AI SFC SF Replay Kerry v Mayo 30/08 5pm Mod Warning Post #1 #562

SeanJ09

DDC1990 wrote: »

Absolute disgrace.

Whats the point in having a rule book.

Sometimes common sense prevails over the rule book. It was a yellow card all day.

Padkir

DDC1990 wrote: »

Absolute disgrace.

Whats the point in having a rule book.

As a Mayo man, I must say I'm shocked. While the ref can have a bit of leeway in his interpretation on the day; surely the lads watching it back can have no such leeway. By the book, it was a red card. What reason did they give for rescinding it?

Delighted by the way; plus he played 40 mins less than everyone else so he'll be fresh too! :pac:

Da Shins Kelly

The incident was a whole lotta nothing. Not all that surprised he's been cleared.

Westernyelp

Keegan's availability a great boost for Mayo

wirelessdude01

Be interesting to see on what grounds was he cleared. As stated by the book it was a red. Delighted for him but must go have a look for the reaction in the Kerry forum.

Kalyke

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Be interesting to see on what grounds was he cleared. As stated by the book it was a red. Delighted for him but must go have a look for the reaction in the Kerry forum.

I fairness to them they have not said a word. Doubt if they care.

DDC1990

Kalyke wrote: »

I fairness to them they have not said a word. Doubt if they care.

In fairness we do care, but we tend to do our whinging after the match (lasting months sometimes years "Seamus Darby")

This isn't a triumph for common sense or anything of the sort. To the letter of the law, he committed a Red Card offence, and as such should serve the suspension. He lost his cool and kicked out.

100's of players over the years have lost their cool, and lashed out and received red cards and taken their suspension gracefully. This is poor sportsmanship on Mayo's behalf, with a frivolous appeal, and the Gaa have fallen for it. It doesn't matter about harming another player or the force of impact, its the loss of discipline that leads to lashing out that deserves a Red Card. If that Red Card doesn't stand, then how can any Red Card stand to be fair.

Clothesline a player - My hand slipped up trying to tackle
Kick a player - My leg slipped
Hit the referees notebook - Was slapping the wasp

We'll move on and get over it, but come Saturday evening, if Keegan has a big impact on the game, then I'll be back to do more bitching :P

Utopia Parkway

SeanJ09 wrote: »

Sometimes common sense prevails over the rule book. It was a yellow card all day.

Not according to the rules.

"Kicking or attempting to kick with minimal force".

It certainly fell under that description.

I would think the stink created over the venue has been a smokescreen for Keegan's red card and this is the GAA throwing them a bone.

Tom Joad

On a personal level I'm happy for Lee Keegan that he can play in the replay but this is a bad decision for the GAA. They have essentially compromised their own rulebook and made referees jobs even more difficult.

Will be interesting to hear the rationale for the decision.

keane2097

It's one of those things. I'm not surprised it was rescinded but anyone welcoming the decision will have to look hard at themselves the next time they complain about lack of "consistency" from refs.

Decisions like this make an already difficult job that bit harder for refs. As mentioned elsewhere, I'm all for referee discretion, but you can't have that AND consistency so take your pick.

Stoner

It's a joke, but I have to say I'm happy about it, as in I wouldn't want him to have missed the game for a harmless act, but it was what it was.

Going forward we might as well appeal everything now.

Fr Tod Umptious

keane2097 wrote: »

It's one of those things. I'm not surprised it was rescinded but anyone welcoming the decision will have to look hard at themselves the next time they complain about lack of "consistency" from refs.

Decisions like this make an already difficult job that bit harder for refs. As mentioned elsewhere, I'm all for referee discretion, but you can't have that AND consistency so take your pick.

But why are you not surprised ?

It was ad clear as day a red card offence.

I'd love to know the grounds on which it was overturned.

I'm stunned.

Fr Tod Umptious

Stoner wrote: »

It's a joke, but I have to say I'm happy about it, as in I wouldn't want him to have missed the game for a harmless act, but it was what it was.

Going forward we might as well appeal everything now.

But guys are going to have to miss games for harmless acts if those acts are blatantly red card offences.

Otherwise you will have no discipline in the game.

Utopia Parkway

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But why are you not surprised ?

It was ad clear as day a red card offence.

I'd love to know the grounds on which it was overturned.

I'm stunned.

Wouldn't say I was stunned now. We've seen this before from the GAA. Sure it's nearly a running joke at this stage.

The rulebook and disciplinary procedures are a moveable feast.

keane2097

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But why are you not surprised ?

It was ad clear as day a red card offence.

I'd love to know the grounds on which it was overturned.

I'm stunned.

Yeah same as Utopia Parkway, the same as the Connolly thing in '11. The GAA perceive an injustice done in the name of "letter of the law" and step into correct it.

I'm all for that by the way, but as I said it ought to be part of an empowerment of refs in general. Only done in isolated cases like this it looks pretty bad.

Connolly incident was way worse, never thought this could stick after that.

DDC1990

Its a conspiracy against Kerry I've decided.

The 3 biggest names cleared of Red Cards on the "Striking or Attempting to Strike" rule over the last few years?

Donnacha O'Connor (v Kerry 2008) - Cleared to play in replay against... Kerry

Diarmuid Connolly (v Donegal 2011) - Cleared to play AIF against... Kerry

Lee Keegan (v Kerry 2014) - Cleared to play in replay against... you guessed it ... Kerry.

EDIT: Just in case people think i'm serious... i'm not. (But it is kind of a big coincidence).

Stoner

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But guys are going to have to miss games for harmless acts if those acts are blatantly red card offences.

Otherwise you will have no discipline in the game.

I agree but I'm still happy for the player. I know it is a contradiction, but I hate it when good players miss games and I'd like to see him play.

I know rules are rules but that's just the way it sits with me, if he'd burst someone or hurt someone I'd feel differently. I'm not in charge or to blame so I'm free to be happy about it as a spectator.

All that said my happyness extends to one game, big picture its a joke and is another embarrassing element for the GAA thus year.

Pandiani

Keegan cleared on a technicality, refs report had it as "kicking with minimal force” .Mayo proved with video evidence that the kick had not connected so should have been reported for “attempting to kick with minimal force” which actually carries the same penalty, i.e red card but as ref's report was incorrect he is cleared to play.

keane2097

Pandiani wrote: »

Keegan cleared on a technicality, refs report had it as "kicking with minimal force” .Mayo proved with video evidence that the kick had not connected so should have been reported for “attempting to kick with minimal force” which actually carries the same penalty, i.e red card but as ref's report was incorrect he is cleared to play.

Ugh, the worst possible reason for clearing him.

seligehgit

Pandiani wrote: »

Keegan cleared on a technicality, refs report had it as "kicking with minimal force” .Mayo proved with video evidence that the kick had not connected so should have been reported for “attempting to kick with minimal force” which actually carries the same penalty, i.e red card but as ref's report was incorrect he is cleared to play.

That's quite an error by the referee,maybe he genuinely did believe there was contact???Right decision made by the appeals committee...even if it was a technicality.

Stoner

Pandiani wrote: »

Keegan cleared on a technicality, refs report had it as "kicking with minimal force” .Mayo proved with video evidence that the kick had not connected so should have been reported for “attempting to kick with minimal force” which actually carries the same penalty, i.e red card but as ref's report was incorrect he is cleared to play.

That's mad stuff. It lets the ref off a bit and saves the rule. So essentially the ref missed the kick missing so the miss was not picked up during the game by the ref so technically they can't retrospectively punish him for it using video evidence.

Da Shins Kelly

Sounds like the referee didn't even properly see what happened.

seligehgit

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Sounds like the referee didn't even properly see what happened.

That would be my reading of it.

Utopia Parkway

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Sounds like the referee didn't even properly see what happened.

More like he used the incorrect wording. Even though a kick and an attempted kick are both red card offences.

keane2097

I'd have very little doubt that the technicality was manufactured and Mayo CB were told what grounds to complain on.

roshje

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Sounds like the referee didn't even properly see what happened.

Pity the ref didnt have action replay:D

copacetic

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Sounds like the referee didn't even properly see what happened.

He didn't have to see properly since either connecting or not connecting were both red cards. He saw the kicking action and knew it was a red. Getting off because of semantics in the report is poor imo.

Da Shins Kelly

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

More like he used the incorrect wording. Even though a kick and an attempted kick are both red card offences.

Or maybe a meal was made of the incident and as such he jumped to conclusions without having properly seen what happened.

Utopia Parkway

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Or maybe a meal was made of the incident and as such he jumped to conclusions without having properly seen what happened.

If he didn't see it I seriously doubt he would have gotten a straight red card out. Coldrick is not that bad a ref that he would give a red card for something he did not see.

keane2097

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Or maybe a meal was made of the incident and as such he jumped to conclusions without having properly seen what happened.

He was looking directly at it. You can go to 1hr 15mins on RTE player if you'd like to look at it for yourself.

Fr Tod Umptious

Pandiani wrote: »

Keegan cleared on a technicality, refs report had it as "kicking with minimal force” .Mayo proved with video evidence that the kick had not connected so should have been reported for “attempting to kick with minimal force” which actually carries the same penalty, i.e red card but as ref's report was incorrect he is cleared to play.

Sounds strangely like the Nicolas Murphy incident from the 2006 Munster final, where Murphy got off on a red and was back for the replay.

I think the story there was he punched but the ref put it down as an attempted punch.
Frank and Co went to the appeal with evidence that he actually made contact and got away with it.

Do you have a source ?
Cos I think you might just be making that one up.

Stoner

keane2097 wrote: »

He was looking directly at it. You can go to 1hr 15mins on RTE player if you'd like to look at it for yourself.

Correct. He just wrote the wrong thing down. Or listened to Walsh and overruled his own eyes.

DDC1990

keane2097 wrote: »

He was looking directly at it. You can go to 1hr 15mins on RTE player if you'd like to look at it for yourself.

WTF. Its clear from the second replay that Keegans leg does make contact with Buckley!

Not his foot, but higher up just below the knee.

Coldrick being shatfted there.

feargale

Pandiani wrote: »

Do not park at Ivans, a lot of cars were clamped there during a rugby match in April 4 months after shop closed. Same crowd will try and make a quick buck on Saturday.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=89722204

Thanks for that. I didn't know. It seems all wrong, but that's for another thread.

Fr Tod Umptious

Pandiani wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/mayo-s-lee-keegan-cleared-to-line-out-in-semi-final-replay-with-kerry-1.1911292?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Ok, my apologies.

That's F&%&ing bizarre.

I though that was only stuff Cork came up with.

keane2097

DDC1990 wrote: »

WTF. Its clear from the second replay that Keegans leg does make contact with Buckley!

Not his foot, but higher up just below the knee.

Coldrick being shatfted there.

Not really, I would think that this is a case of heads being put together with the outcome they wanted in mind and working backwards to figure out how to make it happen.

Again, the principle I don't really mind, but this sort of three card trick by the CCC is a really odious way to go about it.

Pandiani

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Do you have a source ?
Cos I think you might just be making that one up.

Making it up??


http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/mayo-s-lee-keegan-cleared-to-line-out-in-semi-final-replay-with-kerry-1.1911292?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

ColeTrain

DDC1990 wrote: »

In fairness we do care, but we tend to do our whinging after the match (lasting months sometimes years "Seamus Darby")

This isn't a triumph for common sense or anything of the sort. To the letter of the law, he committed a Red Card offence, and as such should serve the suspension. He lost his cool and kicked out.

100's of players over the years have lost their cool, and lashed out and received red cards and taken their suspension gracefully. This is poor sportsmanship on Mayo's behalf, with a frivolous appeal, and the Gaa have fallen for it. It doesn't matter about harming another player or the force of impact, its the loss of discipline that leads to lashing out that deserves a Red Card. If that Red Card doesn't stand, then how can any Red Card stand to be fair.

Clothesline a player - My hand slipped up trying to tackle
Kick a player - My leg slipped
Hit the referees notebook - Was slapping the wasp

We'll move on and get over it, but come Saturday evening, if Keegan has a big impact on the game, then I'll be back to do more bitching :P

Poor sportmanship from Mayo? Cop on. It costs nothing to ask and Mayo would have been very stupid not to appeal. The fact that the appeal was successful has proven they made the right decision.

As for comparing the incident to clotheslines and Paul Galvin, talk about hyperbole! Keegan's sending off was a nothing incident, he flung out a leg in frustration that he was being held by two Kerry players after the whistle was blown. I'm glad for Leeroy and that common sense has prevailed for a change.

Clare in Exile

Disgraceful decision, I have to say that I'm disappointed with it. Speaking as a neutral who was at the game on Sunday, I feel this whole episode had made a mockery of the GAA's disciplinary system.

What Lee Keegan did warranted, by the GAA's own rule book, a red card. It's there in black and white. To hide behind semantics in order to invalidate the referee's report is petty and pathetic.

Yet again the rule book has been torn up. The question we have to ask now is why bother with a disciplinary code when it can be ridden over roughshod ar the drop of a hat. Cynics will suggest that Mayo were "advised" how to word their appeal (as a previous poster intimated).

I feel particularly sorry for David Coldrick who made the correct call but has now been used as a scapegoat for this issue.

A sad day for sporting justice, but a great day for cutehoorism and the nod and a wink culture...

keane2097

"I hear you're a cynic now father" :pac:

threeball

Stupid sending off but an even more stupid decision to reverse it. Technically the ref was right so his decision should have been let stand once the damage was done. Can't see this being overturned if there wasn't the issue with the venue of the replay. An olive branch for turning them down on the objection.

MfMan

Clare in Exile wrote: »

Disgraceful decision, I have to say that I'm disappointed with it. Speaking as a neutral who was at the game on Sunday, I feel this whole episode had made a mockery of the GAA's disciplinary system.

What Lee Keegan did warranted, by the GAA's own rule book, a red card. It's there in black and white. To hide behind semantics in order to invalidate the referee's report is petty and pathetic.

Yet again the rule book has been torn up. The question we have to ask now is why bother with a disciplinary code when it can be ridden over roughshod ar the drop of a hat. Cynics will suggest that Mayo were "advised" how to word their appeal (as a previous poster intimated).

I feel particularly sorry for David Coldrick who made the correct call but has now been used as a scapegoat for this issue.

A sad day for sporting justice, but a great day for cutehoorism and the nod and a wink culture...

No, a good day for common sense. It wasn't even a kick, if one of your players on the field gave such a pathetic imitation of a kick, you'd give him the curly finger immediately. Everytime a player goes to tackle another these days it could nearly be misconstrued as a striking offence.

Games should be refereed within their context; this game wasn't ugly or malicious and the sending off, no matter what way you dress it up, was wrong. Justice, belatedly, has been served.

Blackjack

keane2097 wrote: »

I'd have very little doubt that the technicality was manufactured and Mayo CB were told what grounds to complain on.

Ah now that's just full on tin foil hat stuff to be coming out with.

hurling_lad

MfMan wrote: »

No, a good day for common sense. It wasn't even a kick, if one of your players on the field gave such a pathetic imitation of a kick, you'd give him the curly finger immediately. Everytime a player goes to tackle another these days it could nearly be misconstrued as a striking offence.

Games should be refereed within their context; this game wasn't ugly or malicious and the sending off, no matter what way you dress it up, was wrong. Justice, belatedly, has been served.

Hear hear.
Just make sure that referees have plenty of common sense (maybe they could do a common sense exam or something) and dump the entire rule book.

ColeTrain

hurling_lad wrote: »

Hear hear.
Just make sure that referees have plenty of common sense (maybe they could do a common sense exam or something) and dump the entire rule book.

There's a balance somewhere without dumping rule books.

hurling_lad

ColeTrain wrote: »

There's a balance somewhere without dumping rule books.

I don't agree. You can either play by rules that are clearly worded and consistently applied or else you leave everything up to the ref's discretion.

feargale

Padkir wrote: »

Yeah, a few are leaving from Ballindine and then meeting me in Galwa.y and we're driving in 1 car from there.

So was planning on telling them to leave around 12.15 or 12.30 or so. Even if they hit traffic in Claregalway, we should be leaving Galway before 2; even if it takes 2 hours to get down and parked up there should still be loads of time!

Letter in Irish Times today : " Claregalway should be fun around lunchtime next Saturday." I imagine alot of people will have the same idea i.e. avoid Claregalway and come into Galway from the Headford side. I wonder if that might create its own problems? Would Tuam - Athenry - Loughrea - Gort be easier for some? Very bad roads, admittedly, especially Loughrea - Gort. Also, the train from Galway to Limerick will leave you about 45 minutes' brisk walk from the grounds.

Xenophile

feargale wrote: »

Letter in Irish Times today : " Claregalway should be fun around lunchtime next Saturday." I imagine alot of people will have the same idea i.e. avoid Claregalway and come into Galway from the Headford side. I wonder if that might create its own problems? Would Tuam - Athenry - Loughrea - Gort be easier for some? Very bad roads, admittedly, especially Loughrea - Gort. Also, the train from Galway to Limerick will leave you about 45 minutes' brisk walk from the grounds.

Get on to M7 Motorway as soon as you can and it will bring you under Shannon Tunnel and very close to the ground.

FatRat

MfMan wrote: »

No, a good day for common sense. It wasn't even a kick, if one of your players on the field gave such a pathetic imitation of a kick, you'd give him the curly finger immediately. Everytime a player goes to tackle another these days it could nearly be misconstrued as a striking offence.

Games should be refereed within their context; this game wasn't ugly or malicious and the sending off, no matter what way you dress it up, was wrong. Justice, belatedly, has been served.

Laughable. We should all play the game based on "common sense" and throw the rulebook out the window altogether. That would definitely make for a balanced game since everyone's interpretation of "common sense" is the same as yours.

If he could attempt to kick someone in the previous game, then maybe he might follow through in this game and do some damage to a Kerry player. Afterall he seems to have made his intent to do so very clear already.

petronius

while i often think too many games are played in croker (especially when its the dubs) and more regional stadia should get a lash of some cash, fine stadia like port laoise, limerick, navan, semple, dr cullen park, nowlan park..
the magic of an all-ireland semi replay or otherwise is lost if it is not in croker! bad planning by the GAA again