Area Aid Maps and Payments

IsThisOneFree

Hi All

I'm not a farmer, so apologies in advance if I'm not up to speed on everything here. We have a small piece of land which has been rented to a local farmer for about 20 years now. AT some point (I don't know when), the farmer renting the land started claiming REPS/Area Aid payments on the rented land. This was with my Father's knowledge and consent, but my Father passed away some years ago. Both our house and the rented land are on the same folio number.

We're now planning to take a small piece of the rented land to build a new access road. The land in question is approx. one tenth of an acre. And what I'm wondering is:

1. Presumably the farmer who is renting the land will need to submit a new map - where do these maps come from ? Is a land registry map sufficient ? (from reading past threads on here, they seem to be, but just wanted to check that nothing has changed). Or do they need to be drawn up by an Area Aid Advisor (if such a person even exists !!)

2. Is making boundary changes, such as this one, mid-way through the season a big deal for the Area Aid Office/Department of Agriculture ? Goes it involve a cost for the farmer (other than the reduced income from the land being smaller) ?

3. Out of curiosity, would the payment be reduced by much for such a small reduction in area ?

rangler1

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

Hi All

I'm not a farmer, so apologies in advance if I'm not up to speed on everything here. We have a small piece of land which has been rented to a local farmer for about 20 years now. AT some point (I don't know when), the farmer renting the land started claiming REPS/Area Aid payments on the rented land. This was with my Father's knowledge and consent, but my Father passed away some years ago. Both our house and the rented land are on the same folio number.

We're now planning to take a small piece of the rented land to build a new access road. The land in question is approx. one tenth of an acre. And what I'm wondering is:

1. Presumably the farmer who is renting the land will need to submit a new map - where do these maps come from ? Is a land registry map sufficient ? (from reading past threads on here, they seem to be, but just wanted to check that nothing has changed). Or do they need to be drawn up by an Area Aid Advisor (if such a person even exists !!)

2. Is making boundary changes, such as this one, mid-way through the season a big deal for the Area Aid Office/Department of Agriculture ? Goes it involve a cost for the farmer (other than the reduced income from the land being smaller) ?

3. Out of curiosity, would the payment be reduced by much for such a small reduction in area ?

There's no big implication in what you're proposing, he'll get maps from the Dept automatically next year, he just marks out the new road on it and sends it back with his application,
I don't even think he'll get a reduction in his payment because of it as there's changes coming down the line for 2015

IsThisOneFree

Aah ok, interesting. So he doesn't even have to buy the maps then ? What if an inspection were to occur now (before the new maps are sent in), and they find a road where a road was not marked off - would there be penalties etc ? If necessary, we do have legal paperwork to prove that the road was just added this year, plus there was a local planning application to back it up also.

The reason I ask is because, while he's not making a very big deal of this, he does keep going on about the maps and inspections. And as I'm not from a farming background, I'm not in a position to have an educated debate with him on the matter.

Username John

As Rangler said - 2015 is a good year for any changes, as there are changes taking place.

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/publications/2014/CAP2015AnIntroductiontoDirectPayments260314.pdf

Have a read of page 17

In your case, what it means is (As I read it anyways...)
Farmer has 1,000 in SFP
Farmer submits 10 acres for SFP
Payment / acre = €100/acre

In 2015, farmer loses 1/10 acre
Payment is now distributed amongst the acres he declares in 2015
So 1,000 / 9.9 = €101/acre

If you had made this change in any other year, and IF the farmer was using all his acreage for SFP, then he would have lost the 1/10th acre payment.

Like I say - this is how I read it...

rangler1

IsThisOneFree wrote: »

Aah ok, interesting. So he doesn't even have to buy the maps then ? What if an inspection were to occur now (before the new maps are sent in), and they find a road where a road was not marked off - would there be penalties etc ? If necessary, we do have legal paperwork to prove that the road was just added this year, plus there was a local planning application to back it up also.

The reason I ask is because, while he's not making a very big deal of this, he does keep going on about the maps and inspections. And as I'm not from a farming background, I'm not in a position to have an educated debate with him on the matter.

If he wants to be right, he should inform the department that his landlord has made a change since the application and his application is reduced by .04ha......once they're informed he can't be in trouble.....They probably won't even reduce his SFP

just do it

Agree with post above. Of course he's probably ultimately going to look for a reduction in rent. Just make sure you know what that should be before he catches you off guard i.e. 1/10th of your current rate per acre.

Base price

just do it wrote: »

Agree with post above. Of course he's probably ultimately going to look for a reduction in rent. Just make sure you know what that should be before he catches you off guard i.e. 1/10th of your current rate per acre.

Stand corrected but surely not a reduction of 1/10th of the rate per acre. The tenant is only loosing 1/10th of one acre, not 1/10 of all the acreage.
Or am I confusing myself

just do it

Base price wrote: »

Stand corrected but surely not a reduction of 1/10th of the rate per acre. The tenant is only loosing 1/10th of one acre, not 1/10 of all the acreage.
Or am I confusing myself

Yes 1/10th of one acre, unless of course you're my landlord and you're feeling generous

IsThisOneFree

Yea, I've already planned for the reduction in rent .... not feeling particularly generous (not more than one tenth of an acre generous anyway !!) as the piece we're taking does not cut through the land but is at the end of a field, so less inconvenience ... sorry just do it But thanks to everybody for all the replies, much appreciated.

arctictree

Just wondering is there any change to the area aid scheme in 2015? I have no entitlements. Will I get the same area aid payment in 2015?

ABlur

arctictree wrote: »

Just wondering is there any change to the area aid scheme in 2015? I have no entitlements. Will I get the same area aid payment in 2015?

Have a read of the second last page of today's Farmers Journal, Peter Young explains all.

arctictree

ABlur wrote: »

Have a read of the second last page of today's Farmers Journal, Peter Young explains all.

Had a look at that but seems to be no mention of area aid, just SFP on entitlements. Anyone know if I would still get the area aid as I don't think I qualify for entitlements as my first claim was in 2014.

just do it

arctictree wrote: »

Had a look at that but seems to be no mention of area aid, just SFP on entitlements. Anyone know if I would still get the area aid as I don't think I qualify for entitlements as my first claim was in 2014.

You can apply to the national reserve for entitlements if you qualify. There's been plenty in the journal on it in the last few weeks.

arctictree

So is there still area aid in 2015? Sorry, I've looked in the FJ and I've googled but cant seem to find an answer to it...

Connemara Farmer

arctictree wrote: »

So is there still area aid in 2015? Sorry, I've looked in the FJ and I've googled but cant seem to find an answer to it...

Area of Natural Constraint, ANC, is the new name. Unchanged from DAS as far as I am aware.

ABlur

arctictree wrote: »

Had a look at that but seems to be no mention of area aid, just SFP on entitlements. Anyone know if I would still get the area aid as I don't think I qualify for entitlements as my first claim was in 2014.

Area Aid became the Single Payment Scheme (SPS) in 2006, next year it becomes the Basic Payment Scheme. You will need entitlements to claim it if yoy have none the National Reserve us where you apply. Theres also the Disadvantaged area scheme applied for on the same form as SPS. Suggest you google same to see if you are eligible.

arctictree

ABlur wrote: »

Area Aid became the Single Payment Scheme (SPS) in 2006, next year it becomes the Basic Payment Scheme. You will need entitlements to claim it if yoy have none the National Reserve us where you apply. Theres also the Disadvantaged area scheme applied for on the same form as SPS. Suggest you google same to see if you are eligible.

Ah, sorry for the confusion. Its the DAS that I got paid under last year. (my neighbours just call it 'area aid'). I submitted maps and my teagasc advisor sent the form in, even though I had no entitlements.