... is to join clubs, evening courses, activity groups etc. There is nothing like regular contact with people who share an interest to spark social connections and friendships. Through these kinds of regular social interactions then opportunities will arrive where the next step can take place.

List all the things that interest you. List the things that you look forward to and things you have a passion for. When you have that list, find where those kinds of people congregate. Then pick a few and dive in. It sounds easy. I know it's not. But it has to b done. And I don't know if it helps to say thins to you ... but what you will find out over the next 30 years is that although you have suffered more than most, socially, there is a surprisingly substantial proportion of people out there who have not too dissimilar struggles to make friends and develop relationships on a par with where you have now arrived. Does that sentence make sense ? I can assure you it is true.

In my view there two main factors that are important for you to make progress toward your goals. The first is to follow a path through regular socialising as I set out above, and so start putting yourself in a position where relationships can be built. The second, and I think this is most most important, is try to stay calm and patient and positive. I cannot emphasise that enough. Frustration and impatience are so self destructive.

Piliger

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I apologise for the way its gone but I do appreciate the help and advice I've been given regardless, I haven't contributed to thread as much recently because I've been given all the advice that possibly could be given and its up to me do something about it now. I don't want to just keep talking about it boring everyone to death, but rather put things into practise and see where it goes now.

Give 6 months a year and things are still failing, perhaps I'll come back and whinge to you guys all over again. :cool: But I've got to try first.

Why apologise ? That's BS. You're as entitled to post here as anyone. If someone finds it boring then there are a thousand other threads they can go and find entertainment.

Piliger

Bafucin wrote: »

I really don't think so...this thread has gotten way too tedious , garrulous and dry...which would indicate why it wouldn't work....dry and attracting wimmins don't work...half of this thread reads like some kind of modern version of a medieval treatise on it all...

Learning how to socialize in a classroom is exactly what is wrong with the world and the type of thinking which got people who need help socializing in that position in the first place.

Evening courses in socializing instead of socializing in the evenings IS ridiculous.

Well I suppose your socialising skills are clearly demonstrated right there. I am both suitable admonished and deeply impressed.

Bafucin

Piliger wrote: »

Well I suppose your socialising skills are clearly demonstrated right there. I am both suitable admonished and deeply impressed.

I hope you don't mind me saying this but you're a little pompous to be honest. I'd say you're a hard man to impress.

I think we all need to lighten up a bit is what I'm saying.

Piliger

Bafucin wrote: »

I hope you don't mind me saying this but you're a little pompous to be honest. I'd say you're a hard man to impress.

I think we all need to lighten up a bit is what I'm saying.

Well that really was helpful. Yes, let's lighten up and dance the problem away.

Bafucin

Piliger wrote: »

Well that really was helpful. Yes, let's lighten up and dance the problem away.

THAT'S EXACTLY what the OP should do. Lighten up and dance the problem away. Women like that actually.

I've changed my mind Piliger...;) I like you...you're smart...

SharpshooterTom

Bafucin wrote: »

THAT'S EXACTLY what the OP should do. Lighten up and dance the problem away. Women like that actually.

I've changed my mind Piliger...;) I like you...you're smart...

If only it was that easy! I like your carefree attitude Bafucin I wish whatever worked for you worked for me. Its seems all my problems are all so complicated and trying to come with solutions to deal with my whole sh!ttty social life is like trying to go through a manual right now. Honestly its tough and there are no easy solutions to my problems, I'd move mountains to try to end it all I really would, no doubt I get dispirited repeatedly, but I've just got to keep trying. If I die friendless and sexless at 80, I go down fighting, I don't want to be continually feeling sorry myself anymore.

Wibbs

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

If only it was that easy! I like your carefree attitude Bafucin I wish whatever worked for you worked for me.

Well it's easily argued that things like social ease come "easily" to others because they've learned this over time and largely subconsciously. So it's easy for such a person to say "ah just do it". They can "do it" because they've learned how to do it. For someone who missed out on that it's a much harder task. You're well on your way though TF. IMHO anyway.

Mike747

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Yeah I appreciate the good will but if I'm being honest, people have said 'nice' things about me for the past 10-15 years (notably my parents) and being 'good kid' still hasn't gotten me any friends ever, a girlfriend, or even any sexual intimacy but like I say its up to me to take up the suggestions mentioned by you guys, otherwise the whole thread would have been pointless.

Ha! bet your parents told you all sorts of crap. Most do.

Unfortunately when it comes to sex the 'nice good guys' don't do very well.

Dial Hard

Mike747 wrote: »

Unfortunately when it comes to sex the 'nice good guys' don't do very well.

Here we go again...

Being "nice" has nothing to do with it.

macplato

Mike747 wrote: »

Ha! bet your parents told you all sorts of crap. Most do.

Unfortunately when it comes to sex the 'nice good guys' don't do very well.

Actually, genuinely nice, good guys do very well. It's the boring, needy, desperately nice men who do badly. If you are nice in order to get a woman, she will smell a rat and walk away. If you are nice, because this is who you are, and because you value kindness, women will naturally gravitate towards you.

Mike747

Dial Hard wrote: »

Here we go again...

Being "nice" has nothing to do with it.

Let me give you an example. I used to know a lad who was the classic nice guy. Outgoing, fun, always putting others first. Women loved him, as a friend. I never once saw him get anywhere with a woman.

So yes being too nice is a problem. The nice guy won't make a move on a girl for fear of being creepy (what the hell does 'creepy' even mean anyway). Or he won't approach a girl because he doesn't want to be another 'sleazy guy' trying to chat her up.

Two things I've noticed in men who do well with women: a complete lack of fear of rejection and a low opinion of women.

ancapailldorcha

Mike747 wrote: »

So yes being too nice is a problem. The nice guy won't make a move on a girl for fear of being creepy (what the hell does 'creepy' even mean anyway). Or he won't approach a girl because he doesn't want to be another 'sleazy guy' trying to chat her up.

Being too nice isn't a problem, it's being timid. It doesn't matter what your personality is if you don't give people a chance to see it. I know "nice guys" with bags of confidence who've been very successful.

Mike747 wrote: »

Two things I've noticed in men who do well with women: a complete lack of fear of rejection and a low opinion of women.

The first point is a necessity but I don't see why one needs a low opinion of women in order to achieve relationships or one night stands. If a guy is willing to employ deceit and has no fear of rejection whatsoever then it makes sense that he'll have more one night stands but probably won't do well in a relationship. Those qualities aren't necessary by any means to get into a relationship or even to get someone to like you. I was chatting to an American feminist one night debating various issues and when she left my mates asked me why I didn't "go for it" as it apparently was quite obvious that she was into me.
You certainly need confidence and "no fear" but I don't see why one needs to be a misogynist on top of that.

macplato

Mike747 wrote: »

Let me give you an example. I used to know a lad who was the classic nice guy. Outgoing, fun, always putting others first. Women loved him, as a friend. I never once saw him get anywhere with a woman.

So yes being too nice is a problem. The nice guy won't make a move on a girl for fear of being creepy (what the hell does 'creepy' even mean anyway). Or he won't approach a girl because he doesn't want to be another 'sleazy guy' trying to chat her up.

Here you go, that's the problem.

Two things I've noticed in men who do well with women: a complete lack of fear of rejection and a low opinion of women.

And now you're making a very dangerous assumptions. Can men who lack fear of rejection and have a low opinion of women be successful with women? Sure. The only type of women they will attract though, are desperate, insecure ones.

Some level of fear is necessary, to make a genuine connection with an emotionally healthy woman. Only an emotionally numb man will feel no fear, and that same quality will make him unavailable for meaningful connection (therefore, he will only attract women who like him, are unable to, or feel unworthy of connection). Same with men who have a low opinion of women - they may be able to attract women, but only those who, for one reason or another, yearn to be disrespected aka women with very low self-esteem.

With this black and white mindset, you are missing the whole reality of happy and healthy attracting and relating, where lovely, kind men, with healthy self esteem, attract women with the same qualities.

Mike747

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Being too nice isn't a problem, it's being timid. It doesn't matter what your personality is if you don't give people a chance to see it. I know "nice guys" with bags of confidence who've been very successful.



The first point is a necessity but I don't see why one needs a low opinion of women in order to achieve relationships or one night stands. If a guy is willing to employ deceit and has no fear of rejection whatsoever then it makes sense that he'll have more one night stands but probably won't do well in a relationship. Those qualities aren't necessary by any means to get into a relationship or even to get someone to like you. I was chatting to an American feminist one night debating various issues and when she left my mates asked me why I didn't "go for it" as it apparently was quite obvious that she was into me.
You certainly need confidence and "no fear" but I don't see why one needs to be a misogynist on top of that.

Being nice and timid tend to go hand in hand. I'm not saying you have to be a terrible person to do well with women. You should be a decent guy. But I know so many good guys who struggle with women. Conversely I know some pretty unpleasant men who never seem to be alone. So ideally you want to be somewhere in the middle.

All I can talk about are my experiences, same as everyone else. When I adopted a slightly assholish personality I became far more successful with women.

As for the American feminist, you dodged one hell of a bullet!

Mike747

macplato wrote: »

Here you go, that's the problem.



And now you're making a very dangerous assumptions. Can men who lack fear of rejection and have a low opinion of women be successful with women? Sure. The only type of women they will attract though, are desperate, insecure ones.

Some level of fear is necessary, to make a genuine connection with an emotionally healthy woman. Only an emotionally numb man will feel no fear, and that same quality will make him unavailable for meaningful connection (therefore, he will only attract women who like him, are unable to, or feel unworthy of connection). Same with men who have a low opinion of women - they may be able to attract women, but only those who, for one reason or another, yearn to be disrespected aka women with very low self-esteem.

With this black and white mindset, you are missing the whole reality of happy and healthy attracting and relating, where lovely, kind men, with healthy self esteem, attract women with the same qualities.

Are you female?

ancapailldorcha

Mike747 wrote: »

Being nice and timid tend to go hand in hand. I'm not saying you have to be a terrible person to do well with women. You should be a decent guy. But I know so many good guys who struggle with women. Conversely I know some pretty unpleasant men who never seem to be alone. So ideally you want to be somewhere in the middle.

All I can talk about are my experiences, same as everyone else. When I adopted a slightly assholish personality I became far more successful with women.

As for the American feminist, you dodged one hell of a bullet!

That's a generalisation, but I wouldn't say that it's without merit. I would only call myself a "nice guy" as I've had the "How are you still single?" so many times that it's almost become a personal cliché at this point. I'm trying to be more outgoing but I do have trouble "sealing the deal" either by trying to arrange dates, asking for numbers, etc... I know lovely chaps who have no problem doing these things unless it's someone they've connected with which then adds a short delay but they always action.
Arseholes tend to do better as they've no fear about how they'll be perceived so they'll try and sometimes succeed in being funny and then progress from there. I see where you're coming from but a lot of the time, "nice guys" can do well but because they're shy or afraid of coming across as creeps then they hold back which is a shame for both parties involved.

macplato

Mike747 wrote: »

Are you female?

I am.

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

macplato

Mike747 wrote: »

Being nice and timid tend to go hand in hand. I'm not saying you have to be a terrible person to do well with women. You should be a decent guy. But I know so many good guys who struggle with women. Conversely I know some pretty unpleasant men who never seem to be alone. So ideally you want to be somewhere in the middle.

All I can talk about are my experiences, same as everyone else. When I adopted a slightly assholish personality I became far more successful with women.

As for the American feminist, you dodged one hell of a bullet!

Sometimes, but not usually, not in my experience. And honestly, being a bit timid can be very attractive too, to some women. I get approached a lot by those super confident, fearless men you've described, but I have zero interest in them, because I know, that on a deeper level, they will not be able to connect with me. I tend to go for slightly shy, sensitive men - this is what I am attracted to, and I know plenty of women who are like me.

It irks me that some men keep repeating: women like this, don't like that, you have to be this or that for a woman to find you attractive. Seriously, whoever you are, there are people of the opposite sex that will find you attractive, as long as you value yourself.

Mike747

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That's a generalisation, but I wouldn't say that it's without merit. I would only call myself a "nice guy" as I've had the "How are you still single?" so many times that it's almost become a personal cliché at this point. I'm trying to be more outgoing but I do have trouble "sealing the deal" either by trying to arrange dates, asking for numbers, etc... I know lovely chaps who have no problem doing these things unless it's someone they've connected with which then adds a short delay but they always action.
Arseholes tend to do better as they've no fear about how they'll be perceived so they'll try and sometimes succeed in being funny and then progress from there. I see where you're coming from but a lot of the time, "nice guys" can do well but because they're shy or afraid of coming across as creeps then they hold back which is a shame for both parties involved.

Yes its a generalization but as with stereotypes there's an element of truth in it. You're right the nice guy will hold back, he'll be afraid to get sexual so he'll slip into the friend zone. My take on it is, you should be perceived as a decent guy but never the nice guy.

Anyway I'm rambling. As I said I can only talk about my own experiences. I became pretty good with women but I had to change almost every facet of my personality to do so! One of the reasons I find this subject fascinating.

Mike747

macplato wrote: »

I am.

For a ltr personality matters and and yeah here the nice guy can do better than the asshole. Problem is he'll struggle to get there in the first place.

macplato

Mike747 wrote: »

For a ltr personality matters and and yeah here the nice guy can do better than the asshole. Problem is he'll struggle to get there in the first place.

I agree with the first sentence. But why do you think he'll struggle to get there, though? In my experience that's not the case at all.

Mike747

macplato wrote: »

I agree with the first sentence. But why do you think he'll struggle to get there, though? In my experience that's not the case at all.

Too shy. Too worried about being perceived as sleazy or creepy. Won't read the signals so he'll miss his chance etc.

As you say we're talking in generalizations here. But I think its reasonable to say that the 'asshole' 'player' type (which usually means he's confident, aggressive and fairly selfish) will do better with women.

Colser

Mike747 wrote: »

Yes its a generalization but as with stereotypes there's an element of truth in it. You're right the nice guy will hold back, he'll be afraid to get sexual so he'll slip into the friend zone. My take on it is, you should be perceived as a decent guy but never the nice guy.

Anyway I'm rambling. As I said I can only talk about my own experiences. I became pretty good with women but I had to change almost every facet of my personality to do so! One of the reasons I find this subject fascinating.

Serious question...Is that actually possible to do and sustain for the rest of your life? I genuinely wouldnt have thought so...surely the mask will drop at some stage...

Potatoeman

macplato wrote: »

Some level of fear is necessary, to make a genuine connection with an emotionally healthy woman. Only an emotionally numb man will feel no fear, and that same quality will make him unavailable for meaningful connection (therefore, he will only attract women who like him, are unable to, or feel unworthy of connection). Same with men who have a low opinion of women - they may be able to attract women, but only those who, for one reason or another, yearn to be disrespected aka women with very low self-esteem.

Being nervous is fine but if a guy is not chatty hes doomed. How is fear a good thing? You must do the approaching if you are into shy guys.

macplato

Mike747 wrote: »

Too shy. Too worried about being perceived as sleazy or creepy. Won't read the signals so he'll miss his chance etc.

As you say we're talking in generalizations here. But I think its reasonable to say that the 'asshole' 'player' type (which usually means he's confident, aggressive and fairly selfish) will do better with women.

Yeah, you are talking about the extremes here, and looking from this angle, I'd say you are most likely correct. It's interesting, we really do see reality through the lenses of our own personal experiences. Almost all men I know, who I'd describe as "nice" are confident, adventurous and happy - they don't struggle when comes to women. I have never come across a man, who wouldn't approach a woman for fear of being sleazy or creepy - I guess, someone who would have that kind of a fear would have to have massive self-esteem issues.

Again, I'd somewhat agree with the second paragraph of your post, if we're talking about one-nighters. Although, hmm, there are plenty of women out there who have no experience of being treated with kindness and respect, and so they do, indeed, go for men who will mistreat them. The thing is - you seem to be only focusing on the extremes - it's like you believe that a man can be either so shy that he will struggle with women, or he'll be super confident, to the point of being inconsiderate. Whichever way you flip it, you end up getting something negative.

But look around, there are plenty of happy, socially successful people out there - some of them are physically attractive, some aren't, some are wealthy or financially comfortable, others aren't. They are neither very shy, nor very confident. They value and want closeness, intimacy, connection, perhaps family - and that's what they get - because they have enough self-worth to reach for it, without questioning their right to having it.

Piliger

Mike747 wrote: »

Let me give you an example. I used to know a lad who was the classic nice guy. Outgoing, fun, always putting others first. Women loved him, as a friend. I never once saw him get anywhere with a woman.

So yes being too nice is a problem. The nice guy won't make a move on a girl for fear of being creepy (what the hell does 'creepy' even mean anyway). Or he won't approach a girl because he doesn't want to be another 'sleazy guy' trying to chat her up.

Two things I've noticed in men who do well with women: a complete lack of fear of rejection and a low opinion of women.

A lack of fear equals someone who doesn't give a crap. Show me a man who doesn't care and I'll show you a man who is a complete dick or a sociopath.

The truth is nice guys get almost all the women.

Potatoeman

Piliger wrote: »

A lack of fear equals someone who doesn't give a crap. Show me a man who doesn't care and I'll show you a man who is a complete dick or a sociopath.

The truth is nice guys get almost all the women.

If you are going to approach someone you need to be able to handle rejection. Which is probably a bigger factor. I have one friend that would happily approach anyone at anytime and chat. He just deals with rejection very well.

Mike747

Colser wrote: »

Serious question...Is that actually possible to do and sustain for the rest of your life? I genuinely wouldnt have thought so...surely the mask will drop at some stage...

Sure it is. You can retrain yourself. A big part of it is developing new communication habits. Also improving your body language, eye contact, posture etc.

If you know a successful person (in any area of life) you should pay close attention to how they carry themselves and see if you can emulate.

macplato

Potatoeman wrote: »

Being nervous is fine but if a guy is not chatty hes doomed. How is fear a good thing? You must do the approaching if you are into shy guys.

Yeah, two aspects to your question. Some sensitive men, when they really want something (or someone), they get a bit nervous and freeze. The men I'm attracted to, have the ability to unfreeze quick enough, and go for it anyway. So, even though I have no problem approaching people, and indeed do it often enough, I wouldn't say I do it a lot. I know I'm going to commit a seeming oxymoron now - I'm into a bit shy but confident men, and not surprisingly I'm just like that myself.

Now, about being chatty No, it's not a requirement for me. I admit, I tend to carry the conversation with newly met people, but I enjoy doing it. All I need from a man is for him to have the capacity to keep up with me intellectually, have an active, open mind, willingness to share his own thoughts and inner experiences, and be able to gently tell me to shut up when I talk too much

diveout

Potatoeman wrote: »

If you are going to approach someone you need to be able to handle rejection. Which is probably a bigger factor. I have one friend that would happily approach anyone at anytime and chat. He just deals with rejection very well.

Diversification of risks helps.

Potatoeman

macplato wrote: »

Yeah, two aspects to your question. Some sensitive men, when they really want something (or someone), they get a bit nervous and freeze. The men I'm attracted to, have the ability to unfreeze quick enough, and go for it anyway. So, even though I have no problem approaching people, and indeed do it often enough, I wouldn't say I do it a lot. I know I'm going to commit a seeming oxymoron now - I'm into a bit shy but confident men, and not surprisingly I'm just like that myself.

Now, about being chatty No, it's not a requirement for me. I admit, I tend to carry the conversation with newly met people, but I enjoy doing it. All I need from a man is for him to have the capacity to keep up with me intellectually, have an active, open mind, willingness to share his own thoughts and inner experiences, and be able to gently tell me to shut up when I talk too much

There is a problem being too shy. If you dont engage with someone how are you suppose to get to know them? I was out last week and ran into a group of ladies and got chatting. It was one of their birthdays and I tried to chat to her, she was very quite. Its very hard to chat to someone that smiles and gives one word answers so I gravitated back to chatting to her friends. Her friends tried to get her to join in more but she just seemed too quiet.

macplato

Potatoeman wrote: »

There is a problem being too shy. If you dont engage with someone how are you suppose to get to know them? I was out last week and ran into a group of ladies and got chatting. It was one of their birthdays and I tried to chat to her, she was very quite. Its very hard to chat to someone that smiles and gives one word answers so I gravitated back to chatting to her friends. Her friends tried to get her to join in more but she just seemed too quiet.

Yeah, being too shy is a problem, of course. No objections here.

Were we at the same birthday party, I wonder? o.O (The birthday girl was indeed very shy, and everyone tried to encourage her to talk to someone, who was interested in her. Unlikely, but you never know!)

Piliger

macplato wrote: »

Yeah, being too shy is a problem, of course. No objections here.

Were we at the same birthday party, I wonder? o.O (The birthday girl was indeed very shy, and everyone tried to encourage her to talk to someone, who was interested in her. Unlikely, but you never know!)

The big difference is between being shy .... and being unable to interact. LOTS of people are shy but have the ability to push through that in order to interact. That is a very attractive thing for many men and women. But not being able to get to the point of interaction is a killer

macplato

Piliger wrote: »

The big difference is between being shy .... and being unable to interact. LOTS of people are shy but have the ability to push through that in order to interact. That is a very attractive thing for many men and women. But not being able to get to the point of interaction is a killer

I agree. Some people are naturally sensitive and a bit shy. Overcoming this natural shyness requires courage and strong self-esteem, and these qualities are incredibly attractive. I'm with you on that.

I've met so many incredible people, who have awesome (truly awe - some) inner worlds, but for whatever reason, they are locked in themselves, and unwilling to share all they have to offer with others. It's heartbreaking. I had to give up on the last man I was seeing for that very reason - he had a beautiful inner world, but was unable to share it.

ongarboy

Mike747 wrote: »

Anyway I'm rambling. As I said I can only talk about my own experiences. I became pretty good with women but I had to change almost every facet of my personality to do so! One of the reasons I find this subject fascinating.

I actually find this quite telling. Are you happy with your new personality? Sure, we can all improve or modify traits, habits or behaviours but if I thought I had to change who I ultimately was as a person just to please/attract a partner, I'm not sure I could . It would be putting on an act that would eventually crumble. My partner of 10 years has had to accept me for who I am, warts and all and I think that humility and honesty is paramount to the success to our relationship so far. It has been and is by no means perfect and doesn't stop me trying ot improve myself constantly but that is part and parcel of life and learning.

Just on other points you mentioned earlier. Nice guys always putting others first. You see, I don't equate that with being nice, I equate that with being a doormat. Doormats are turnoffs who never attract women apart from domineering control freaks. Equating one with the other as so many do on these threads as the reason they don't get women is so misguided in my opinion. Macplato perfectly demonstrated why nice guys (the proper definition of nice) do succeed and not the "nice" guys that many single guys with chips on their shoulders interpret as the definition.

Finally, (apologies, I'm not deliberately trying to single out your posts but some of your statements really jump out for me! ) you alluded to OP's post earlier whereby his parents endorsed him as a nice person yet you said that was typical of parents feeding kids deluded crap (I'm possibly paraphrasing here!). When you think of all the adults out there who owe a lot of their current screwed up issues and lives to growing up with dysfunctional, cruel and loveless or non existent parents, I would not underestimate the power of having a parent instill positivity in their child. Yes, it may not have been enough initially for OP but I bet it's standing to him now having his parents onside as he successfully attempts to turn his life around.